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Does redirected damage go back on the stack? - pariah / cr..

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June 3, 2005 9:11:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

In my ongoing quest to understand crown of the ages:

My opponent has 20/20, 21/21 and 22/22 creatures.
I have plenty of mana, a crown of ages in play and a pariah in hand.
I enchant the 22/22 creature and pass.

My opponent attacks with all three creatures, the 63 damage is
redirected by the pariah to the 22/22 monster.

Do I have an opportunity to move the pariah with the crown of ages at
this point?

Thanks.

Phil.
Anonymous
June 4, 2005 2:03:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Since I actually read the Subject: header first this time: the answer is
"NO". "Redirecting" damage is a replacement effect, and replacement effects
do NOT use the stack in any way when they are applied.

phil@ideastakingshape.co.uk <phil@ideastakingshape.co.uk> wrote:
>In my ongoing quest to understand crown of the ages:

Crown of the Ages? Oh, in conjunction with Pariah. The creature that Pariah
is ON as damage tries to be dealt to you is the creature that the damage
tries to get dealt to instead. Since you can't possibly be dealing damage
to anyone -as- the Crown's ability is resolving - there's no way to do this -
the Pariah will be firmly on one creature as any damage resolves that's trying
to be dealt to you, and the damage will instead be dealt to the creature. The
damage cannot and does not 'get put back on the stack'; for one thing, only
COMBAT damage goes on the stack at all. All other damage is created on the
spot during the resolution of some spell or ability, and dealt right then.
Only combat damage is "first assigned, then waits on the stack, then resolves
and is dealt".

>My opponent has 20/20, 21/21 and 22/22 creatures.
>I have plenty of mana, a crown of ages in play and a pariah in hand.
>I enchant the 22/22 creature and pass.

You can't have the Pariah on each of the three creatures at the time
combat damage is dealt to you; none of them have first strike, so all their
combat damage will be dealt to you simultaneously.

However, since it's all being dealt simultaneously, the Pariah _will_ cause
all 63 of the combat damage that tries to be dealt to you to get instead
dealt to whatever creature it's on. Lethally damaging that creature, in
this case, and causing it to go to the graveyard through a state-based
effect, and the Pariah to do so immediately after that through another
state-based effect, before anything else can be done.

>My opponent attacks with all three creatures, the 63 damage is
>redirected by the pariah to the 22/22 monster.
>
>Do I have an opportunity to move the pariah with the crown of ages at
>this point?

No. The Pariah's "redirection" is a +replacement+ effect, so isn't applied
until just before the combat damage is about to get dealt; it's applied WHILE
combat damage is resolving. Nobody has priority at that time, so the Crown
can't have its ability played then, and can't have its ability RESOLVE then
either. Then, after the damage is dealt, before opponent CAN get priority,
you _must_ do the state-based effects check; this destroys the creature,
and causes another state-based effects check, which puts the Pariah into
your graveyard and causes another state-based effects check, which finds
nothing applicable to do. Then triggered abilities go onto the stack... and
_now_ opponent has priority, since it is their turn (since they attacked).
Note that even now YOU don't have priority; you won't get it until
opponent actually passes.

You can move the Pariah just fine -before- combat damage resolves and gets
dealt; the Crown can be used in response to the combat damage perfectly well.
But if you do, the Pariah will redirect all 63 damage to whatever creature
it IS on as combat damage resolves, and (since you didn't say anything
about "regenerate it" or "indestructible") this will kill -that- creature and
cause the Pariah to go to the graveyard, before anything else can be done by
any player.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Anonymous
June 4, 2005 2:04:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

<phil@ideastakingshape.co.uk> wrote:

> In my ongoing quest to understand crown of the ages:
>
> My opponent has 20/20, 21/21 and 22/22 creatures.
> I have plenty of mana, a crown of ages in play and a pariah in hand.
> I enchant the 22/22 creature and pass.
>
> My opponent attacks with all three creatures, the 63 damage is
> redirected by the pariah to the 22/22 monster.
>
> Do I have an opportunity to move the pariah with the crown of ages at
> this point?

No. Replacement effects simply modify the relevant event.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W
!