Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (
More info?)
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 05:22:48 GMT, MonoJoker <monojoker@bigjobbies.com.au> wrote:
>When you cast an Isochron Scepter at what point is it countered if someone
>casts Counterspell or similar?
While the Scepter artifact spell is on the stack, if it gets countered, it
is countered as the Counterspell resolves. Anything that counters something
does so as the countering thing is resolving. (The only exception is that
the rules can counter a spell or ability, if all its targets have become
illegal; if that happens, this occurs right before the countered spell or
ability can resolve.)
However, I get the distinct feeling that what you typed there is NOT what
you wanted to ask, and that what you wanted to ask was either "Can I counter
the Imprint ability of the Scepter, after the Scepter is in play?" or "How
do you go about countering a copy of a spell made by the Scepter, and/or
countering the activated ability of the Scepter before it resolves and makes
the spell copy?". Let's see...
>I've seen people in local (non-DCI) tournaments play the Sceptre without
>declaring what they're imprinting and sit there waiting to see if the
>opponent counters it or not.
Er, that's perfectly correct. Read the card please: "When Isochron Scepter
_comes into play_, ...". This is a triggered ability. It triggers when the
Scepter COMES INTO PLAY. If the Scepter spell gets countered, it does not
resolve, and never puts the Scepter artifact into play. Conversely, once the
Scepter is in play, it's way too late to try to counter the Scepter spell,
because the Scepter in play is _not a spell any more_; spells only exist on the
stack. Only things that use the stack can get responded to, or countered.
One does not say what is getting Imprinted until the Scepter's triggered
ability resolves. At this time the Scepter has been in play, 'empty', for
some time already, while its CIP triggered ability waited on the stack to
resolve.
The sequence is:
Player announces they are casting the Scepter spell, puts the Scepter card
on the stack from their hand, and pays 2. Nothing else happens here; nothing
else done on announcement is relevant for this artifact spell.
Everyone, the caster first, gets a chance to respond. Only after all responses
are dealt with can the spell resolve.
The artifact spell resolves and puts the Scepter artifact into play; its
Imprint comes-into-play triggered ability triggers.
Its Imprint ability goes on the stack, and waits for responses. Nothing else
happens here; there is no cost on announcement associated with triggered
abilities, this ability has no modes or additional costs, etc.
The Scepter waits, "empty", for the Imprint ability to resolve. If its
activated ability were used in response, nothing would happen on resolution,
since no card is yet imprinted on the Scepter. After any and all responses to
the ability are dealt with, the Imprint ability can now resolve.
The Imprint ability resolves; during its resolution, its controller may remove
an appropriate card in their hand from the game. THIS IS NOT CHOSEN BEFOREHAND
IN ANY WAY; you have NO way to 'wait to see what they try to Imprint, then try
to do something before they can Imprint it' at all.
> Can you counter after the imprint card is declared,
No. Period.
The Scepter spell has been resolved for some time, and the Scepter has been
in play for some time, at this time; it's impossible to retroactively counter
the Scepter spell.
The Scepter Imprint triggered ability is RESOLVING at this time; it's not
possible to counter an ability that is in the process of resolving.
In short: You can't "wait to see what they Imprint, then try to do something
to stop them before they can Imprint it". You can certainly counter the Scepter
spell, but if you do so, you do so long before they ever Imprint the card.
Similarly, you can Stifle the Imprint ability, but if you do so, you have to
do so BEFORE it resolves, and therefore before you see what they want to
remove from their hand. You have no way to interfere WHILE the Imprint ability
is resolving.
>thus both Scepter and intended card go to graveyard or do you have
>to counter the Isochron itself, thus saving the intended imprint card and it
>remains in your hand?
If you wait to see what card gets Imprinted, you lose any chance to counter the
Scepter spell before it puts the Scepter artifact into play in the first place,
and also lose any chance to counter the Scepter triggered ability before it
resolves and lets them Imprint the card. Magic never allows you to "wait to
see what will happen, then try to do something before it can actually happen"
- it's not a game of Slap, where whoever yells first and loudest can interrupt
what the other person is doing.
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram