Ninjutsu & ninjutsu again

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Really, it depends on exactly when you played the ninjutsu ability.

Here are the five steps for the combat phase:
***
306.1. The combat phase has five steps, which proceed in order:
beginning of combat, declare attackers, declare blockers, combat
damage, and end of combat. ...
***

Also, here is the official definition of 'unblocked':
***
309.2f An attacking creature with one or more creatures declared as
blockers for it becomes a blocked creature; one with no blockers
becomes an unblocked creature. The creature's status remains unchanged
until the creature is removed from combat or the combat phase ends,
whichever comes first. (Some effects can change a creature's status.)
***

So, you see, a creature can't officially be an 'unblocked' creature
until after blockers are declared.

Now, let's double check the rules for Ninjutsu:
***
502.43a ... "Ninjutsu ..." means "... Reveal this card from your hand,
Return an unblocked creature you control to its owner's hand: Put this
card into play from your hand tapped and attacking."
***

Finally, let me say that, if you are in a position to play Ninjutsu,
that is you have an unblocked creature to return to your hand, then you
can Ninjutsu back that creature, replacing it with an attacking (and
unblocked) Ninja (let's assume for simplicity that only Ninjas have
Ninjutsu at this point). You can then decide, as you did, to Ninjutsu
back that Ninja, as it is unblocked, and replace it with another Ninja
or even the one your started with.

Which is what you did. So there's no problem there. The issue at hand
is really, at what step did he play his Echoing Truth?

If he played it after blockers were declared, and he had no blockers or
neglected to block your Ink-Eyes, your double-Ninjutsu move to avoid
the Truth and keep Ink-Eyes attacking is legal.

However, if he played it after you declared attackers, but before you
declared blockers, then your Ink-Eyes is not unblocked and cannot be
Ninjutsu'd. Even if he had no creatures to block with.

Do you see the difference?

Not having been there, I can't say which step you were in. It sounds
like you never left the Declare Attackers step, but I obviously don't
know for sure. That's up to you and him to work out.

My suggestion, when playing Ninjutsu, is to always ask if they are
declaring blockers, or if no creatures are present, ask to proceed to
the combat damage step. "Combat damage on the stack?" is good enough
to give them the chance to do something before moving on.

Hope that helped.
Peter

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On 31 Aug 2005 10:50:01 -0700, Eibi <eibi99@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Today I've had some problems playing a game. The situation is this:
>
>Declare attackers step. I have just 8 lands untapped.
>I tap and declare as attackers two creatures: Ink-eyes & Nekrataal
>(card text at the end).

Okay.

>My opponent plays an Echoing Truth (return to hand) targeting my
>Ink-eyes.

Okay. We're now during declare-attackers step.

>I have made ninjutsu with a Throat Slitter from my hand in response to
>his instant, returning the Ink-Eyes to my hand.

Sorry. Can't do this yet. Why? Because blockers -have not been declared yet-
.... which means that there ARE no blocked attackers yet, _and there are no
unblocked attackers yet either_. Attackers don't become blocked or unblocked
until step 3 of combat starts... so opponent has all of step 2, declare-
attackers step, to mess with your attacking creatures before you're allowed
to use NinjaRemoval on them.

>After that (when Echoing Truth is resolved), I've played ninjutsu again
>with the Ink-eyes returning the Nekrataal to my hand.

_If_ opponent waited until declare-blockers step (after blockers were
declared, and none were for the Ink-Eyes) before announcing his Echoing
Truth, then this is fine and your action after that is also fine (and the
Echoing Truth gets countered on resolution for missing target).

But if opponent was doing this before blockers are declared, you're not
allowed to use Ninjutsu yet. Ninjutsu is only usable -after- blockers are
declared (even, or especially, if none are declared).

>Result: 7 damages, a stolen creature from his graveyard, and Nekrataal
>in my hand (ready to return to play with an untapped Aether Vial with 4
>counters).
>
>My opponent said I can't use ninjutsu in that way, get angry and went
>away calling me noob(?).
>
>I'm almost sure this is a legal play. Isn't it?

Depends _entirely_ on when he was trying to do it. If he was, as I suspect
from your description, specifically doing this before blockers were declared?
Then he's correct that you can't Ninjutsu anything yet, because your Ink-Eyes
isn't blocked _or_ unblocked yet.

If he waited, declared no blockers, THEN cast his Echoing Truth? Well, then
he's vulnerable to Ninja trickery such as you describe. I'm guessing he
did not, though.

Dave
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