"Becomes attached to" and moving Auras

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Another question from the Ravnica prereleases:

Bramble Elemental {3}{G}{G} Creature -- Elemental
4/4
Whenever an Aura becomes attached to Bramble Elemental, put two 1/1
green Saproling creature tokens into play.

Stasis Cell {4}{U} Enchantment -- Aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature doesn't untap during its controller's untap step.
{3}{U}: Attach Stasis Cell to target creature.

Bramble Elemental is enchanted with Stasis Cell. Stasis Cell's
controller plays its activated ability, targeting the Bramble
Elemental that it's sitting on. Does the Elemental's controller get
tokens?

I went to one prerelease on Saturday, judging, and we ruled that since
the Stasis Cell was changing from a state of being unattached to a
state of being attached, the Elemental's ability doesn't trigger. I
recall there being something similar with Equipment in Mirrodin block,
but I can't remember offhand what it is.

However, I went to a different prerelease on Sunday, playing, and the
judges there ruled that the "Attach" event happens again, much like
something being targeted a second time would trigger a "Whenever
~this~ becomes the target of a spell or ability"-kind of
ability. Thus, the controller would get the tokens. They seemed less
sure of it, though.

I tend to think that one doesn't get the tokens, but I'm curious what
others think. I would have expected it to be in the set FAQ, but I
guess that they can't think of every possible confusing thing ahead of
time.

--
Peter C.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Peter Cooper Jr. <pete@cooperjr.name> wrote:

> Another question from the Ravnica prereleases:
>
> Bramble Elemental {3}{G}{G} Creature -- Elemental
> 4/4
> Whenever an Aura becomes attached to Bramble Elemental, put two 1/1
> green Saproling creature tokens into play.
>
> Stasis Cell {4}{U} Enchantment -- Aura
> Enchant creature
> Enchanted creature doesn't untap during its controller's untap step.
> {3}{U}: Attach Stasis Cell to target creature.
>
> Bramble Elemental is enchanted with Stasis Cell. Stasis Cell's
> controller plays its activated ability, targeting the Bramble
> Elemental that it's sitting on. Does the Elemental's controller get
> tokens?

No.

Becomes
Some trigger events use the word "becomes" (for example, "becomes
tapped" or "becomes blocked"). These trigger only at the time the named
event happens-they don't trigger if that state already exists or
retrigger if it persists. For example, "becomes tapped" triggers only
once and only when a permanent's status changes from untapped to tapped.

A "becomes tapped" trigger does nothing if it is already tapped when Icy
Manipulator's ability is used. This is equivalent.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

 

[Dave]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"Daniel W. Johnson" <panoptes@iquest.net> wrote in message
news:1h3iq6a.1bgi7q1vvq0myN%panoptes@iquest.net...
> Peter Cooper Jr. <pete@cooperjr.name> wrote:
>
>> Another question from the Ravnica prereleases:
>>
>> Bramble Elemental {3}{G}{G} Creature -- Elemental
>> 4/4
>> Whenever an Aura becomes attached to Bramble Elemental, put two 1/1
>> green Saproling creature tokens into play.
>>
>> Stasis Cell {4}{U} Enchantment -- Aura
>> Enchant creature
>> Enchanted creature doesn't untap during its controller's untap step.
>> {3}{U}: Attach Stasis Cell to target creature.
>>
>> Bramble Elemental is enchanted with Stasis Cell. Stasis Cell's
>> controller plays its activated ability, targeting the Bramble
>> Elemental that it's sitting on. Does the Elemental's controller get
>> tokens?
>
> No.
>
> Becomes
> Some trigger events use the word "becomes" (for example, "becomes
> tapped" or "becomes blocked"). These trigger only at the time the named
> event happens-they don't trigger if that state already exists or
> retrigger if it persists. For example, "becomes tapped" triggers only
> once and only when a permanent's status changes from untapped to tapped.
>
> A "becomes tapped" trigger does nothing if it is already tapped when Icy
> Manipulator's ability is used. This is equivalent.


Would the Elemental's ability trigger if a different Aura other than
Stasis Cell was attached to it?

- Dave
Magic: The Gathering card singles
http://www.destinationmtg.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Dave <im@not.telling> wrote:

> "Daniel W. Johnson" <panoptes@iquest.net> wrote in message
> news:1h3iq6a.1bgi7q1vvq0myN%panoptes@iquest.net...
> > Peter Cooper Jr. <pete@cooperjr.name> wrote:
> >
> >> Another question from the Ravnica prereleases:
> >>
> >> Bramble Elemental {3}{G}{G} Creature -- Elemental
> >> 4/4
> >> Whenever an Aura becomes attached to Bramble Elemental, put two 1/1
> >> green Saproling creature tokens into play.
> >>
> >> Stasis Cell {4}{U} Enchantment -- Aura
> >> Enchant creature
> >> Enchanted creature doesn't untap during its controller's untap step.
> >> {3}{U}: Attach Stasis Cell to target creature.
> >>
> >> Bramble Elemental is enchanted with Stasis Cell. Stasis Cell's
> >> controller plays its activated ability, targeting the Bramble
> >> Elemental that it's sitting on. Does the Elemental's controller get
> >> tokens?
> >
> > No.
> >
> > Becomes
> > Some trigger events use the word "becomes" (for example, "becomes
> > tapped" or "becomes blocked"). These trigger only at the time the named
> > event happens-they don't trigger if that state already exists or
> > retrigger if it persists. For example, "becomes tapped" triggers only
> > once and only when a permanent's status changes from untapped to tapped.
> >
> > A "becomes tapped" trigger does nothing if it is already tapped when Icy
> > Manipulator's ability is used. This is equivalent.
>
>
> Would the Elemental's ability trigger if a different Aura other than
> Stasis Cell was attached to it?

It will trigger whenever any Aura BECOMES attached to it. It just
doesn't trigger when an Aura REMAINS attached to it.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:40:16 -0400, Peter Cooper Jr. <pete@cooperjr.name> wrote:
>Another question from the Ravnica prereleases:
>
>Bramble Elemental 3GG Creature -- Elemental
>4/4 Whenever an Aura becomes attached to ~, put two 1/1
>green Saproling creature tokens into play.
>
>Stasis Cell 4U Enchantment -- Aura
> Enchant creature Enchanted creature doesn't untap during its controller's
> untap step. / 3U: Attach ~ to target creature.
>
>Bramble Elemental is enchanted with Stasis Cell. Stasis Cell's
>controller plays its activated ability, targeting the Bramble
>Elemental that it's sitting on. Does the Elemental's controller get tokens?

No; it did not "become attached to" it, because it already was attached to
it. Now if you move the Stasis Cell to some other creature, then back, then
yes, you get the tokens; if you have two Bramble Elementals out you can
get tokens each time this way. But not with just one BE.

>I went to one prerelease on Saturday, judging, and we ruled that since
>the Stasis Cell was changing from a state of being unattached to a
^---"not"?
>state of being attached, the Elemental's ability doesn't trigger. I
>recall there being something similar with Equipment in Mirrodin block,
>but I can't remember offhand what it is.

>However, I went to a different prerelease on Sunday, playing, and the
>judges there ruled that the "Attach" event happens again, much like
>something being targeted a second time would trigger a "Whenever
>~this~ becomes the target of a spell or ability"-kind of
>ability. Thus, the controller would get the tokens. They seemed less
>sure of it, though.

Again, "changing" the target to the same thing it was targetting before does
not cause it to "become" the target of it. The Glossary does go over this:
" These trigger only at the time the named event happens - they don't trigger
if that state already exists or retrigger if it persists. For example, "becomes
tapped" triggers only once and only when a permanent's status changes from
untapped to tapped.".

>I tend to think that one doesn't get the tokens, but I'm curious what
>others think. I would have expected it to be in the set FAQ, but I
>guess that they can't think of every possible confusing thing ahead of
>time.

We try, but we can't possibly come up with all the questions that several
million unpaid playtesters will find just after the release... Yes, you
do not get the tokens in that case, since it "stayed attached" rather than
"becoming attached".

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Dave <im@not.telling> wrote:
>"Daniel W. Johnson" <panoptes@iquest.net> wrote in message
>> Peter Cooper Jr. <pete@cooperjr.name> wrote:
>>> Bramble Elemental {3}{G}{G} Creature -- Elemental
>>> 4/4 Whenever an Aura becomes attached to Bramble Elemental, put two 1/1
>>> green Saproling creature tokens into play.
>>
>> A "becomes tapped" trigger does nothing if it is already tapped when Icy
>> Manipulator's ability is used. This is equivalent.
>
>Would the Elemental's ability trigger if a different Aura other than
>Stasis Cell was attached to it?

Sure - IF the other Aura had not previously been enchanting the Bramble
Elemental. If you somehow managed (and this isn't actually possible) to
"move" the other Aura from the BE to the BE again, then again it would not
trigger, because the Aura didn't become attached to the BE, since it was
already attached to the BE beforehand.

Not sure whether that's the question you thought you were asking; if not,
please clarify.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Dave]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"David DeLaney" <dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote in message
news:slrndjji0f.6ha.dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com...
> Dave <im@not.telling> wrote:
>>"Daniel W. Johnson" <panoptes@iquest.net> wrote in message
>>> Peter Cooper Jr. <pete@cooperjr.name> wrote:
>>>> Bramble Elemental {3}{G}{G} Creature -- Elemental
>>>> 4/4 Whenever an Aura becomes attached to Bramble Elemental, put two
>>>> 1/1
>>>> green Saproling creature tokens into play.
>>>
>>> A "becomes tapped" trigger does nothing if it is already tapped when Icy
>>> Manipulator's ability is used. This is equivalent.
>>
>>Would the Elemental's ability trigger if a different Aura other than
>>Stasis Cell was attached to it?
>
> Sure - IF the other Aura had not previously been enchanting the Bramble
> Elemental. If you somehow managed (and this isn't actually possible) to
> "move" the other Aura from the BE to the BE again, then again it would not
> trigger, because the Aura didn't become attached to the BE, since it was
> already attached to the BE beforehand.
>
> Not sure whether that's the question you thought you were asking; if not,
> please clarify.


That basically answered it. I just wanted to make sure that if I
put a Rancor on it, and then, say, Spirit Link, the ability would
trigger twice, once for each of the Auras that became attached to
it.

Now, I'm gonna definately hook the dude up with a nice little
card like Whip Silk:

Whip Silk - {G}
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature can block as though it had flying.
{G}: Return Whip Silk to its owner's hand.

Casual play fun!

- Dave
Magic: The Gathering card singles
http://www.destinationmtg.com

 

[RisseR]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Except, Crown of the Ages only works if you're moving the Aura from
another creature. As we discussed already, if it moves it from the BE
to the BE, the trigger never fires. Well, I don't think it can even do
that, because it says "to another creature", so I guess it's moot.

***
Crown of the Ages {2}
Artifact
Ice Age Rare
- 4, T: Attach target Aura attached to a creature to another creature.
***

Peter

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Dave <im@not.telling> wrote:
>"David DeLaney" <dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote in message
>>>>> Bramble Elemental {3}{G}{G} Creature -- Elemental
>>>>> 4/4 Whenever an Aura becomes attached to Bramble Elemental, put two
>>>>> 1/1 green Saproling creature tokens into play.
>>
>> Not sure whether that's the question you thought you were asking; if not,
>> please clarify.
>
>That basically answered it. I just wanted to make sure that if I
>put a Rancor on it, and then, say, Spirit Link, the ability would
>trigger twice, once for each of the Auras that became attached to it.

Oh yes - once each time. (They will go on the stack separately, in that case,
and resolve separately, so you get two, then later two more.) It doesn't
say anything about 'and BE loses this ability', so it doesn't only happen
the first time or anything like that - it triggers each time the trigger
event happens.

>Now, I'm gonna definately hook the dude up with a nice little
>card like Whip Silk:
>
>Whip Silk - {G} Enchantment - Aura
>Enchant creature Enchanted creature can block as though it had flying.
>{G}: Return Whip Silk to its owner's hand.

....or Crown of the Ages...

Dave "jest sayin'" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.