Non-duplicate cities - part I

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We've had questions about duplicate city names in rec.puzzles
recently. Here's the first of two about cities that don't have
duplicates.

1. What is the largest US city that has a unique name? 'Unique'
here means that no other place in the US has the same name. The
link below is to a list of the largest cities in the US.

http://www.demographia.com/db-uscity98.htm

Note that for the purposes of this question, Nashville-Davidson
should be considered to be named just Nashville.

Bonus: according to GNIS, there are 8 unique names among the top
50 cities. Name as many as you can. Naturally, the idea is to
name them without doing any queries on GNIS.

--
Dan Tilque

 

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"Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote in message
news:108955ngknlsrc3@corp.supernews.com...
> We've had questions about duplicate city names in rec.puzzles
> recently. Here's the first of two about cities that don't have
> duplicates.
>
> 1. What is the largest US city that has a unique name? 'Unique'
> here means that no other place in the US has the same name. The
> link below is to a list of the largest cities in the US.
>
> http://www.demographia.com/db-uscity98.htm
>
> Note that for the purposes of this question, Nashville-Davidson
> should be considered to be named just Nashville.
>
> Bonus: according to GNIS, there are 8 unique names among the top
> 50 cities. Name as many as you can. Naturally, the idea is to
> name them without doing any queries on GNIS.

It seems like everywhere you go, there's another city named "El Pueblo de
Nuestra Senora la Reina de Los Angeles de Porciuncula."

 

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Steve Grant wrote:

> "Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote in message
> news:108955ngknlsrc3@corp.supernews.com...

>> 1. What is the largest US city that has a unique name?
>> 'Unique' here means that no other place in the US has the
>> same name. The link below is to a list of the largest cities
>> in the US.
>>
>> http://www.demographia.com/db-uscity98.htm
>>
>> Note that for the purposes of this question, Nashville-
>> Davidson should be considered to be named just Nashville.
>
> It seems like everywhere you go, there's another city named
> "El Pueblo de Nuestra Senora la Reina de Los Angeles de
> Porciuncula."

Oh, absolutely. Why there's three of them in Rhode Island
alone...

OK, for the purposes of this question, use the names as they are
on that list except for Nashville as I indicated above. Note that
this means it's just New York, not New York City. (The 'city'
after the names on that list most likely comes from the way the
Census Bureau shows the names in their database.)

--
Dan Tilque

 

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Dan Tilque wrote:
> Steve Grant wrote:
>>"Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>1. What is the largest US city that has a unique name?
>>>'Unique' here means that no other place in the US has the
>>>same name. The link below is to a list of the largest cities
>>>in the US.
>>>
>>>http://www.demographia.com/db-uscity98.htm
>>>
>>>Note that for the purposes of this question, Nashville-
>>>Davidson should be considered to be named just Nashville.
>>
>>It seems like everywhere you go, there's another city named
>>"El Pueblo de Nuestra Senora la Reina de Los Angeles de
>>Porciuncula."
>
> Oh, absolutely. Why there's three of them in Rhode Island
> alone...
>
> OK, for the purposes of this question, use the names as they are
> on that list except for Nashville as I indicated above. Note that
> this means it's just New York, not New York City. (The 'city'
> after the names on that list most likely comes from the way the
> Census Bureau shows the names in their database.)

Well, if you select the names from the list then each city has a
unique name - isn't that true by definition? By "place," I guess
you're implying that there's a conflict between New York the state
and New York the city (or New York the mountains in CA). There's a
Los Angeles in Texas. What criteria are you using to prove the
negative (there's no other place in the US with the same name)?

--Jeff

--
A man, a plan, a cat, a canal - Panama!

Those who do not learn from history are
doomed to repeat it. --George Santayana

Unthinking respect for authority is the
greatest enemy of truth. --Albert Einstein

Freedom's just another word for nothing
left to lose. --Kris Kristofferson

 

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Jeffrey Turner wrote:

>>> "Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> 1. What is the largest US city that has a unique name?
>>>> 'Unique' here means that no other place in the US has the
>>>> same name.
>
> Well, if you select the names from the list then each city has
> a unique name - isn't that true by definition? By "place," I
> guess you're implying that there's a conflict between New York
> the state and New York the city (or New York the mountains in
> CA). There's a Los Angeles in Texas. What criteria are you
> using to prove the negative (there's no other place in the US
> with the same name)?

By place, I mean populated place. So the mountains are right out.
Also the state.

As far as proving the negative, I can't do it any more than you
can. But there are large databases with US placenames. If they
aren't in any of those, we'll consider it proven unless someone
finds evidence of a place outside them.

--
Dan Tilque

 

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Dan Tilque wrote:
> Jeffrey Turner wrote:
>>>>"Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>1. What is the largest US city that has a unique name?
>>>>>'Unique' here means that no other place in the US has the
>>>>>same name.
>>
>>Well, if you select the names from the list then each city has
>>a unique name - isn't that true by definition? By "place," I
>>guess you're implying that there's a conflict between New York
>>the state and New York the city (or New York the mountains in
>>CA). There's a Los Angeles in Texas. What criteria are you
>>using to prove the negative (there's no other place in the US
>>with the same name)?
>
> By place, I mean populated place. So the mountains are right out.
> Also the state.
>
> As far as proving the negative, I can't do it any more than you
> can. But there are large databases with US placenames. If they
> aren't in any of those, we'll consider it proven unless someone
> finds evidence of a place outside them.

There's a "New York Mills" in Minnesota but I'd be surprised if
there's another New York in North America. There's an East New
York in Brooklyn and a West New York in Joisey. Seems to me that
if you ask the question backwards, where can you find a duplicate
of each city on the list... There's a plain old York in Ontario,
isn't there?

--Jeff

--
A man, a plan, a cat, a canal - Panama!

Those who do not learn from history are
doomed to repeat it. --George Santayana

Unthinking respect for authority is the
greatest enemy of truth. --Albert Einstein

Freedom's just another word for nothing
left to lose. --Kris Kristofferson

 

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Jeffrey Turner wrote:

> Dan Tilque wrote:
>> Jeffrey Turner wrote:
>>>>> "Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> 1. What is the largest US city that has a unique name?
>>>>>> 'Unique' here means that no other place in the US has the
>>>>>> same name.
>
> There's a "New York Mills" in Minnesota but I'd be surprised if
> there's another New York in North America. There's an East New
> York in Brooklyn and a West New York in Joisey. Seems to me
> that if you ask the question backwards, where can you find a
> duplicate of each city on the list... There's a plain old
> York in Ontario, isn't there?

Let me define 'unique' a bit more specifically. To make a name
non-unique, the other place has to have exactly the same name. No
extra words or partial names. That means New York Mills MN is not
the same as New York. Nor are various Yorks the same as New York,
either.

However, as a hint, I'll tell you that New York is not unique.
There's several others in the US, not counting the four in
England which don't apply to this question.

Note that the other places have to be in the US, although adding
in Canada does not change the answer to this question. It does
for the bonus question (8 unique names among the top 50), though.

--
Dan Tilque

 

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Dan Tilque wrote:
> Jeffrey Turner wrote:
>
>
>>Dan Tilque wrote:
>>
>>>Jeffrey Turner wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>"Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>1. What is the largest US city that has a unique name?
>>>>>>>'Unique' here means that no other place in the US has the
>>>>>>>same name.
>>>>>>
>>There's a "New York Mills" in Minnesota but I'd be surprised if
>>there's another New York in North America. There's an East New
>>York in Brooklyn and a West New York in Joisey. Seems to me
>>that if you ask the question backwards, where can you find a
>>duplicate of each city on the list... There's a plain old
>>York in Ontario, isn't there?
>
>
> Let me define 'unique' a bit more specifically. To make a name
> non-unique, the other place has to have exactly the same name. No
> extra words or partial names. That means New York Mills MN is not
> the same as New York. Nor are various Yorks the same as New York,
> either.
>
> However, as a hint, I'll tell you that New York is not unique.
> There's several others in the US, not counting the four in
> England which don't apply to this question.
>
> Note that the other places have to be in the US, although adding
> in Canada does not change the answer to this question. It does
> for the bonus question (8 unique names among the top 50), though.
>
Well if New York is out, how about "Oklahoma City"? And I bet there
aren't too many Sault Ste. Maries, but I doubt if its in the 50 largest
US cities.

Clay

 

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Jeffrey Turner:
> > There's a plain old York in Ontario, isn't there?

Not since 1998.

Dan Tilque:
> However, as a hint, I'll tell you that New York is not unique.
> There's several others in the US...

Okay, how about Chicago, then?
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "The E-Mail of the species is more deadly
msb@vex.net | than the Mail." -- Peter Neumann

 

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Mark Brader wrote:
> Jeffrey Turner:
>
>>>There's a plain old York in Ontario, isn't there?
>
> Not since 1998.

Hydroelectric inundation?

> Dan Tilque:
>
>>However, as a hint, I'll tell you that New York is not unique.
>>There's several others in the US...
>
> Okay, how about Chicago, then?

The obvious next guess.
Where are the other New Yorks? Can I use my subway tokens there?

--Jeff

--
A man, a plan, a cat, a canal - Panama!

Those who do not learn from history are
doomed to repeat it. --George Santayana

Unthinking respect for authority is the
greatest enemy of truth. --Albert Einstein

Freedom's just another word for nothing
left to lose. --Kris Kristofferson

 

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Jeffrey Turner wrote:

> Mark Brader wrote:
>> Jeffrey Turner:
>>
>>>> There's a plain old York in Ontario, isn't there?
>>
>> Not since 1998.
>
> Hydroelectric inundation?

Gobbled up by T-town.


>> Dan Tilque:
>>
>>> However, as a hint, I'll tell you that New York is not
>>> unique. There's several others in the US...
>>
>> Okay, how about Chicago, then?

Is that your final answer? Maybe I should have made this a
multiple choice question. OK, it's one of these:

A. Chicago
B. Indianapolis
C. Seattle
D. Fort Worth
E. Oklahoma City
F. Tucson

> Where are the other New Yorks? Can I use my subway tokens
> there?

FL, IA, KY, MO, NM, TX. And there used to be New Yorks in GA, MS,
OH, TN, and another in MO. If you can find a subway in any of
them, I'm sure they'd let you use your tokens.

--
Dan Tilque

 

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Dan Tilque wrote:

> 1. What is the largest US city that has a unique name? 'Unique'
> here means that no other place in the US has the same name.
>
> Bonus: according to GNIS, there are 8 unique names among the
> top 50 cities. Name as many as you can. Naturally, the idea is
> to name them without doing any queries on GNIS.

In answering this, I'm going to answer the bonus question first.
According to GNIS, the 8 unique cities among the largest 50 are:

23. Seattle
27. Fort Worth
29. Oklahoma City
31. New Orleans
35. Albuquerque
38. Virginia Beach[1]
42. Tulsa
47. Colorado Springs

So the answer to the question is Seattle, right? Well, maybe. It
seems that there is, or at least was, a Seattle in Texas:

http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/view/SS/hvs62
..html

So the answer is either Seattle or Fort Worth. I was prepared to
accept either answer.

As for Chicago, GNIS has one each in Wisconsin and Michigan.
There also used to be one in Kentucky. A couple pages on the net
say that it's been renamed to St. Francis.

--
Dan Tilque

[1] There's a Virginia Beach in Ontario, which is why the answer
to the bonus question would change if it were extended to Canada.

 

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Dan Tilque (dtilque@nwlink.com) writes:
> We've had questions about duplicate city names in rec.puzzles
> recently. Here's the first of two about cities that don't have
> duplicates.
>
> 1. What is the largest US city that has a unique name? 'Unique'
> here means that no other place in the US has the same name. The
> link below is to a list of the largest cities in the US.

Without looking at the link, my answer is Seattle. Since the city
is named after a local Indian chief, I'd expect the name to be unique.
Then again, there might be cities bigger than Seattle that also are
unique.

(Yeah, this posting is coming late, but my ISP's newsfeed was severed
for a couple of days.)




--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, sommar@algonet.se

 

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Erland Sommarskog wrote:

> Dan Tilque (dtilque@nwlink.com) writes:
>>
>> 1. What is the largest US city that has a unique name?
>> 'Unique' here means that no other place in the US has the
>> same name. The link below is to a list of the largest cities
>> in the US.
>
> Without looking at the link, my answer is Seattle. Since the
> city is named after a local Indian chief, I'd expect the name
> to be unique. Then again, there might be cities bigger than
> Seattle that also are unique.

Congratulations. You got one of two possible answers. I assume by
now you and your ISP have caught up with my answer message and
know what the other is.

BTW, there are only two cities larger than Seattle that have
names derived from Indian words/names: Chicago and Milwaukee.
I've discussed Chicago in another message. There are two other
Milwaukees, one in North Carolina and one in Penn. There's also a
Milwaukie in Oregon, but that one is spelled a bit different.

--
Dan Tilque

 

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Dan Tilque (dtilque@nwlink.com) writes:
> Congratulations. You got one of two possible answers. I assume by
> now you and your ISP have caught up with my answer message and
> know what the other is.

Actually, I don't think that particular posting have made it here yet.
But there is always Google...

I should consider myself that I never looked at the link you posted with
your original puzzle. In that case, I would have gone by Indianapolis.

I was stunned when I saw that list. "Isn't Seattle larger than this?".
But I see on citypopulation.de that the metropolitan area is over three
millions, which makes more sense to me.

(Seattle is the only place in the US I've been to.)


--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, sommar@algonet.se

 

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Erland Sommarskog wrote:

>
> I was stunned when I saw that list. "Isn't Seattle larger than
> this?". But I see on citypopulation.de that the metropolitan
> area is over three millions, which makes more sense to me.

If you want to see some extreme cases of that, check out Sydney,
Melbourne, Adelaide, and Perth, Australia. All these metro areas
are over 1m, yet the cities with those names are all rather
small. The largest is Melbourne with some 68,000 people.

--
Dan Tilque

 

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Dan Tilque (dtilque@nwlink.com) writes:
> If you want to see some extreme cases of that, check out Sydney,
> Melbourne, Adelaide, and Perth, Australia. All these metro areas
> are over 1m, yet the cities with those names are all rather
> small. The largest is Melbourne with some 68,000 people.

But there are other "Local Government Areas" that are bigger than the
the Area that gives name to the "Principal Urban Centres".

Another example is London. London is listed in citypopulation.de with
some 7-8 million people, and I would guess that this is the area that
Ken Livingstone rules over. But anyone who has been to City of London,
knows that there cannot be very many people living in that area.

That is a problem with these sorts of questions. The adminstrative borders
may differ considerably with the general notion of the place. You could
use numbers for metropolitan areas, but unfortunately neither they are
clearcut and may depend on local quirks.


--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, sommar@algonet.se

 

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Dan Tilque:
> > If you want to see some extreme cases of that, check out Sydney,
> > Melbourne, Adelaide, and Perth, Australia. All these metro areas
> > are over 1m, yet the cities with those names are all rather
> > small. The largest is Melbourne with some 68,000 people.

Erland Sommarskog:
> Another example is London. London is listed in citypopulation.de with
> some 7-8 million people, and I would guess that this is the area that
> Ken Livingstone rules over. But anyone who has been to City of London,
> knows that there cannot be very many people living in that area.

About 7,000, in fact. Also of interest is that "London" is generally
cited as the capital of England and of the UK, when the seat of govern-
ment is actually in the adjacent City of Westminster (of considerably
larger area, and population about 180,000). Obviously "London" as
used here here means the conurbation, or the major part of it, and
not the City itself.

> That is a problem with these sorts of questions. The adminstrative
> borders may differ considerably with the general notion of the place.

True. As well as cases like the above, the reverse also occurs;
for example, the entire island of Oahu is under a single municipal
government, the City and County of Honolulu.
--
Mark Brader | "I've just checked my dictionary, though, and it does
msb@vex.net | not agree with me, which just goes to show how wrong
Toronto | dictionaries can be." --Gary Williams

My text in this article is in the public domain.

 

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Is it possible that when you say "the City of London" you are
referring to what is commonly referred to as "the City", i.e. the
financial district... which was shelled by the IRA a few years back?

And surely you know of at least one other country whose capital and
seat of government occupy two different cities? To make it more
challenging, the country must have only one capital.

It's hard to see what you find unusual about the Oahu/Honolulu
situation. One city, one county, one island. This is not strange.

Did you know that Henry Miller was not born in New York City?


msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote in message news:<108od7t7247hsc5@corp.supernews.com>...
> Dan Tilque:
> > > If you want to see some extreme cases of that, check out Sydney,
> > > Melbourne, Adelaide, and Perth, Australia. All these metro areas
> > > are over 1m, yet the cities with those names are all rather
> > > small. The largest is Melbourne with some 68,000 people.
>
> Erland Sommarskog:
> > Another example is London. London is listed in citypopulation.de with
> > some 7-8 million people, and I would guess that this is the area that
> > Ken Livingstone rules over. But anyone who has been to City of London,
> > knows that there cannot be very many people living in that area.
>
> About 7,000, in fact. Also of interest is that "London" is generally
> cited as the capital of England and of the UK, when the seat of govern-
> ment is actually in the adjacent City of Westminster (of considerably
> larger area, and population about 180,000). Obviously "London" as
> used here here means the conurbation, or the major part of it, and
> not the City itself.
>
> > That is a problem with these sorts of questions. The adminstrative
> > borders may differ considerably with the general notion of the place.
>
> True. As well as cases like the above, the reverse also occurs;
> for example, the entire island of Oahu is under a single municipal
> government, the City and County of Honolulu.

 

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Teabag (teabag420@hotmail.com) writes:
> Is it possible that when you say "the City of London" you are
> referring to what is commonly referred to as "the City", i.e. the
> financial district... which was shelled by the IRA a few years back?

Yes, that is what Mark refers to. If you walk the streets of City
of London, you will find that the signs with the street names bears
the name "City of London". If you walk westwards, at some point the
signs with read "City of Westminster" or "City of Holborn". Further
afield is the "Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea".

(Note: I'm a little dim on the exact status of Holborn.)


--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, sommar@algonet.se

 

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Teabag (teabag420@hotmail.com) writes:
> And surely you know of at least one other country whose capital and
> seat of government occupy two different cities? To make it more
> challenging, the country must have only one capital.

You might be thinking of the Netherlands? The Hague is often counted
as a captial, but officially I don't think it is.

What about a country where the king and the queen lives somewhere else
than the capital? And in this case there is definitely not any alternative
capital.

> It's hard to see what you find unusual about the Oahu/Honolulu
> situation. One city, one county, one island. This is not strange.

I guess the thing is that the "city" includes a lot countryside area which
is not very densly populated.

Way back when Sweden still formally had cities, the world's greatest city
by area was Kiruna. Most of that "city" was roadless wasteland.

--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, sommar@algonet.se

 

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Erland Sommarskog <sommar@algonet.se> wrote in message news:<Xns94D781DFA7CF2Yazorman@127.0.0.1>...

in response to TeaBag420 writing:

> > It's hard to see what you find unusual about the Oahu/Honolulu
> > situation. One city, one county, one island. This is not strange.
>
> I guess the thing is that the "city" includes a lot countryside area which
> is not very densly populated.


Yes, and the women wear skirts and the men wear pants, so what? And
besides, it's not "the city" it's "The City and County of Honolulu",
with an area of 1560 square kilometers. Kindly keep your nose out of
our wahinis. That's some fine poontang, bruddah.

 

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"Erland Sommarskog" <sommar@algonet.se> wrote in message
news:Xns94D781DFA7CF2Yazorman@127.0.0.1...
> Teabag (teabag420@hotmail.com) writes:
> > And surely you know of at least one other country whose capital and
> > seat of government occupy two different cities? To make it more
> > challenging, the country must have only one capital.
>
> You might be thinking of the Netherlands? The Hague is often counted
> as a captial, but officially I don't think it is.

Israel is one example.
To get tricky, are there still people claiming to represent mainland China
in Taiwan?

>
> What about a country where the king and the queen lives somewhere else
> than the capital? And in this case there is definitely not any alternative
> capital.
>

Much of the British Commonwealth for starters...

<snip>

--
Errol Cavit | errolGEEcee@hotmail.com |"NZ sent its men to support the
Empire in 1914 not so much to create a debt of gratitude or to prove itself
as a nation, but rather to sustain a security system within which it
believed all the country's defence needs could be met at an acceptable
cost." _The Path to Gallipoli_ 1991 Ian McGibbon

 

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Based on my cursory reading, Amsterdam is indeed the capital yet not
the seat of government of the Netherlands.

http://www.minbuza.nl/default.asp?CMS_ITEM=MBZ300152#TOC_2

Israel was indeed the country I was thinking of.

>To get tricky, are there still people claiming to represent mainland
China
> in Taiwan?

"Claiming" is the problem. There is no one on Taiwan today who is
either a de facto or de jure ruler of China. You might as well ask
about Emperor Norton of San Francisco.

> >
> > What about a country where the king and the queen lives somewhere else
> > than the capital? And in this case there is definitely not any alternative
> > capital.

Again, the Netherlands, but see the qualification below.

Some would say Israel, but that's on the downlow.

Would you consider the heir of the Shah of Iran the king of his
country? I'm not sure I would.

If you want to consider a country that hasn't had a queen for about
a thousand years (and that would be changing the letter, though
perhaps not the inent of the puzzle), Tibet is an easy answer.

Doesn't Spain still have a king? And Albania?

But, the puzzle says "king and queen". I don't want to be a
puzzle-changer.


"Errol Cavit" <errolc@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<c6ir04$3jh$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>...
> "Erland Sommarskog" <sommar@algonet.se> wrote in message
> news:Xns94D781DFA7CF2Yazorman@127.0.0.1...
> > Teabag (teabag420@hotmail.com) writes:
> > > And surely you know of at least one other country whose capital and
> > > seat of government occupy two different cities? To make it more
> > > challenging, the country must have only one capital.
> >
> > You might be thinking of the Netherlands? The Hague is often counted
> > as a captial, but officially I don't think it is.
>
> Israel is one example.
> To get tricky, are there still people claiming to represent mainland China
> in Taiwan?
>
> >
> > What about a country where the king and the queen lives somewhere else
> > than the capital? And in this case there is definitely not any alternative
> > capital.
> >
>
> Much of the British Commonwealth for starters...
>
> <snip>

 

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"Errol Cavit" <errolc@hotmail.com> writes:

> "Erland Sommarskog" <sommar@algonet.se> wrote in message
> news:Xns94D781DFA7CF2Yazorman@127.0.0.1...
> > Teabag (teabag420@hotmail.com) writes:
> > > And surely you know of at least one other country whose capital and
> > > seat of government occupy two different cities? To make it more
> > > challenging, the country must have only one capital.
> >
> > You might be thinking of the Netherlands? The Hague is often counted
> > as a captial, but officially I don't think it is.
>
> Israel is one example.

Israel is a questionable example. Israel considers Jerusalem its
capital, but only a few other countries recognize that; most of the
embassies are in Tel Aviv.

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