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Little bit of frustration playing against a white deck

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Anonymous
October 5, 2004 3:43:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

Hello all!

A friend is playing mainly with white.
His current deck is white/artifact only.
I am trying to defeat him with different combinations but green as a 'main'
color.
I have tried different combination: green/white, green/red, green/white/red
and currently even a green/white/red/blue deck.
And actually the last one works best, but I am still unable to win any game
(except when having lots of luck in the first few turns).
Thinking about dismissing red and add some more blue against his cheap and
terrible white instants.

The problem is as follows:
in the first few turns, my friend always have cheap creatures with abilities
like 'tap target creature', 'prevent 1, 2 or even 4 damage'.
All his main attackers are flyings AND don't need to tap.
As a reserve against any sorceries I might try, he has cards like hollow
(eating my damage and giving him live) and 'destroy target attacking
creature'.
Actually I have never been able to use any red sorcery against him which had
any noticable effect on the game.

Most of the time, he taps one or two of my main heavy (unblockable, but
still useless) attackers (if I have any in the game, because green takes
time to build). Green has good blockers (mostly spiders) but they don't have
good attacking capabilities, so I can block a few of his flyers but almost
never destroy them.
When I cast a red sorcery, he prevents everything with his 'prevent damage'
creatures or eats them up with 'hollow' or other terrible instants.

So my main attackers are almost always tapped, my red sorceries don't work
at all and even give HIM more life. My blockers block but do nothings much
else.
Main attackers like the 5/5 Rhox or the 7/7 Spike Elementals are also
destroyed by 'destroy attacking creature' cards or totally ignored by way to
cheap cards like 'prevent all damage'. O yes, he also has a 'prestine
angel', an 'intrepid hero', a few circle of protections and an 'ivory mask'.

How the heck can I ever beat this?
Is it just me, or are those white creatures really cheap with too much also
way too cheap abilities in comparison with all other colors?

I have a lot of cheap destroy artifacts and/or enchantments, so that works
quite well. Blue is also doing some work so maybe if I stop using red
sorceries and throw in a few extra 'flash counters' or 'remove souls'?
Maybe a 'Whispersilk Cloak'. It says 'equipped creature can't be the target
of spells or abilities' and 'creature is unblockable'. So I might as well
throw out the expensive rhox and spike elementals and use less expensive
creatures in combination with a bunch of (4) cloacks?

And another question. About the 'prestine angel'... as log as that creature
is untapped, nothing seem to work against it.
Since he uses this one mostly as a blocker, what can I do to destroy is?
(except maybe a wrath of god?).
Can the blue card 'Remove Soul' cancel this creature when it is cast? (I
think so, because the creature isn't a creature yet, and so it doesn't yet
have the protection, is this correct?)

Just want to know some thoughts :) 

Regards and thanks in advance,
Marcel

More about : bit frustration playing white deck

Anonymous
October 5, 2004 1:29:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

Marcel Overweel <moverweel@hotmail.com> sent:
> Hello all!

> A friend is playing mainly with white.
> His current deck is white/artifact only.
> I am trying to defeat him with different combinations but green as a 'main'
> color.
> I have tried different combination: green/white, green/red, green/white/red
> and currently even a green/white/red/blue deck.
> And actually the last one works best, but I am still unable to win any game
> (except when having lots of luck in the first few turns).
> Thinking about dismissing red and add some more blue against his cheap and
> terrible white instants.

Why no black? Black is still very powerful with creature control and
discard. A lot of my successful decks in the past have been green and
black - green for acceleration and stompy creatures, black for
recursion and creature control.

> The problem is as follows:
> in the first few turns, my friend always have cheap creatures with abilities
> like 'tap target creature', 'prevent 1, 2 or even 4 damage'.

Make him discard them. Counter them. Kill them if they get into play.
Stop their abilities working with Cursed Totem:

Cursed Totem {2} Artifact
/ Players can't play creatures' activated abilities.

> All his main attackers are flyings AND don't need to tap.

Kill them with Hurricanes, kill them with Terror, kill them with
Whirlwind.

Whirlwind {2}{G}{G} Sorcery
/ Destroy all creatures with flying.

> As a reserve against any sorceries I might try, he has cards like hollow
> (eating my damage and giving him live) and 'destroy target attacking
> creature'.

Use sorceries that don't deal damage:

Soul Feast {3}{B}{B} Sorcery
/ Target player loses 4 life and you gain 4 life.

> Actually I have never been able to use any red sorcery against him which had
> any noticable effect on the game.

> Most of the time, he taps one or two of my main heavy (unblockable, but
> still useless) attackers (if I have any in the game, because green takes
> time to build).

Untap them again!

Seeker of Skybreak {1}{G} Creature -- Elf 2/1
/ {T}: Untap target creature.

> Green has good blockers (mostly spiders) but they don't have
> good attacking capabilities, so I can block a few of his flyers but almost
> never destroy them.

Venom {1}{G}{G} Enchant Creature
/ Whenever enchanted creature blocks or becomes blocked by a non-Wall
creature, destroy that creature at end of combat.

> When I cast a red sorcery, he prevents everything with his 'prevent damage'
> creatures or eats them up with 'hollow' or other terrible instants.

> So my main attackers are almost always tapped, my red sorceries don't work
> at all and even give HIM more life. My blockers block but do nothings much
> else.
> Main attackers like the 5/5 Rhox or the 7/7 Spike Elementals are also
> destroyed by 'destroy attacking creature' cards or totally ignored by way to
> cheap cards like 'prevent all damage'. O yes, he also has a 'prestine
> angel', an 'intrepid hero', a few circle of protections and an 'ivory mask'.

It sounds to me that it isn't so much the colours that you're playing
that's the problem, but the overall power of the deck. Maybe you're
spread too thin in your deck, and aren't able to apply enough pressure
to your opponent. Maybe your mana curve is quite ragged and you can't
play anything effective on the crucial turns.

> How the heck can I ever beat this?
> Is it just me, or are those white creatures really cheap with too much also
> way too cheap abilities in comparison with all other colors?

White is really good at cheap efficient creatures and combat/damage
control. To defeat white is tricky, usually involving being faster,
or having very good creature removal that doesn't use damage.
You might consider things like the following cards:

Mutilate {2}{B}{B} Sorcery
/ All creatures get -1/-1 until end of turn for each Swamp you control.

Flowstone Slide {X}{2}{R}{R} Sorcery
/ All creatures get +X/-X until end of turn.

Pull Under {5}{B} Instant - Arcane
/ Target creature gets -5/-5 until end of turn.

Flaring Pain {1}{R} Instant
/ Damage can't be prevented this turn.
/ Flashback {R}

Also, abilities like regeneration may help, depending on whether the
"destroy target attacking creature" that you suffer has an associated
"that creature can't be regenerated" with it.

Hallow {W} Instant
/ Prevent all damage target spell would deal this turn. You gain life
equal to the damage prevented this way.

Now, remember that this only works on spells...

Goblin Cannon {4} Artifact
/ {2}: Goblin Cannon deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
Sacrifice Goblin Cannon.

Cinder Elemental {3}{R} Creature -- Elemental 2/2
/ {X}{R}, {T}, Sacrifice Cinder Elemental: Cinder Elemental deals X
damage to target creature or player.

Both of these cards have abilities that can deal damage directly to
your opponent. So does this card, although it's slightly slower:

Vulshok Sorcerer {1}{R}{R} Creature -- Human Shaman 1/1
/ Haste
/ {T}: Vulshok Sorcerer deals 1 damage to target creature or player.

> I have a lot of cheap destroy artifacts and/or enchantments, so that works
> quite well. Blue is also doing some work so maybe if I stop using red
> sorceries and throw in a few extra 'flash counters' or 'remove souls'?
> Maybe a 'Whispersilk Cloak'. It says 'equipped creature can't be the target
> of spells or abilities' and 'creature is unblockable'. So I might as well
> throw out the expensive rhox and spike elementals and use less expensive
> creatures in combination with a bunch of (4) cloacks?

You may find that a little land-searching or mana-producing creatures
will help to get those Rhox and Thorn Elementals into play in a timely
fashion.

Yes to the cloaks, yes also to Lightning Greaves if you can find some:

Lightning Greaves {2} Artifact -- Equipment
/ Equipped creature has haste and can't be the target of spells or
abilities.
/ Equip {0}

I'd advocate finding some good cheap green creatures. Some of the
snakes from the Champions set may be useful to you. You may also get
on well with artifact creatures (some of these are indestructible),
and fog-like effects.

Fog {G} Instant
/ Prevent all combat damage that would be dealt this turn.

This one is made more effective, of course, with Isochron Scepter:

Isochron Scepter {2} Artifact
/ Imprint -- When Isochron Scepter comes into play, you may remove an
instant card with converted mana cost 2 or less in your hand from the
game.
/ {2}, {T}: You may copy the imprinted instant card and play the copy
without paying its mana cost.

> And another question. About the 'prestine angel'... as log as that creature
> is untapped, nothing seem to work against it.

Pristine Angel {4}{W}{W} Creature -- Angel 4/4
/ Flying
/ As long as Pristine Angel is untapped, it has protection from
artifacts and from all colors.
/ Whenever you play a spell, you may untap Pristine Angel.

> Since he uses this one mostly as a blocker, what can I do to destroy is?
> (except maybe a wrath of god?).

Wrath of God would be a good idea. If it's being used as a blocker,
simply play unblockable or trampling/supertrampling creatures - if
the Angel blocks something like Thorn Elemental, the protection won't
do a thing to stop the damage going to the defending player. Or, you
could get the player to sacrifice it, if it's the only creature at
the time.

Diabolic Edict {1}{B} Instant
/ Target player sacrifices a creature.

> Can the blue card 'Remove Soul' cancel this creature when it is cast? (I
> think so, because the creature isn't a creature yet, and so it doesn't yet
> have the protection, is this correct?)

That's correct, it would have to be something like Scragnoth to be
able to get past a Remove Soul:

Scragnoth {4}{G} Creature -- Beast 3/4
/ Scragnoth can't be countered.
/ Protection from blue

> Just want to know some thoughts :) 

Stick to fewer colours, try some artifact creatures, tighten up the
mana curve, maybe add some acceleration. Use untargetables,
indestructibles, unblockables, regenerators. Make sure you have enough
land that you're unlikely to miss a land drop on the first three or
four turns, and make sure that most of your spells are playable in any
situation. When playing, try to put as much pressure on your opponent
with efficient attacks. I've suggested a number of possible strategies
that could work, if you can get hold of the right cards. There are
probably other cards that do similar things, it's a matter of finding
out what you can get hold of, and what kinds of effect you're after.

Good luck!

--
-- zoe
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 6:24:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

Hi Zoe,

Most of the cards you mention I don't have yet (started playing magic with
8th edition and also have some mirrodin/dark steel), but you gave me some
very good ideas on what to change and what tactics to try out.
I will certainly add more blue counter spells and try to 'spread' the mana
usage a bit by using different creatures. Already have some ideas how to do
that. The cloaks will certainly help me to do just that.

So this evening will be another deck-building puzzle evening... already half
the fun if you ask me :) 

Thanks!
Marcel

"Zoe Stephenson" <zrs1@uk.ac.york.reversed> schreef in bericht
news:cjtphf$jvo$1@pump1.york.ac.uk...
> Marcel Overweel <moverweel@hotmail.com> sent:
> > Hello all!
>
> > A friend is playing mainly with white.
> > His current deck is white/artifact only.
> > I am trying to defeat him with different combinations but green as a
'main'
> > color.
> > I have tried different combination: green/white, green/red,
green/white/red
> > and currently even a green/white/red/blue deck.
> > And actually the last one works best, but I am still unable to win any
game
> > (except when having lots of luck in the first few turns).
> > Thinking about dismissing red and add some more blue against his cheap
and
> > terrible white instants.
>
> Why no black? Black is still very powerful with creature control and
> discard. A lot of my successful decks in the past have been green and
> black - green for acceleration and stompy creatures, black for
> recursion and creature control.
>
> > The problem is as follows:
> > in the first few turns, my friend always have cheap creatures with
abilities
> > like 'tap target creature', 'prevent 1, 2 or even 4 damage'.
>
> Make him discard them. Counter them. Kill them if they get into play.
> Stop their abilities working with Cursed Totem:
>
> Cursed Totem {2} Artifact
> / Players can't play creatures' activated abilities.
>
> > All his main attackers are flyings AND don't need to tap.
>
> Kill them with Hurricanes, kill them with Terror, kill them with
> Whirlwind.
>
> Whirlwind {2}{G}{G} Sorcery
> / Destroy all creatures with flying.
>
> > As a reserve against any sorceries I might try, he has cards like hollow
> > (eating my damage and giving him live) and 'destroy target attacking
> > creature'.
>
> Use sorceries that don't deal damage:
>
> Soul Feast {3}{B}{B} Sorcery
> / Target player loses 4 life and you gain 4 life.
>
> > Actually I have never been able to use any red sorcery against him which
had
> > any noticable effect on the game.
>
> > Most of the time, he taps one or two of my main heavy (unblockable, but
> > still useless) attackers (if I have any in the game, because green takes
> > time to build).
>
> Untap them again!
>
> Seeker of Skybreak {1}{G} Creature -- Elf 2/1
> / {T}: Untap target creature.
>
> > Green has good blockers (mostly spiders) but they don't have
> > good attacking capabilities, so I can block a few of his flyers but
almost
> > never destroy them.
>
> Venom {1}{G}{G} Enchant Creature
> / Whenever enchanted creature blocks or becomes blocked by a non-Wall
> creature, destroy that creature at end of combat.
>
> > When I cast a red sorcery, he prevents everything with his 'prevent
damage'
> > creatures or eats them up with 'hollow' or other terrible instants.
>
> > So my main attackers are almost always tapped, my red sorceries don't
work
> > at all and even give HIM more life. My blockers block but do nothings
much
> > else.
> > Main attackers like the 5/5 Rhox or the 7/7 Spike Elementals are also
> > destroyed by 'destroy attacking creature' cards or totally ignored by
way to
> > cheap cards like 'prevent all damage'. O yes, he also has a 'prestine
> > angel', an 'intrepid hero', a few circle of protections and an 'ivory
mask'.
>
> It sounds to me that it isn't so much the colours that you're playing
> that's the problem, but the overall power of the deck. Maybe you're
> spread too thin in your deck, and aren't able to apply enough pressure
> to your opponent. Maybe your mana curve is quite ragged and you can't
> play anything effective on the crucial turns.
>
> > How the heck can I ever beat this?
> > Is it just me, or are those white creatures really cheap with too much
also
> > way too cheap abilities in comparison with all other colors?
>
> White is really good at cheap efficient creatures and combat/damage
> control. To defeat white is tricky, usually involving being faster,
> or having very good creature removal that doesn't use damage.
> You might consider things like the following cards:
>
> Mutilate {2}{B}{B} Sorcery
> / All creatures get -1/-1 until end of turn for each Swamp you control.
>
> Flowstone Slide {X}{2}{R}{R} Sorcery
> / All creatures get +X/-X until end of turn.
>
> Pull Under {5}{B} Instant - Arcane
> / Target creature gets -5/-5 until end of turn.
>
> Flaring Pain {1}{R} Instant
> / Damage can't be prevented this turn.
> / Flashback {R}
>
> Also, abilities like regeneration may help, depending on whether the
> "destroy target attacking creature" that you suffer has an associated
> "that creature can't be regenerated" with it.
>
> Hallow {W} Instant
> / Prevent all damage target spell would deal this turn. You gain life
> equal to the damage prevented this way.
>
> Now, remember that this only works on spells...
>
> Goblin Cannon {4} Artifact
> / {2}: Goblin Cannon deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
> Sacrifice Goblin Cannon.
>
> Cinder Elemental {3}{R} Creature -- Elemental 2/2
> / {X}{R}, {T}, Sacrifice Cinder Elemental: Cinder Elemental deals X
> damage to target creature or player.
>
> Both of these cards have abilities that can deal damage directly to
> your opponent. So does this card, although it's slightly slower:
>
> Vulshok Sorcerer {1}{R}{R} Creature -- Human Shaman 1/1
> / Haste
> / {T}: Vulshok Sorcerer deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
>
> > I have a lot of cheap destroy artifacts and/or enchantments, so that
works
> > quite well. Blue is also doing some work so maybe if I stop using red
> > sorceries and throw in a few extra 'flash counters' or 'remove souls'?
> > Maybe a 'Whispersilk Cloak'. It says 'equipped creature can't be the
target
> > of spells or abilities' and 'creature is unblockable'. So I might as
well
> > throw out the expensive rhox and spike elementals and use less expensive
> > creatures in combination with a bunch of (4) cloacks?
>
> You may find that a little land-searching or mana-producing creatures
> will help to get those Rhox and Thorn Elementals into play in a timely
> fashion.
>
> Yes to the cloaks, yes also to Lightning Greaves if you can find some:
>
> Lightning Greaves {2} Artifact -- Equipment
> / Equipped creature has haste and can't be the target of spells or
> abilities.
> / Equip {0}
>
> I'd advocate finding some good cheap green creatures. Some of the
> snakes from the Champions set may be useful to you. You may also get
> on well with artifact creatures (some of these are indestructible),
> and fog-like effects.
>
> Fog {G} Instant
> / Prevent all combat damage that would be dealt this turn.
>
> This one is made more effective, of course, with Isochron Scepter:
>
> Isochron Scepter {2} Artifact
> / Imprint -- When Isochron Scepter comes into play, you may remove an
> instant card with converted mana cost 2 or less in your hand from the
> game.
> / {2}, {T}: You may copy the imprinted instant card and play the copy
> without paying its mana cost.
>
> > And another question. About the 'prestine angel'... as log as that
creature
> > is untapped, nothing seem to work against it.
>
> Pristine Angel {4}{W}{W} Creature -- Angel 4/4
> / Flying
> / As long as Pristine Angel is untapped, it has protection from
> artifacts and from all colors.
> / Whenever you play a spell, you may untap Pristine Angel.
>
> > Since he uses this one mostly as a blocker, what can I do to destroy is?
> > (except maybe a wrath of god?).
>
> Wrath of God would be a good idea. If it's being used as a blocker,
> simply play unblockable or trampling/supertrampling creatures - if
> the Angel blocks something like Thorn Elemental, the protection won't
> do a thing to stop the damage going to the defending player. Or, you
> could get the player to sacrifice it, if it's the only creature at
> the time.
>
> Diabolic Edict {1}{B} Instant
> / Target player sacrifices a creature.
>
> > Can the blue card 'Remove Soul' cancel this creature when it is cast? (I
> > think so, because the creature isn't a creature yet, and so it doesn't
yet
> > have the protection, is this correct?)
>
> That's correct, it would have to be something like Scragnoth to be
> able to get past a Remove Soul:
>
> Scragnoth {4}{G} Creature -- Beast 3/4
> / Scragnoth can't be countered.
> / Protection from blue
>
> > Just want to know some thoughts :) 
>
> Stick to fewer colours, try some artifact creatures, tighten up the
> mana curve, maybe add some acceleration. Use untargetables,
> indestructibles, unblockables, regenerators. Make sure you have enough
> land that you're unlikely to miss a land drop on the first three or
> four turns, and make sure that most of your spells are playable in any
> situation. When playing, try to put as much pressure on your opponent
> with efficient attacks. I've suggested a number of possible strategies
> that could work, if you can get hold of the right cards. There are
> probably other cards that do similar things, it's a matter of finding
> out what you can get hold of, and what kinds of effect you're after.
>
> Good luck!
>
> --
> -- zoe
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
October 5, 2004 6:24:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

"Marcel Overweel" <moverweel@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<ejw8d.10498$l_4.6206@fe06.usenetserver.com>...
> Hi Zoe,
>
> Most of the cards you mention I don't have yet (started playing magic with
> 8th edition and also have some mirrodin/dark steel), but you gave me some
> very good ideas on what to change and what tactics to try out.

From the sets you that you have, there are many black cards that would
help.
Commons: Terror, Dark Banishing, Echoing Decay. Possibly Nausea or Nim
Replica.
Uncommons: Nekrataal, Barter in Blood (good against Pristine Angel).

Note though that Terror, Dark Banishing and (to some extent) Nekrataal
will make your deck weaker against other Black decks.

You could also tranform your deck to include more discard technology:
Commons: Ravenous Rats, Wrench Mind, Necrogen Spellbomb, Coercion,
Mind Rot.
Uncommons: Abyssal Specter, Mind Slash, Mind Sludge.

As Zoe mentioned, non-spell damage cards would keep Hallow at bay:
Pyrite Spellbomb, Shock Troops, Fodder Cannon, Granite Shard,
Spitting Spider (against flyers), Soldier Replica, + various white
damage dealing creatures.

Isochron Scepter (uncommon) is always nice for those cheap instants.

Pristine Angel (rare card) is difficult to deal with -- you can use
Barter in Blood, or resort to your own rare (if you have them): Wrath
of God, Solar Tide, Evacuation, Grave Pact, even Plague Wind.

If you're really desperate, you can use:
Wing Snare (destroy flying creature), Execute (destroy white
creature), or Flashfires (destroy all Plains).

But I personally would not use these as your deck would be generally
weaker (not to mention, annoying and boring for your friend).

Finally, there are a lot of play tactics that beginners (I am assuming
since you started playing with 8th ed) do not at first consider.
- Waiting to use your "red sorceries" until he cannot cast Hallow or
other dmg prevention (tapped out, no hand, you recently cast Coercion,
etc.)
- Using creature removal on creatures that pose a big threat (not on
the first ones they cast).
- Holding back creatures before casting a Wrath of God, etc.
- Waiting until the end of their turn to "surprise" them with an
instant (even taking damage during attack phase). Even if they can
respond, you untap and now are free to do something else.

Please ignore the above if you are already familiar with them...

Good luck!
Ken
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 7:07:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

"Marcel Overweel" <moverweel@hotmail.com> wrote:
[snipping as necessary]
> A friend is playing
> white/artifact only.
> I am trying to defeat him with different combinations but green as a
> 'main'
> color.
> I have tried different combination: green/white, green/red,
> green/white/red
> and currently even a green/white/red/blue deck.

3 and 4 color decks are very unlikely to work well without cards like Birds
of Paradise (T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.). You should
try to eliminate the colors that are helping you the least.

> All his main attackers are flyings AND don't need to tap.

It sounds like he is using cards like Serra Angel; I like Wing Snare
(Destroy target creature with flying) against that.

> O yes, he also has a 'prestine
> angel'

[Pristine Angel.] Correct, the remove Remove Soul you suggested does work
against this. Creatures with Protection from something only only have it
while they are in play (so, not while a spell). Mana Leak (Counter target
spell unless its controller pays 3.) is more versatile than Remove Soul (but
obviously doesn't work all that well in the late game).

> As a reserve against any sorceries I might try, he has cards like hollow
> Actually I have never been able to use any red sorcery against him which
> had
> any noticable effect on the game.
> (eating my damage and giving him live)

[Hallow.] I agree with what you are already thinking: red from your deck
entirely. Spells are not a good way for you to deal damage to your opponent.

On the other hand, they are an excellent way to kill off his annoying little
creatures that have the ability to tap your creatures. Consider Pyroclasm
(deals 2 damage to each creature. (8th Uncommon)).

> and 'destroy target attacking
> creature'.
> Main attackers like the 5/5 Rhox or the 7/7 Spike Elementals

[Thorn Elemental.]

> are also
> destroyed by 'destroy attacking creature' cards or totally ignored by way
> to
> cheap cards like 'prevent all damage'.

You should consider redesigning your deck so that you can attack with lots
of small creatures that are hard for him to kill (rather than a few big
creatures that he can easily destroy or prevent the damage from). A great
example of a card that works well against your opponent's strategy is Troll
Ascetic (1GG 3/2 Troll Ascetic can't be the target of spells or abilities
your opponents control.;1G: Regenerate Troll Ascetic. (Mirrodin Rare)) but a
substitute card you might actually have is Trained Armodon. (A good strategy
for beginning player is to put 4 Troll Ascetics on your wish list, and in
the meantime, play with 4 Trained Armodon in your deck.)

> Maybe a 'Whispersilk Cloak'. It says 'equipped creature can't be the
> target
> of spells or abilities' and 'creature is unblockable'. So I might as well
> throw out the expensive rhox and spike elementals and use less expensive
> creatures in combination with a bunch of (4) cloacks?

Whispersilk Cloak gives your creatures an ability similar to Troll Ascetic,
but its just not as good, since you need 2 cards (the Cloak and the
creature) to make one attacker. It will complement your fat creatures well,
but will not necessarily work well on your small ones. Try it; it may work
out for you in your current deck.

> I have a lot of cheap destroy artifacts and/or enchantments, so that works
> quite well.

I forget how to destroy enchantments with green 8th Edition commons (no
Tranquility). Can someone think of the best way?Excellent! Which cards are
you using? Those should deal nicely with these cards you mention: 'ivory
mask' and 'circle of protection.'

> How the heck can I ever beat this?
> Is it just me, or are those white creatures really cheap with too much
> also
> way too cheap abilities in comparison with all other colors?

They are good, compared to the cards that brand new players play with
(spiders and such) but they are still beatable. It is rare to see white
weenie/artifact decks win tournaments these days.

I know you can beat your opponent's deck; it is just a question of making
changes to yours, playing a lot, and seeing what other changed you need to
make. Good luck! And let us know how you do!
October 5, 2004 9:30:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

Try Green Silklash Spider. Once it hits the table, for the outlay of 6 mana you can
deal 4 damage to each flier, and it doesn't matter if the spidey is tapped or not.

Silklash Spider
{3}{G}{G}
Creature -- Spider
2/7
Silklash Spider may block as though it had flying.
{X}{G}{G}: Silklash Spider deals X damage to each creature with flying.


Tim
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 9:30:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

Hi Tim,

This is an excellent blocker as well as a good way to shoot his flyers out
of the air :) 
I don't have that card yet, but I've put it on my wish list!

Thanks,
Marcel


"Tim" <XX@nah.com> schreef in bericht
news:y6s8d.76$uv4.3029@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
> Try Green Silklash Spider. Once it hits the table, for the outlay of 6
mana you can
> deal 4 damage to each flier, and it doesn't matter if the spidey is tapped
or not.
>
> Silklash Spider
> {3}{G}{G}
> Creature -- Spider
> 2/7
> Silklash Spider may block as though it had flying.
> {X}{G}{G}: Silklash Spider deals X damage to each creature with flying.
>
>
> Tim
>
>
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 9:45:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

> A friend is playing mainly with white.
> His current deck is white/artifact only.
> I am trying to defeat him with different combinations but green as a
'main'
> color.
> I have tried different combination: green/white, green/red,
green/white/red
> and currently even a green/white/red/blue deck.
> And actually the last one works best, but I am still unable to win any
game
> (except when having lots of luck in the first few turns).
> Thinking about dismissing red and add some more blue against his cheap and
> terrible white instants.

So, you need to handle creatures that are sitting on his side and
preventing damage, his flying creatures that attack, and damage prevention
spells. One thing you've discovered is that green is good at making big
creatures, but it's not very good at destroying creatures. You've also
discovered that white is good at making small creatures with useful
abilities. It's time you discovered that black is very very good at killing
creatures. :)  Black has a lot of spells that lower creatures toughness, like
Nausea and Infest... this is not damage, it is only lowering toughness, so
damage prevention can't stop it. Black also has many spells that can destroy
creatures without having to deal damage, like Terror or Dark Banishing. So I
would suggest building a black deck. Maybe add blue also for counterspells
against things like Pristine Angel. (Yes, Remove Soul and Wrath of God will
both be able to stop the Angel.) If he's using 'destroy attacking creature'
spells, you might try playing creatures that are untargetable or that have
protection from white, or again you can use counterspells to stop those
spells. Hope this helps!
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 3:47:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

"Ken" <kfutamura@comcast.net> schreef in bericht
news:D 069ae6d.0410051253.5000ef6d@posting.google.com...
> "Marcel Overweel" <moverweel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<ejw8d.10498$l_4.6206@fe06.usenetserver.com>...
> > Hi Zoe,
> >
> > Most of the cards you mention I don't have yet (started playing magic
with
> > 8th edition and also have some mirrodin/dark steel), but you gave me
some
> > very good ideas on what to change and what tactics to try out.
>
> From the sets you that you have, there are many black cards that would
> help.
> Commons: Terror, Dark Banishing, Echoing Decay. Possibly Nausea or Nim
> Replica.
> Uncommons: Nekrataal, Barter in Blood (good against Pristine Angel).
>
> Note though that Terror, Dark Banishing and (to some extent) Nekrataal
> will make your deck weaker against other Black decks.
>
> You could also tranform your deck to include more discard technology:
> Commons: Ravenous Rats, Wrench Mind, Necrogen Spellbomb, Coercion,
> Mind Rot.
> Uncommons: Abyssal Specter, Mind Slash, Mind Sludge.
>
> As Zoe mentioned, non-spell damage cards would keep Hallow at bay:
> Pyrite Spellbomb, Shock Troops, Fodder Cannon, Granite Shard,
> Spitting Spider (against flyers), Soldier Replica, + various white
> damage dealing creatures.
>
> Isochron Scepter (uncommon) is always nice for those cheap instants.
>

I have this one, looks great for simple Remove Soul or Flash Counter
cards. Didn't use it in my current deck though.
What is a good deck size? I always try to limit it to about 64..68 cards,
more cards would only decrease the chance of getting the good ones.

> Pristine Angel (rare card) is difficult to deal with -- you can use
> Barter in Blood, or resort to your own rare (if you have them): Wrath
> of God, Solar Tide, Evacuation, Grave Pact, even Plague Wind.
>
> If you're really desperate, you can use:
> Wing Snare (destroy flying creature), Execute (destroy white
> creature), or Flashfires (destroy all Plains).

Can Wing Snare also destroy the Prestine Angel even if it is untapped?
Because PA has protection from all colors.

"Protection is a DEBT we owe some of our permanents." (26 September 02)
(Footnote B)
Footnote B: DEBT is an acronym. It stands for Damage, Enchantments,
Blocking, and Targeting, which are the 4 things a creature with protection
is protected from.

And Wing Snare targets the PA, right?
Got one Wing Snare in my deck, works very good but I've have never used
it againt an untapped PA because I thought this wasn't possible.

>
> But I personally would not use these as your deck would be generally
> weaker (not to mention, annoying and boring for your friend).
>
> Finally, there are a lot of play tactics that beginners (I am assuming
> since you started playing with 8th ed) do not at first consider.

Absolutely. Playing once a week. Bought a starters kit, a lot of 8th edition
booster packs and only a few from mirrodin, dark steel and fifth dawn.
Now we agreed to buy cards for max. 5 euro each month or reserve
this 'monthly budget' to buy more expensive cards later. This way, it isn't
a question of who has the most money and can buy the best cards, but
more 'have to do whith whatever we have'.

> - Waiting to use your "red sorceries" until he cannot cast Hallow or
> other dmg prevention (tapped out, no hand, you recently cast Coercion,
> etc.)
> - Using creature removal on creatures that pose a big threat (not on
> the first ones they cast).
> - Holding back creatures before casting a Wrath of God, etc.
> - Waiting until the end of their turn to "surprise" them with an
> instant (even taking damage during attack phase). Even if they can
> respond, you untap and now are free to do something else.
>
> Please ignore the above if you are already familiar with them...
>
> Good luck!
> Ken

Thanks,
Marcel
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 3:47:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

Marcel Overweel <moverweel@hotmail.com> sent:
> "Ken" <kfutamura@comcast.net> schreef in bericht
> news:D 069ae6d.0410051253.5000ef6d@posting.google.com...
>>
>> Isochron Scepter (uncommon) is always nice for those cheap instants.
>>

> I have this one, looks great for simple Remove Soul or Flash Counter
> cards. Didn't use it in my current deck though.

I've found it's very good with Magma Jet - in a four-player game with
an awful lot of creature control running around the table, I ended up
with two Vulshok Sorcerors and a Scepter'd Magma Jet being enough to
win the game.

> What is a good deck size? I always try to limit it to about 64..68 cards,
> more cards would only decrease the chance of getting the good ones.

I try to stick to exactly 60 cards, and I build most decks with 24
land to begin with. The land count can change depending on how many
colours you have, how much other acceleration you have, and how
expensive the cards are.

>> Pristine Angel (rare card) is difficult to deal with -- you can use
>> Barter in Blood, or resort to your own rare (if you have them): Wrath
>> of God, Solar Tide, Evacuation, Grave Pact, even Plague Wind.
>>
>> If you're really desperate, you can use:
>> Wing Snare (destroy flying creature), Execute (destroy white
>> creature), or Flashfires (destroy all Plains).

> Can Wing Snare also destroy the Prestine Angel even if it is untapped?

No, it can't. You can't even play a Wing Snare on an untapped Pristine
Angel, as you have to be able to nominate a legal target to play it.
The Angel's protection makes it an illegal target for a green spell.

> Because PA has protection from all colors.

> "Protection is a DEBT we owe some of our permanents." (26 September 02)
> (Footnote B)
> Footnote B: DEBT is an acronym. It stands for Damage, Enchantments,
> Blocking, and Targeting, which are the 4 things a creature with protection
> is protected from.

This has been updated to include Equipping with Enchanting, but it's
otherwise sound.

> And Wing Snare targets the PA, right?
> Got one Wing Snare in my deck, works very good but I've have never used
> it againt an untapped PA because I thought this wasn't possible.

Good - it isn't possible. You need a colourless source that's not
an artifact, or an effect that doesn't target the creature and doesn't
deal damage to it, in order to kill the Pristine Angel. One of the
best suggestions that's been given is Barter in Blood.

>> But I personally would not use these as your deck would be generally
>> weaker (not to mention, annoying and boring for your friend).
>>
>> Finally, there are a lot of play tactics that beginners (I am assuming
>> since you started playing with 8th ed) do not at first consider.

> Absolutely. Playing once a week. Bought a starters kit, a lot of 8th edition
> booster packs and only a few from mirrodin, dark steel and fifth dawn.
> Now we agreed to buy cards for max. 5 euro each month or reserve
> this 'monthly budget' to buy more expensive cards later. This way, it isn't
> a question of who has the most money and can buy the best cards, but
> more 'have to do whith whatever we have'.

Fairly sensible. I play among a group that have been playing the game
for many years, so we have extensive card collections and have a lot of
fun making interesting decks.

--
-- zoe
October 6, 2004 5:07:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

> > If you're really desperate, you can use:
> > Wing Snare (destroy flying creature), Execute (destroy white
> > creature), or Flashfires (destroy all Plains).
>
> Can Wing Snare also destroy the Prestine Angel even if it is untapped?
> Because PA has protection from all colors.

Wing Snare targets the creature, so won't work against Pristine Angel.
I meant that you can use these if you're really desperate about
beating his deck (e.g., color hosers, like Flashfires, Western
Paladin, etc.), not about dealing with Pristine Angel. For the Angel,
use Barter in Blood or one of the rares (if you have them) -- I forgot
Oblivion Stone (rare) also works.

My main suggestion for your deck was to add black (for Creature
removal and Discard). White will have trouble with these. You can
even go with the Royal Assassin (rare) to pick off his creature
tappers (just don't attack with it).

If you're staying with green, Troll Ascetic (rare) is very nice
against white's abilities (dmg/destroy attacking/blocking ctr, etc.).
Non-rares: Giant Growths, Spitting Spider, and Naturalize (or Viridian
Zealot) may be useful.

Artifacts: Fodder Cannon, Whispersilk Cloak is expensive (Lightning
Greaves could be used), Indestructible creatures. Platinum Angel
(rare) is difficult for white to deal with as long as you do not
attack or block with it.

Red: Use lots of direct damage (e.g., Pyroclasm, Shock, Spikeshot
Goblin, etc.) against his key creatures. He'll run out of Hallows...
:-)

Blue: Mana leak, Remove soul work. Another option is bounce:
Unsummon, Boomerang, Regress, Temporal Adept (rare). Personally, I
think blue is one of the weakest colors against white, unless you go
with a control deck or combo-type deck (e.g., affinity).

As for deck construction, always go with 60 cards (unless you're
making a Battle of Wits deck or something). 4-8 extra cards makes it
that much more difficult to get the cards you really need. Use 4 of
each card that you want to have. Use 24 lands until you get a feel
for how the deck plays. Try to smooth your mana curve (not too many
high casting costs spells). Oh, and most importantly, have fun! :-)

Ken
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 7:53:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:07:19 -0400, "War_Pig5"
<dontsendjunk2me@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I forget how to destroy enchantments with green 8th Edition commons (no
>Tranquility). Can someone think of the best way?

Isn't Creeping Mold in 8th? May not be a common, though.
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 9:15:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

> Green takes time to build? Well I guess, but with all that mana
> acceleration
> existing in green, you should be able to get two or three good-sized
> things
> out fast of the spidery or stompy variete fairly fast.

Great suggestion. However, the original poster, Marcel, said he currently
does not have cards that are out-of-print, which means no Llanowar Elves.
Add those to your wish list!

The next best mana acceleration card available (aside from those already
mentioned, like the rare Birds of Paradise) is Vine Trellis (1G; Creature -
Wall; T: Add G to your mana pool.).
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 9:59:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

> This is reminding me to finish building my deck comepletely devoted to
> making my
> opponents stuff fly. Of course it's just like skeet shooting -- Throw 'em
> up and shoot
> 'em down! (Mwa ha ha!)

You're only about 4 years behind me. :)  Hint: Launch is some good.
October 6, 2004 11:41:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

"Mark Landin" <mark.landin@tdwilliamson.com> wrote in message
news:9om8m01bem861lman0nh86hh28i4hptl0q@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:07:19 -0400, "War_Pig5"
> <dontsendjunk2me@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I forget how to destroy enchantments with green 8th Edition commons (no
> >Tranquility). Can someone think of the best way?
>
> Isn't Creeping Mold in 8th? May not be a common, though.

Not sure. It is an uncommon in 7th and Mirrodin I know.

Naturalize works for me. It's two mana, nukes artifacts or enchantments
and to the older players, it looks a lot like Disenchant.

-------
Clayton

Random Tagine:
It's only a problem when someone else finds it.
October 6, 2004 11:50:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

"War_Pig5" <dontsendjunk2me@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:xpydnX8_af5twvncRVn-vg@rcn.net...
> > Green takes time to build? Well I guess, but with all that mana
> > acceleration
> > existing in green, you should be able to get two or three good-sized
> > things
> > out fast of the spidery or stompy variete fairly fast.
>
> Great suggestion. However, the original poster, Marcel, said he currently
> does not have cards that are out-of-print, which means no Llanowar Elves.
> Add those to your wish list!

There are others. I'm fond of the Oddyesy combination of Diligent Farmhand
and Muscle Burst. Creattures, land-fetching and added pumping. It's a
creature trifecta

> The next best mana acceleration card available (aside from those already
> mentioned, like the rare Birds of Paradise) is Vine Trellis (1G;
Creature -
> Wall; T: Add G to your mana pool.).

You forgot to mention Defender (It can't attack). Not like you'd attack
with a
0/X creature. Well I did, and won with a Blood Lusted Wall of Junk. That
was a fun game. That and the one wher I managed to kill my friend only
with an Ornithopter. God that took a long time to do.

-------
Clayton

Random Tagline?
Just how do you fit an Ornithopter with a Skullclamp?
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 1:30:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

Clayton <redneckdadd@yahoo.com> wrote:

> That and the one wher I managed to kill my friend only
> with an Ornithopter.

Your friend has the condolences of Wizards of the Coast. Seriously.
There's a note on page 69 of the Fourth Edition rulebook.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 3:15:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

You mean you don't know which cards are in which set/edition?
I use the card list from a dutch reseller (I'm dutch too).
The address is http://www.gfmailorder.nl
Don't worry about the dutch language. Just click on the magic
bitmap and select one of the sets on the left.
All cards are listed with picture and description.

regards,
Marcel



"Clayton" <redneckdadd@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
news:vKudnaaxz8UaGfncRVn-vQ@rogers.com...
>
> "Mark Landin" <mark.landin@tdwilliamson.com> wrote in message
> news:9om8m01bem861lman0nh86hh28i4hptl0q@4ax.com...
> > On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:07:19 -0400, "War_Pig5"
> > <dontsendjunk2me@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >I forget how to destroy enchantments with green 8th Edition commons (no
> > >Tranquility). Can someone think of the best way?
> >
> > Isn't Creeping Mold in 8th? May not be a common, though.
>
> Not sure. It is an uncommon in 7th and Mirrodin I know.
>
> Naturalize works for me. It's two mana, nukes artifacts or enchantments
> and to the older players, it looks a lot like Disenchant.
>
> -------
> Clayton
>
> Random Tagine:
> It's only a problem when someone else finds it.
>
>
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 7:57:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:15:10 +0200, "Marcel Overweel"
<moverweel@hotmail.com> wrote:

>You mean you don't know which cards are in which set/edition?

Nope. It's not a big priority for me. I hope I can still read the
newsgroup though. :) 
Anonymous
October 9, 2004 5:27:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

> Can Wing Snare also destroy the Prestine Angel even if it is untapped?

No, but I thought of more cards that *can* get rid of an untapped Pristine
Angel, and I added them to the list. Note that these cards do not target
creatures:

Wrath of God, Solar Tide, Kirtar's Wrath, Akroma's Vengeance
Barter in Blood, Grave Pact, even Plague Wind
Anarchy
combos such as: Lure/Thicket Basilisk, Venom/Elvish Bard
or, you can return the card to its owner's hand: Evacuation

> Playing once a week. Bought a starters kit, a lot of 8th edition
> booster packs and only a few from mirrodin, dark steel and fifth dawn.

In light of this, you currently do not have the cards I mentioned above. So
your best strategies against are:

- Win the game before your opponent can cast Pristine Angel (this is the
most popular strategy with top tournament players).
- Counter the Pristine Angel
- Destroy the Pristine Angel while it is tapped, when you are also sure
that your opponent cannot play instant cards that could untap it.

> Now we agreed to buy cards for max. 5 euro each month or reserve
> this 'monthly budget' to buy more expensive cards later. This way, it
> isn't
> a question of who has the most money and can buy the best cards, but
> more 'have to do whith whatever we have'.

I call this a Magic arms treaty. I'm guessing, based on your opponent's
better cards and deck, that he has a head-start on you. Here is how I play
magic without overspending my own personal spending limit:
- trading
- save up about 70 euros and purchase a whole box of cards.
Anonymous
October 13, 2004 10:20:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

Hi,

Yesterday's battle was a lot better.
In the first two battles I played with a little bit modified deck. Added
some blue, removed some green. Added three whispersilk cloaks. Worked
somewhat better but still lost both times. My deck consisted of 65 cards.
Then I decided to concentrate even more on the cards you mentioned (and I
have). Removed 6 cards (mostly green) and added one extra Vex (blue: counter
target spell).
That immediately showed that less cards can be a lot better (or I was having
more luck).

This is my new deck:

green:
1x Vine Trellis
1x Fyndhorn Elder
1x Nantuko Disciple
1x Canopy Spider
2x Giant Spider
2x Spitting Spider
1x Rhox
2x Thorn Elemental
1x Tanglewalker
2x Giant Growth works well in combination with spiders or as preparation
before casting Inferno
2x Rampant Growth
4x Naturalize - he hates them, so that good too (grin)
1x Lure - nice for when my biggies are in the game
1x Wing Snare
2x Nourish (very cheap life gaining: GG: you gain 6 life)

white:
2x Aven Cloudchaser (for the 'whenever .. comes into play, destroy target
enchantment')
1x Circle of Protection: White
1x Pulse of the Fields - he hates this one too.
1x Beacon of Immortality (double total life and shuffle back into library)

blue:
1x Puppeteer (B,tap: tap or untap target creature). Worked VERY good in the
beginning of the thirth game.
1x Flash Counter (nice, but very restrictive, only good for instants)
2x Remove Soul
2x Vex (target spell controller may draw card, but at least not expensive
and not for one specific type)
1x Condescend

red:
1x Flashfires
1x Inferno

other:
3x Whispersilk Cloak
6x forest
2x plain
2x mountain
3x island
1x great furnace (for the fun)
1x ancient den (for when I wanne cast the flashfires)
ALL the dualcolor lands I have:
2x Elfhame Palace
1x Shivan Oasis
1x Costal Tower


The Nantuko Disciple worked very good when my opponent didn't had/use so
much creatures with abilities, now it seems almost useless.
Tanglewalker was an experiment, didn't draw it in any of the three games we
played. Maybe change this for another blue counter or maybe something like
Rampant Growth.
I could enhance it more by swapping some cards for more blue counter spells
and maybe another cloak.
Also a Isochron Scepter could give interesting results.
And I am not sure about the nourish.. ok, it's a cheap life saver but could
use better cards.. don't know yet if I should keep them...
And, yes, I am still puzzling about a combination with black... need more
dual/multicolor lands I guess :) 

Regards,
Marcel

"Ken" <kfutamura@comcast.net> schreef in bericht
news:D 069ae6d.0410061207.6bf9456f@posting.google.com...
> > > If you're really desperate, you can use:
> > > Wing Snare (destroy flying creature), Execute (destroy white
> > > creature), or Flashfires (destroy all Plains).
> >
> > Can Wing Snare also destroy the Prestine Angel even if it is untapped?
> > Because PA has protection from all colors.
>
> Wing Snare targets the creature, so won't work against Pristine Angel.
> I meant that you can use these if you're really desperate about
> beating his deck (e.g., color hosers, like Flashfires, Western
> Paladin, etc.), not about dealing with Pristine Angel. For the Angel,
> use Barter in Blood or one of the rares (if you have them) -- I forgot
> Oblivion Stone (rare) also works.
>
> My main suggestion for your deck was to add black (for Creature
> removal and Discard). White will have trouble with these. You can
> even go with the Royal Assassin (rare) to pick off his creature
> tappers (just don't attack with it).
>
> If you're staying with green, Troll Ascetic (rare) is very nice
> against white's abilities (dmg/destroy attacking/blocking ctr, etc.).
> Non-rares: Giant Growths, Spitting Spider, and Naturalize (or Viridian
> Zealot) may be useful.
>
> Artifacts: Fodder Cannon, Whispersilk Cloak is expensive (Lightning
> Greaves could be used), Indestructible creatures. Platinum Angel
> (rare) is difficult for white to deal with as long as you do not
> attack or block with it.
>
> Red: Use lots of direct damage (e.g., Pyroclasm, Shock, Spikeshot
> Goblin, etc.) against his key creatures. He'll run out of Hallows...
> :-)
>
> Blue: Mana leak, Remove soul work. Another option is bounce:
> Unsummon, Boomerang, Regress, Temporal Adept (rare). Personally, I
> think blue is one of the weakest colors against white, unless you go
> with a control deck or combo-type deck (e.g., affinity).
>
> As for deck construction, always go with 60 cards (unless you're
> making a Battle of Wits deck or something). 4-8 extra cards makes it
> that much more difficult to get the cards you really need. Use 4 of
> each card that you want to have. Use 24 lands until you get a feel
> for how the deck plays. Try to smooth your mana curve (not too many
> high casting costs spells). Oh, and most importantly, have fun! :-)
>
> Ken
Anonymous
October 13, 2004 10:20:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

> And I am not sure about the nourish.. ok, it's a cheap life saver but
could
> use better cards.. don't know yet if I should keep them...

Lifegain is usually pointless unless it gives stupidly large amounts.

Example: A 6/6 creature is attacking you. You say "Ha ha! Nourish!" That
negates that one attack, but it can still attack again next turn and the
next and...

Example 2: 6/6 attacking again. You say "Ha ha! Terror!" Now it's dead.
You've not only killed it, you've effectively gained 6 life also since you
didn't take damage, and even more than 6 really since it won't be attacking
later either.

So obviously here, Terror is the better card, and it usually is. If you
put Nourish on an Isochron, that's not a bad idea, but then you could put
the Terror on it too which would be even better.
I would try to find some better counterspells if I were you. Condescend
and Remove Soul are OK, but there's other good ones like Mana Leak or Power
Sink or Arcane Denial. Also if you're mostly using your Puppeteer to tap his
creatures, Master Decoy would be a cheaper way for you to do that. There's
also a few more red cards you can use to hose white (Disorder, Anarchy) but
you'll need to be careful not to mess yourself up too much since you have
white too. I would really try not to use so many colors either... it gives
you access to many different spells, yes, but it also give you the very real
possibility of having a fistful of spells without the right lands to cast
them. But if it's fun, hey. :) 
Anonymous
October 14, 2004 1:05:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

"Chris Wiegert" <cwiegert@telus.net> schreef in bericht
news:J4ebd.5553$z96.3889@clgrps12...
> > And I am not sure about the nourish.. ok, it's a cheap life saver but
> could
> > use better cards.. don't know yet if I should keep them...
>
> Lifegain is usually pointless unless it gives stupidly large amounts.
>
> Example: A 6/6 creature is attacking you. You say "Ha ha! Nourish!" That
> negates that one attack, but it can still attack again next turn and the
> next and...
>
> Example 2: 6/6 attacking again. You say "Ha ha! Terror!" Now it's dead.
> You've not only killed it, you've effectively gained 6 life also since you
> didn't take damage, and even more than 6 really since it won't be
attacking
> later either.
>

I agree, pulse of the fields works much better for life gaining.
Can use that one several times as long as I keep just below his life. Six is
only six.
Ok then, out with the Nourish :) 

> So obviously here, Terror is the better card, and it usually is. If
you
> put Nourish on an Isochron, that's not a bad idea, but then you could put
> the Terror on it too which would be even better.
> I would try to find some better counterspells if I were you.
Condescend
> and Remove Soul are OK, but there's other good ones like Mana Leak or
Power
> Sink or Arcane Denial.

I've tried mana leak in my old deck a few times. Problem was that my
opponent always had more than enough mana to negate that one.

> Also if you're mostly using your Puppeteer to tap his
> creatures, Master Decoy would be a cheaper way for you to do that.

Had some success by attacking with Rhox (5/5) and using the puppeteer to
untap him to make it a blocker again.
I hope this is a correct way to play it: opponent declares attackers, I use
the puppeteer's untap on rhox and declare it as a blocker?
It is: declare attackers - instants/abilities - declare blockers -
instants/abilities - play out damage ... ?
And if Rhox is equipped with a whispering cloak, both my opponent *and me*
can't target it to use a tap or untap ability, right?

> There's also a few more red cards you can use to hose white (Disorder,
Anarchy) but
> you'll need to be careful not to mess yourself up too much since you have
> white too. I would really try not to use so many colors either... it gives
> you access to many different spells, yes, but it also give you the very
real
> possibility of having a fistful of spells without the right lands to cast
> them. But if it's fun, hey. :) 
>
Oh yeah, it's fun!

Thanks again for the tips Chris!

regards,
Marcel
Anonymous
October 14, 2004 4:23:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:05:19 +0200, "Marcel Overweel"
<moverweel@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Had some success by attacking with Rhox (5/5) and using the puppeteer to
>untap him to make it a blocker again.
>I hope this is a correct way to play it: opponent declares attackers, I use
>the puppeteer's untap on rhox and declare it as a blocker?
>It is: declare attackers - instants/abilities - declare blockers -
>instants/abilities - play out damage ... ?

Yup.
Well, small nitpick: "play out damage" is actually -- assign combat
damage and put it on the stack - instants/abilities - damage resolves
(actually gets dealt) - instants/abilities - end of combat step.

>And if Rhox is equipped with a whispering cloak, both my opponent *and me*
>can't target it to use a tap or untap ability, right?

Right.

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
!