Two Questions

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello.

First question deals with

Waxmane Baku

2W

Creature - Spirit

2/2

Whenever you play a Spirit or Arcane spell, you may put a ki counter on
Waxmane Baku.

1, Remove X ki counters from Waxmane Baku: Tap X target creatures.

If I play this creature and it comes into play successfully, may I put get a
ki counter on it?


Second question deals with

Warrior en-Kor

WW

Creature - Knight

2/2

0: The next 1 damage that would be dealt to Warrior en-Kor this turn is
dealt to target creature you control instead.

Maddening Imp

2B

Creature - Imp

1/1

Flying

T: Non-Wall creatures the active player controls gain "this creature attacks
if able" until end of turn. At end of turn, destroy each of those creatures
that didn't attack this turn. Play this ability only during an opponent's
turn and only before attackers are declared.



Thrashing Wumpus

3BB

Creature - Beast

3/3

B: Thrashing Wumpus deals 1 damage to each creature and each player.


Suppose player A controls the Warrior en-Kor and the Maddening Imp. Suppose
player B controls the Thrashing Wumpus and 3 untapped swamps.

Player B activates his Thrashing Wumpus once. In response Player activates
his Warrior en-Kor 3 times targeting the Maddening Imp. After letting
everthing everything resolve until the stack is empty, what happens if
Player B then activates his Thrashing Wumpus another 2 times. Do those two
unused "redirection shields" save the Warrior en-Kor or do they get
countered because the target, the Maddening Imp is no longer valid?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Jimmy Wong <j4389130@telus.net> wrote:

> Hello.
>
> First question deals with
>
> Waxmane Baku
>
> 2W
>
> Creature - Spirit
>
> 2/2
>
> Whenever you play a Spirit or Arcane spell, you may put a ki counter on
> Waxmane Baku.
>
> 1, Remove X ki counters from Waxmane Baku: Tap X target creatures.
>
> If I play this creature and it comes into play successfully, may I put get a
> ki counter on it?

No.

402.8. Abilities function only while the permanent with the ability is
in play unless the ability is a characteristic-setting ability that sets
type or color, an ability of an instant or sorcery, an additional cost,
an alternative cost, or a play restriction. Abilities can also function
in other zones if they state otherwise or if the ability can only
trigger or be played in a zone other than the in-play zone. An ability
whose cost or effect specifies that it moves the object it's on out of a
particular zone functions only in that zone.
Example: An ability with a cost that includes "Discard this card" can be
played only if the card is in your hand.

Here is some detailed timing:

1. You get priority and play Waxmane Baku, putting it on the stack. You
pay the cost of 2W using mana obtained in an unspecified way.
2. You get priority and pass.
3. Opponent gets priority and passes.
4. The top object on the stack (the spell played in step 1) resolves.
You put Waxmane Baku into play.
5. You get priority ....

The Waxmane Baku wasn't in play in step 1, so its triggered ability
wasn't active. When it finally did come into play in step 4, it didn't
look back in time to see whether the trigger event happened at some
earlier time (e.g., step 1).

> Second question deals with
>
> Warrior en-Kor
>
> WW
>
> Creature - Knight
>
> 2/2
>
> 0: The next 1 damage that would be dealt to Warrior en-Kor this turn is
> dealt to target creature you control instead.
>
> Maddening Imp
>
> 2B
>
> Creature - Imp
>
> 1/1
>
> Flying
>
> T: Non-Wall creatures the active player controls gain "this creature attacks
> if able" until end of turn. At end of turn, destroy each of those creatures
> that didn't attack this turn. Play this ability only during an opponent's
> turn and only before attackers are declared.
>
>
>
> Thrashing Wumpus
>
> 3BB
>
> Creature - Beast
>
> 3/3
>
> B: Thrashing Wumpus deals 1 damage to each creature and each player.
>
>
> Suppose player A controls the Warrior en-Kor and the Maddening Imp. Suppose
> player B controls the Thrashing Wumpus and 3 untapped swamps.
>
> Player B activates his Thrashing Wumpus once. In response Player activates
> his Warrior en-Kor 3 times targeting the Maddening Imp. After letting
> everthing everything resolve until the stack is empty, what happens if
> Player B then activates his Thrashing Wumpus another 2 times. Do those two
> unused "redirection shields" save the Warrior en-Kor or do they get
> countered because the target, the Maddening Imp is no longer valid?

Spells, activated abilities, and triggered abilities can be countered.
A replacement effect generated by something (e.g., an activated ability)
that has already resolved can not be countered. But in this case, it
does nothing.

419.6c Some effects replace damage dealt to one creature or player with
the same damage dealt to another creature or player; such effects are
called "redirection" effects. If either creature is no longer in play or
is no longer a creature when the damage would be redirected, the effect
does nothing.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Tue, 10 May 2005 03:30:19 GMT, Jimmy Wong <j4389130@telus.net> wrote:
>First question deals with
>
>Waxmane Baku

Waxmane Baku 2W Creature - Spirit
2/2 Whenever you play a Spirit or Arcane spell, you may put a ki counter on ~.
/ 1,Remove X ki counters from ~: Tap X target creatures.

>If I play this creature and it comes into play successfully, may I put get a
>ki counter on it?

Nope. It was not in play, in any sense at all, when you played (announced)
this Spirit spell; it was in your hand and moved to the stack. It has to be
IN the in-play zone at the time you play (announce) a Spirit or Arcane spell,
or else it has no way to trigger. Thus it can NEVER trigger off its own
playing as a spell.

>Second question deals with
>
>Warrior en-Kor

Warrior en-Kor WW Creature - Knight
2/2 0: The next 1 damage that would be dealt to ~ this turn is dealt to target
creature you control instead.

Someone was looking through the W section of Oracle, I presume?

>Maddening Imp

Maddening Imp 2B Creature - Imp
1/1 Flying Tap: Non-Wall creatures the active player controls gain "This
creature attacks if able." until end of turn. At end of turn, destroy each of
those creatures that didn't attack this turn. Play this ability only during an
opponent's turn and only before attackers are declared.

Okay, maybe not. (Wizards hasn't printed cards with this sort of ability in
some time now, mainly because players get all confused about them.)

>Thrashing Wumpus

Thrashing Wumpus 3BB Creature - Beast
3/3 B: ~ deals 1 damage to each creature and each player.

Not sure how these will fit together into a question...

>Suppose player A controls the Warrior en-Kor and the Maddening Imp. Suppose
>player B controls the Thrashing Wumpus and 3 untapped swamps.

Okay. Then the swamps can be tapped for B each, enabling player B (not mana B)
to use the Wumpus' ability up to three times. A doesn't control the Wumpus, so
can't use it as a target for the en-Kor ability, but could certainly make
three, or a dozen, or umpty-nine, shields with the en-Kor's ability, targetting
the Imp each time.

However, since there's no way to have the Wumpus deal MORE than 1 damage at a
time to any given creature (it doesn't say "X: ~ deals X damage to each
creature and each player. Spend only black mana this way.", so each resolution
of its ability deals just 1 damage to each creature and player), the first time
one of the Wumpus abilities resolves with such a shield in effect, the 1
damage redirected from the en-Kor to the Imp (along with the simultaneous 1
damage directly to the Imp) will kill off the Imp, making the rest of those
shields useless.

If a redirection shield says to deal the damage "there" instead of "here", and
EITHER "here" or "there" is no longer a player or creature, then the shield
doesn't do anything at all and the damage tries to get dealt "here", not
"there".

>Player B activates his Thrashing Wumpus once. In response Player activates
>his Warrior en-Kor 3 times targeting the Maddening Imp. After letting
>everthing everything resolve until the stack is empty,

the Imp will be dead, having taken 2 damage total from the Wumpus' ability, and
the en-Kor will be alive, having taken no damage.

>what happens if
>Player B then activates his Thrashing Wumpus another 2 times. Do those two
>unused "redirection shields" save the Warrior en-Kor or do they get
>countered because the target, the Maddening Imp is no longer valid?

Neither. They do not 'get countered', because they are not something on the
stack; the en-Kor abilites _resolved_ already, and made the shields. The
shields themselves are not targetted at all; they just affect damage that
would have gotten dealt to the en-Kor, and try to deal it to the Imp instead.
They also do not "save" the en-Kor, because since the Imp is no longer there,
they cannot do anything; in particular, they cannot "move the damage to
somewhere that's not there any more, making it not get dealt to the Imp". The
shields Do Nothing; the en-Kor takes 1 damage from the first of these two
abilities to resolve, then another 1 from the second, and dies; the Wumpus
takes 2 damage, 1 from each ability, which combined with the earlier 1 damage
this turn means IT dies; and players A and B also take a further 2 damage.

End result: all three creatures are dead; A and B have each taken 3 damage,
and their life totals are both 3 lower than when they started.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.