Jitte

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Hi,

Feb 1, 2005 - If the Jitte leaves play after the "+2/+2" mode is announced but before it resolves, the bonus is given to the creature that was most recently equipped once the ability resolves.

Is this also true if Jitte wasn't equiped to any creature when it left play?

Umezawas Jitte
2
Legendary Artifact Equipment
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage, put two charge counters
on Umezawas Jitte.
Remove a charge counter from Umezawas Jitte: Choose one Equipped creature
gets +2/+2 until end of turn; or target creature gets -1/-1 until end of
turn; or you gain 2 life.
Equip 2

--
David

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

David de Kloet <dskloet@few.vu.nl> sent:
> Hi,

> Feb 1, 2005 - If the Jitte leaves play after the "+2/+2" mode is announced but before it resolves, the bonus is given to the creature that was most recently equipped once the ability resolves.

> Is this also true if Jitte wasn't equiped to any creature when it left play?

Nope. The thing that always happens is that a resolving spell or
ability, if it needs information from something that moved, will
usually use the last known information about that something. In this
case, the information requested is, 'What creature is the Jitte that I
came from attached to?' If the Jitte left play in response, and it was
attached to something at the time it left play, then that creature will
get the bonus. If the Jitte left play in response, and it wasn't
attached to anything, then nothing will get a bonus.

--
-- zoe

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

David de Kloet <dskloet@few.vu.nl> wrote:
>Feb 1, 2005 - If the Jitte leaves play after the "+2/+2" mode is announced but
>before it resolves, the bonus is given to the creature that was most recently
> equipped once the ability resolves.
>
>Is this also true if Jitte wasn't equiped to any creature when it left play?

No. "Last known information" is what is being used here, since the Jitte is
leaving play ... and if the last known information about the Jitte when it was
in play is "it wasn't attached to anything", then no creature gets the +2/+2,
just like the case where it IS in play, not attached to anything, on
resolution. Only if the Jitte was attached to a creature as it left play
can the last-known information say "it was attached to creature Q".

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Zoe Stephenson wrote:

> David de Kloet <dskloet@few.vu.nl> sent:
> > Hi,
>
> > Feb 1, 2005 - If the Jitte leaves play after the "+2/+2" mode is
> > announced but before it resolves, the bonus is given to the creature
> > that was most recently equipped once the ability resolves.
>
> > Is this also true if Jitte wasn't equiped to any creature when it left play?
>
> Nope. The thing that always happens is that a resolving spell or
> ability, if it needs information from something that moved, will
> usually use the last known information about that something. In this
> case, the information requested is, 'What creature is the Jitte that I
> came from attached to?' If the Jitte left play in response, and it was
> attached to something at the time it left play, then that creature will
> get the bonus. If the Jitte left play in response, and it wasn't
> attached to anything, then nothing will get a bonus.

I thought so. But that means the ruling is wrong.

--
David

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

David DeLaney <dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> sent:
> David de Kloet <dskloet@few.vu.nl> wrote:
>>Feb 1, 2005 - If the Jitte leaves play after the "+2/+2" mode is announced but
>>before it resolves, the bonus is given to the creature that was most recently
>> equipped once the ability resolves.
>>
>>Is this also true if Jitte wasn't equiped to any creature when it left play?

> No. "Last known information" is what is being used here, since the Jitte is
> leaving play ... and if the last known information about the Jitte when it was
> in play is "it wasn't attached to anything", then no creature gets the +2/+2,
> just like the case where it IS in play, not attached to anything, on
> resolution. Only if the Jitte was attached to a creature as it left play
> can the last-known information say "it was attached to creature Q".

....and as dskloet rightly points out, that's not quite what the note on
the Jitte actually says. It only refers to the most recently equipped
creature, it doesn't mention that it had to have been equipped at the
point the Jitte left play. It also doesn't explicitly mention that it's
the creature most recently equipped by the Jitte...

--
-- zoe

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Zoe Stephenson <zrs1@uk.ac.york.reversed> wrote:
>David DeLaney <dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> sent:
>> David de Kloet <dskloet@few.vu.nl> wrote:
>>>Feb 1, 2005 - If the Jitte leaves play after the "+2/+2" mode is announced but
>>>before it resolves, the bonus is given to the creature that was most recently
>>> equipped once the ability resolves.
>>>
>>>Is this also true if Jitte wasn't equiped to any creature when it left play?
>
>> No. "Last known information" is what is being used here, since the Jitte is
>> leaving play ... and if the last known information about the Jitte when it was
>> in play is "it wasn't attached to anything", then no creature gets the +2/+2,
>> just like the case where it IS in play, not attached to anything, on
>> resolution. Only if the Jitte was attached to a creature as it left play
>> can the last-known information say "it was attached to creature Q".
>
>...and as dskloet rightly points out, that's not quite what the note on
>the Jitte actually says. It only refers to the most recently equipped
>creature, it doesn't mention that it had to have been equipped at the
>point the Jitte left play. It also doesn't explicitly mention that it's
>the creature most recently equipped by the Jitte...

Well, okay, yeah. We can pass this along to John for tweaking (or, really,
anyone can, using the address in Saturday School, I think).

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Zoe Stephenson schrieb:

>>David de Kloet <dskloet@few.vu.nl> wrote:
>>
>>>Feb 1, 2005 - If the Jitte leaves play after the "+2/+2" mode is announced but
>>>before it resolves, the bonus is given to the creature that was most recently
>>>equipped once the ability resolves.
>>>
>>>Is this also true if Jitte wasn't equiped to any creature when it left play?


> It only refers to the most recently equipped
> creature, it doesn't mention that it had to have been equipped at the
> point the Jitte left play. It also doesn't explicitly mention that it's
> the creature most recently equipped by the Jitte...
>

This might be true, but if you take a closer look at the Jitte's
wording, you'll find "_Equipped_ Creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn."
So the Jitte has to be equipped to a creature and can only give the
+2/+2 bonus to that creature it is equipped to.

So I think what the ruling wants to make clear is a situation like this:

Player A has (e.g.) some Llanowar Elves equipped with the Jitte and
announces to use the Jitte's ability to give the Elves +2/+2.
Player B then uses something like a Disenchant targeting the Jitte.
So when the Jitte's +2/+2 ability resolves it is no longer in play, but
the bonus will be given to the Elves.

If the Jitte hadn't been equipped to a creature, it would have been
impossible to use the ability at all, wouldn't it?


Thomas

Umezawas Jitte
2
Legendary Artifact Equipment
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage, put two charge counters
on Umezawas Jitte.
Remove a charge counter from Umezawas Jitte: Choose one - Equipped
creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn; or target creature gets -1/-1
until end of turn; or you gain 2 life.
Equip 2

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Thomas Wagner <onkelgandalf.no.spam@please.herr-der-mails.de> sent:
> Zoe Stephenson schrieb:

>>>David de Kloet <dskloet@few.vu.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Feb 1, 2005 - If the Jitte leaves play after the "+2/+2" mode is announced but
>>>>before it resolves, the bonus is given to the creature that was most recently
>>>>equipped once the ability resolves.
>>>>
>>>>Is this also true if Jitte wasn't equiped to any creature when it left play?


>> It only refers to the most recently equipped
>> creature, it doesn't mention that it had to have been equipped at the
>> point the Jitte left play. It also doesn't explicitly mention that it's
>> the creature most recently equipped by the Jitte...
>>

> This might be true, but if you take a closer look at the Jitte's
> wording, you'll find "_Equipped_ Creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn."
> So the Jitte has to be equipped to a creature and can only give the
> +2/+2 bonus to that creature it is equipped to.

I know, I know, I'm being pedantic and literal in interpreting exactly
what the clarification says, rather than what I'm fairly certain it's
trying to say.

> So I think what the ruling wants to make clear is a situation like this:

> Player A has (e.g.) some Llanowar Elves equipped with the Jitte and
> announces to use the Jitte's ability to give the Elves +2/+2.
> Player B then uses something like a Disenchant targeting the Jitte.
> So when the Jitte's +2/+2 ability resolves it is no longer in play, but
> the bonus will be given to the Elves.

That's what I understand as the point it's trying to clarify, yes.

> If the Jitte hadn't been equipped to a creature, it would have been
> impossible to use the ability at all, wouldn't it?

Au contraire, it would be perfectly possible to announce the ability
with that mode, even if not equipped to any creature. On resolution,
it looks for the creature equipped by the Jitte it came from, finds
none, and has nothing to give the +2/+2 to. It does Nothing Visible,
in other words.

--
-- zoe

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Thomas Wagner <onkelgandalf.no.spam@please.herr-der-mails.de> wrote:
>If the Jitte hadn't been equipped to a creature, it would have been
>impossible to use the ability at all, wouldn't it?

What makes you say that?

>Remove a charge counter from Umezawas Jitte: Choose one - Equipped
>creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn; or target creature gets -1/-1
>until end of turn; or you gain 2 life.

This doesn't have any restriction saying "Play this ability only if UJ is
equipped to a creature", nor does it have one saying "Choose the first mode
only if UJ is equipped to a creature". Nothing stops you from paying the
cost if there's no creature it's attached to; there's no target for the first
mode, so all you do on announcement is choose mode then pay costs. On
resolution it finds it can't do what it's trying to do for its effect, so
Does Nothing. But nothing stops you from announcing the ability.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Zoe Stephenson schrieb:


>
> I know, I know, I'm being pedantic and literal in interpreting exactly
> what the clarification says, rather than what I'm fairly certain it's
> trying to say.
>

Ok, misunderstanding there.


>>If the Jitte hadn't been equipped to a creature, it would have been
>>impossible to use the ability at all, wouldn't it?
>
>
> Au contraire, it would be perfectly possible to announce the ability
> with that mode, even if not equipped to any creature. On resolution,
> it looks for the creature equipped by the Jitte it came from, finds
> none, and has nothing to give the +2/+2 to. It does Nothing Visible,
> in other words.
>

Oh yes you are right, i did not look at it from that point of view.
The reason why this works is that the ability is not targeted, right?


Thomas

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Thomas Wagner <onkelgandalf.no.spam@please.herr-der-mails.de> sent:
> Zoe Stephenson schrieb:


>>
>> I know, I know, I'm being pedantic and literal in interpreting exactly
>> what the clarification says, rather than what I'm fairly certain it's
>> trying to say.
>>

> Ok, misunderstanding there.


>>>If the Jitte hadn't been equipped to a creature, it would have been
>>>impossible to use the ability at all, wouldn't it?
>>
>>
>> Au contraire, it would be perfectly possible to announce the ability
>> with that mode, even if not equipped to any creature. On resolution,
>> it looks for the creature equipped by the Jitte it came from, finds
>> none, and has nothing to give the +2/+2 to. It does Nothing Visible,
>> in other words.
>>

> Oh yes you are right, i did not look at it from that point of view.
> The reason why this works is that the ability is not targeted, right?

Mostly, yes. There's a number of things you have to do to get an
activated ability onto the stack - choose payment, choose mode, choose
X, choose targets, assign targets, gather mana, pay costs... if any
of those doesn't work, then you can't play the ability. The most
obvious of these is choosing legal targets, but you might also find
that you thought you could pay the cost and are actually unable to.

When you play the ability of the Jitte in its +2/+2 mode, you end
up with no other choices to make during announcement. It only
checks on resolution to find out where to apply the +2/+2 bonus.

--
-- zoe