when does a creature actually "deal damage"?

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Kevin <ktneely@no.spam.astroturfgarden.com> wrote:

> Hi there. I am trying to figure out exactly when a creature deals damage.
> Does a creature deal the damage when damage is placed on the stack, or when
> the damage is applied to the receiving creature or player?

Simple answer: It happens when it happens.

Since your later example makes it clear that you are asking about
*combat* damage, that is dealt when it resolves. No sooner.

310.4. Combat damage resolves as an object on the stack. When it
resolves, it's all dealt at once, as originally assigned. After combat
damage finishes resolving, the active player gets priority.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Kevin <ktneely@no.spam.astroturfgarden.com> wrote:
>Hi there. I am trying to figure out exactly when a creature deals damage.

Okay. Are you talking about combat damage? Then it's dealt as combat damage
resolves off the stack. Are you talking about damage from some spell or
ability that says the creature deals damage? Then it's dealt as that spell
or ability is resolving.

>Does a creature deal the damage when damage is placed on the stack,

No, no no. What would be the use of using the stack at all in that case?
What would be left to do on resolution, and how could responses try to
prevent the damage if it had already been dealt?

>or when the damage is applied to the receiving creature or player?

I believe you appear to be talking about combat damage here, though you
haven't specified. Combat damage is -assigned- as combat damage goes ONTO
the stack, which is as combat-damage step is starting. Combat damage gets
_dealt_ as it resolves OFF the stack, which will be some time during that
same step.

>My example scenario is the following:
>
>I have a creature equipped with an Umezawa's Jitte that is attacking. Let's
>say it's a Grizzly Bear. My opponent blocks with a Grizzly Bear and we place
>damage on the stack. My opponent then casts Otherworldly Journey upon his
>Bear and it is removed from the game.

Okay, in response to the combat damage. Later the combat damage resolves;
the damage FROM the Bear gets dealt to the attacking creature. The damage
from the -attacker- does not get dealt at all, because the creature it got
assigned to isn't in play any more.

>Is the damage "dealt" (and thus the jitte receives its 2 counters) when the
>damage is placed upon the stack, or is it "dealt" when the opposing player or
>creature actually receives the damage.

In this case only the damage from the Bear is dealt at all; the damage from
the Jitte-equipped attacker doesn't get dealt, because you can't deal damage
to something that's not there. The damage all got _assigned_ when combat
damage got put onto the stack; it waits to get dealt until combat damage
resolves. So unless your Jitte-equipped attacker has Trample AND was able
to legally assign some of its combat damage to defending player, that
attacker isn't going to deal any combat damage, and the Jitte ability can't
trigger, and the Jitte will get no counters.

>I think that the damage is dealt when the creature is allowed to place the
>damage upon the stack, but I just wanted to be sure of that fact.

This is quite not the case; combat damage is dealt as it resolves OFF the
stack, and in your case your Jitte gets no counters this Combat.

Dave
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