Dead Dragon Deck

[Tim]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

Hi,

I'm trying to build a Red-Black deck that has some meaty dragons in it, and
4 Buried Alives and Necromancy/Zombify to get them out cheap. It'll be my
dracolich, "Dead Dragon Deck".

What other cards should I look at to support this ploy? I'm not inventing
the wheel here, I'm sure.

We play in groups mostly, attack to the left style.

How it looks thus far:
- Have a few Will of the Wisps that I'll play early to stall.
- 5 or 6 large red dragons (various) that I'll "Buried Alive", or hard cast
if I must. I can add to that.
- 3 Form of the Dragon
- 4 Buried Alive
- 4 Necromancy
- 4 Zombify
- 4 Thunderscape Master

Any other cards I should consider adding to this deck? Your experience is
solicted and feedback highly desired.

TIA,

Tim
---------
Thunderscape Master
{2}{R}{R}
Creature -- Wizard
2/2
{B}{B}, {T}: Target player loses 2 life and you gain 2 life.
{G}{G}, {T}: Creatures you control get +2/+2 until end of turn.


Will-o'-the-Wisp
{B}
Creature -- Will-o'-the-Wisp
0/1
Flying
{B}: Regenerate Will-o'-the-Wisp


Zombify
{3}{B}
Sorcery
Return target creature card from your graveyard to play.


Necromancy
{2}{B}
Enchantment
You may play Necromancy any time you could play an instant. If it was played
any time a sorcery couldn't have been played, sacrifice it at end of turn.
When Necromancy comes into play, if it's in play, it becomes an enchant
creature. Put target creature card from a graveyard into play under your
control enchanted by Necromancy.
When Necromancy leaves play, destroy enchanted creature. It can't be
regenerated.


Form of the Dragon
{4}{R}{R}{R}
Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, Form of the Dragon deals 5 damage to target
creature or player.
At the end of each turn, your life total becomes 5.
Creatures without flying can't attack you.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

From the Collected Witterings of Tim, volume 23:

> How it looks thus far:
> - Have a few Will of the Wisps that I'll play early to stall.

You're better playing creature-kill spells - they don't tie up your mana
every turn, they give you a better board position when you finally get out a
Dragon and they also provide you with extra reanimation targets.

> - 5 or 6 large red dragons (various) that I'll "Buried Alive", or hard
> cast if I must.

Why just red dragons? This kind of deck can get enormous mileage from
running Kokusho, the Evening Star. Buried Alive for three of them then cast
Patriarch's Bidding and boom! - thirty point life swing.

--
Who the f--k are you calling insolent?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to build a Red-Black deck that has some meaty dragons in it,
and
> 4 Buried Alives and Necromancy/Zombify to get them out cheap. It'll be my
> dracolich, "Dead Dragon Deck".

I hope you've got Bladewing the Risen in there somewhere then... not
only perfect flavor, but he'll help bring back other dragons along the way
too. If you want your friends to hate you, you can stick the Animate
Dead/Worldgorger Dragon trick in there.
A big problem of fattie decks like this, as you've no doubt discovered,
is that although it's lots of fun when it gets going, the first turns can be
spent staring at your hand and whistling tunelessly. The Wisps are a good
stalling idea. Maybe use Fog of Gnats too. You might consider Dragonspeaker
Shamans also as a small threat deterrent and a way to get dragons out
sooner. If you only have 5 or 6 dragons though, might not be worth it.
Better to stock up on creature kill to hold the fort. Put in 4 Terminates if
you haven't already. You'll probably want some card drawing to find your
combo too. Bazaar of Baghdad would be cool, but in the very likely chance
that you don't have any, Jalum Tome is a decent substitute... draw cards and
discard your dragons. Entomb is good if you have some. Sneak Attack could be
fun too. Gamble could be a fun card if you feel lucky... tutor up a
reanimation spell and hope you discard a dragon. Have fun with it!

 

[Tim]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

> Any other cards I should consider adding to this deck? Your experience is
> solicted and feedback highly desired.

I've added some Hymn to Tourach's and Wrench Minds to discard myself if I
happen to have heavy-cost dragons in my hand.

And will consider getting some Patriarch's Bidding to return all dragons
from Graveyard to play.

Over to you... Anything else? I'm on the right track? Way off base?

TIA,

Tim

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

Tim <tim@blah.com> sent:
>> Any other cards I should consider adding to this deck? Your experience is
>> solicted and feedback highly desired.

> I've added some Hymn to Tourach's and Wrench Minds to discard myself if I
> happen to have heavy-cost dragons in my hand.

Eesh, that's probably not the best way of going about it. Especially
not with Hymn to Tourach - that's much much better aimed at opponents.
If you don't mind a trip into blue, there are plenty of card-selection
spells and effects that make you draw and then discard. You may also
get some use from Anvil of Bogardan:

Anvil of Bogardan {2} Artifact
/ Players have no maximum hand size.
/ At the beginning of each player's draw step, that player draws a card,
then discards a card from his or her hand.

Or even Necrogen Mists:

Necrogen Mists {2}{B} Enchantment
/ At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player discards a card
from his or her hand.

> And will consider getting some Patriarch's Bidding to return all dragons
> from Graveyard to play.

I did the same kind of thing, only with Living Death and Bladewing the
Risen. I used Harrow and a number of other useful green cards to get
a decent mana base and search for dragons. I also added Bladewing's
Thrall in there:

Bladewing's Thrall {2}{B}{B} Creature -- Zombie 3/3
/ Bladewing's Thrall has flying as long as you control a Dragon.
/ When a Dragon comes into play, you may return Bladewing's Thrall from
your graveyard to play.

It wasn't a particularly good deck, though, just for fun. Players tend
to try very hard to kill you if you've got a dragon out.

> Over to you... Anything else? I'm on the right track? Way off base?

If possible, you want to be discarding a card to power some effect,
then reanimating it, rather than hitting yourself with discard spells.
I remember a time when Mind Bomb was used for that kind of thing...

Mind Bomb {U} Sorcery
/ Each player may discard up to three cards from his or her hand. Mind
Bomb deals damage to each player equal to 3 minus the number of cards
he or she discarded this way.

Remember too that some of your animation spells can get your opponents'
creatures.

I'd look for ways to go about discarding without hitting yourself with
the discard spells, then build a deck and try it out. See where the
problems lie, and then see if that inspires us.

--
-- zoe

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:47:27 +0000, Chris Wiegert wrote:

>> I'm trying to build a Red-Black deck that has some meaty dragons in it,
> and
>> 4 Buried Alives and Necromancy/Zombify to get them out cheap. It'll be my
>> dracolich, "Dead Dragon Deck".
>
> I hope you've got Bladewing the Risen in there somewhere then... not
> only perfect flavor, but he'll help bring back other dragons along the way
> too. If you want your friends to hate you, you can stick the Animate
> Dead/Worldgorger Dragon trick in there.

Might want to add some Balthor the Defiled to this deck. With him and the
Buried Alives, you won't even need to use mountains. With Zombify and/or
Necromancy, you could even use off-color dragons. Four Terrors and Four
Dark Rituals for the early game would probably help a great deal.

K

--
In vino veritas
http://openwine.net

 

[Tim]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

>> If you want your friends to hate you, you can stick the Animate
>> Dead/Worldgorger Dragon trick in there.

What is the AD/WG trick? If it comes into play you still lose all your permanents -
that includes all land. So if the next turn it gets, say, pacified you're screwed.
So... I must be missing something.


> Might want to add some Balthor the Defiled to this deck.

He's cool. Thanks for that!


Tim

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

Tim <XX@nah.com> wrote:
>>> If you want your friends to hate you, you can stick the Animate
>>> Dead/Worldgorger Dragon trick in there.
>
>What is the AD/WG trick? If it comes into play you still lose all your permanents -
>that includes all land. So if the next turn it gets, say, pacified you're screwed.
>So... I must be missing something.

"All your permanents" includes? The Animate Dead...

Dave "with no other creature cards in any graveyard, and if nobody stops the
loop, the game's a draw" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

"David DeLaney" <dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote in message
news:slrncskdas.3h8.dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com...
> Tim <XX@nah.com> wrote:
>>>> If you want your friends to hate you, you can stick the Animate
>>>> Dead/Worldgorger Dragon trick in there.
>>
>>What is the AD/WG trick? If it comes into play you still lose all your
>>permanents -
>>that includes all land. So if the next turn it gets, say, pacified you're
>>screwed.
>>So... I must be missing something.
>
> "All your permanents" includes? The Animate Dead...
>
> Dave "with no other creature cards in any graveyard, and if nobody stops
> the
> loop, the game's a draw" DeLaney

To clarify..

Animate Dead
1B
Enchantment
When Animate Dead comes into play, if it's in play, it becomes an enchant
creature. Put target creature card from a graveyard into play under your
control enchanted by Animate Dead.
Enchanted creature gets -1/-0.
When Animate Dead leaves play, destroy enchanted creature. It can't be
regenerated.

Worldgorger Dragon
3RRR
Creature - Nightmare Dragon
7/7
Flying, trample
When Worldgorger Dragon comes into play, remove all other permanents you
control from the game.
When Worldgorger Dragon leaves play, return the removed cards to play under
their owners' control.


So.. assuming nobody responds to any of what happens..
WGD is in your graveyard. You play Animate Dead, targetting the WGD. WGD
comes into play with AD enchanting it. As an effect of WGD coming into play,
it removes all other permanents you control from the game - including the
AD. Since the AD is leaving play, it forces the WGD back into the graveyard.
Since the WGD leaves play, it returns all permanents removed via its CIP
ability back to play - which includes the AD. You then retarget the WGD and
start the process all over again.

What is this good for? For having a WGD in your graveyard and spending B1,
amongst other things all lands you control get removed from game and then
returned to play, as though you had just played them. This usually means
they come into play untapped, so you tap them each time they make it into
play. What's all this mana good for? What can you play as an instant that
can win you the game that costs as much mana as you want to put into it?
Common uses are cards like Stroke of Genius (for more than what's in their
library, so they lose as an SBE while the combo is still trying to resolve;
or Ghitu Fire, which allows you to burn away their life total, whatever it
happens to be at.

Hope this clears things up.

Erich

 

[Tim]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

> To clarify..
>

<snip>

yes, thank you Erich. The coming back untapped from being out of the game is the bit
I was missing. For some reason I figured if it was tapped when it left the game,
it'd come back tapped. Obviously not the case. Being a Black-Red deck I'll need a
burn spell, or that Drain Life spell which lets you pay B or R.

cheers,

Tim

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

"Tim" <XX@nah.com> wrote in message
news:QDnAd.50$d65.2439@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
>> To clarify..
> <snip>

[Snipped portion was explanation on how Animate Dead and Worldgorger Dragon
interact]

> yes, thank you Erich. The coming back untapped from being out of the game
> is the bit I was missing. For some reason I figured if it was tapped when
> it left the game, it'd come back tapped. Obviously not the case. Being a
> Black-Red deck I'll need a burn spell, or that Drain Life spell which lets
> you pay B or R.

I think you mean Soul Burn. The problem with a lot of the spells you're
thinking of is that they're primarily sorceries. Animate Dead + Worldgorger
is a stacking combo - in other words, everything that happens goes on the
stack, and X happens in response to Y, and then Z happens in response to X,
and so forth. You have no opportunity to play sorceries (usually) when
there's spells/abilities on the stack. So, you need one of three things:

1. An instant X spell to win you the game, like Volcanic Geyser; OR

2. A sorcery X spell that can be played as an instant, like Ghitu Fire; OR

3. A second target in a graveyard for the Animate Dead, like Vampiric
Dragon.

As for the bit about when a card leaves the game - the rules stipulate (I'll
have to find the rule elsewhere) that apart from the Phased-Out Zone,
whenever a card leaves one zone and goes to another, it loses all memory of
whatever condition it was in when it was in the other zone. In other words,
if you play Otherworldly Journey on a Phage the Untouchable, it doesn't
remember if you played it from your hand or not - it's coming into play by
another means, and so you'll lose the game. (Phage's Oracle text: When Phage
the Untouchable comes into play, if you didn't play it from your hand, you
lose the game. // Whenever Phage deals combat damage to a creature, destroy
that creature. It can't be regenerated. // Whenever Phage deals combat
damage to a player, that player loses the game.) By the same token, when the
lands leave play because of Worldgorger Dragon coming into play, they will
leave play and lose all memory of whether they were tapped, untapped, had
any counters on them, and so forth, so when they return to play it will be
as if they were just played. This means, for instance, that Peat Bog will
come into play tapped with two counters on it.

Hope this helps!

Erich

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 08:56:10 -0500, "Erich Leibrock"
<eleibrock@symDELETETHECAPSpatico.ca> wrote:

Reference: Worldgorger Dragon/Animate Dead combo:

>What is this good for? For having a WGD in your graveyard and spending B1,
>amongst other things all lands you control get removed from game and then
>returned to play, as though you had just played them. This usually means
>they come into play untapped, so you tap them each time they make it into
>play. What's all this mana good for? What can you play as an instant that
>can win you the game that costs as much mana as you want to put into it?
>Common uses are cards like Stroke of Genius (for more than what's in their
>library, so they lose as an SBE while the combo is still trying to resolve;
>or Ghitu Fire, which allows you to burn away their life total, whatever it
>happens to be at.
>
Another common kill card is Ambassador Laquatus (in the 'yard). Once
you gain enough mana, target Laquatus when AD comes into play. Use
the mana to mill your opponent. Yes, you have to wait until their
draw phase to win, but you also avoid counterspells on your kill card
(assuming you got the AD off in the first place) and thereby avoid
unintentional draws with the deck. (If you have no other creature
cards to Animate, you have an unbounded loop. Without any other way
to stop it, the game is drawn.)

-- pseudosoldier

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

Tim wrote:

>> Might want to add some Balthor the Defiled to this deck.
>
> He's cool. Thanks for that!

I was thinking more about Balthor. What the deck needs, even if we're not
casting most of the dragons, is mana acceleration. With Balthor, you could
have the interesting scenario of using a number of red dragons without any
mountains or red mana. Sakura-Tribe elders for blocking, Llanowar elves,
etc. If you draw any pesky red cards, something like Necrogen Mists might
help you get the cards into the graveyard and keep your opponent under
control. In this sense, it's better than the black shrine, and cheaper to
boot.

Anyway, I like the idea and will try to put it together, hopefully over the
weekend. We'll see how that goes.

K