Cuombajj Witches

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Cuombajj Witches
BB
Creature - Witch
1/3
T: Cuombajj Witches deals 1 damage to target creature or player and 1
damage to target creature or player of an opponent's choice.

The Official Rules in Gatherer for Cuombajj Witches state that the two
targets have to be different. Why? Because it's intended to work this
way? In that case, why not phrase it differently:

T: Cuombajj Witches deals 1 damage to target creature or player and 1
damage to ANOTHER target creature or player of an opponent's choice.


--
Martin

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Martin Golm <golm@gmx.de> wrote:
> Cuombajj Witches
> BB
> Creature - Witch
> 1/3
> T: Cuombajj Witches deals 1 damage to target creature or player and 1
> damage to target creature or player of an opponent's choice.

> The Official Rules in Gatherer for Cuombajj Witches state that the two
> targets have to be different. Why? Because it's intended to work this
> way? In that case, why not phrase it differently:

> T: Cuombajj Witches deals 1 damage to target creature or player and 1
> damage to ANOTHER target creature or player of an opponent's choice.


> --
> Martin

I think that's a holdover from the old targeting rules, where a spell
or ability could choose each target only once, period. That's no longer
quite how it works. Straight from the August 1 Comprehensive Rules:

409.1c If the spell or ability requires any targets, the player first
announces how many targets he or she will choose (if the spell or
ability has a variable number of targets), then announces the targets
themselves. A spell or ability can't be played unless the required
number of legal targets are chosen. The same target can't be chosen
multiple times for any one instance of the word "target" on the spell
or ability. If the spell or ability uses the word "target" in multiple
places, the same object or player can be chosen once for each instance
of the word "target" (as long as it fits the targeting criteria).
Example: If an ability reads "Tap two target creatures," then the same
target can't be chosen twice; the ability requires two different legal
targets. An ability that reads "Destroy target artifact and target
land," however, can target the same artifact land twice because it
uses the word "target" in multiple places.

Basically, as near as *I* can tell that ruling listed on the Gatherer
page is outdated. You have two instances of the word 'target' in the
Witches' Oracle text, so the same target can be picked twice so long
as it meets each targeting requirement (which is easy because it's
'creature or player' in both cases -- of course, that only works if
your opponent does choose the same target as you do).

--
Klaus Mittag (mittag@informatik.uni-frankfurt.de)
#include <disclaimer.h>
#include <fancysig.h>
spam > /dev/null

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 10:00:17 +0200, Martin Golm <golm@gmx.de> wrote:
>Cuombajj Witches
>BB
>Creature - Witch
>1/3
>T: Cuombajj Witches deals 1 damage to target creature or player and 1
>damage to target creature or player of an opponent's choice.
>
>The Official Rules in Gatherer for Cuombajj Witches state that the two
>targets have to be different. Why?

Because this is a casualty of the change in the targetting rules for Splice,
which either didn't get the Ruling updated in Gatherer, or didn't get the card
wording updated in Oracle. (Yes, I see the 10/4/04 date on the Ruling; that
doesn't mean it's correct, alas.)

>Because it's intended to work this
>way? In that case, why not phrase it differently:
>
>T: Cuombajj Witches deals 1 damage to target creature or player and 1
>damage to ANOTHER target creature or player of an opponent's choice.

That wording would work as intended. So would "Cuombajj Witches deals 1 damage
to each of two target creatures and/or players. An opponent chooses one of the
targets.". But as currently worded, it mentions 'target' twice so the two
targets, by current rules, are allowed to be the same. I'll pass this problem
on up.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"David DeLaney" <dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote in message
news:slrndelta5.f1s.dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com...
> On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 10:00:17 +0200, Martin Golm <golm@gmx.de> wrote:
>>Cuombajj Witches
>>BB
>>Creature - Witch
>>1/3
>>T: Cuombajj Witches deals 1 damage to target creature or player and 1
>>damage to target creature or player of an opponent's choice.
>>
>>The Official Rules in Gatherer for Cuombajj Witches state that the two
>>targets have to be different. Why?
>
> Because this is a casualty of the change in the targetting rules for
> Splice,
> which either didn't get the Ruling updated in Gatherer, or didn't get the
> card
> wording updated in Oracle. (Yes, I see the 10/4/04 date on the Ruling;
> that
> doesn't mean it's correct, alas.)
>
>>Because it's intended to work this
>>way? In that case, why not phrase it differently:
>>
>>T: Cuombajj Witches deals 1 damage to target creature or player and 1
>>damage to ANOTHER target creature or player of an opponent's choice.
>
> That wording would work as intended. So would "Cuombajj Witches deals 1
> damage
> to each of two target creatures and/or players. An opponent chooses one of
> the
> targets.". But as currently worded, it mentions 'target' twice so the two
> targets, by current rules, are allowed to be the same. I'll pass this
> problem
> on up.

For reference, original wording on Cuombajj Witches (Arabian Nights), off
WotC page
( http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/general/cuombajj_witches.jpg ):

Tap to do 1 damage to any target; opponent may also do 1 damage to any
target. You choose your target before opponent does, but damage is inflicted
simultaneously.

Isn't the way it's worded now supposed to allow Decimate to be used on a
single target (a Copy Artifact of a Darksteel Citadel with Nature's Revolt
in play, perhaps)? Saying 'target' multiple times used to mean, if memory
serves me right, used to mean you'd need a different target for each
instance of the word. Am I confused, as usual?

Erich

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Erich Leibrock <eleibrock@symDELETETHECAPSpatico.ca> wrote:

> Isn't the way it's worded now supposed to allow Decimate to be used on a
> single target (a Copy Artifact of a Darksteel Citadel with Nature's Revolt
> in play, perhaps)? Saying 'target' multiple times used to mean, if memory
> serves me right, used to mean you'd need a different target for each
> instance of the word. Am I confused, as usual?

It used to be that all targets had to be different, regardless of
whether the word "target" appeared once or more than once. They changed
that when they added splice.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W