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"can block as though it had flying" - never actually HAS f..

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Anonymous
September 14, 2005 6:05:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello, all,
I'd like to clarify the following: a creature which "can block as
though it had flying" never actually HAS flying, does it? The question
is relevant in case of Student of Elements enchanted with Web: will it
flip after being declared as a blocker? I think not, just like Soul
Burn played with Mycosynth Lattice counts only the ACTUAL black mana
spent to play this spell for its lifegain part, not any other mana
spent "as though it were {B}".

Of course, other effects (such as Dense Canopy or the infamous
Chaosphere) checking validity of blocks WILL see the Webbed creature as
having flying. Thus Giant Spiders with Dense Canopy in play won't be
able to block ground creatures...

Regards,
Arkady.
==================================================================
Web
G
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature (Target a creature as you play this. This card comes
into play attached to that creature.)
Enchanted creature gets +0/+2 and can block as though it had flying.
==================================================================
Student of Elements
1U
Creature - Human Wizard
1/1
When Student of Elements has flying, flip it.
-----
Tobita, Master of Winds
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard
3/3
Creatures you control have flying.
==================================================================
Dense Canopy
1G
Enchantment
Creatures with flying can't block creatures without flying.

More about : block flying

September 14, 2005 8:52:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Okay, I started with this analogy:

Just because I can howl as though I am a wolf, that doesn't mean I am a
wolf.

Which is pretty much true. But in Magic, it's not exactly true. The
definition of As Though:
***
Text that states a player or card may do something "as though" some
condition were true applies only to the stated action. For purposes of
that action, treat the game exactly as if the stated condition is true.
For all other purposes, treat the game normally.
***

So, the Spider never actually has flying. Which makes sense, given the
analogy above. But the analogy breaks down when we apply it to the
actual 'stated action'.

In the Spider's case, we treat the Spider as if it has flying, for the
purposes of declaring blockers, in all instances. This means that
things preventing creatures with flying from blocking, such as Dense
Canopy or Chaosphere, actually affect the Spider and prevent the Spider
from blocking.

So, according to Magic rules, when I howl as though I am a wolf, I *am*
a wolf, for the sake of howling. Which is weird, but that's how it
works in Da Rules.

I hope I didn't screw anything up.
Enjoy!
Peter
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 11:12:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On 14 Sep 2005 14:05:25 -0700, Zarin <arkadyz1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I'd like to clarify the following: a creature which "can block as
>though it had flying" never actually HAS flying, does it?

Right. "As though" can be translated, to a good approximation, as "let's
pretend".

> The question
>is relevant in case of Student of Elements enchanted with Web: will it
>flip after being declared as a blocker?

Nope. It never gained flying at all. It just got to block pretending it did.

>Of course, other effects (such as Dense Canopy or the infamous
>Chaosphere) checking validity of blocks WILL see the Webbed creature as
>having flying.

Look closer; the two you mention both are checking whether things have flying
_for the purposes of blocking_. Which is exactly what Web is saying it can
pretend-like. So yes, those two get to interact with Spider-like abilities.

>Thus Giant Spiders with Dense Canopy in play won't be
>able to block ground creatures...

Exactly.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
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Anonymous
September 19, 2005 12:30:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Risser wrote:
> Okay, I started with this analogy:
>
> Just because I can howl as though I am a wolf, that doesn't mean I am a
> wolf.
....
> In the Spider's case, we treat the Spider as if it has flying, for the
> purposes of declaring blockers, in all instances. This means that
> things preventing creatures with flying from blocking, such as Dense
> Canopy or Chaosphere, actually affect the Spider and prevent the Spider
> from blocking.
>
> So, according to Magic rules, when I howl as though I am a wolf, I *am*
> a wolf, for the sake of howling. Which is weird, but that's how it
> works in Da Rules.

The rules are working on a different analogy.
If you can howl "as though you were a wolf", you're saying your howl is
indistiguishable from that of a wolf. So everyone that hears your howl
thinks "hey, that's the howl of a wolf!" and reacts accordingly.

--
Laurie Cheers
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 6:15:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Laurie Cheers (laurie.cheers@btinternet.com) wrote:
: Risser wrote:
: >
: > Just because I can howl as though I am a wolf, that doesn't mean I am a
: > wolf.
: ...
: > In the Spider's case, we treat the Spider as if it has flying, for the
: > purposes of declaring blockers, in all instances. This means that
: > things preventing creatures with flying from blocking, such as Dense
: > Canopy or Chaosphere, actually affect the Spider and prevent the Spider
: > from blocking.
: >
: > So, according to Magic rules, when I howl as though I am a wolf, I *am*
: > a wolf, for the sake of howling. Which is weird, but that's how it
: > works in Da Rules.

: The rules are working on a different analogy.
: If you can howl "as though you were a wolf", you're saying your howl is
: indistiguishable from that of a wolf. So everyone that hears your howl
: thinks "hey, that's the howl of a wolf!" and reacts accordingly.

Which is also wierd, in that when howling, things react as
if you were a wolf even when they can clearly see you're in
all other respects a bear...and in this particular case,
you yourself are fooled by your own howling and convince
yourself you *are* a wolf...


Keith
!