Sakashima the Impostor

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

If I cast Sakashima and copy Kokusho, the Evening Star, will I gain 5
life and my opponent lose 5 life if it's put in the graveyard?

My opponent says no because Sakashima copies everything except the
card's name and Kokusho's triggered ability states "When Kokusho, the
Evening Star...", therefore nothing triggers, is he correct?

Sakashima the Impostor
{2}{U}{U}
Legendary Creature -- Human Rogue
3/1
As Sakashima the Impostor comes into play, you may choose a creature in
play. If you do, Sakashima comes into play as a copy of that creature,
except its name is still Sakashima the Impostor, it's still legendary,
and it gains "{2UU}: Return Sakashima the Impostor to its owner's hand
at end of turn."

Kokusho, The Evening Star
{4}{B}{B} Legendary Creature -- Dragon Spirit
5/5
Flying
When Kokusho, the Evening Star is put into a graveyard from play, each
opponent loses 5 life. You gain life equal to the life lost this way.

 

[Phil]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

And if the answer turns out to be no, suppose the same situation but
this time it is the original Kokusho that goes to the graveyard. Would
you get two 'opponents lose 5 life etc' abilities on the stack? One
from Kokusho and the other from Sakashima who has the text ' When
Kokusho, the Evening Star is put into a graveyard from play, each
opponent loses 5 life. You gain life equal to the life lost this way'.

thanks

Phil.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On 22 Aug 2005 05:31:42 -0700, eelrix@hotmail.com <eelrix@hotmail.com> wrote:
>If I cast Sakashima and copy Kokusho, the Evening Star, will I gain 5
>life and my opponent lose 5 life if it's put in the graveyard?

Yes.

>My opponent says no because Sakashima copies everything except the
>card's name and Kokusho's triggered ability states "When Kokusho, the
>Evening Star...", therefore nothing triggers, is he correct?

Nope; that would mean things like "Prodigal Sorcerer deals 1 damage to target
creature or player" also wouldn't work. The rules do handle this:

202.2. Text that refers to the object it's on by name means just that
particular object and not any other duplicates of it, regardless of any name
changes caused by game effects.

Thus, Kokusho's use of its own name just means "me". When Sakashima copies
that, _its_ use just means "me" too, ignoring the fact that Sakashima's
name is different from the name in the ability which is trying to refer to
the permanent it's on... For a similar case, look at Vesuvan Doppelganger.
It changes its _own_ name when it becomes a copy of something else, yet the
ability it gets in the process from the copy effect has "Vesuvan Doppelganger"
in its text, not the new name. But the ability still works and refers to the
permanent correctly, and lets it copy something else again, etc.

(Note that 202.2b does NOT apply here; that covers the case where Kokusho
somehow gives Sakashima an ability that includes Kokusho's name, not the
case where Sakashima takes an ability from Kokusho that includes Kokusho's
name. If you see the difference there...)

I've already let them know once some time back that the Name section does
seem to need to state this bit explicitly, but nothing much happened...

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

phil@ideastakingshape.co.uk <phil@ideastakingshape.co.uk> wrote:
>And if the answer turns out to be no, suppose the same situation but
>this time it is the original Kokusho that goes to the graveyard. Would
>you get two 'opponents lose 5 life etc' abilities on the stack? One
>from Kokusho and the other from Sakashima who has the text ' When
>Kokusho, the Evening Star is put into a graveyard from play, each
>opponent loses 5 life. You gain life equal to the life lost this way'.

_If_ 202.2b were the rule that covered this, then that would be how it
worked. But, fortunately, that rule doesn't cover Sakashima _taking_ an
ability from Kokusho that includes Kokusho's name. Sakashima's copies of the
abilities of the original use the original's name in the text to refer to
"the permanent I am on" - Sakashima. NOT to "the permanent I was copied from
which has this name".

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.