Measure of Wickedness

[RisseR]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

***
Measure of Wickedness {3B}
Enchantment
Saviors of Kamigawa Uncommon
- At the end of your turn, sacrifice Measure of Wickedness and you lose
8 life.
- Whenever another card is put into your graveyard from anywhere,
target opponent gains control of Measure of Wickedness.
***

What's the absolute latest point in your turn that you can sac
something and donate your Measure of Wickedness?

I think End of Turn step on my turn is too late, because the triggered
ability will have gone on the stack, and when it resolves, I won't be
able to sac the Measure, but I'll still have to take 8 damage.

And the End of Turn step on his turn is too late, because the thing
won't trigger and I'd have to wait until his next turn.

So I think second main, although if I donate it on my own turn, I still
have to wait until the end of his turn for it to trigger.

Although, if I manage to kill something of his in response, I get it
back... Hmmm.


Also, am I correct in surmising that, should I play some sort of
board-clearer on my turn that wipes both my own permanents and my
opponent's permanents, that he would end up with the Measure because we
stack triggered abilities in AP-NAP order and his (NAP) resolve first?

Considering,
Peter

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

It won't trigger if a card ends up in your graveyard while the Measure
is controlled by your opponent, since no card is put into 'your'
graveyard (you on the card being the controller).

The last time to give it to your opponent without taking damage
yourself is indeed in your post-combat main phase.

A cool trick though is to (if they control Measure) kill something in
their end of turn step, after the Measure has triggered. Their creature
(or whatever you destroyed) will go to their graveyard, triggering the
donate ability and you will gain control of it when that resolves, then
the damage ability will resolve and deal them eight damage, but will
fail to sacrifice the Measure, since you now control it. Have fun with
that!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Ok, sorry, Lose life. I know it's a big difference but this isn't about
preventing it, but moving the Measure around. In this case it doesn't
matter that much. But yeah, you're right, loss of life not damage.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On 27 Sep 2005 11:13:38 -0700, Risser <knucklehead000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>***
>Measure of Wickedness {3B} Enchantment
>Saviors of Kamigawa Uncommon
>- At the end of your turn, sacrifice Measure of Wickedness and you lose
>8 life.
>- Whenever another card is put into your graveyard from anywhere,
>target opponent gains control of Measure of Wickedness.
>***
>
>What's the absolute latest point in your turn that you can sac
>something and donate your Measure of Wickedness?

Before the triggered ability resolves. In other words, you can still do
so during End of Turn step, but you can't wait until the first ability
resolves, THEN try to do so "just beforehand". You'd have to do so when you
had priority while the ability was on the stack.

(Remember, also, that you can't "just sacrifice" something - you always have
to have some reason to do so, like Phyrexian Altar or the like.)

Notice that the second ability triggers whenever a spell card goes to your
graveyard from the stack, as well as whenever a card goes to your graveyard
from play; "sacrificing stuff" is not the only means to get this to trigger.

Finally: if you do do this while the first ability is on the stack? Both of
you will get priority _after_ the opponent gains control of MoW but BEFORE
the first ability resolves... so, if he can, he'll always have the
opportunity to get it BACK to you, still before the first ability resolves.
"Hot Potato" is the concept involved here...

>I think End of Turn step on my turn is too late, because the triggered
>ability will have gone on the stack, and when it resolves, I won't be
>able to sac the Measure, but I'll still have to take 8 damage.

Once it resolves, that's correct. But you can still do stuff while the
ability is on the stack. Cleanup step is definitely too late, as it will
already have been sacrificed by then if you did not manage to give it away.

>Although, if I manage to kill something of his in response, I get it
>back... Hmmm.

Yes, it's complex.

>Also, am I correct in surmising that, should I play some sort of
>board-clearer on my turn that wipes both my own permanents and my
>opponent's permanents, that he would end up with the Measure because we
>stack triggered abilities in AP-NAP order and his (NAP) resolve first?

Well, yes and no. Yes, his resolve before yours do. No, because his resolve
before yours do, so all of his resolve before you ever give him the MoW - he
doesn't, as you may be thinking, "get the chance to give it back partway
through". Though, as above, if he has a way to get a card into his graveyard
afterwards, you might be getting it back...

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On 27 Sep 2005 14:57:37 -0700, Hardtrack <hardtrack@gmail.com> wrote:
>It won't trigger if a card ends up in your graveyard while the Measure
>is controlled by your opponent, since no card is put into 'your'
>graveyard (you on the card being the controller).
>
>The last time to give it to your opponent without taking damage
>yourself is indeed in your post-combat main phase.

Not correct. The last chance(s) you get are -in response to- the
end-of-turn triggered ability; its second ability will trigger just fine
if a card goes into your graveyard in response.

Doing so at that point won't stop the ability from resolving, of course -
you'll lose the 8 life. However, you won't take any DAMAGE; MoW doesn't say
it causes damage to anyone at all.

>A cool trick though is to (if they control Measure) kill something in
>their end of turn step, after the Measure has triggered. Their creature
>(or whatever you destroyed) will go to their graveyard, triggering the
>donate ability and you will gain control of it when that resolves, then
>the damage ability will resolve and deal them eight damage,

There is NO "damage ability" here. There is an ability that'll make them lose
8 life; that does NOT deal any damage to them, it just changes their life
total. No Circle: Black can stop this, as it's not damage; no Healing Salve
can prevent this.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

David DeLaney wrote:
> On 27 Sep 2005 11:13:38 -0700, Risser <knucklehead000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Also, am I correct in surmising that, should I play some sort of
> >board-clearer on my turn that wipes both my own permanents and my
> >opponent's permanents, that he would end up with the Measure because we
> >stack triggered abilities in AP-NAP order and his (NAP) resolve first?
>
> Well, yes and no. Yes, his resolve before yours do. No, because his resolve
> before yours do, so all of his resolve before you ever give him the MoW - he
> doesn't, as you may be thinking, "get the chance to give it back partway
> through". Though, as above, if he has a way to get a card into his graveyard
> afterwards, you might be getting it back...

His what? MoW triggers for each card put into *your* graveyard. No
APNAP is involved. Just AP (or just NAP).

--
David

 

[RisseR]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Oh yeah. Duh.
Sorry.
Peter

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

David de Kloet <dskloet@gmail.com> wrote:
>David DeLaney wrote:
>> On 27 Sep 2005 11:13:38 -0700, Risser <knucklehead000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >Also, am I correct in surmising that, should I play some sort of
>> >board-clearer on my turn that wipes both my own permanents and my
>> >opponent's permanents, that he would end up with the Measure because we
>> >stack triggered abilities in AP-NAP order and his (NAP) resolve first?
>>
>> Well, yes and no. Yes, his resolve before yours do. No, because his resolve
>> before yours do, so all of his resolve before you ever give him the MoW - he
>> doesn't, as you may be thinking, "get the chance to give it back partway
>> through". Though, as above, if he has a way to get a card into his graveyard
>> afterwards, you might be getting it back...
>
>His what? MoW triggers for each card put into *your* graveyard. No
>APNAP is involved. Just AP (or just NAP).

Oh, duh, right.

Though it becomes relevant if _both_ of you have an MoW - as might well
happen if _one_ of you is playing a MoW deck, since it's not legendary or
anything.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.