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Best card for 440BX board?

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August 14, 2003 3:17:51 AM

Greetings all, and thanks for the wonderful info you folks provide. Longtime lurker, this is the first time I've felt the need to actually ask a question.

Ok. Here's my mobo:

Abit BX6.0 rev 2 (with PIII850 coppermine cpu, overclocks to about 1 ghz)

Current video card:

Asus 6800 Geforce Deluxe DDR, 32 mb (like the high end, first generation Geforce's).

Here are my questions:

1. Anyone else in a similar rig with a semi-modern card? (rhetorical question I guess, heh)

2. I'm seriously considering one of the Geforce Ti4xxx series. After reading CoolSquirtle's groovy thread, I am inclined to go for the 4200-64.

3. Voltage issues between the mobo and the agp. I was reading one of THW's fine editorials from about a year ago and noticed that there was some voltage issues with cards and mobos, particularly of the (then)newer 64mb cards and mobo's of this (440bx) generation.

4. DX9 support. How does this relate to current games, namely Starwar's Galaxies, those older cards and whatnot. From what I understand SWG needs DX9 to play, but I may be wrong.

5. Useability in an 875 chipset mobo. Important because I plan on building an 875 system in the somewhat near future (like 6 mos or so), and would like to use this card in it until the $500 cards (today's price) are cut in half or so.

Anyways, thanks for any info...

Abu Safi

BTW CoolSquirtle -- Groovy post^^

More about : card 440bx board

August 14, 2003 5:05:14 AM

radeon 9500...supports all of the above..

ordered it for my MSI 6163 pro...(440bx)...and it should be supported...

I will get it in 1 to 2 days...i will post back if i remember...if not PM me in a few days and i will let ya know...

make sure you have a good PSU...

The 4200 will do all of the above except direct X 9...but probably by the time DX9 games start comming out the 9500 will be out dated...

You could run up to a 9700pro on that system...maybe even a 9800...but i am not sure about the 9800...but am sure about the 9700...

DO NOT RUN A 9600...you will fry it AFAIK it does not support 3.3 volt signaling...have fun though...


Proud owner of DOS 3.3 :smile:
a b U Graphics card
August 14, 2003 5:44:16 AM

Your have a top quality board with a very powerfull chipset. I've used a Tualatin Celeron 1.1GHz overclocked to 1466MHz/133MHz bus on one of those boards, on an Upgradeware Slot-T (I've actually used several BX boards with that combination). It rocked, raising the bus speed on a Tualatin Celeron to 133MHz or higher is the key to performance.

1.) I've made several recommendations and spoken with several people who've followed them uneventfully

2.) All the Radeons except the 9600 series, and all the GeForce cards should be compatable.

3.) I've heard the 9600 series from ATI doesn't support 3.3v signals, which are probably too high for the lower voltage chip. Tom's ran a Radeon 9700 Pro on all types of boards for their CPU charts, so it's known to work with boards such as yours. The 9500 series is a cheaper version, and the 9800 series a more expensive version, with the same support for your board. All GeForce 4's support your board as well.

4.) You don't need a DX9 card to play DX9 games, you can install DX9 with older cards as well, but you loose some graphical features in the game. Ti4200-4800 are DX8, Radeons from 9500-9800, and GeForce FX cards, are DX9.

5.) 875P supports any modern AGP4x or AGP8x card.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
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August 14, 2003 7:22:17 AM

what is the max safe voltage for the tully?

Also what speed did you get yours to?


Proud owner of DOS 3.3 :smile:
a b U Graphics card
August 14, 2003 7:41:20 AM

I got mine to 1650MHz at 1.95v. And the max safe voltage is 1.70v. 1.75v can be safe on some, but has been known to damage others, each processor being just a little different from another.

1650MHz was just for testing, I only had it that way for 3 minutes.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
August 14, 2003 7:54:51 AM

i ordered a cheepo falcon rock heatsink...i have heard they are good and quiet for the money...

Cooling the tualatin should be no problem right? They run nice and cool...

Was it stable at 1650? That was a celery 1.1 on 150mhz fsb?


Proud owner of DOS 3.3 :smile:
a b U Graphics card
August 14, 2003 8:42:08 AM

Yes, it was stable, but at unsafe voltage! Don't do it!

I thought you were getting a Retail Boxed Tualatin Celeron? They do run cool. In fact, I once undervolted mine to 1.30v and used a large Pentium passive heatsink.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
August 14, 2003 1:58:35 PM

Wow, thanks for the very fast replies and good info, both Crashman and PIII...

Yeah, I'm pretty impressed with the life I've gotten out of this board, its four years old and the performance is still decent. My success with this board is precisely why I have my eyes set on an Abit IC7 (G, Ultra Max or some flavor thereof) for my 875 system. Gonna wait a few months for the prices to come down a little and my bank to go up though.

I do need a new PSU, right now I'm using a 250w, it was one of the issues if I got a new video card.

Crashman... you used a 1.1ghz chip in a BX6r2? For some reason, I got the notion that my 850mhz chip was about as high as I could push it...
August 14, 2003 3:05:58 PM

nope...i am getting 1 too...upgradeware sells a slocket that lets you use a tualatin PPGA (fcpga2) cpu in a Slot 1 mobo...

the slocket is 20bux and a 1.1ghz celeron is 50 dollars...

It is a great way to breath new life into a bx board...

Keep in mind this is a special slocket...not all will work with a tualatin core cpu...only slockets ment to be used for tullys..


Proud owner of DOS 3.3 :smile:
a b U Graphics card
August 14, 2003 10:31:44 PM

Most BX board owners are in your position, because the board manufactures lied. But to say they lied is a bit harsh for what really happened.

Most manufacturers quit updating the CPU support information on their website when the board is no longer a current product. That means that whatever speeds come out after that are no longer tested. Hence, many Asus boards said they only supported up to a PIII 700E, even though the 850E is the same processor with a higher multiplier, and the multiplier is built into the chip.

Further complicating things is that Intel's regular Slot 1 Coppermines with 100MHz bus only went as high as 850MHz. There was a 1000E, but this was a rare upgrade processor Intel marketed towards servers, so it isn't mentioned. Also not mentioned are the 133MHz bus processors, because even though 133MHz is supported by your board, it's not an officialy supported bus speed for your chipset.

But none of that matters, all Coppermine, 133MHz bus supporting BX boards could support all PIII's up to the 1000EB (7.5x133). And tualatin adapters allow you to use even faster Tualatin processors, even the PIII 1400 server CPU with 512k cache. You see, there isn't a max CPU speed for ANY board.

Now, the PIII 1400 still cost over $150, which is why I suggest the Tualatin Celeron 1.1GHz, overclocked to 1466MHz/133MHz FSB, as a cost effective alternative. I specifically recomend the 1.1GHz version because it's extremely likely to support the 133MHz bus speed overclock.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
August 15, 2003 12:49:19 AM

Crashman, your posts have been incredibly informative, thanks much.

Here is the tentative solution for my upgrade issues, until I build the 875 rig I'm currently dreaming about. I don't mind spending a few hundred bucks for the next half year or so on this seemingly meager upgrade.

1. Gig of pc133 sdram. Have been wanting to do this forever heh, now is a good time it seems. Right now I have 256mb, a stick of pc100 and a stick of 133. Gonna drop them both for 4x256mb sticks of pc133.

$29 x 4= $116

2. Snag the Tualatin Celeron 1.1 like you mentioned. I saw an OEM version on Pricewatch for like $42. The retail boxed version from GoogleGear is $49.

1.1 Celeron - $49

3. Still kind of undecided on the videocard (heh that was the main reason for this post). However, after the great feedback on this thread, and perusing through about 30 pages of posts, I have tentatively decided on the Radeon 9500 non-pro.

Reasoning:

a. Almost any card is an upgrade over my current one.
b. Omega drivers? Unlock the other 4 pipelines and make it a 9700 non-pro? The question is, how feasible is this?
c. I've never had an ATI vpu yet.
d. Really want to experience the AA and AF, and the Ti4200 doesn't offer it.

Quite possibly will go with the FX5600. Hell, I might even say "What the hell" and get the FX5600 Ultra Rev 2, although I'd be considerably over my subject-to-change budget. The reason I'd do this is because I'd like to use this in the 875 system, possibly for a decent period of time 'til the currently uber-badarse ones are a decent price.

I dunno about the v-card yet... its pretty much a toss-up with some perhaps impulse decision making.

Radeon 9500NP - $133.
FX5600 Ultra Rev2 - $218 (GoogleGear, flip-chip OC'd out of the box to 900mhz memory clock).

4. 400watt PWS - $15

Upgrade with Radeon9500 non-pro = $313.
Upgrade with FX5600 Ultra rev 2 = $397.

Comments or suggestions very much appreciated :) 

-Abu Safi
August 15, 2003 12:53:45 AM

Crashman is Toms' recognised P3-copperimine-tulatin expert. :smile:

<b>Regards,
Mr no integrity coward.</b>
a b U Graphics card
August 15, 2003 6:33:21 AM

1. That sounds fine, I recommend Crucial. Read the first post in the Motherboard's forum to see the restrictions for BX memory, or just use Crucial's guide for your motherboard.

2.) You'll need a Tualatin adapter, I recommend the Upgradeware Slot-T because it's cheap, durable, and provides hardware voltage manipulation. It's $20, check <A HREF="http://www.upgradeware.com" target="_new">http://www.upgradeware.com&lt;/A> for distibutors.

3.) The 9500 non-Pro is a little weak, but you can modify nearly any 9500 Non-Pro to 9500 Pro with a driver hack, swhichis included in the Omega drivers. Also, you can modify some older 9500 non-pro 128MB cards to 9700 non-pro specs with the same hack.

4.) I'd be a little scared of a $15 power supply claiming to be 400W.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
August 15, 2003 7:24:10 AM

the bx has a 768mb ram limitation...so 1 gig will not work out...

I would highly recomend against an r300 based gpu...AFAIK it will not take much over a 74mhz agp bus...i dunno if crashman has had diffrent experiences...but to me it seems like my card is extremely touchy to bus speeds...


Proud owner of DOS 3.3 :smile:
August 15, 2003 2:54:04 PM

pIII man - actually my board <A HREF="http://www.hardware-one.com/reviews.asp?aid=93&page=2" target="_new">does support</A> up to 1 gig of ram, it was one of the specs that kinda wow'd me when I was looking at the board in 1999 - I thought, "Wow, why would I ever need a *gig* of RAM?".

Thanks for the additional tips.

A few more questions actually, then I think I'll be done pestering you guys heh...

1. RAM - ECC or non-ECC? This topic has always been a little fuzzy for me.

2. I already have a slotket adapter for my fcpga pIII to fit into my slot I. How will the Upgradeware Slot-T adapter work with this, or is its implementation self-evident?

3. Cooling issues with the board running at 133 FSB. Anything I should worry about?

Thanks again..

-Abu Safi
August 15, 2003 3:27:10 PM

One thing to check is if the AGP slot will support a AGP 2 or later video card as I recall from my own bx board that was an issue you may have to switch to a PCI based video card. (I don't think it would be much of an upgrade)
August 15, 2003 4:17:48 PM

You can't lose with a cheap Ti4200, but if you're a gambling man get a 9500 non-pro and see if the softmod works to turn it into a 9500 PRO (or maybe even a 9700).

Even if the softmod doesn't work, you can overclock it well and get great performance out of it...

------------------
Radeon 9500 w/256 bit memory bus @ 367/310
AMD AthlonXP 2000+
3dMark03: 3439
August 15, 2003 5:18:13 PM

I was so hopped up on caffeine the other night I soft modded the carmel rice cake I was eating into Geforce2 GTS Ti :tongue:

PS: You should see the fps I get on UTGOTY :) 

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<font color=green>Homer Simpson</font color=green>

TKS
August 15, 2003 7:39:19 PM

1. Non ecc...ecc makes your computer a tad slower...and is unecissary for a desktop computer...

2.The slot T is its own slocket...a normal slocket will not work...since the tualatin cores have some changed pin assignments....

3. No cooling issues...i have a thermal diode on my chipset...it never goes above 45c...and that is around 140mhz fsb with a .1v increase in chipset voltage...

I did not relise the he BX6 had found a way around the ram limitation...

Before you buy a graphics card make sure that it can respond well to high agp buses...i have heard good things about the ti4200 and an elevated agp bus...


Proud owner of DOS 3.3 :smile:
a b U Graphics card
August 15, 2003 9:56:44 PM

The BX6 didn't find a way around the RAM limitation, there is no workaround. It supports 256MB/slot the same as any other standard BX board. It's probably just one of the boards that happens to have all 4 slots!

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
a b U Graphics card
August 15, 2003 10:02:08 PM

Yes, BX chipsets support up to 4 modules, some boards had all 4 slots while others had 3 (or even 2). Each slot supports up to 256MB via a 16-chip double sided DIMM.

The 256MB/slot limit is due to the thing only supporting 16MB or smaller chips on the module, and the module only supporting up to 16 chips, 8 per side.

1.) Non ECC, if you want to make sure you get the right RAM, buy it from Crucial's website using their memory selector.

2.) Your old slotket doesn't support Tualatins because of the new pin assignments, the Slot-T is a slotket with Tualatin support, otherwise similar to the Abit Slotket !!!.

3.) Nothing to worry about, I usually put a dab of heatsink paste under the northbridge sink out of habit. That heatsink has no paste from the factory and does very little without paste.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
!