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here's my 'new' deck

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Anonymous
July 9, 2004 2:14:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

lands

11 mountains
10 plains

2 destroy target creature - gain life equal to its power
4 target player loses 5 life
3 life burst (+4 life - gain 4 more for each in your graveyard)
1 mirari (copy spell)
1 percullus (if more than 2 creatures out, no more can come into play)
3 target player loses 4 life
1 gain 3 life, draw a card
2 deal X damage to target player
2 when this 3/3 flying creature comes into play, gain 3 life
1 add 4 life. if opponent has more life then you, put card back in hand
1 target player -4 life. if player has more life than you, put card back in
hand
2 deal 3 damage to all opponents
2 when 3/3 creature is put into graveyard, add 3 life
1 (tap 1 untaps, tap +2 add a life, tap +3 untap a creature, tap+4 tap a
creature, tap +5 draw card)
1 whenever player successfully casts a spell, costs 2 life
1 target player doubles life
1 bid life to control creature
2 destroy all creatures
1 destroy all artifacts. player loses X life where X is the amount of
artifacts destroyed.


i can't recall them all, because i just added a bunch to my sidebar, but can
anyone think of something i'm missing? i've been very successful with this
deck so far. i can hit for so much life, while building myself up to
sustain attacks, and to often sustain attacks, AND draw mana.
i've been winning because no one can hit me for enough life. i've been as
high as 102 life in a 3 player game. i won today with only 2 life left by
topdecking '2 + mountain = target player loses 4 life' and having enough
mana to nail him out from 16. was a great victory.

anyone else seen a deck like this one? i know my deck is half based on the
lighting bolt and red damage stuff, but coupled with the healing powers of
white, it really really rocks.

i've only been playing for a month or so, but my friend has thousands of
cards. anyone see any glaring holes?

More about : deck

Anonymous
July 9, 2004 2:46:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

SPIDERMAN <spiderman@genius.com> sent:
> lands

> 11 mountains
> 10 plains

It is very helpful to tell us the names of the cards you're using,
rather than paraphrasing the effect of the card. Magic is a very
nitpicky game when it comes to how the card text is written. If you
need to describe a card's text, it's probably best to grab the
information from Oracle:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dci/oracle

Most of the time, people are familiar enough with the cards - especially
cards that are legal in Standard tournaments - that you don't need to
say what the card does. I'm going to try and guess what all these cards
are:

> 2 destroy target creature - gain life equal to its power

Chastise {3}{W} Instant
/ Destroy target attacking creature. You gain life equal to its power.

This one? Only works on attacking creatures.

> 4 target player loses 5 life

Hmm, if you actually mean that literally:

Kaervek's Spite {B}{B}{B} Instant
/ As an additional cost to play Kaervek's Spite, sacrifice all
permanents you control and discard your hand.
/ Target player loses 5 life.

However, given that you have mountains in the deck and not swamps, that's
unlikely. Maybe this instead?

Lava Axe {4}{R} Sorcery
/ Lava Axe deals 5 damage to target player.

Note that damage and losing life aren't exactly the same thing. When
damage is dealt to a player, it usually causes that player to lose
life (but not always).

> 3 life burst (+4 life - gain 4 more for each in your graveyard)
> 1 mirari (copy spell)
> 1 percullus (if more than 2 creatures out, no more can come into play)

Portcullis {4} Artifact
/ Whenever a creature comes into play, if there are two or more other
creatures in play, remove that creature from the game.
/ When Portcullis leaves play, return to play under their owners'
control all creatures removed from the game with Portcullis.

> 3 target player loses 4 life

Again, this is probably a damage-dealing card. Hmm, there are lots
of cards that achieve 4 damage in some way...

Fireblast {4}{R}{R} Instant
/ You may sacrifice two Mountains rather than pay Fireblast's mana cost.
/ Fireblast deals 4 damage to target creature or player.

> 1 gain 3 life, draw a card

Reviving Dose {2}{W} Instant
/ You gain 3 life.
/ Draw a card.

> 2 deal X damage to target player

There are many of this kind of spell...

Blaze {X}{R} Sorcery
/ Blaze deals X damage to target creature or player.

> 2 when this 3/3 flying creature comes into play, gain 3 life

Angel of Mercy {4}{W} Creature -- Angel 3/3
/ Flying
/ When Angel of Mercy comes into play, you gain 3 life.

> 1 add 4 life. if opponent has more life then you, put card back in hand

Pulse of the Fields {1}{W}{W} Instant
/ You gain 4 life. Then if an opponent has more life than you, return
Pulse of the Fields to its owner's hand.

> 1 target player -4 life. if player has more life than you, put card back in
> hand

Pulse of the Forge {1}{R}{R} Instant
/ Pulse of the Forge deals 4 damage to target player. Then if that
player has more life than you, return Pulse of the Forge to its
owner's hand.

This one? It's definitely damage, not life loss.

> 2 deal 3 damage to all opponents

Sizzle {2}{R} Sorcery
/ Sizzle deals 3 damage to each opponent.

> 2 when 3/3 creature is put into graveyard, add 3 life

Anodet Lurker {5} Artifact Creature 3/3
/ When Anodet Lurker is put into a graveyard from play, you gain 3 life.

> 1 (tap 1 untaps, tap +2 add a life, tap +3 untap a creature, tap+4 tap a
> creature, tap +5 draw card)

Staff of Domination {3} Artifact
/ {1}: Untap Staff of Domination.
/ {2}, {T}: You gain 1 life.
/ {3}, {T}: Untap target creature.
/ {4}, {T}: Tap target creature.
/ {5}, {T}: Draw a card.

> 1 whenever player successfully casts a spell, costs 2 life

Spellshock {2}{R} Enchantment
/ Whenever a player plays a spell, Spellshock deals 2 damage to that
player.

There are a couple that are similar, but this is closest. Remember,
it's only for spells, not for abilities, and it's damage, not life.

> 1 target player doubles life

Beacon of Immortality {5}{W} Instant
/ Double target player's life total. Shuffle Beacon of Immortality into
its owner's library.

Don't forget the 'shuffle' part...

> 1 bid life to control creature

Illicit Auction {3}{R}{R} Sorcery
/ Each player may bid life for control of target creature. You begin the
bidding at 0. In turn order, each player may top the high bid. The
auction ends if the high bid stands. The high bidder loses life equal
to the high bid and gains control of the creature.

This one?

> 2 destroy all creatures

Wrath of God {2}{W}{W} Sorcery
/ Destroy all creatures. They can't be regenerated.

This is closest - remember that it stops them from regenerating.

> 1 destroy all artifacts. player loses X life where X is the amount of
> artifacts destroyed.

Builder's Bane {X}{X}{R} Sorcery
/ Destroy X target artifacts. Builder's Bane deals to each player damage
equal to the number of artifacts he or she controlled destroyed this
way.

Not sure exactly which one you mean, this is reasonably close, but it's
a bit old.

> i can't recall them all, because i just added a bunch to my sidebar,

Sideboard?

> but can
> anyone think of something i'm missing? i've been very successful with this
> deck so far. i can hit for so much life, while building myself up to
> sustain attacks, and to often sustain attacks, AND draw mana.

The deck is doing two big things - dealing damage, and gaining life.
A lot of the damage is from spells rather than creatures - the deck really
doesn't have many creatures at all. This seems to run against having
Spellshock in the deck, although that can be fun if you find your one
Pulse of the Forge. There are a lot of one-of cards in the deck, which
makes it feel as though it's rather diluted. Not sure what you mean
by 'draw mana'.

> i've been winning because no one can hit me for enough life. i've been as
> high as 102 life in a 3 player game. i won today with only 2 life left by
> topdecking '2 + mountain = target player loses 4 life' and having enough
> mana to nail him out from 16. was a great victory.

Being on 2 life and not being slapped on the head with some damage from
somewhere would suggest to me that your opponents aren't playing with
particularly responsive decks.

> anyone else seen a deck like this one? i know my deck is half based on the
> lighting bolt

Lightning Bolt {R} Instant
/ Lightning Bolt deals 3 damage to target creature or player.

You didn't mention anything like this in your list above, is that in
there as well?

> and red damage stuff, but coupled with the healing powers of
> white, it really really rocks.

> i've only been playing for a month or so, but my friend has thousands of
> cards. anyone see any glaring holes?

It's a good mix of cards for a casual red-white build, and you seem to
be winning with it - is there something you're having trouble with? If
you're after more control, I've had success with this kind of deck
either by adding Fissure and Volcanic Geyser type cards, or by going
for four Spellshock and heading into Astral Slide territory with lots
of cycling cards. In a casual group, Spellshock usually leads to being
taken out first, though. :) 

It may be better if you play the deck through against a variety of
other decks, find things that you can't do, and then ask how to do
those things better?

Sorry there's been so many questions, but the post was a little vague...

--
-- zoe
Anonymous
July 9, 2004 6:03:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

"Zoe Stephenson" <zrs1@uk.ac.york.reversed> wrote in message
news:cclt32$1ck$1@pump1.york.ac.uk...
> SPIDERMAN <spiderman@genius.com> sent:
> > lands
>
> > 11 mountains
> > 10 plains
>
> It is very helpful to tell us the names of the cards you're using,
> rather than paraphrasing the effect of the card. Magic is a very
> nitpicky game when it comes to how the card text is written. If you
> need to describe a card's text, it's probably best to grab the
> information from Oracle:
>
> http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dci/oracle
>
> Most of the time, people are familiar enough with the cards - especially
> cards that are legal in Standard tournaments - that you don't need to
> say what the card does. I'm going to try and guess what all these cards
> are:
>
> > 2 destroy target creature - gain life equal to its power
>
> Chastise {3}{W} Instant
> / Destroy target attacking creature. You gain life equal to its power.
>
> This one? Only works on attacking creatures.

yes, that one. sorry, all of my cards i leave at my friends place so i
can't get the names straight.


>
> > 4 target player loses 5 life
>
> Hmm, if you actually mean that literally:
>
> Kaervek's Spite {B}{B}{B} Instant
> / As an additional cost to play Kaervek's Spite, sacrifice all
> permanents you control and discard your hand.
> / Target player loses 5 life.
>
> However, given that you have mountains in the deck and not swamps, that's
> unlikely. Maybe this instead?
>
> Lava Axe {4}{R} Sorcery
> / Lava Axe deals 5 damage to target player.
>
> Note that damage and losing life aren't exactly the same thing. When
> damage is dealt to a player, it usually causes that player to lose
> life (but not always).

yes. lava axe.


>
> > 3 life burst (+4 life - gain 4 more for each in your graveyard)
> > 1 mirari (copy spell)
> > 1 percullus (if more than 2 creatures out, no more can come into play)
>
> Portcullis {4} Artifact
> / Whenever a creature comes into play, if there are two or more other
> creatures in play, remove that creature from the game.
> / When Portcullis leaves play, return to play under their owners'
> control all creatures removed from the game with Portcullis.

yes, the portcullus.


>
> > 3 target player loses 4 life
>
> Again, this is probably a damage-dealing card. Hmm, there are lots
> of cards that achieve 4 damage in some way...
>
> Fireblast {4}{R}{R} Instant
> / You may sacrifice two Mountains rather than pay Fireblast's mana cost.
> / Fireblast deals 4 damage to target creature or player.


it's similar to the lava axe - no repercussions to me. just damage to
target player or creature.


>
> > 1 gain 3 life, draw a card
>
> Reviving Dose {2}{W} Instant
> / You gain 3 life.
> / Draw a card.
>
> > 2 deal X damage to target player
>
> There are many of this kind of spell...
>
> Blaze {X}{R} Sorcery
> / Blaze deals X damage to target creature or player.
>
> > 2 when this 3/3 flying creature comes into play, gain 3 life
>
> Angel of Mercy {4}{W} Creature -- Angel 3/3
> / Flying
> / When Angel of Mercy comes into play, you gain 3 life.
>
> > 1 add 4 life. if opponent has more life then you, put card back in hand
>
> Pulse of the Fields {1}{W}{W} Instant
> / You gain 4 life. Then if an opponent has more life than you, return
> Pulse of the Fields to its owner's hand.
>
> > 1 target player -4 life. if player has more life than you, put card
back in
> > hand
>
> Pulse of the Forge {1}{R}{R} Instant
> / Pulse of the Forge deals 4 damage to target player. Then if that
> player has more life than you, return Pulse of the Forge to its
> owner's hand.
>
> This one? It's definitely damage, not life loss.


i have a pulse of the forge and a pulse of the fields.

>
> > 2 deal 3 damage to all opponents
>
> Sizzle {2}{R} Sorcery
> / Sizzle deals 3 damage to each opponent.
>
> > 2 when 3/3 creature is put into graveyard, add 3 life
>
> Anodet Lurker {5} Artifact Creature 3/3
> / When Anodet Lurker is put into a graveyard from play, you gain 3 life.
>
> > 1 (tap 1 untaps, tap +2 add a life, tap +3 untap a creature, tap+4 tap a
> > creature, tap +5 draw card)
>
> Staff of Domination {3} Artifact
> / {1}: Untap Staff of Domination.
> / {2}, {T}: You gain 1 life.
> / {3}, {T}: Untap target creature.
> / {4}, {T}: Tap target creature.
> / {5}, {T}: Draw a card.


I LOVE THIS card. may put another in the deck.


>
> > 1 whenever player successfully casts a spell, costs 2 life
>
> Spellshock {2}{R} Enchantment
> / Whenever a player plays a spell, Spellshock deals 2 damage to that
> player.
>
> There are a couple that are similar, but this is closest. Remember,
> it's only for spells, not for abilities, and it's damage, not life.

yes, it's spellshock.

>
> > 1 target player doubles life
>
> Beacon of Immortality {5}{W} Instant
> / Double target player's life total. Shuffle Beacon of Immortality into
> its owner's library.
>
> Don't forget the 'shuffle' part...
>
> > 1 bid life to control creature
>
> Illicit Auction {3}{R}{R} Sorcery
> / Each player may bid life for control of target creature. You begin the
> bidding at 0. In turn order, each player may top the high bid. The
> auction ends if the high bid stands. The high bidder loses life equal
> to the high bid and gains control of the creature.
>
> This one?


yep.

>
> > 2 destroy all creatures
>
> Wrath of God {2}{W}{W} Sorcery
> / Destroy all creatures. They can't be regenerated.
>
> This is closest - remember that it stops them from regenerating.


sounds right. and very helpful as a friend is playing a rainbow deck with
some serious creatures with regen abilities.


>
> > 1 destroy all artifacts. player loses X life where X is the amount of
> > artifacts destroyed.
>
> Builder's Bane {X}{X}{R} Sorcery
> / Destroy X target artifacts. Builder's Bane deals to each player damage
> equal to the number of artifacts he or she controlled destroyed this
> way.
>
> Not sure exactly which one you mean, this is reasonably close, but it's
> a bit old.

yes, it's builders bane.


>
> > i can't recall them all, because i just added a bunch to my sidebar,
>
> Sideboard?
>

ummm... was drinking beer during our last game .


> > but can
> > anyone think of something i'm missing? i've been very successful with
this
> > deck so far. i can hit for so much life, while building myself up to
> > sustain attacks, and to often sustain attacks, AND draw mana.
>
> The deck is doing two big things - dealing damage, and gaining life.
> A lot of the damage is from spells rather than creatures - the deck really
> doesn't have many creatures at all. This seems to run against having
> Spellshock in the deck,

whenever anyone casts a spell, that includes summoning creatures, right?


> although that can be fun if you find your one
> Pulse of the Forge. There are a lot of one-of cards in the deck, which
> makes it feel as though it's rather diluted. Not sure what you mean
> by 'draw mana'.

odd, i'm rereading that sentence, and i'm not sure what i mean either. i
believe i'm referring to a few cards that are 2 + mountain that add 5
mountains to my mana pool.

thanks for the post. i'm curious about you saying it's diluted. i noticed
a lot of tourney decks generally have 4 of each card.


>
> > i've been winning because no one can hit me for enough life. i've been
as
> > high as 102 life in a 3 player game. i won today with only 2 life left
by
> > topdecking '2 + mountain = target player loses 4 life' and having enough
> > mana to nail him out from 16. was a great victory.
>
> Being on 2 life and not being slapped on the head with some damage from
> somewhere would suggest to me that your opponents aren't playing with
> particularly responsive decks.

end of the game, my last opponent had tapped out the turn before after
declaring a massive attack to eliminate the 3rd player from the game, and
get me to 2. he played it wrong. he thinks that smoking dope before a game
helps him play. i quietly disagree, but don't mind letting him go for it.
he makes mistakes just like that one every now and then.

>
> > anyone else seen a deck like this one? i know my deck is half based on
the
> > lighting bolt
>
> Lightning Bolt {R} Instant
> / Lightning Bolt deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
>
> You didn't mention anything like this in your list above, is that in
> there as well?

yes. 2 of them.


>
> > and red damage stuff, but coupled with the healing powers of
> > white, it really really rocks.
>
> > i've only been playing for a month or so, but my friend has thousands of
> > cards. anyone see any glaring holes?
>
> It's a good mix of cards for a casual red-white build, and you seem to
> be winning with it - is there something you're having trouble with? If
> you're after more control, I've had success with this kind of deck
> either by adding Fissure and Volcanic Geyser type cards, or by going
> for four Spellshock and heading into Astral Slide territory with lots
> of cycling cards. In a casual group, Spellshock usually leads to being
> taken out first, though. :) 
>
> It may be better if you play the deck through against a variety of
> other decks, find things that you can't do, and then ask how to do
> those things better?
>
> Sorry there's been so many questions, but the post was a little vague...

thank you for taking the time. very much obliged. i'm just getting into
the game, and am very hungry for new info. i was taught by scotland's 2nd
ranked player, but couldn't grasp everything he was showing me at the time.
what i'm having trouble with, depending on the deck, is people being able to
target my lands - ie. they know that white gives life, and red takes it
away, and they destroy target lands based on what my life is at. more
counter target spells i suppose. i also have trouble getting through the
first 2 or 3 turns without being able to get anything out to defend. my
friends just built decks based on getting huge creatures out fast, so i'm
getting hit quickly. i have some small creatures (a 1/1 that gives life
whenever a creatures come into play, i have a 2/2 that deals 2 damage on
coming out) but i feel a bit naked right away.

why do people have 4 of each card in their deck, instead of building them
like mine? my initial guess would be because you know what you're going to
get, you're not hoping for the mirari which is stuck on the bottom of the
deck. i can see how it works for a sliver deck, but for mine?

thanks


>
> --
> -- zoe
Related resources
Anonymous
July 9, 2004 8:16:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

SPIDERMAN <spiderman@genius.com> sent:

> "Zoe Stephenson" <zrs1@uk.ac.york.reversed> wrote in message
> news:cclt32$1ck$1@pump1.york.ac.uk...
>> SPIDERMAN <spiderman@genius.com> sent:

>> > but can
>> > anyone think of something i'm missing? i've been very successful with
> this
>> > deck so far. i can hit for so much life, while building myself up to
>> > sustain attacks, and to often sustain attacks, AND draw mana.
>>
>> The deck is doing two big things - dealing damage, and gaining life.
>> A lot of the damage is from spells rather than creatures - the deck really
>> doesn't have many creatures at all. This seems to run against having
>> Spellshock in the deck,

> whenever anyone casts a spell, that includes summoning creatures, right?

This might be a longwinded explanation, but I want to cover the finer
points of Spellshock and I'll have to use all the technical terms to
do it:

Playing a spell is one of the things you can do when you have priority.
You put the spell card on the stack, choose some of the essential
things like value of Xs or whether you're using Entwine, and pay the
cost. This is the 'usual' way of making things happen in Magic. Note
that there are other ways to get things to appear in play, though, by
being told to as the effect of a spell or ability. See, for instance:

Tooth and Nail {5}{G}{G} Sorcery
/ Choose one -- Search your library for up to two creature cards, reveal
them, put them into your hand, then shuffle your library; or put up to
two creature cards from your hand into play.
/ Entwine {2}

This is one spell, so the Spellshock will trigger when you play it. If
you use it to put creature cards into play, the Spellshock won't also
trigger for those cards, as they weren't ever spells, they just went
straight into play.

AEther Vial {1} Artifact
/ At the beginning of your upkeep, you may put a charge counter on
AEther Vial.
/ {T}: You may put a creature card with converted mana cost equal to the
number of charge counters on AEther Vial from your hand into play.

You'll take damage from Spellshock if you play the AEther Vial itself
after the Spellshock is in play. However, once you have the AEther
Vial in play, putting its activated ability on the stack isn't playing
a spell, so that won't trigger the Spellshock... and putting the card
into play isn't a spell either, so no triggering there.

Note that if you use something like:

Isochron Scepter {2} Artifact
/ Imprint -- When Isochron Scepter comes into play, you may remove an
instant card with converted mana cost 2 or less in your hand from the
game.
/ {2}, {T}: You may copy the imprinted instant card and play the copy
without paying its mana cost.

Then it does tell you to play the copy, and hence trigger Spellshock.

>> although that can be fun if you find your one
>> Pulse of the Forge. There are a lot of one-of cards in the deck, which
>> makes it feel as though it's rather diluted. Not sure what you mean
>> by 'draw mana'.

> odd, i'm rereading that sentence, and i'm not sure what i mean either. i
> believe i'm referring to a few cards that are 2 + mountain that add 5
> mountains to my mana pool.

Seething Song {2}{R} Instant
/ Add {R}{R}{R}{R}{R} to your mana pool.

This one? More notes on terminology: it doesn't add mountains, it adds
points of red mana. Mountains are the cards that are called 'Mountain',
they're land cards, and they have activated abilities like:

{T}: Add {R} to your mana pool.

Mana is the virtual currency that you use to pay for things. It's
denoted by mana symbols, it lives in a virtual space called your mana
pool, and it exists quite independently of your land cards. It doesn't
even always come from lands:

Fire Diamond {2} Artifact
/ Fire Diamond comes into play tapped.
/ {T}: Add {R} to your mana pool.

> thanks for the post. i'm curious about you saying it's diluted. i noticed
> a lot of tourney decks generally have 4 of each card.

Usually when a deck wants to get a job done, it wants the most appropriate
card to perform that task. Imagine a rank of how good each card is at
getting that job done. Should you put in one of rank 1, one of rank
2, one of rank 3 and one of rank 4, or should you put in four of rank
1? Well, for tourney decks, they only want to do a small number of
things, so they have room to put in many copies of the best card for
the job. With your deck, you're doing lots of different things, so
there's only room for a few of the best cards at doing each of those
many jobs. If you were to tighten up the deck, it would mean doing
fewer different things, but doing them more consistently.

>> Lightning Bolt {R} Instant
>> / Lightning Bolt deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
>>
>> You didn't mention anything like this in your list above, is that in
>> there as well?

> yes. 2 of them.

Rather efficient little spell, good choice.

>> > and red damage stuff, but coupled with the healing powers of
>> > white, it really really rocks.
>>
>> > i've only been playing for a month or so, but my friend has thousands of
>> > cards. anyone see any glaring holes?
>>
>> It's a good mix of cards for a casual red-white build, and you seem to
>> be winning with it - is there something you're having trouble with? If
>> you're after more control, I've had success with this kind of deck
>> either by adding Fissure and Volcanic Geyser type cards, or by going
>> for four Spellshock and heading into Astral Slide territory with lots
>> of cycling cards. In a casual group, Spellshock usually leads to being
>> taken out first, though. :) 
>>
>> It may be better if you play the deck through against a variety of
>> other decks, find things that you can't do, and then ask how to do
>> those things better?
>>
>> Sorry there's been so many questions, but the post was a little vague...

> thank you for taking the time. very much obliged. i'm just getting into
> the game, and am very hungry for new info. i was taught by scotland's 2nd
> ranked player, but couldn't grasp everything he was showing me at the time.
> what i'm having trouble with, depending on the deck, is people being able to
> target my lands - ie. they know that white gives life, and red takes it
> away, and they destroy target lands based on what my life is at. more
> counter target spells i suppose.

Crucible of Worlds {3} Artifact
/ You may play land cards from your graveyard as though they were in
your hand.

Sacred Ground {1}{W} Enchantment
/ Whenever a spell or ability an opponent controls causes a land to be
put into your graveyard from play, return that land to play.

Planar Birth {1}{W} Sorcery
/ Return all basic land cards from all graveyards to play under their
owners' control, tapped.

There are other options, but these fit the colours best.

> i also have trouble getting through the
> first 2 or 3 turns without being able to get anything out to defend. my
> friends just built decks based on getting huge creatures out fast, so i'm
> getting hit quickly. i have some small creatures (a 1/1 that gives life
> whenever a creatures come into play, i have a 2/2 that deals 2 damage on
> coming out) but i feel a bit naked right away.

It may be a symptom of generally having few creatures and relying on
damage as creature control (I imagine that you're sitting there being
able to damage a creature for 4, and facing several somethings with
toughness 7 or 8?) Some ideas for blocking:

Wall of Glare {1}{W} Creature -- Wall 0/5
/ Wall of Glare may block any number of creatures.

Raise the Alarm {1}{W} Instant
/ Put two 1/1 white Soldier creature tokens into play.

Mogg Maniac {1}{R} Creature -- Goblin 1/1
/ Whenever Mogg Maniac is dealt damage, it deals that much damage to
target opponent.

Grab the Reins {3}{R} Instant
/ Choose one -- Until end of turn, you gain control of target creature
and it gains haste; or sacrifice a creature, then Grab the Reins deals
damage equal to that creature's power to target creature or player.
/ Entwine {2}{R}

(admittedly, you probably won't be able to both steal and sacrifice
early on)

> why do people have 4 of each card in their deck, instead of building them
> like mine? my initial guess would be because you know what you're going to
> get, you're not hoping for the mirari which is stuck on the bottom of the
> deck. i can see how it works for a sliver deck, but for mine?

As I mentioned earlier, it's mainly about consistency. If your deck
needs to put fewer pieces together to win the game, then you have more
room in the deck to make those pieces as effective as possible.
However, in a casual environment, you often find that a good deck needs
to be able to do a lot of different things to survive and win. If
you'll be playing a lot of games with more than one opponent, it may be
useful to read up on something like this article from last year:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/aa66

--
-- zoe - who often has four opponents and only sometimes wins
Anonymous
July 9, 2004 9:17:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

> >>
> >> The deck is doing two big things - dealing damage, and gaining life.
> >> A lot of the damage is from spells rather than creatures - the deck
really
> >> doesn't have many creatures at all. This seems to run against having
> >> Spellshock in the deck,
>
> > whenever anyone casts a spell, that includes summoning creatures, right?
>
> This might be a longwinded explanation, but I want to cover the finer
> points of Spellshock and I'll have to use all the technical terms to
> do it:
>
> Playing a spell is one of the things you can do when you have priority.
> You put the spell card on the stack, choose some of the essential
> things like value of Xs or whether you're using Entwine, and pay the
> cost. This is the 'usual' way of making things happen in Magic. Note
> that there are other ways to get things to appear in play, though, by
> being told to as the effect of a spell or ability. See, for instance:
>
> Tooth and Nail {5}{G}{G} Sorcery
> / Choose one -- Search your library for up to two creature cards, reveal
> them, put them into your hand, then shuffle your library; or put up to
> two creature cards from your hand into play.
> / Entwine {2}
>
> This is one spell, so the Spellshock will trigger when you play it. If
> you use it to put creature cards into play, the Spellshock won't also
> trigger for those cards, as they weren't ever spells, they just went
> straight into play.
>
> AEther Vial {1} Artifact
> / At the beginning of your upkeep, you may put a charge counter on
> AEther Vial.
> / {T}: You may put a creature card with converted mana cost equal to the
> number of charge counters on AEther Vial from your hand into play.


awesome. it's great to see some of these cards, because my friend doesn't
have this one is his collection. awesome.


>
> You'll take damage from Spellshock if you play the AEther Vial itself
> after the Spellshock is in play. However, once you have the AEther
> Vial in play, putting its activated ability on the stack isn't playing
> a spell, so that won't trigger the Spellshock... and putting the card
> into play isn't a spell either, so no triggering there.
>
> Note that if you use something like:
>
> Isochron Scepter {2} Artifact
> / Imprint -- When Isochron Scepter comes into play, you may remove an
> instant card with converted mana cost 2 or less in your hand from the
> game.
> / {2}, {T}: You may copy the imprinted instant card and play the copy
> without paying its mana cost.
>
> Then it does tell you to play the copy, and hence trigger Spellshock.
>
> >> although that can be fun if you find your one
> >> Pulse of the Forge. There are a lot of one-of cards in the deck, which
> >> makes it feel as though it's rather diluted. Not sure what you mean
> >> by 'draw mana'.
>
> > odd, i'm rereading that sentence, and i'm not sure what i mean either.
i
> > believe i'm referring to a few cards that are 2 + mountain that add 5
> > mountains to my mana pool.
>
> Seething Song {2}{R} Instant
> / Add {R}{R}{R}{R}{R} to your mana pool.
>
> This one? More notes on terminology: it doesn't add mountains, it adds
> points of red mana. Mountains are the cards that are called 'Mountain',
> they're land cards, and they have activated abilities like:
>
> {T}: Add {R} to your mana pool.
>
> Mana is the virtual currency that you use to pay for things. It's
> denoted by mana symbols, it lives in a virtual space called your mana
> pool, and it exists quite independently of your land cards. It doesn't
> even always come from lands:
>
> Fire Diamond {2} Artifact
> / Fire Diamond comes into play tapped.
> / {T}: Add {R} to your mana pool.


PERFECT.


>
> > thanks for the post. i'm curious about you saying it's diluted. i
noticed
> > a lot of tourney decks generally have 4 of each card.
>
> Usually when a deck wants to get a job done, it wants the most appropriate
> card to perform that task. Imagine a rank of how good each card is at
> getting that job done. Should you put in one of rank 1, one of rank
> 2, one of rank 3 and one of rank 4, or should you put in four of rank
> 1? Well, for tourney decks, they only want to do a small number of
> things, so they have room to put in many copies of the best card for
> the job. With your deck, you're doing lots of different things, so
> there's only room for a few of the best cards at doing each of those
> many jobs. If you were to tighten up the deck, it would mean doing
> fewer different things, but doing them more consistently.
>
> >> Lightning Bolt {R} Instant
> >> / Lightning Bolt deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
> >>
> >> You didn't mention anything like this in your list above, is that in
> >> there as well?
>
> > yes. 2 of them.
>
> Rather efficient little spell, good choice.
>
> >> > and red damage stuff, but coupled with the healing powers of
> >> > white, it really really rocks.
> >>
> >> > i've only been playing for a month or so, but my friend has thousands
of
> >> > cards. anyone see any glaring holes?
> >>
> >> It's a good mix of cards for a casual red-white build, and you seem to
> >> be winning with it - is there something you're having trouble with? If
> >> you're after more control, I've had success with this kind of deck
> >> either by adding Fissure and Volcanic Geyser type cards, or by going
> >> for four Spellshock and heading into Astral Slide territory with lots
> >> of cycling cards. In a casual group, Spellshock usually leads to being
> >> taken out first, though. :) 
> >>
> >> It may be better if you play the deck through against a variety of
> >> other decks, find things that you can't do, and then ask how to do
> >> those things better?
> >>
> >> Sorry there's been so many questions, but the post was a little
vague...
>
> > thank you for taking the time. very much obliged. i'm just getting
into
> > the game, and am very hungry for new info. i was taught by scotland's
2nd
> > ranked player, but couldn't grasp everything he was showing me at the
time.
> > what i'm having trouble with, depending on the deck, is people being
able to
> > target my lands - ie. they know that white gives life, and red takes it
> > away, and they destroy target lands based on what my life is at. more
> > counter target spells i suppose.
>
> Crucible of Worlds {3} Artifact
> / You may play land cards from your graveyard as though they were in
> your hand.

DAMN, GOOD.


>
> Sacred Ground {1}{W} Enchantment
> / Whenever a spell or ability an opponent controls causes a land to be
> put into your graveyard from play, return that land to play.
>
> Planar Birth {1}{W} Sorcery
> / Return all basic land cards from all graveyards to play under their
> owners' control, tapped.


SO CHEAP, SO PERFECT. i'll have to hunt it down at my local shop.


>
> There are other options, but these fit the colours best.
>
> > i also have trouble getting through the
> > first 2 or 3 turns without being able to get anything out to defend. my
> > friends just built decks based on getting huge creatures out fast, so
i'm
> > getting hit quickly. i have some small creatures (a 1/1 that gives life
> > whenever a creatures come into play, i have a 2/2 that deals 2 damage on
> > coming out) but i feel a bit naked right away.
>
> It may be a symptom of generally having few creatures and relying on
> damage as creature control (I imagine that you're sitting there being
> able to damage a creature for 4, and facing several somethings with
> toughness 7 or 8?) Some ideas for blocking:
>
> Wall of Glare {1}{W} Creature -- Wall 0/5
> / Wall of Glare may block any number of creatures.
>
> Raise the Alarm {1}{W} Instant
> / Put two 1/1 white Soldier creature tokens into play.


awesome, the raise the alarm. i'm dealing with a lot of big heavy fliers
with trample right now, but that may change if they tire of their decks.
definitely one i'd like to add to the sideboard

>
> Mogg Maniac {1}{R} Creature -- Goblin 1/1
> / Whenever Mogg Maniac is dealt damage, it deals that much damage to
> target opponent.
>
> Grab the Reins {3}{R} Instant
> / Choose one -- Until end of turn, you gain control of target creature
> and it gains haste; or sacrifice a creature, then Grab the Reins deals
> damage equal to that creature's power to target creature or player.
> / Entwine {2}{R}


hadn't seen this one yet. love it though. a definite have. this is
exactly the kind of thing i'm looking for: effecient in that it saves me,
and deals to them. i love it.


>
> (admittedly, you probably won't be able to both steal and sacrifice
> early on)
>
> > why do people have 4 of each card in their deck, instead of building
them
> > like mine? my initial guess would be because you know what you're going
to
> > get, you're not hoping for the mirari which is stuck on the bottom of
the
> > deck. i can see how it works for a sliver deck, but for mine?
>
> As I mentioned earlier, it's mainly about consistency. If your deck
> needs to put fewer pieces together to win the game, then you have more
> room in the deck to make those pieces as effective as possible.
> However, in a casual environment, you often find that a good deck needs
> to be able to do a lot of different things to survive and win. If
> you'll be playing a lot of games with more than one opponent, it may be
> useful to read up on something like this article from last year:
>
> http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/aa66


thanks a ton. wish i could repay the favor. need to know anything about
screenwriting? :) 




>
> --
> -- zoe - who often has four opponents and only sometimes wins
Anonymous
July 10, 2004 1:10:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

SPIDERMAN wrote:

[snipped R/W Direct Damage/Life Gain Deck]

> i can't recall them all, because i just added a bunch to my sidebar, but can
> anyone think of something i'm missing?

MTG News' Spoiler Generator is a wonderful tool to find new cards:
http://spoilers.mtgnews.com/

If you're building a multicolor deck, it's usually worthwile to check
for any fitting multicolor cards as they are usually more effective than
single color cards. Multicolor cards are usually even quite easy and
cheap to get. Energy Bolt for example could be quite nice to your deck:
http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=energy+b...

Humility is a nice defensive card against creatures
http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=humility

Especially when combined with Earthquake:
http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=earthqua...

If you're using lot of X-spells (with X in the casting cost) Mana flare
might be worth a look. But if you prefer spells with fixed casting cost,
you will draw excess land cards later in game as there's no use for a
seventh land if your most expensive spell only costs 6 mana. Fine ways
to use the extra lands are Zuran Orb and Goblin Trenches. On the other
hand, those two cards don't work very well with X-spells as they require
you to sacrifice lands so your X-spells will be smaller. This is called
synergy or the lack of it to be precise. A challenge in deck building is
to find cards that work fine alone but even better together and don't
hinder each other. For example, Humility and Goblin Trenches have good
synergy as the tokens are already 1/1 creatures so they aren't really
affected by Humility.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=mana+fla...
http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=goblin+t...
http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=zuran+or...

> i've been very successful with this
> deck so far. i can hit for so much life, while building myself up to
> sustain attacks, and to often sustain attacks, AND draw mana.
> i've been winning because no one can hit me for enough life.

So you're using life gain to stay alive long enought to burn your
opponents to death. The fastest creature based decks can usually deal
more than 20 damage by turn 5 and the damage done every turn only
increases as more creatures come into play. It's very hard to get life
equally fast and therefore life gain isn't usually considered to be
viable strategy. It gets good only if you can get really massive amounts
of life or use the gained life to heal the damage done by more powerful
effects like card drawing. Necropotence might be the most well known:
http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=necropot...

By using life gain as defensive strategy you lose card slots that might
be better used as direct damage so you could kill your opponent before
you really even need lifegain. My advise would be to ditch the life
gaining concept and focus more on direct damage and creatures. Naturally
those both can also be used defensively, creatures block attacking
creatures and direct damage destroys them. It's true that in casual
multiplayer games things might very well be little different. I still
have fond memories of the old poison counter deck I used years ago. My
main combo was Marsh Viper and Dwarven Warriors:
http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=marsh+vi...
http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=dwarven+...

--
Karri Rantala - karri@sci.fi - http://www.karri-r.com

The more you cry, the less you have to pee.
Anonymous
July 10, 2004 1:26:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

Just a few words in addition to my other reply...

>> Crucible of Worlds {3} Artifact
>>/ You may play land cards from your graveyard as though they were in
>> your hand.
>
>> Planar Birth {1}{W} Sorcery
>>/ Return all basic land cards from all graveyards to play under their
>> owners' control, tapped.
>
> SO CHEAP, SO PERFECT. i'll have to hunt it down at my local shop.

You might already have noticed there's card mentioned on my other post
which plays really nice with these two :-D

> awesome, the raise the alarm. i'm dealing with a lot of big heavy fliers
> with trample right now, but that may change if they tire of their decks.
> definitely one i'd like to add to the sideboard

If big creatures are your problem, white has the answer as it's known
for countless ways to handle attacking creatures:
http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=reprisal
http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=exile
http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=afterlif...
http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=intrepid...
http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=chastise
http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=wing+sha...

--
Karri Rantala - karri@sci.fi - http://www.karri-r.com

The more you cry, the less you have to pee.
Anonymous
July 10, 2004 7:36:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

SPIDERMAN <spiderman@genius.com> wrote:
>> AEther Vial {1} Artifact
>> / At the beginning of your upkeep, you may put a charge counter on
>> AEther Vial.
>> / {T}: You may put a creature card with converted mana cost equal to the
>> number of charge counters on AEther Vial from your hand into play.
>
>awesome. it's great to see some of these cards, because my friend doesn't
>have this one is his collection. awesome.

Prepare to lose a few days straight down the drain: Oracle, the collected
texts of all Magic cards ever, reworded as they would be if printed today,
lives at http://www.wizards.com/DCI/oracle.asp (or go to the
http://www.wizards.com/magic page, click the bottom-left-most link, grab the
rulebook while you're on that page, then click the link for the Oracle page).

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
!