Plow Under Question

[Dave]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hi all,

In a game last night, a player cast Plow Under targeting an
opponent's Plains and Island. The question came up as to who
gets to decide what order the lands go in on top of the library.
In this case, the Plains was more important to the opponent, so
he wanted that to go on the library last, but the caster wanted
it to go on first, so it would be drawn second.

So who gets to decide what order the lands are put on top of the
library: the caster of Plow Under or the owner of the lands that
are being targeted?

Plow Under {3}{G}{G}
Sorcery
Put two target lands on top of their owner's library.

Thanks!

- Dave
Magic: The Gathering card singles
http://www.destinationmtg.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

In news:go6dnQDcF9h74lPfRVn-iA@giganews.com,
Dave <im@not.telling> rambled:
>
> Hi all,
>
> In a game last night, a player cast Plow Under targeting an
> opponent's Plains and Island. The question came up as to who
> gets to decide what order the lands go in on top of the library.
> In this case, the Plains was more important to the opponent, so
> he wanted that to go on the library last, but the caster wanted
> it to go on first, so it would be drawn second.
>
> So who gets to decide what order the lands are put on top of the
> library: the caster of Plow Under or the owner of the lands that
> are being targeted?
>
> Plow Under {3}{G}{G}
> Sorcery
> Put two target lands on top of their owner's library.

The person "being plowed" gets to decide the order. That is, the person who
controls the land. If Plow Under said "Put two target lands on top of their
owner's library in any order", that would leave the order up to the player
who cast Plow Under. But it mentions nothing about order, so if a player
would put multiple lands on top of his/her library, he/she can do it any way
he/she sees fit.

--
KB

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"Dave" <im@not.telling> writes:
> So who gets to decide what order the lands are put on top of the
> library: the caster of Plow Under or the owner of the lands that
> are being targeted?

The owner.

,----[ Magic Comp. Rules <http://www.wizards.com/magic/comprules> ]
| 217.2d If an effect puts two or more cards on the top or bottom of a
| library at the same time, the owner of those cards may arrange
| them in any order. That library's owner doesn't reveal the order
| in which the cards go into his or her library.
`----

Please feel free to post again if you have any more questions.

--
Peter C.
"And in a radical policy change, God today announced that he *will*,
in fact, play dice with the universe."
-- tnt

 

[Dave]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"Peter Cooper Jr." <pete+mtg@cooperjr.name> wrote in message
news:86irzla04l.fsf@pcpc.cooperjr.name...
> "Dave" <im@not.telling> writes:
>> So who gets to decide what order the lands are put on top of the
>> library: the caster of Plow Under or the owner of the lands that
>> are being targeted?
>
> The owner.
>
> ,----[ Magic Comp. Rules <http://www.wizards.com/magic/comprules> ]
> | 217.2d If an effect puts two or more cards on the top or bottom of a
> | library at the same time, the owner of those cards may arrange
> | them in any order. That library's owner doesn't reveal the order
> | in which the cards go into his or her library.
> `----
>
> Please feel free to post again if you have any more questions.


Thanks for the quick answers everyone!

- Dave
Magic: The Gathering card singles
http://www.destinationmtg.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 08:30:14 -0500, Dave <im@not.telling> wrote:
>In a game last night, a player cast Plow Under targeting an
>opponent's Plains and Island. The question came up as to who
>gets to decide what order the lands go in on top of the library.

Rulebook says (217.2d) the owner of the cards decides, since they are going
there at the same time.

>In this case, the Plains was more important to the opponent, so
>he wanted that to go on the library last, but the caster wanted
>it to go on first, so it would be drawn second.
>
>So who gets to decide what order the lands are put on top of the
>library: the caster of Plow Under or the owner of the lands that
>are being targeted?

The owner of the lands that are being put on top of the same library at the
same time (which is subtly different from either of your answers; consider the
case when one of the two lands was stolen from player C...).

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Briscobar <youcant@sendmespam.com> wrote:
>Dave <im@not.telling> rambled:
>> So who gets to decide what order the lands are put on top of the
>> library: the caster of Plow Under or the owner of the lands that
>> are being targeted?
>
>The person "being plowed" gets to decide the order. That is, the person who
>controls the land.

Nope. Rulebook says otherwise.

>If Plow Under said "Put two target lands on top of their
>owner's library in any order", that would leave the order up to the player
>who cast Plow Under.

Yes, since the card would override the rule in that case.

>But it mentions nothing about order, so if a player
>would put multiple lands on top of his/her library, he/she can do it any way
>he/she sees fit.

Yes - but this isn't what you said above. The _owner_ of the lands decides
their order - the player whose library they are being put onto. Not the
controller of the lands - the player whose portion of the in-play area they
happen to be in.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"David DeLaney" <dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote in message
news:slrndcuelf.7ri.dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com...
> Briscobar <youcant@sendmespam.com> wrote:
>>Dave <im@not.telling> rambled:
>>> So who gets to decide what order the lands are put on top of the
>>> library: the caster of Plow Under or the owner of the lands that
>>> are being targeted?
>>
>>The person "being plowed" gets to decide the order. That is, the person
>>who
>>controls the land.
>
> Nope. Rulebook says otherwise.
>
>>If Plow Under said "Put two target lands on top of their
>>owner's library in any order", that would leave the order up to the player
>>who cast Plow Under.
>
> Yes, since the card would override the rule in that case.
>
>>But it mentions nothing about order, so if a player
>>would put multiple lands on top of his/her library, he/she can do it any
>>way
>>he/she sees fit.
>
> Yes - but this isn't what you said above. The _owner_ of the lands decides
> their order - the player whose library they are being put onto. Not the
> controller of the lands - the player whose portion of the in-play area
> they
> happen to be in.

This is important for odd cards like Annex, Confiscate, Eternal Dominion or
Shifting Borders. Most of the time, yes, the controller and the owner of the
lands are the same person, but it's easily conceivable to build a deck where
you keep stealing an opponent's lands - especially if you use Plow Under in
combination. We'll save how to build such a deck (maybe) for .strategy

Erich