Deck Question 2: CoreTapper

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

4 Darksteel Reactor
4 Pentad Prism
0 Power Conduit
4 Coretapper
4 Energy Chamber
4 Chimeric Egg
4 Infused Arrows
4 Vedalken Engineer
4 Clock Of Omens
4 Bringer Of The <random> Dawn
4 Skyreach Manta
4 Dismantle
4 Door To Nothingness
Banshee's Blade
Shrapnel Blast
Sun Droplet
Serum Tank
(Never been played. Or even built, actually.)

A probably fairly common looking Reactor deck, but combined with some of 5th
Dawn sunburst:
- The Reactors are fun win condition
- The Coretappers are there to help power the reactor. But they also power
the sunburst stuff, as they can drop charge counters onto Prisms, Infused
Arrows and Chimeric Eggs
- Energy Chambers are counter adders.
- No power conduits, as I don't really have that many "growing" counter
things, like Sun Droplets or Serum Tanks or whatever, to syphon counters
from.
- Prisms and Engineers to speed out the cards, plus to diversify the mana.
A wide mana base isn't an issue, because only the Engineers take colored
mana (blue), and they may not even make the cut.
- Indused Arrows for removal, powered up by sunburst, and then
coretapper/chambers.
- Clock of Omens to untap the coretappers. If those two hit the board
together, the place goes hog-wild with tapping/untapping goodness.
- Skyreach Manta and Chimeric Egg. This deck has no creatures. These guys
have evasion, and are big, but should be able to get out relatively quickly.
The Eggs should be able to pop almost right away if a coretapper/chamber is
out.
- Bringers of the Dawn. I should be able to get these out relatively
early, since the mana base will be a hodge podge. I figure, one prism hits
the table, and these will be able to get out without issue.
- Dismantle. I struggled with this a long time. It's very situational,
but having one in hand means the reactor only needs to go to 10. Having 2,
means it only needs to get to 5. That's a BIG speed up, but otherwise
they're dead. However, I realized, I could also use it to bounce counters
from my own stuff. So, say my Manta gets hosed, and it has 6 +1/+1
counters. I can Dismantle it before it goes and stick those counters on a
Reactor, or Arrows, an Egg, or even on a Coretapper.
- Door to Nothingness. Come on! I've already got the weird mana base.
I've got the ability to dump a ton of counters on a Prism with
coretapper/chamber/dismantly. And I could even untap it right away if a
Clock of Omens is in play. What's not to like? Two wacked out win
conditions in one deck!

Problem 1: I'm at 48 cards, without land. Land would push it up to 75-78.
So... Do I throw in some fabricates, thoughtcasts and machinates and run a
100 card deck? Or, what do I pull out?
Problem 2: Those coretappers are central to the deck winning (though a manta
or bringer could offer a wallop), but they're really fragile. Black control
would eat them alive with Innocent Blood, and Red burn would just giggle. I
thought about throwing arti-recursion in here, like Myr Retrievers or
something, but the deck is already way too fat.

It'd be a gas to play, but it's pretty shaky. Everything comes back to that
little 1/1 coretapper. And that's skeery.

Peter

 

[clayton]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

"Risser Family" <news@nospam.com> wrote in message news:HKQHc.197693$DG4.7384@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
> 4 Darksteel Reactor
> 4 Pentad Prism
> 0 Power Conduit
> 4 Coretapper
> 4 Energy Chamber
> 4 Chimeric Egg
> 4 Infused Arrows
> 4 Vedalken Engineer
> 4 Clock Of Omens
> 4 Bringer Of The <random> Dawn
> 4 Skyreach Manta
> 4 Dismantle
> 4 Door To Nothingness
> Banshee's Blade
> Shrapnel Blast
> Sun Droplet
> Serum Tank
> (Never been played. Or even built, actually.)
>
> A probably fairly common looking Reactor deck, but combined with some of 5th
> Dawn sunburst:
> - The Reactors are fun win condition

Fun is good.

> - The Coretappers are there to help power the reactor. But they also power
> the sunburst stuff, as they can drop charge counters onto Prisms, Infused
> Arrows and Chimeric Eggs

True.

> - Energy Chambers are counter adders.

Which will power up anything artifact in the deck ... including the reactor.

> - No power conduits, as I don't really have that many "growing" counter
> things, like Sun Droplets or Serum Tanks or whatever, to syphon counters
> from.

You have plenty of things to syphon counters from, you just don't want to.
The Conduits can provide you with additional flexibility. Ther may be times
when an extra counter on the Arrows would have killed a creature or when
you're 1 mana short for something, and you could have gotten it if you had
another counter on the Prism. Third situation would be having to put charge
counters on your Energy Chamber or Coretappe because they're your only
artifacts. You can syphon those off with the Conduit.

> - Prisms and Engineers to speed out the cards, plus to diversify the mana.
> A wide mana base isn't an issue, because only the Engineers take colored
> mana (blue), and they may not even make the cut.

Decent Idea. as most of your good stuff is artifacts anyways.

> - Indused Arrows for removal, powered up by sunburst, and then
> coretapper/chambers.

Reusable is good

> - Clock of Omens to untap the coretappers. If those two hit the board
> together, the place goes hog-wild with tapping/untapping goodness.

Meh, maybe I haven't felt the power of the card yet.

> - Skyreach Manta and Chimeric Egg. This deck has no creatures. These guys
> have evasion, and are big, but should be able to get out relatively quickly.
> The Eggs should be able to pop almost right away if a coretapper/chamber is
> out.

True. The Manta should be able to be about a 3/3 for 5 on average and the
Egg will also hopefully be powered up by your opponent playing nonartifct spells

> - Bringers of the Dawn. I should be able to get these out relatively
> early, since the mana base will be a hodge podge. I figure, one prism hits
> the table, and these will be able to get out without issue.

True, but unlike the Manta they're useless without all 5 colours unless you have
the expensive cost.

> - Dismantle. I struggled with this a long time. It's very situational,
> but having one in hand means the reactor only needs to go to 10. Having 2,
> means it only needs to get to 5. That's a BIG speed up, but otherwise
> they're dead. However, I realized, I could also use it to bounce counters
> from my own stuff. So, say my Manta gets hosed, and it has 6 +1/+1
> counters. I can Dismantle it before it goes and stick those counters on a
> Reactor, or Arrows, an Egg, or even on a Coretapper.

True ... Very true. Better with a Modular creature ... as long as there's another
artifact creature in play.

> - Door to Nothingness. Come on! I've already got the weird mana base.
> I've got the ability to dump a ton of counters on a Prism with
> coretapper/chamber/dismantly. And I could even untap it right away if a
> Clock of Omens is in play. What's not to like? Two wacked out win
> conditions in one deck!

I like wacky win conditions. I was thinking about that one too. Though 2
of each mana colour seems very prohibitive to the deck winning with one

> Problem 1: I'm at 48 cards, without land. Land would push it up to 75-78.
> So... Do I throw in some fabricates, thoughtcasts and machinates and run a
> 100 card deck? Or, what do I pull out?

Well depends. If you like the wackiness then just add land and go. The
Fabricates should allow you to use one or two less copies of some cards,
especially the one you're going to search for. You won't get your good
stuff as often.

Pulling out, well the Bringers would be the first thing I pull out. While you
may be able to pull it out turn 3 if you're lucky, it'll most likely be longer.
At least with the Manta, you can get a 3/3 Flyer for 5 if you can't get the fourth
or fifth colour of mana. Also I'd chop two of the Doors since they're not
really going to do anything useful until you can get the activation cost.

Also, since you have a splash of blue, try Fabricate and Mirrodin's Core

> Problem 2: Those coretappers are central to the deck winning (though a manta
> or bringer could offer a wallop), but they're really fragile. Black control
> would eat them alive with Innocent Blood, and Red burn would just giggle. I
> thought about throwing arti-recursion in here, like Myr Retrievers or
> something, but the deck is already way too fat.

Not entirely. The point seems to be to get 20 counters on the Darksteel Reactor.
Dismantle and Energy Chamber do that quite nicely. Secondary objective
seems to be the door, and thus the getting of 10 mana (2 of each colour)
The Pentad Prism and the Engineer support this too.

> It'd be a gas to play, but it's pretty shaky. Everything comes back to that
> little 1/1 coretapper. And that's skeery.

Again, not *entirely*. It's critical sure, but not the end-all. Worst case,
sacrifce it to put 2 charge counters on something. If you thing that they're that
critical, then perhaps you need some recursion to pull it back.

My guess is that you have 8 ways to generate Charge counters -- the Coretapper
and the Energy Chamber. You have 4 more one-shot counter generators in Dismantle.

Power Conduit would be useful in messing up combat math plus it gives you options.
You can infuse your Arrows with an extra charges for more control, or add counters to
the Prism to make mana later. It might be worth sacrificing a counter on your Reactor
to save yourself.

Just my advice though.

-------
Clayton

Random Tagline:
Warning: Hibernating Sliver

 

[peter]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

Here's how the first build will go, probably:

> > 4 Darksteel Reactor
> > 4 Pentad Prism

> > 4 Coretapper
> > 4 Energy Chamber
> > 4 Chimeric Egg
> > 4 Infused Arrows
> > 4 Skyreach Manta
> > 4 Dismantle

Add:
3 Power Conduit

Reduce:
3 Clock Of Omens

Scratch:
Vedalken Engineer
Door To Nothingness
Bringer Of The <random> Dawn

Add 22 random land, possibly some Onslaught cyclers, with a bit more
Red than the other 4 (dismantle being the only colored card).

That's 60.

> > Sun Droplet

Keeping these in the "sideboard". They'd probably be really great in
a multi-player game. Heck, they'd probably be really great in a duel,
but I'm not sure what to take out.

> > - No power conduits, as I don't really have that many "growing" counter
> > things, like Sun Droplets or Serum Tanks or whatever, to syphon counters
> > from.
>
> You have plenty of things to syphon counters from, you just don't want to.
> The Conduits can provide you with additional flexibility. Ther may be times
> when an extra counter on the Arrows would have killed a creature or when
> you're 1 mana short for something, and you could have gotten it if you had
> another counter on the Prism. Third situation would be having to put charge
> counters on your Energy Chamber or Coretappe because they're your only
> artifacts. You can syphon those off with the Conduit.

You're right. These also help me make use of my extra Darksteel
Reactors, which otherwise would just be taking up space. Since these
grow each turn, I can syphon off one and put on the other. Plus, add
counters to the Manta, the Coretapper to beef him up, arrows, etc. at
the last minute.

Plus, it's a tapper, so I can tap/untap with the Clock, to double the
fun.


> > - Clock of Omens to untap the coretappers. If those two hit the board
> > together, the place goes hog-wild with tapping/untapping goodness.
>
> Meh, maybe I haven't felt the power of the card yet.

Think about it. Let's say I have this board:
1 Coretapper
1 Infused Arrows (empty)
2 Prisms (empty)
1 Energy Chamber
1 Darksteel Reactor
1 Manta
various land

With a clock out, I can:
- attack with the Manta, then untap it for defense
- add not one, but FOUR counters per turn, just by using artifacts
that don't tap (prism/prism, reactor/chamber, arrows/clock) to untap
it three times! These guys don't care if they are tapped or not, so
tap 'em up!


> > - Skyreach Manta and Chimeric Egg. This deck has no creatures. These guys
> > have evasion, and are big, but should be able to get out relatively quickly.
> > The Eggs should be able to pop almost right away if a coretapper/chamber is
> > out.
>
> True. The Manta should be able to be about a 3/3 for 5 on average and the
> Egg will also hopefully be powered up by your opponent playing nonartifct spells

Yeah. The egg will primarily be for defense, and as a counter source
for the conduits.


> > - Door to Nothingness. Come on! I've already got the weird mana base.
> > I've got the ability to dump a ton of counters on a Prism with
> > coretapper/chamber/dismantly. And I could even untap it right away if a
> > Clock of Omens is in play. What's not to like? Two wacked out win
> > conditions in one deck!
>
> I like wacky win conditions. I was thinking about that one too. Though 2
> of each mana colour seems very prohibitive to the deck winning with one

I was sad to see this go, but I had to whack it.
I still may build an "extended" version of this deck, with the blue
search & draw, the engineers, maybe some Baubles or other mana-fixers,
and the Doors. Just for super-giggles.


> Pulling out, well the Bringers would be the first thing I pull out. While you
> may be able to pull it out turn 3 if you're lucky, it'll most likely be longer.

Yeah, these had to go. While they'd be powerful as hell, they
basically don't come out until you get a Prism out.


> > It'd be a gas to play, but it's pretty shaky. Everything comes back to that
> > little 1/1 coretapper. And that's skeery.
>
> Again, not *entirely*. It's critical sure, but not the end-all. Worst case,
> sacrifce it to put 2 charge counters on something. If you thing that they're that
> critical, then perhaps you need some recursion to pull it back.
>
> My guess is that you have 8 ways to generate Charge counters -- the Coretapper
> and the Energy Chamber. You have 4 more one-shot counter generators in Dismantle.
>
> Power Conduit would be useful in messing up combat math plus it gives you options.
> You can infuse your Arrows with an extra charges for more control, or add counters to
> the Prism to make mana later. It might be worth sacrificing a counter on your Reactor
> to save yourself.
>
> Just my advice though.

All this was good advice, and the reason why I ended up including the
Conduits.
I trimmed to 22 land because I wanted to run more cards and wasn't
sure what else to remove, and because the most expensive thing is the
Manta at 5. Everything else costs between 2 and 4.

There's nothing for 1, and my only blocker at 2 is a 1/1. Then, I got
nothing until the Egg comes out AND gets charged up. So I'm pretty
vulnerable, which, as I said, is scary.

I thought about some Arcbound Workers or Stingers, but again, what
would I cut?

Anyway, I'll work on playing it and let you all know how it turns out.
(I have to dig up more copies of most of the Uncommons first).
Peter

 

[peter]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

You know what might be good, instead of the Chimeric Eggs?
Spincrusher.
He's 2, he's on the ground, he can block a 2/2 without dying. He
grows each time he blocks, gaining counters. You can stick +1/+1s on
him with the Chambers and Conduits, making him better. Then you can
pull a counter and send him in, unblockable.

He's not as huge as the Eggs, but he'll be on the ground and helping
sooner, with the potential to grow.

Plus, he's cute. And people don't expect to get pummelled by a
Spincrusher.
Still thinking about it.
Peter

 

[peter]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

knucklehead000@yahoo.com (Peter) wrote in message news:<9591b0f0.0407130911.979c88e@posting.google.com>...
> You know what might be good, instead of the Chimeric Eggs?
> Spincrusher.
> He's 2, he's on the ground, he can block a 2/2 without dying. He
> grows each time he blocks, gaining counters. You can stick +1/+1s on
> him with the Chambers and Conduits, making him better. Then you can
> pull a counter and send him in, unblockable.
>
> He's not as huge as the Eggs, but he'll be on the ground and helping
> sooner, with the potential to grow.
>
> Plus, he's cute. And people don't expect to get pummelled by a
> Spincrusher.
> Still thinking about it.

I built it, with the Spincrushers and Power Conduits, and I gotta say,
though I won maybe 30% of the time, it's a helluva deck to play.
There's a lot of counter swapping, especially with a Clock of Omens
and a Power Conduit.

At one point, I had maybe 20 cards on the table, mostly artifacts, and
was able to untap-tap the Coretapper 4 times in a row, to add charge
counters. Unfortunately, most of those went onto Infused Arrows, for
kill power.

Another time, I was facing down a 6/6 Slith Ascendant, when I realized
I had a Dismantle. I hit the Reactor with the Dismantle, threw the
new counters on the Arrows, and nailed the Slith.

There's lots of fun stuff to do that way.

I think the one thing I'm going to have to add is Sun Droplets, both
as health, rechargeable by the Coretapper, but also possibly as a
counter generation source.

None of my wins were from the Reactor. Instead, I beat them to death
with a pumped Coretapper, a pumped Spincrusher or a couple of pumped
Mantas, with the Reactors providing fresh counters to syphon over as
+1/+1s.

Ah well.
Peter