Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)
I have a question about the following card rumoured to be in the
forthcoming Ravnica set:
Grifter's Blade (possible Ravnica uncommon)
3
Artifact - Equipment
You may play Grifter's Blade any time you could play an instant.
Grifter's Blade comes into play equipping a creature of your choice you
control.
Equipped creature gets +1/+1.
Equip 1
Assuming this is the correct wording, if I play this when I control no
creatures, what happens?
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)
Jeff Heikkinen schrieb:
> I have a question about the following card rumoured to be in the
> forthcoming Ravnica set:
>
> Grifter's Blade (possible Ravnica uncommon)
> 3
> Artifact - Equipment
> You may play Grifter's Blade any time you could play an instant.
> Grifter's Blade comes into play equipping a creature of your choice you
> control.
> Equipped creature gets +1/+1.
> Equip 1
>
> Assuming this is the correct wording, if I play this when I control no
> creatures, what happens?
If you haven't got a creature in play it will simply stay there
unattached. Effects from spells and abilities only do as much as they can.
416.3. If an effect attempts to do something impossible, it does only as
much as possible.
Example: If a player is holding only one card, an effect that reads
"Discard two cards" causes him or her to discard only that card. If an
effect moves cards out of the library (as opposed to drawing), it moves
as many as possible.
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)
Chances are suprisingly good that Maz was not wearing pants when he or
she said:
> Jeff Heikkinen schrieb:
> > I have a question about the following card rumoured to be in the
> > forthcoming Ravnica set:
> >
> > Grifter's Blade (possible Ravnica uncommon)
> > 3
> > Artifact - Equipment
> > You may play Grifter's Blade any time you could play an instant.
> > Grifter's Blade comes into play equipping a creature of your choice you
> > control.
> > Equipped creature gets +1/+1.
> > Equip 1
> >
> > Assuming this is the correct wording, if I play this when I control no
> > creatures, what happens?
>
> If you haven't got a creature in play it will simply stay there
> unattached. Effects from spells and abilities only do as much as they can..
>
> 416.3. If an effect attempts to do something impossible, it does only as
> much as possible.
>
> Example: If a player is holding only one card, an effect that reads
> ⤽Discard two cards⤠causes him or her to discard only that card. If an
> effect moves cards out of the library (as opposed to drawing), it moves
> as many as possible.
I realize impossible instructions are to be ignored, but what
constitutes ignoring it in this case? It coming into play normally like
any other equipment card, or it failing to come into play at all? I'm
90% sure you're right and it's the first one, but it's not clear to me
that the rule you cite settles the issue.
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)
You can bring an Uktabi Orangutan into play without there being an
artifact right? It just ignored the triggered ability of the Orangutan.
Why would this be any diffferent?
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)
Chances are suprisingly good that Hardtrack was not wearing pants when
he or she said:
> You can bring an Uktabi Orangutan into play without there being an
> artifact right? It just ignored the triggered ability of the Orangutan.
> Why would this be any diffferent?
It's not a triggered ability, it's a replacement effect that replaces
the event "Grifter's Blade comes into play".
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)
Jeff Heikkinen <no.way@jose.org> wrote:
> Chances are suprisingly good that Maz was not wearing pants when he or
> she said:
> > Jeff Heikkinen schrieb:
> > > I have a question about the following card rumoured to be in the
> > > forthcoming Ravnica set:
> > >
> > > Grifter's Blade (possible Ravnica uncommon)
> > > 3
> > > Artifact - Equipment
> > > You may play Grifter's Blade any time you could play an instant.
> > > Grifter's Blade comes into play equipping a creature of your choice you
> > > control.
> > > Equipped creature gets +1/+1.
> > > Equip 1
> > >
> > > Assuming this is the correct wording, if I play this when I control no
> > > creatures, what happens?
> >
> > If you haven't got a creature in play it will simply stay there
> > unattached. Effects from spells and abilities only do as much as they can.
> >
> > 416.3. If an effect attempts to do something impossible, it does only as
> > much as possible.
> >
> > Example: If a player is holding only one card, an effect that reads
> > ⤽Discard two cards� causes him or her to discard only that card. If an
> > effect moves cards out of the library (as opposed to drawing), it moves
> > as many as possible.
>
> I realize impossible instructions are to be ignored, but what
> constitutes ignoring it in this case? It coming into play normally like
> any other equipment card, or it failing to come into play at all? I'm
> 90% sure you're right and it's the first one, but it's not clear to me
> that the rule you cite settles the issue.
Coming into play is still possible and still happens. It's just the
"equipping a creature of your choice you control" that has trouble.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/ 039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)
On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 21:49:23 GMT, Jeff Heikkinen <no.way@jose.org> wrote:
>I have a question about the following card rumoured to be in the
>forthcoming Ravnica set:
"Rumored to be" cards generally have their wording incorrect or not
copied right, remember, mainly because nearly nobody out there who wants
to release sneak peeks at future cards to show how StUdLy they are for
finding this card out ahead of time actually realizes that exact wordings
matter extremely in Magic. (And the ones who make up cards to sneak-preview
of course almost always get wordings way off from what an actual version
of the card would have been worded like.)
>Grifter's Blade (possible Ravnica uncommon) >3 >Artifact - Equipment
>You may play Grifter's Blade any time you could play an instant.
>Grifter's Blade comes into play equipping a creature of your choice you
>control. / >Equipped creature gets +1/+1. / >Equip 1
>Assuming this is the correct wording, if I play this when I control no
>creatures, what happens?
Then you try to choose a creature you control it could equip; you can't do
so; and the second ability can't function. So this Equipment card doesn't
come into play equipped to anything; it comes into play "by itself",
unattached, as Equipment cards usually do, since the effect trying to put
it into play equipped to something has no something to stick it onto.
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)
Jeff Heikkinen schrieb:
> Chances are suprisingly good that Hardtrack was not wearing pants when
> he or she said:
>
>>You can bring an Uktabi Orangutan into play without there being an
>>artifact right? It just ignored the triggered ability of the Orangutan.
>>Why would this be any diffferent?
>
>
> It's not a triggered ability, it's a replacement effect that replaces
> the event "Grifter's Blade comes into play".
Rule 416.3 Refers to an "effect" in general
The definition in the glossary is clearer in that case:
Effect
"Ability" and "effect" are often confused with one another. When a spell
or ability resolves, it may create one or more one-shot or continuous
effects. Static abilities may create one or more continuous effects.
Some effects are replacement effects or prevention effects. State-based
effects are not created by spells or abilities; they are generated by
specific states of the game. See rule 416, "Effects."
Gifter's blade creates a one-shot effect forcing you to to choose a
creature equipping it, if you've got one (at least I believe it would be
worded with "may choose" otherwise) but only at the moment it comes
into play.
If it is impossible to choose a creature at that point that ability does
nothing.
A wording which prevents you from playing gifter's blade without a
creature in play could be written as a replacement ability (similar to
phyrexian dreadnought).
E.g. "If gifter's blade would come into play, unless you choose a
creature in play you control, it remains in the zone it came from.
Gifter's blade comes into play equipping that creature"
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)
> It's not a triggered ability, it's a replacement effect that replaces
> the event "Grifter's Blade comes into play".
Sorry got confused myself here ):
Of course Grifter's blade already creates a replacement effect
419.1c Continuous effects that read "[This permanent] comes into play .
.. ." or "[Objects] come into play . . ." are replacement effects.
Still the replacement effect will simply do nothing if it cannot replace
the event in the stated way.
The problem is the interpretation of "choose".
Choosing nothing if you haven't got a creature seems perfectly ok to me
(I couldn't find a defintion of "choose" in the rules however...)
