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Sacrificing Cathodion for a mana ability (Ashnod's Altar, ..

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Anonymous
March 28, 2005 9:17:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello,
as we all know, "A mana ability is either (a) an activated ability that
could put mana into a player's mana pool when it resolves or (b) a triggered
ability that triggers from a mana ability and could produce additional
mana." The examples of the latter are Wild Growth, Rampant Growth,
Heartbeat of Spring/Mana Flare, Vernal Bloom etc.

Now, Cathodion's triggered ability ("When ~ is put into a graveyard from
play, add {3} to your mana pool") looks like a regular triggered ability,
not a mana ability. My question, however, is the following: what if it
triggers *from playing a mana ability*, such as Krark-Clan Ironworks' and
others mentioned in the subject? Does it resolve immediately? For example,
if I want to play an artifact spell costing {5}, can I announce it and then
sac a Cathodion to KCI getting the full {5} at once, or should I first sac,
wait for the triggered ability to resolve and then use the {5} in my mana
pool? The latter gives the opponent a possibility to play instants before I
get to play my artifact - such as Time Stop, which will make me mana burn
for 2, adding injury to insult...

Thanks in advance,
Arkady.
Anonymous
March 28, 2005 9:17:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Arkady Zilberberg wrote:
> Hello,
> as we all know, "A mana ability is either (a) an activated ability
that
> could put mana into a player's mana pool when it resolves or (b) a
triggered
> ability that triggers from a mana ability and could produce
additional
> mana." The examples of the latter are Wild Growth, Rampant Growth,
Oops, my mistake - was thinking about Fertile Ground---^^^^^^^ :( 
> Heartbeat of Spring/Mana Flare, Vernal Bloom etc.
>
March 29, 2005 5:13:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

No it doesn't resolved immediately as it is never a mana ability.

It doesn't trigger on playing a mana ability but on being put into the
graveyard.
You'll have to wait until after the trigger resolves to get the mana
into your pool.
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 9:04:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Arkady Zilberberg <arkadyz1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>as we all know, "A mana ability is either (a) an activated ability that
>could put mana into a player's mana pool when it resolves or (b) a triggered
>ability that triggers from a mana ability and could produce additional
>mana." The examples of the latter are Wild Growth, Rampant Growth,
>Heartbeat of Spring/Mana Flare, Vernal Bloom etc.

Yep. It's slightly different from "Any ability that could produce mana".

>Now, Cathodion's triggered ability ("When ~ is put into a graveyard from
>play, add {3} to your mana pool") looks like a regular triggered ability,
>not a mana ability.

It is not a mana ability, correct.

>My question, however, is the following: what if it
>triggers *from playing a mana ability*, such as Krark-Clan Ironworks' and
>others mentioned in the subject?

The definition doesn't change depending on what is actually happening in the
game. Cathodion doesn't trigger off of a mana ability; its trigger event is
"When ~ is put into a graveyard from play". WHY this happens isn't asked by
the rules; the rules don't look to see if Cathodion went there "due to a mana
ability" or not. They just look to see what Cathodion says.

In other words, whether an ability is a mana ability or not doesn't depend at
all on the game state; it just depends on the wording of the ability. It can't
change, for a given ability.

> Does it resolve immediately?

Nope, because Cathodion's triggered ability is NOT a mana ability. Because
of this, it uses the stack. Regardless of WHY it went to the graveyard.

> For example,
>if I want to play an artifact spell costing {5}, can I announce it and then
>sac a Cathodion to KCI getting the full {5} at once, or should I first sac,
>wait for the triggered ability to resolve and then use the {5} in my mana
>pool? The latter gives the opponent a possibility to play instants before I
>get to play my artifact - such as Time Stop, which will make me mana burn
>for 2, adding injury to insult...

The latter is the actuality; your Cathodion's ability, as well as Carpet of
Flowers' and Carnival of Souls' in the "C" section of Oracle, is not a mana
ability. That doesn't change, regardless of what's going on in the game itself.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
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