Minamo's Meddling vs. Twincasted spliced spell

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello!

I wonder what happens in the following situation:

1. Player A plays some Arcane spell splicing other spell(s) onto it.
2. Player B plays Twincast (Twincast / UU / Instant / Copy target
instant or sorcery spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.)
targeting the Arcane spell played in step 1.
3. Twincast resolves, creating a copy of the Arcane spell from step 1.
4. Player A plays Minamo's Meddling (Minamo's Meddling / 2UU /
Instant / Counter target spell. That spell's controller reveals his
or her hand, then discards each card with the same name as a card
spliced onto that spell.), targeting the copy created by Twincast in
step 3.
5. As Minamo's Meddling resolves, player B reveals his or her hand,
which happen to have spell(s) with the same name(s) as the one(s)
spliced onto the original Arcane spell from step 1.

The question (obviously) is:
Does player B discard the cards with the same names as the ones spliced
by player A?

My guess is yes - even though splice is not mentioned in the following
rule, it is still a choice made when playing a spell:
503.2. When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of
the original object's characteristics (name, mana cost, color, type,
supertype, subtype, expansion symbol, rules text, power, and toughness)
and, for an object on the stack, choices made when playing it (mode,
targets, the value of X, whether a kicker cost was paid, how it will
affect multiple targets, and so on).

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On 13 Jul 2005 12:30:23 -0700, Zarin <arkadyz1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I wonder what happens in the following situation:

All die; oh, the embarrassment. ...No, wait, I'd better actually read the
question...

>1. Player A plays some Arcane spell splicing other spell(s) onto it.

Okay.

>2. Player B plays Twincast (Twincast / UU / Instant / Copy target
>instant or sorcery spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.)
>targeting the Arcane spell played in step 1.
>3. Twincast resolves, creating a copy of the Arcane spell from step 1.

The copy has the spliced text as well; Splice is defined to _copy_ the text
box from the card onto the spell, and copy effects copy the effects of other
copy effects.

>4. Player A plays Minamo's Meddling (Minamo's Meddling / 2UU /
>Instant / Counter target spell. That spell's controller reveals his
>or her hand, then discards each card with the same name as a card
>spliced onto that spell.), targeting the copy created by Twincast in
>step 3.

Okay. This should look at the copy of the spell, and see that it's got
one or more additional text boxes copied onto the text, and make B discard
any cards in B's hand whose names match the names of cards spliced onto
that spell. (Note that B controls the Twincast copy because B was told to
put it onto the stack by Twincast.) B is not guaranteed to have ANY matching
cards in hand, since A was the one who spliced the cards onto the original
spell...

>5. As Minamo's Meddling resolves, player B reveals his or her hand,
>which happen to have spell(s) with the same name(s) as the one(s)
>spliced onto the original Arcane spell from step 1.

Oops. Discard happens. (And "happens to have card(s) with the same..." - there
are no 'spells' in anyone's hand, just spell cards. Spells only exist on the
stack...)

>The question (obviously) is:
>Does player B discard the cards with the same names as the ones spliced
>by player A?

Yep.

>My guess is yes - even though splice is not mentioned in the following
>rule, it is still a choice made when playing a spell:
>503.2. When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of
>the original object's characteristics (name, mana cost, color, type,
>supertype, subtype, expansion symbol, rules text, power, and toughness)
>and, for an object on the stack, choices made when playing it (mode,
>targets, the value of X, whether a kicker cost was paid, how it will
>affect multiple targets, and so on).

Look closer: it does - "rules text". 502.40a copies the text box from the
Splice card onto the Spliced-onto spell; the text box includes rules text.
(It also includes flavor text and reminder text but those are irrelevant.)
If something then makes a copy of the spell, the copy gets the additional
text boxes too.

Note that Minamo's Meddling does NOT ask what the name of the -spell- is.
It asks what the names of the cards spliced onto the spell are, and looks
at the spell to determine that. Since the names of the Spliced-on cards are
NOT anywhere on the spell - just their text boxes are - it MUST be determining
the names from the additional text boxes (and/or asking the game "What cards
got Spliced on here to make these text boxes?"). Either way, it can do the
same thing with a copy of the spell: if it's checking the text boxes and
backtracking through Oracle to card names, it can do that with the copied
text boxes just fine; if it's asking the game about the cards involved, well,
the game still knows which cards were involved.

Dave
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