Come into play VS Put into play

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hi there, i want a confirmation if i get the rules wording right.

Rule is:
G16.25 - Put Into Play
G16.25a - If an effect instructs a player to put an object into play, that
object is not considered "played." [CompRules 2003/07/01]

so does that does not «trigger» the abilities Come into play ???

or does it ?

G3.18 - Comes into Play
a.. G3.18a - A permanent comes into play when the card or token
representing it is moved into the in-play zone. A permanent whose type or
controller changes doesn't "come into play." [CompRules 2003/07/01]
b.. G3.18b - Permanents come into play untapped and under the control of
whoever put them into play. [CompRules 2003/07/01]
c.. G3.18c - When a permanent comes into play, first apply any replacement
effects, then apply continuous effects, then check to determine if the
current form of the permanent generates any triggered abilities.
Example: If an instruction causes something to come into play tapped, it
isn't put into play untapped and then tapped. [CompRules 2003/07/01]
I'm referring to card like exhume,zombify and other for the put into play in
combo with say like hypnox OR eater of days. Whatever the answer is, one of
those will be good !!! ;-)

but after reading the come into play rule, i tend to say that the «come into
play» abilities on card does trigger ... well will see !!

P.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

P. <patrick_laurin@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> Hi there, i want a confirmation if i get the rules wording right.
>
> Rule is:
> G16.25 - Put Into Play
> G16.25a - If an effect instructs a player to put an object into play, that
> object is not considered "played." [CompRules 2003/07/01]
>
> so does that does not «trigger» the abilities Come into play ???
>
> or does it ?
>
> G3.18 - Comes into Play
> a.. G3.18a - A permanent comes into play when the card or token
> representing it is moved into the in-play zone. A permanent whose type or
> controller changes doesn't "come into play." [CompRules 2003/07/01]
> b.. G3.18b - Permanents come into play untapped and under the control of
> whoever put them into play. [CompRules 2003/07/01]
> c.. G3.18c - When a permanent comes into play, first apply any replacement
> effects, then apply continuous effects, then check to determine if the
> current form of the permanent generates any triggered abilities.
> Example: If an instruction causes something to come into play tapped, it
> isn't put into play untapped and then tapped. [CompRules 2003/07/01]
> I'm referring to card like exhume,zombify and other for the put into play in
> combo with say like hypnox OR eater of days. Whatever the answer is, one of
> those will be good !!! ;-)
>
> but after reading the come into play rule, i tend to say that the «come into
> play» abilities on card does trigger ... well will see !!

It does trigger.

Comes into Play
A permanent comes into play when the card or token representing it is
moved into the in-play zone. A permanent whose type or controller
changes doesn't "come into play."
Permanents come into play untapped and under the control of whoever
put them into play.
When a permanent comes into play, first apply any replacement
effects, then apply continuous effects, then check to determine if the
current form of the permanent generates any triggered abilities.
Example: If an instruction causes something to come into play tapped, it
isn't put into play untapped and then tapped.

Put Into Play
If an effect instructs a player to put an object into play, that object
is not considered "played."

That glossary entry says that such an object is not considered "played."
It does NOT say that such an object is not considered "to come into
play."
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Fri, 6 May 2005 21:23:36 -0400, P. <patrick_laurin@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Hi there, i want a confirmation if i get the rules wording right.
>
>Rule is:
>G16.25 - Put Into Play
>G16.25a - If an effect instructs a player to put an object into play, that
>object is not considered "played." [CompRules 2003/07/01]

Right. "Playing" a spell is announcing the spell, it is NOT resolving the
spell. "Playing" an ability is announcing the ability, and "playing" a land
is using your special one-per-turn action in your main phase to lay a land
from your hand. "Put this into play" is NEVER "playing this".

>so does that does not «trigger» the abilities Come into play ???

That is not the intent of the Ruling you cite. Something that is "put into
play" comes into play, and triggers anything appropriate... but it was not
"played" in the process of coming into play - cast as a spell, announced as
an ability, so would NOT trigger anything that said "Whenever you play a Foo,
....", only things that said "Whenever a Foo comes into play, ...".

>I'm referring to card like exhume,zombify and other for the put into play in
>combo with say like hypnox OR eater of days. Whatever the answer is, one of
>those will be good !!! ;-)

Hypnox _triggers_ "When Hypnox comes into play, ..." - that is, any time it
moves from another zone to the in-play zone - but only "if you played it
from your hand" - if you CAST IT AS A SPELL and cast it FROM YOUR HAND. Because
of the condition in its conditional trigger, if you "put it into play" by
any means OTHER than casting it as an ordinary creature spell, it does not
trigger, and does not remove cards.

Eater of Days triggers "When Eater of Days comes into play, ...", and doesn't
have any qualifying conditions attached, so triggers ANY time it comes into
the in-play zone from another zone, whether that's because it was cast as a
creature spell and the spell resolved, putting it into play, or because some
other spell or ability's effect TOLD you to "put it in to play".

Do you see the difference here between the meanings of "played" (== "cast" or
"announced") and "put into play" (== "was not in the in-play zone previously,
but just now changed to being in the in-play zone")?

>but after reading the come into play rule, i tend to say that the «come into
>play» abilities on card does trigger ... well will see !!

Eater of Days' does, however it comes into play. (Note that changing
controllers while IN play already doesn't put anything into play; neither
does something IN play changing what it looks like so that it now looks like
an Eater of Days.) Hypnox's, because of the extra condition, ONLY triggers if
it was cast as a creature spell from your hand, and does not trigger for any
other way it can end up in play.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"David DeLaney" <dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd7oegd.ldt.dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com...
> On Fri, 6 May 2005 21:23:36 -0400, P. <patrick_laurin@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>Hi there, i want a confirmation if i get the rules wording right.
>>
>>Rule is:
>>G16.25 - Put Into Play
>>G16.25a - If an effect instructs a player to put an object into play, that
>>object is not considered "played." [CompRules 2003/07/01]
>
> Right. "Playing" a spell is announcing the spell, it is NOT resolving the
> spell. "Playing" an ability is announcing the ability, and "playing" a
> land
> is using your special one-per-turn action in your main phase to lay a land
> from your hand. "Put this into play" is NEVER "playing this".
>
>>so does that does not «trigger» the abilities Come into play ???
>
> That is not the intent of the Ruling you cite. Something that is "put into
> play" comes into play, and triggers anything appropriate... but it was not
> "played" in the process of coming into play - cast as a spell, announced
> as
> an ability, so would NOT trigger anything that said "Whenever you play a
> Foo,
> ...", only things that said "Whenever a Foo comes into play, ...".
>
>>I'm referring to card like exhume,zombify and other for the put into play
>>in
>>combo with say like hypnox OR eater of days. Whatever the answer is, one
>>of
>>those will be good !!! ;-)
>
> Hypnox _triggers_ "When Hypnox comes into play, ..." - that is, any time
> it
> moves from another zone to the in-play zone - but only "if you played it
> from your hand" - if you CAST IT AS A SPELL and cast it FROM YOUR HAND.
> Because
> of the condition in its conditional trigger, if you "put it into play" by
> any means OTHER than casting it as an ordinary creature spell, it does not
> trigger, and does not remove cards.

well anyway hypnox was a bad example as it was written on the card that the
abilities trigger only if you play from hand.
>
> Eater of Days triggers "When Eater of Days comes into play, ...", and
> doesn't
> have any qualifying conditions attached, so triggers ANY time it comes
> into
> the in-play zone from another zone, whether that's because it was cast as
> a
> creature spell and the spell resolved, putting it into play, or because
> some
> other spell or ability's effect TOLD you to "put it in to play".
>
> Do you see the difference here between the meanings of "played" (== "cast"
> or
> "announced") and "put into play" (== "was not in the in-play zone
> previously,
> but just now changed to being in the in-play zone")?

yes i see, i know that there was a slight difference between the two but did
not remenber what


>>but after reading the come into play rule, i tend to say that the «come
>>into
>>play» abilities on card does trigger ... well will see !!
>
> Eater of Days' does, however it comes into play. (Note that changing
> controllers while IN play already doesn't put anything into play; neither
> does something IN play changing what it looks like so that it now looks
> like
> an Eater of Days.) Hypnox's, because of the extra condition, ONLY triggers
> if
> it was cast as a creature spell from your hand, and does not trigger for
> any
> other way it can end up in play.
>
> Dave

thx for the detailed answer !!

P.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

P. wrote:

> Hi there, i want a confirmation if i get the rules wording right.
>
> Rule is:
> G16.25 - Put Into Play
> G16.25a - If an effect instructs a player to put an object into play, that
> object is not considered "played." [CompRules 2003/07/01]
>
> so does that does not «trigger» the abilities Come into play ???

No, "comes into play" triggered effects will trigger. However, effects that
say "when X is played" will *NOT* trigger.
>
> or does it ?
>
> G3.18 - Comes into Play
> a.. G3.18a - A permanent comes into play when the card or token
> representing it is moved into the in-play zone. A permanent whose type or
> controller changes doesn't "come into play." [CompRules 2003/07/01]
> b.. G3.18b - Permanents come into play untapped and under the control of
> whoever put them into play. [CompRules 2003/07/01]
> c.. G3.18c - When a permanent comes into play, first apply any
> replacement
> effects, then apply continuous effects, then check to determine if the
> current form of the permanent generates any triggered abilities.
> Example: If an instruction causes something to come into play tapped, it
> isn't put into play untapped and then tapped. [CompRules 2003/07/01]
> I'm referring to card like exhume,zombify and other for the put into play
> in combo with say like hypnox OR eater of days. Whatever the answer is,
> one of those will be good !!! ;-)
>
> but after reading the come into play rule, i tend to say that the «come
> into play» abilities on card does trigger ... well will see !!

>
> P.

--
Christopher Mattern

"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"