Sliver bidding.... please critique

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

Greetings, All--

Here's another slightly off-the-wall type II deck I've been working
on. Please let me know any suggestions you may have....

Sliver Bidding

4x Crypt Sliver
3x Spectral Sliver
4x Toxin Sliver
3x Hunter Sliver
4x Blade Sliver
3x Magma Sliver

2x Aether Vial
2x Soul Foundry
2x Patriarch's Bidding
4x Shock
3x Dark Banishing/Terror/Smother
4x Shatter

4x Bloodstained Mire
9x Mountain
9x Swamp

Sideboard:
3x Sulfuric Vortex
3x Pyroclasm
3x Echoing Ruin
3x Scrabbling Claws
3x ?????

The meta game at my shop is pretty average (I think) Ravager/Atog
Affinity and Goblin/Goblin Bidding are probably the most popular, and
there are several guys running other well known decks: Astral Slide,
Tooth and Nail, and Cemetary Gate are all played.

Question 1: What do you think is a better choice out of Terror, Dark
Banishing, or Smother? I'm leaning towards Dark Banishing, as it is
useful against big meanies (Silvos and Exalted Angel are popular) as
well as assorted artifact creatures.

Question 2: How many Biddings/Foundries/Vials should I run? (Right
now, I'm basing the decklist around the cards I have.) Should I up
the number of one or two, and move the rest to the sideboard? In
particular, I'm wondering just how well the vials "fit" with the deck.

Question 3: Any other ideas for the sideboard or the deck in general?

Thanks for any help.

Scott

 

[Doyle]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

sfvajdos@hotmail.com (Scott Vajdos) wrote in message news:<42d15bb3.0405210646.589088b5@posting.google.com>...

I've listed the casting costs for your spells:

> Sliver Bidding
>
> 4x Crypt Sliver B1
> 3x Spectral Sliver B2
> 4x Toxin Sliver B3
> 3x Hunter Sliver R1
> 4x Blade Sliver R2
> 3x Magma Sliver R3
>
> 2x Aether Vial 1
> 2x Soul Foundry 4
> 2x Patriarch's Bidding BB3
> 4x Shock R
> 3x Dark Banishing/Terror/Smother B2/B1/B1
> 4x Shatter R1
>
> 4x Bloodstained Mire
> 9x Mountain
> 9x Swamp
>
> Sideboard:
> 3x Sulfuric Vortex RR1
> 3x Pyroclasm R1
> 3x Echoing Ruin R1
> 3x Scrabbling Claws 2?
> 3x ????? ???


> Question 1: What do you think is a better choice out of Terror, Dark
> Banishing, or Smother?

I would go with Terror.

> Question 2: How many Biddings/Foundries/Vials should I run?

I would go with more vials since you don't have many one drops.

> Question 3: Any other ideas for the sideboard or the deck in general?

Since you are talking about a metagame, I'm assuming that this isn't
entirely designed around being fun. You need to speed up your deck
significantly. I would suggest adding Chrome Moxes and Talismans at
the very least. Your deck has 6 one drops counting shock as a one
drop. You may want to add some goblin prospectors as a sacrificeable
mana boost.

Against the decks that you are talking about, are you control or
beatdown?

mypetrock

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

mypetrock@yahoo.com (Doyle) wrote in message news:<73d1ee6b.0405211119.3fde638f@posting.google.com>...
> sfvajdos@hotmail.com (Scott Vajdos) wrote in message news:<42d15bb3.0405210646.589088b5@posting.google.com>...
>
> I've listed the casting costs for your spells:
>
> > Sliver Bidding
> >
> > 4x Crypt Sliver B1
> > 3x Spectral Sliver B2
> > 4x Toxin Sliver B3
> > 3x Hunter Sliver R1
> > 4x Blade Sliver R2
> > 3x Magma Sliver R3
> >
> > 2x Aether Vial 1
> > 2x Soul Foundry 4
> > 2x Patriarch's Bidding BB3
> > 4x Shock R
> > 3x Dark Banishing/Terror/Smother B2/B1/B1
> > 4x Shatter R1
> >
> > 4x Bloodstained Mire
> > 9x Mountain
> > 9x Swamp
> >
> > Sideboard:
> > 3x Sulfuric Vortex RR1
> > 3x Pyroclasm R1
> > 3x Echoing Ruin R1
> > 3x Scrabbling Claws 2?
> > 3x ????? ???
>
>
> > Question 1: What do you think is a better choice out of Terror, Dark
> > Banishing, or Smother?
>
> I would go with Terror.
>
> > Question 2: How many Biddings/Foundries/Vials should I run?
>
> I would go with more vials since you don't have many one drops.
>
> > Question 3: Any other ideas for the sideboard or the deck in general?
>
> Since you are talking about a metagame, I'm assuming that this isn't
> entirely designed around being fun. You need to speed up your deck
> significantly. I would suggest adding Chrome Moxes and Talismans at
> the very least. Your deck has 6 one drops counting shock as a one
> drop. You may want to add some goblin prospectors as a sacrificeable
> mana boost.

That's correct--I'm trying to make a tourney deck. Maybe a bit of
history is in order. I put this deck together originally during the
onslaught block. It came about because me and a guy at the local card
shop were having a rather heated discussion about net-decking. His
argument was that *everyone* net-decked, and so the ONLY way to win
was to net-deck. Whereas I was (and still am) of the opinion that if
you can't put together a semi-original deck that can win a decent
chunk (say, 40-50%) of its games, then you ought to have a less
intellectual hobby. So he challenged me to put together a deck
different than what was popular at the time.

The sliver deck is what I came up with. Originally, it ran 4 of each
sliver, some black removal, shocks, and oversold cemeteries. And it
did well--surprisingly so. If I remember correctly, I went 2-1 at
Friday night magic, which was enough to put me into the final eight,
where I lost in the final match to a damned Psychatog deck.

When Mirrodin came out, I tweaked it more into a casual deck
(especially since I traded away the cemeteries.) Now I'd like to make
it into a more competive deck again.

>
> Against the decks that you are talking about, are you control or
> beatdown?
>

It's decidedly more control than anything else. Basically, the crypt
slivers and removal are to help stem any early rushes, allowing me to
find other slivers--most importantly toxin sliver and hunter sliver.
What this allows me to do is take out more-or-less any
creature--thanks to provoke and the destroy ability of the toxin
sliver. Once this is going, I stall until I get a Magma sliver or
two, then I attack and pump. Understand that I know I'm going to lose
life until I get my lines established.

You have to understand, one of the reasons I think this deck does
reasonably well (at least where I play) is that very few people really
know how to play against it.

Maybe eliminate the soul foundries, add another aether vial or two,
and move the shatters to the sideboard, replacing them with the
red/black talismans....

Thanks for your suggestions.

Scott

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

> > > Sliver Bidding
> > >
> > > 4x Crypt Sliver B1
> > > 3x Spectral Sliver B2
> > > 4x Toxin Sliver B3
> > > 3x Hunter Sliver R1
> > > 4x Blade Sliver R2
> > > 3x Magma Sliver R3
> > >
> > > 2x Aether Vial 1
> > > 2x Soul Foundry 4
> > > 2x Patriarch's Bidding BB3
> > > 4x Shock R
> > > 3x Dark Banishing/Terror/Smother B2/B1/B1
> > > 4x Shatter R1
> > >
> > > 4x Bloodstained Mire
> > > 9x Mountain
> > > 9x Swamp
> > >
> > > Sideboard:
> > > 3x Sulfuric Vortex RR1
> > > 3x Pyroclasm R1
> > > 3x Echoing Ruin R1
> > > 3x Scrabbling Claws 2?
> > > 3x ????? ???

I had a friend who played a Type two Sliver deck. He also got stuck
in the control position but played a four color deck to get the
slivers that could deal with it. Brood Sliver gave him blockers,
Essence Sliver got him out of fireball range, Ward sliver for many
reasons but mostly red burn, Synapse sliver for card advantage, and
Shifting sliver for unblockability. He also ran Darksteel ignot and
Explosive vegetation for mana fixing and Tribal unity for a big
finish. He ran the Cyrpt and Toxin slivers too but skipped red except
fot the sliver overlord. Your R/B build is cool but I think that his
was better at playing the control position.

Assuming you are not changing your mana base do ditch the scrabbling
claws for withered wretches, much more utility. And I personally like
dark banishing more. The new fifth dawn artifact that sacs itself to
find a basic land could also be good for this deck. Hope some of this
helps

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

zelf_gale@yahoo.com (zelf gale) wrote in message news:<d22e8440.0405221658.6868ca70@posting.google.com>...
> > > > Sliver Bidding
> > > >
> > > > 4x Crypt Sliver B1
> > > > 3x Spectral Sliver B2
> > > > 4x Toxin Sliver B3
> > > > 3x Hunter Sliver R1
> > > > 4x Blade Sliver R2
> > > > 3x Magma Sliver R3
> > > >
> > > > 2x Aether Vial 1
> > > > 2x Soul Foundry 4
> > > > 2x Patriarch's Bidding BB3
> > > > 4x Shock R
> > > > 3x Dark Banishing/Terror/Smother B2/B1/B1
> > > > 4x Shatter R1
> > > >
> > > > 4x Bloodstained Mire
> > > > 9x Mountain
> > > > 9x Swamp
> > > >
> > > > Sideboard:
> > > > 3x Sulfuric Vortex RR1
> > > > 3x Pyroclasm R1
> > > > 3x Echoing Ruin R1
> > > > 3x Scrabbling Claws 2?
> > > > 3x ????? ???
>
> I had a friend who played a Type two Sliver deck. He also got stuck
> in the control position but played a four color deck to get the
> slivers that could deal with it. Brood Sliver gave him blockers,
> Essence Sliver got him out of fireball range, Ward sliver for many
> reasons but mostly red burn, Synapse sliver for card advantage, and
> Shifting sliver for unblockability. He also ran Darksteel ignot and
> Explosive vegetation for mana fixing and Tribal unity for a big
> finish. He ran the Cyrpt and Toxin slivers too but skipped red except
> fot the sliver overlord. Your R/B build is cool but I think that his
> was better at playing the control position.

Wow. A four color sliver deck seem rather... reaching to me. At
least in type II. Whereas I can easily see how he had answers for
everything, Toxin and Essence sliver both have a CC of 4, and Brood,
Ward, and Synapse Sliver all have CCs of 5. That must have been slow
as heck, on average. Which leads me to ask, was this a tourney deck?
If so, what was the approximate winning percentage?

And as far as the control aspect of the R/B build, don't get me wrong.
I built it trying to be as aggressive as possible. But the popular
type II decks right now are just so frelling fast, I often have to
fall back to a control-type position, at least for the opening rush.
The fate of my games with the old R/B build often hinged on the first
couple of turns. If I had a low CC sliver (crypt was especially good)
or some creature removal in the opening draw, with at least one other
sliver to back it up, I would do well, most of the time. Even against
something as aggressive as goblins. But I have no clue what would
happen vs. affinity.

>
> Assuming you are not changing your mana base do ditch the scrabbling
> claws for withered wretches, much more utility. And I personally like
> dark banishing more. The new fifth dawn artifact that sacs itself to
> find a basic land could also be good for this deck. Hope some of this
> helps

Doh! Good call on the Wretch. I also run an elf deck, and my only
way to end graveyard manipulation with it is to use the claws. I've
played with that deck so much lately that I didn't even think about
the wretch.

Thanks!

Scott

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

> Wow. A four color sliver deck seem rather... reaching to me. At
> least in type II. Whereas I can easily see how he had answers for
> everything, Toxin and Essence sliver both have a CC of 4, and Brood,
> Ward, and Synapse Sliver all have CCs of 5. That must have been slow
> as heck, on average. Which leads me to ask, was this a tourney deck?
> If so, what was the approximate winning percentage?

Believe or not his mana ratios worked very well. He ran the Darksteel
Ignot and Explosive Vegetation for the mana fixing and I think I
remember a Talisman or two in a build. This deck was pre-Darksteel so
Ravager hadn't made it necessary to be incredibly fast. But it did
win a fair amount against other Type 2 decks at the time (after
Mirridon's release). It was meant for tournament play. Land
Destruction was the deck he loved to hate playing against. Anything
else didn't do well against him after he started gaining life with
multiplying, card drawing, unblockable, pro-color of his choice
slivers.

 

[clayton]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

"Scott Vajdos" <sfvajdos@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42d15bb3.0405210646.589088b5@posting.google.com...
> Greetings, All--
>
> Here's another slightly off-the-wall type II deck I've been working
> on. Please let me know any suggestions you may have....
>
> Sliver Bidding
>
> 4x Crypt Sliver
> 3x Spectral Sliver
> 4x Toxin Sliver
> 3x Hunter Sliver
> 4x Blade Sliver
> 3x Magma Sliver
>
> 2x Aether Vial
> 2x Soul Foundry
> 2x Patriarch's Bidding
> 4x Shock
> 3x Dark Banishing/Terror/Smother
> 4x Shatter
>
> 4x Bloodstained Mire
> 9x Mountain
> 9x Swamp
>
> Sideboard:
> 3x Sulfuric Vortex
> 3x Pyroclasm
> 3x Echoing Ruin
> 3x Scrabbling Claws
> 3x ?????

First of all ... ooh, Slivers ...

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

> The meta game at my shop is pretty average (I think) Ravager/Atog
> Affinity and Goblin/Goblin Bidding are probably the most popular, and
> there are several guys running other well known decks: Astral Slide,
> Tooth and Nail, and Cemetary Gate are all played.
>
> Question 1: What do you think is a better choice out of Terror, Dark
> Banishing, or Smother? I'm leaning towards Dark Banishing, as it is
> useful against big meanies (Silvos and Exalted Angel are popular) as
> well as assorted artifact creatures.

Probably Terror unless you're dealing with a lot of artifact and black
creatures that Terror can't target.

> Question 2: How many Biddings/Foundries/Vials should I run? (Right
> now, I'm basing the decklist around the cards I have.) Should I up
> the number of one or two, and move the rest to the sideboard? In
> particular, I'm wondering just how well the vials "fit" with the deck.

Well, since all your stuff costs either 2, 3, or 4, I would think 3 Vials
would be a good number. However I have no experience in using the
three cards you mentioned.

> Question 3: Any other ideas for the sideboard or the deck in general?

Well Withered Wretch has been mentionned to destroy graveyards.

Perhaps if you were willing to alter the mana base or something, you
could try Purge (Kills black or Artifact Creatures) or Naturalize to
neutralize some of the threats of Affinity. You have Shatter and Echoing
Ruin to kill artifacts already, so I don't fully know what else to suggest
on that front

(Also if you do alter the mana base to accomodate, you can sneak in
a Sliver or two of the splashed colours as a defense)

You have Pyroclasm (in SB) to deal with Goblins. Only other things I can
think of are Flamebreak and Tremor. Tremor might not be enough to
kill the goblins and Flamebreaks triple red and no regenerating might
make it hurt your deck more.

Stabalizer would slow down the Slide decks as they need to get
rid of the pesky artifact before they can cycle stuff again

For Tooth and Nail, probably would be fine with the creature removal
as the creatures would be too big to burn directly. Probably extra removal
or something that removes creatures from the game

Talismans had already been suggested, as has been Darksteel Ingot for
mana fixing. Mirrodin's Core would probably be too slow, since it
needs that extra turn to be able to generate coloured mana. Urborg
Volcano's CIP tapped would probably hurt more than help.

The real questions to ask would probably be:
1) What are you getting beaten by almost constantly (if anything)?
2) What cards seem useless the most?
3) What could thwart what's beating you?

> Thanks for any help.

No Problem. Though let us know what you decided on

-------
Clayton