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Shining Shoal and Protection from White

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Anonymous
July 21, 2005 7:00:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Another quick question for you.

I attack with a Hound of Isamaru (2/2 white creature) and my opponent blocks
with a hand of Cruelty. I play a shining shoal with X=3 to prevent the damage
from the Hand. Can I direct this to the Hand? Basically, I suppose I am
asking what is the source of the damage once the shoal has redirected it. I
would assume that the source is the shoal, however, the card seems to indicate
that the damage is still being dealt by its original source, just to a
different target.


Hand of Cruelty
{B}{B}
Creature -- Human Samurai
2/2
Protection from white
Bushido 1 (When this blocks or becomes blocked, it gets +1/+1 until end of
turn.)

Shining Shoal
{X}{W}{W}
Instant -- Arcane
You may remove a white card with converted mana cost X in your hand from the
game rather than pay ~this~'s mana cost.
The next X damage that a source of your choice would deal to you or a creature
you control this turn is dealt to target creature or player instead.

thank you,
K

--
In vino veritas
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 12:29:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

One of the voices in my head - or was it Kevin? - just said...
> Another quick question for you.
>
> I attack with a Hound of Isamaru (2/2 white creature) and my opponent blocks
> with a hand of Cruelty. I play a shining shoal with X=3 to prevent the damage
> from the Hand. Can I direct this to the Hand?

No.

> Basically, I suppose I am
> asking what is the source of the damage once the shoal has redirected it.

The source of the damage is unchanged. (Shining Shoal says it's dealt to
another creature or player instead, not that it's prevented and Shining
Shoal deals an equal amount of damage.) That is not what prevents you
from doing this.

The reason this doesn't work is that Shining Shoal is still a white
spell, and it targets the creature or player you want to redirect the
damage to (you know this because that's the only place the word
"target" is used in Shining Shoal's wording). Hand of Cruelty, which
has protection from white, cannot be the target of a white spell.

Since SS does *not* target the source of the damage as such (it says "a
source of your choice", not "target source" or anything like that), you
could still prevent the damage, you just couldn't redirect it to the
Hand; send it to your opponent or another creature of his instead.

> I
> would assume that the source is the shoal, however, the card seems to indicate
> that the damage is still being dealt by its original source, just to a
> different target.

Your second interpretation is the correct one.


> Hand of Cruelty
> {B}{B}
> Creature -- Human Samurai
> 2/2
> Protection from white
> Bushido 1 (When this blocks or becomes blocked, it gets +1/+1 until end of
> turn.)
>
> Shining Shoal
> {X}{W}{W}
> Instant -- Arcane
> You may remove a white card with converted mana cost X in your hand from the
> game rather than pay ~this~'s mana cost.
> The next X damage that a source of your choice would deal to you or a creature
> you control this turn is dealt to target creature or player instead.
>
> thank you,
> K
>
>
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 4:18:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Kevin <ktneely@no.spam.astroturfgarden.com> wrote:
>I attack with a Hound of Isamaru (2/2 white creature) and my opponent blocks
>with a hand of Cruelty. I play a shining shoal with X=3 to prevent the damage
>from the Hand. Can I direct this to the Hand? Basically, I suppose I am
>asking what is the source of the damage once the shoal has redirected it.

The source doesn't change. It's still damage "from" the same place; it's
now going to go -to- a different place, but that doesn't change where it's
from. "Redirection" effects just tell the damage "go THERE instead and get
dealt".

Also, you've got a different problem there: Shining Shoal is white, and Hand
of Cruelty has protection from white. So Shining Shoal can't target the Hand
at _all_.

>I would assume that the source is the shoal, however, the card seems to
>indicate that the damage is still being dealt by its original source, just
>to a different target.

The Shoal doesn't change where the damage is from, it just re-aims it. For
the Shoal to be a source of damage it would need to say "Prevent the next X
damage that a source of your choice would deal to you or a creature you
control. For each point of damage prevented this way, Shining Shoal deals
1 damage to target creature or player." or the like.

But, as noted, you can't target the Hand with the Shoal, so the Shoal can't
make the damage get dealt to the Hand instead, because it's redirecting the
damage to the 'target creature or player'. You'd need some nonwhite redirection
spell/ability, or a non-targetted one, to get the damage back to the Hand. You
can if you like send the damage over to your opponent; they're usually a
perfectly good target. (Or you could target yourself, if you were feeling
martyrlike, or you could target the Hound if you just wanted to use up the
Shoal and the mana to cast it.) If you targetted opponent, then the end
result is: Hand takes no damage, because the combat damage from the Hound to
it gets prevented by its proWhite; opponent takes two combat damage from the
Hand (yes, this is combat damage to the defending player from a blocking
creature - odd, but not impossible).

Note that it's perfectly legal to choose the proWhite Hand as the -source- of
the damage; proWhite does nothing to stop that at all.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
!