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Opinions about "THGC graphics card buyers' FAQ"

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August 15, 2003 6:54:34 PM

Disscuss about this FAQ here (FAQ content).

IMO, formatting still needs more work. You should give me a bit more time.

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August 15, 2003 7:09:59 PM

I sent you a message earlier Spitfire and still stand behind it...I would have liked to see the Abit Siluro included on the recommended cardmakers list for their cooling solutions, noise reductions, and performance. But, that's just me...dunno if anyone had a bad experience with them. But other than that, I thought that the FAQ will help lots of new users and will probably be valid for the next month or so until everything changes once again :p  Dern ATI and Nvidia won't sit down long enough to pee standing up. (try and figure that one out :tongue: )

Final Answer: I like-uh da juice...

<font color=blue>I don't have to be careful! I have a gun!</font color=blue>
<font color=green>Homer Simpson</font color=green>

TKS
August 15, 2003 7:10:29 PM

Definatly the formatting, its hard to read. Otherwise great start :D 

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August 15, 2003 7:16:16 PM

just from looking at some of the questions that are posted over an over, you may want to make a statement or two about 8x agp 4x agp, etc.

explain what AA and AF do, and how it affects performance

include sapphire in the recommended ati cards (my opinion anyway).

btw, i have a siluro otes (ti4200 tho), and with the case cover on, noise isnt bad. biggest problem is the loss of the first pci slot.
August 15, 2003 7:24:44 PM

there will be a TECHNOLOGY FAQ after the High end one~~
and there will be BRAND SELECTION FAQ

but hey, i have a life (not really) so be patient my young padawan learners

Proud Owner the Block Heater
120% nVidia Fanboy
PROUD OWNER OF THE GEFORCE FX 5900ULTRA <-- I wish this was me
I'd get a nVidia GeForce FX 5900Ultra... if THEY WOULD CHANGE THAT #()#@ HSF
August 15, 2003 7:28:43 PM

It's missing the 9500 non-pro if I'm not mistaken.

------------------
Radeon 9500 w/256 bit memory bus @ 367/310
AMD AthlonXP 2000+
3dMark03: 3439
August 15, 2003 7:32:30 PM

Another thing you might point out is the fact that Video cards are compatible on any windows based PC...I know I've seen a few peoples ask if their PC can use 'such and such' video card. Would just be a good general statement to put the new guys in the right frame of mind.

<font color=blue>I don't have to be careful! I have a gun!</font color=blue>
<font color=green>Homer Simpson</font color=green>

TKS
August 15, 2003 8:05:58 PM

I am against the fact you already did it, when a real proper FAQ would take days assembling user input. This is all contradictory and probably had garnished already enough attention to avoid it next time, since most will overlook it and forget it gets updated.

I suggest you take it off, collect info, if not let anyone else help writing, (I recall GrapeApe suggested he might try to make it) and even give a copy before sticking it.

I might be the only one thinking this way, but sorry, I totally did not appreciate this "sudden" FAQ. It almost sounded like you WANTED the attention by rushing it before anyone else tried to help.

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August 16, 2003 12:26:26 AM

I've said that the FAQ is not final. What's problem with beta version? Fredi didn't mind beta version, and made it sticky.

Coolsquirtle's thread was already running for few days. IMO, enough info for a beta FAQ was collected. I made a quick release, because it will speed up the process of final FAQ.

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August 16, 2003 12:55:01 AM

did i have 9500 non-pro and 9600 non pro?? i thought i did

Proud Owner the Block Heater
120% nVidia Fanboy
PROUD OWNER OF THE GEFORCE FX 5900ULTRA <-- I wish this was me
I'd get a nVidia GeForce FX 5900Ultra... if THEY WOULD CHANGE THAT #()#@ HSF
August 16, 2003 5:47:02 AM

Yeah, double check Shaphire, last i heard anyway, 9700 non pro weren't made by ati at all. Only Shaphire. Heard they were great card.
August 16, 2003 9:13:27 AM

Thanks for getting it done. So far I think it's good.

________________________________
<font color=red><b>your an idiot of biblical proportions
a b U Graphics card
August 16, 2003 12:51:04 PM

Hey, Hey cool it has begun. Thanks for the work. Bee busy, but I have the weekend off after this morning so I'll see what I can come up with.

Sorry but I <b>HAVE</b> to be critical here so don't take it personally.

Things that need to be changed IMO;

- Less Spaces, way to much space in between stuff.

- Lose the Recommended card section, just put a comparison (put a caveat saying under most situations, blah, blah). The recomendations are too long, will change constantly based on price, and will also become obsolete with newer cards. A better example would be something that is agreed upon (more or less) like FX5200<GF4ti=FX5200U=FX5600<FX5600U-R.1<FX5600U-R.2<FX5800<FX5800U<FX5900<FX5900U.

- I'd also prefer a link to a complete (or semi-complete) list of all/most cards <A HREF="http://www.tech-report.com/etc/comparo/graphics/" target="_new">Like This</A>.

- Brands to avoid I'd add GigaCube (or their new name or A/B) to ATI.

- Needs ALOT more technical stuff but I assume that is to come?

- Where are th main stay FAQ requests? Do I need AGP 8X? What is AGP X? What is the volage of AGP X? What is AGP 3.0/2.0/1.0, etc? (something like <A HREF="http://www.directron.com/15agpguide.html" target="_new">This</A> What is Pro vs non-Pro; Ultra versus non-Ultra (explaining there are no non-pro/ultras, that's just our term)? Which one is better ATI or nVidia or Matrox (good time to link to CoolS's post maybe)? What is all this about cheating? And all that good stuff.

- There is no mention of 2D vs. 3D quality, nor is there a description of Pro/Workstation vs Gaming Cards.

- Brief description with links to AA and AF (inlcuding methods not used by ATI & nV [ie Fragment])

- Quick Intro menu (so people can scroll to the area of their general interest/question)

- A list of good review sites (linked of course) other than THG ([H], Anand, nVnews, Rage3D, Digit-Life, xBitLabs, etc.), plus the news breaking sites, (Inquirer, Register, and Xbit again)

- a Brief description of why 3Dmk01 and 3Dmk03 are different and why Bungholio marks don't mean anything in the real world, they just help everyone get a standard judge of th 'known' universe, etc. Perhaps a discussion of why Benchmaking is under fire, or link to that info.

- a Glossar of terms or a link to a glossary of terms would be good.

- The explicit statement that the information provided from this forum is free an shoul be regarded as such and should be taken at face-value (do your own damn research if you want a guarantee!). And also a reminder that Google and Pricewatch/NewEgg all are still operating so USE them!

- Mention about the idea of buying a card in anticipation of a game (don't count on it, wait 'til the game arrives if you are really woried).

- A blurb/mention on/of Moding/Cooling (enough /'s in there?)

- Note about drivers, and the best places to find them.

- A link to go instruction on how to updat/remove/install drivers/cards would be good like <A HREF="http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=46238548d1..." target="_new">THIS</A>.

Anywhoo, that's it for now. I'll see what I can come up with later and post it.

I'm going to cut and paste this in the other thread as well just for information purpose in case one becomes the unofficial 'unofficial Faq' discussion thread.

Ciaola!


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
a b U Graphics card
August 16, 2003 2:49:10 PM

Glad to see this emerging, you guys have got a lot of work ahead of you with graphics cards being such a broad spectrum, and competitively changing field, don't get discouraged someone had to do it. Try to use links like TheGreatGrapeApe suggested It'll save you a lot of trouble.

<b><font color=purple>Details, Details, Its all in the Details, If you need help, Don't leave out the Details.</font color=purple></b>
August 16, 2003 4:02:16 PM

Quote:
There is no mention of 2D vs. 3D quality, nor is there a description of Pro/Workstation vs Gaming Cards.

Most people want to buy gaming cards, so this buyers' guide is gaming card based

Quote:
- a Brief description of why 3Dmk01 and 3Dmk03 are different and why Bungholio marks don't mean anything in the real world, they just help everyone get a standard judge of th 'known' universe, etc. Perhaps a discussion of why Benchmaking is under fire, or link to that info.

Quote:
- Where are th main stay FAQ requests? Do I need AGP 8X? What is AGP X? What is the volage of AGP X? What is AGP 3.0/2.0/1.0, etc? (something like This What is Pro vs non-Pro; Ultra versus non-Ultra (explaining there are no non-pro/ultras, that's just our term)? Which one is better ATI or nVidia or Matrox (good time to link to CoolS's post maybe)? What is all this about cheating? And all that good stuff.

There is going to be 2 stickies. One is the buyers' guide, and one is going to be Technical FAQ. All technical things will be covered in the technical FAQ. I won't tell this buyers' guide "FAQ" anymore. Since many people are getting confused. There will be a link to the technical FAQ in the buyers guide.

Infinate thanks for a long list of constructive suggestions! Will try my best to improve the buyers' guide according to your suggestions.

Quote:
Ciaola!

???

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a b U Graphics card
August 16, 2003 7:19:43 PM

Sorry I confused 'Buyer's Guide' with just PLAIN FAQ. Ooops, long freakin' (13hrs) LAST day at work (was running around packing crap up and backing crap onto CD (yeah I'm only moving nuildings, but I bet they'll wipe my 'virtual drive' none the less. Anywhoo, in my blurry haste (~1 hr to read and post during lunch) I missconstrued the concept.

>> Ciaola!

- ???

Well that's one of my personalized au-revoirs. It's a combo of CIAO and OLA! Like Goodbye-Hello. Anywhhoo (which I said long before it became popular [my dad used to hate that!]), the only other thing I'd add to a buyers guide is to divide your fav. re-seller up as much as possible by region (US, Canada, Euro. Parts of Asia, etc); for Canada I will nominate NCIX.com (Burnaby/Vancouver BC nased) and TigerDirect.ca (based in Toronto; used to be MISCO, I've known them since they sent giant catalogues to my house [long time] when I lived in T.O.).
I'd like to see Matrox in the Buyer's guide, and no snide comments about them Sucking (they excel in certain specific areas), and still don't suck in general gaming, they're just expensive when compared to a GF4ti or R9500P/9600P. Check <A HREF="http://" target="_new">HERE</A> for a good review.
You might also want to make most references to companies like <A HREF="http://www.ati.com/products/gamer.html" target="_new">ATI</A> , <A HREF="http://www.nvidia.com/page/powerof3d.html" target="_new">nVidia</A> , <A HREF="http://www.matrox.com/mga/3d_gaming/home.cfm" target="_new">Matrox</A> , <A HREF="http://us.hercules.com/products/index.php3?t=1" target="_new">Hercules (Guillemot)</A> , <A HREF="http://www.gainward.com/c.html" target="_new">Gainward</A>, clickable links to their graphics/gaming card sections.

Anywhoo, just another 2 frames worth on that.


Ok since there are 2 stickies; <i>who's doing the 'Technical' one?</i>



- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
August 16, 2003 8:47:25 PM

Technical one, is one whom I think has great explaining skills, should do it.

We'll suggest, but we need someone with very good comprehensive skills, because the average user needs to learn it on the fly, it's a FAQ to quickly answer your inquiry, thoroughly, without sounding like an article.

I don't excel much at explaining crap (regulars in the OTHER forum will notice I've had a few very bad explanations on the body physics during sex!).

But I'd be glad to try to pitch in if possible. I still would nominate you to make edit the Technical FAQ, you really do spend time researching articles everywhere, and you probably can do the same for linking to detailed articles on X function. And you got good humor to tie with the FAQ, which IMO does better. Ars Technica does that a lot, and it's nice.

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Site has now even more sexy members, for your pleasure.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eden on 08/16/03 04:47 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
August 16, 2003 8:49:44 PM

Speaking pf Cialoa and Chicken Pizaiolla, Slvr_Phoenix says VIOLA, and being a very fluent in the French language, I must wonder if he isn't trying to say Voila, but he keeps screwing it up every time.

Just what DOES Viola imply, and in what language is it in reality?

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<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=green><b>A sexual experience like never before seen</font color=green></b></A>
Site has now even more sexy members, for your pleasure.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eden on 08/17/03 02:34 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
a b U Graphics card
August 17, 2003 7:39:29 PM

Works for me and I'm using Mozilla (secured up the ying yang) and IE (med./lite security applied [allow cookies etc.]). Try it again, it may have been congested when you tried last time.

You can also go to their home page;

<A HREF="http://www.matrox.com/mga/home.htm" target="_new">http://www.matrox.com/mga/home.htm&lt;/A>

and click on 3D gaming.

should take you to the same place;

<A HREF="http://www.matrox.com/mga/3d_gaming/home.cfm" target="_new">http://www.matrox.com/mga/3d_gaming/home.cfm&lt;/A>

You must see the link, BE the link.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
August 17, 2003 7:42:34 PM

I am the LINK!! lol

hey Grape what are u doing here! go sign up for the technical FAQ NOW!!

Proud Owner the Block Heater
120% nVidia Fanboy
PROUD OWNER OF THE GEFORCE FX 5900ULTRA <-- I wish this was me
I'd get a nVidia GeForce FX 5900Ultra... if THEY WOULD CHANGE THAT #()#@ HSF
a b U Graphics card
August 17, 2003 7:44:59 PM

As I said if people can wait until later; I can contribute something. Right now a: I'm a little hung-over, b: a little busy switching jobs, c: try to get Univ. schedule organized now that I'll be working days.

However I'll see what I can muster up, especially now that I'm going to have my own computer (no more sharing) and 21" IBM monitor at work. Yahooo!

Anywhoo, I've sorta organized a few things (like sources) for whomever does end up doing it, including link to Intel's AGP stuff, 3DLabs extensive explination of various AA types, how to wrap (for ATI) and 'skin' Dawn, etc.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
a b U Graphics card
August 17, 2003 7:53:02 PM

I didn't know I had to sign anything. Do I need to PM Fredi? I'm in if that's the concensus, but where is this 'sign-up sheet'? Man that's how I missed out on the Sleigh Ride in J-HS! Missed out on the best make-out chance that year!

Anywhoo, what now? Do I need to seek Yoda in the Swamp? Look for the Founder of Oracle? Go to the Crystal Palace in the Arctic? Take the pebble from your hand? Climb a volcano toss a ring? Find the Old Geezer in the Capitol to make the gem in my hand stop blinking? Stare down the barrel of a Gun, Pee into the Wind? <b>WHAT</b>?

Just Curious. :wink:


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
August 18, 2003 9:38:27 PM

Please Do something TheGreatGrapeApe I get crossed wired when i try and read some of the stuff on the FAQ page.looks like a kids playing in a sand box.hate to get harsh cool,but it,s the truth.:) 

TREAD SLOWLY IN DANGEROUS WATERS
August 20, 2003 12:56:28 PM

Exacly, Shaphire ARE making most of the ATI retail cards in the noth american market.
And as a mather of fack Shaphire brings better colling solutions than ATI(even a 9700pro and a 9800 with NO COOLING FAN)they do the ATI card as order per ATI but modify their own on the cooling side of the cards.

Great cards !


My frog commited suicide,his last words where :"cigarrete please". :frown:
August 20, 2003 9:05:21 PM

Varlo mon cher ami!

Have you returned to the distribution business?

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<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=green><b>A sexual experience like never before seen</font color=green></b></A>
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August 21, 2003 3:28:50 PM

YUP!~!~! :smile:



My frog commited suicide,his last words where :"cigarrete please". :frown:
August 21, 2003 4:09:19 PM

great job on teh FAQ!!!!


im too lazy to contribute right now, just wanted to show my appreciation

people like you, Spitfire, make this a better place for us all =)

-------

<A HREF="http://www.teenirc.net/chat/tomshardware.html" target="_new"> come to THGC chat~ NOW. dont make me get up ffs @#@$</A>
August 21, 2003 7:36:11 PM

Quote:
people like you, Spitfire, make this a better place for us all =)

No they don't, he helped remove the picture feature in this forum!
:mad: 


ROFL.

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<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=green><b>A sexual experience like never before seen</font color=green></b></A>
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August 21, 2003 7:36:34 PM

COOL!

This is great man, where are you working now?

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August 22, 2003 2:09:56 PM

I'm at Perpheral Express in Montreal...great to be back in the game, i've mist it sooooo mutch

[motorhead]Time to play the game[/motorhead]

My frog commited suicide,his last words where :"cigarrete please". :frown:
August 22, 2003 10:30:08 PM

What caused you to quit your job last time? (I know where you went after)

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August 22, 2003 10:45:25 PM

what about me T_T

Proud Owner the Block Heater
120% nVidia Fanboy
PROUD OWNER OF THE GEFORCE FX 5900ULTRA <-- I wish this was me
I'd get a nVidia GeForce FX 5900Ultra... if THEY WOULD CHANGE THAT #()#@ HSF
August 22, 2003 11:18:10 PM

no i'm not ~~~

Proud Owner the Block Heater
120% nVidia Fanboy
PROUD OWNER OF THE GEFORCE FX 5900ULTRA <-- I wish this was me
I'd get a nVidia GeForce FX 5900Ultra... if THEY WOULD CHANGE THAT #()#@ HSF
August 23, 2003 2:07:13 AM

Nah, just humoring the situation.

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August 30, 2003 6:31:17 PM

Good work and thank you. I do not think I saw this mentioned in the opinions listed. But I would like to see mention of DX9 DX10 compatability and performance. How obsolescent proof is it?
August 31, 2003 7:12:17 PM

Creative Labs is missing from the Nvidia card suppliers. I'd put them in the 'good' list.
September 19, 2003 9:57:33 PM

You guys reccomend certian manufacters, I'm surprised Saphirre is not in there.


Soundwave
September 20, 2003 12:10:17 AM

it isn't there?

add it in Spitfire

Proud Owner the Block Heater
120% nVidia Fanboy
PROUD OWNER OF THE GEFORCE FX 5900ULTRA <-- I wish this was me
I'd get a nVidia GeForce FX 5900Ultra... if THEY WOULD CHANGE THAT #()#@ HSF
a b U Graphics card
September 20, 2003 1:08:27 AM

When Sapphire is compared to others it doesn't hold up well all the time. R9600P Regular Atlantis (poor build) FireBlade (Great Build), Atlantis UE (Ultimate Edition), A very Different idea and mid-performer. The fact that Sapphire is very hit and miss when it comes to memory and overclcoking and features, is one of the main reasons it's not a highly recommended OEM partner. The others are almost guaranteed to have GREAT products and GREAT bundles. Sapphire's too spotty to get an A+ but they do get a B+. It's what one would call a GOOD choice, not a GREAT choice. But it's far from the BAD choices.

You can add it, but then again you should add Creative, TYAN, HIS, FIC, Connect 3D, Visiontek, and countless others. Sapphire can be put down for what it is, A BIG company with some quality parts, you likely will do fine. But seeing as their warranties or packages (contents) aren't stellar, why should their rating/recommendation be stellar?

Either be specific in the truely GREAT mfrs or else forget the recommendations all together.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
a b U Graphics card
September 20, 2003 3:40:05 AM

Where's TYAN, CREATIVE, etc.

Seriously too liberal. You need different classes.

BEST MFRs (in our opinon):
GOOD MFRs " " :
POOR MFRs " " :

I wouldn't take a Sapphire Atlantis R9600P over mine even for a price drop, and forget about it against the Hercules.

Anywhoo, it's YOUR list. And that's just MY opinion.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
September 20, 2003 11:37:25 PM

Here's the recommended list of the buyers' guide
<i>
For ATI based cards: Built by ATI, Gigabyte, Hercules

For nVidia based cards: ASUS, ABIT, Gainward, Leadtek, MSI, PNY</i>

Should I change it to-

For ATI based cards:
Best: Buily by ATI, Hercules
Good: Gigabyte, Sapphire

For nVidia based cards:
Best: ASUS, MSI, Leadtek, PNY
Good: ABIT, Gainward

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!