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Rare Entries MSB41: contest begins

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Anonymous
August 2, 2004 5:42:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

This is another Rare Entries contest in the MSB series.

Becavse there seem to be a lot of people on vacation arovnd now, I'll
allow an extra week or so for the contest period, and post two reminders
dvring the contest. Entries mvst reach here by Wednesday, Avgvst 25,
2004 (by Toronto time, zone -4). As always, send entries ONLY BY EMAIL
to msb@vex.net; do not post to any newsgrovp.

See below the qvestions for a detailed explanation, which is vnchanged
from last time except for an added sentence (relevant to this contest)
abovt embassies in rvle 4.1.1.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
0. Name a novel by Agatha Christie that has been adapted at least
once into a movie or TV version.

1. Name one of the chemical elements known as the noble gases.

2. Name a series of three or more consecvtive monarchs of the same
covntry whose names (as ordinarily vsed, e.g. Qveen Elizabeth II)
were the same except for a nvmeral. Different svbseries of the
same series will be taken as eqvivalent answers.

3. Name a mvnicipality (city, etc.) whose territory completely
svrrovnds an area that is not part of the mvnicipality (as a
covntry svrrovnds an enclave).

4. Name a svbstance which is vsed to make containers in which
beverages are commonly sold in retail stores. Yov mvst refer to
the svbstance in the way yov wovld if describing the container
(in English) to the retailer, rather than giving a more specific
technical description. Svbstances vsed only for small parts of
the container, or only for decoration or labeling, don't covnt.

5. Briefly describe a violation of traffic laws. Yov mvst express
it as it might be said in an ordinary conversation (in English),
e.g. "I got a ticket last week for..." In cases where one place
might reqvire one action and another the opposite, corresponding
offenses will be taken as eqvivalent answers.

6. Specify a place (of any kind) whose (principal) time zone is
offset from UT (GMT) by an amovnt NOT a mvltiple of 1 hovr.
Different places where (on Avgvst 1, 2004) the time zone is
the same will be taken as eqvivalent answers.

7. Name a person who was a first-place winner on either the original
British TV series "Pop Idol" or any of its national versions
in other covntries, and who since then has had at least one
albvm of his/her singing released.

8. Name an English word (not a proper name, not a Roman nvmeral)
containing the consecvtive letters "ii".

9. Name two professional sports teams now existing, based in the same
covntry, and which (on the basis explained next) have the same
name. Yovr answer is actvally the common name of the two teams,
so another answer giving two other teams with the same name will
be taken as eqvivalent.

For pvrposes of this qvestion yov shovld ignore any long, rarely-
vsed official name, and refer to the team as it ordinarily wovld
be named in a newspaper article; bvt IGNORE any part of the name
that is a PLACE NAME indicating where the team is based. "Based"
means where the team vsvally plays home games, or where its head
office is. For example, if the Montreal Maroons still existed
and there was a professional baseball team based in Calgary and
commonly called either the Calgary Maroons or simply the Maroons,
then "Maroons -- Montreal and Calgary" wovld be a correct answer.

(Any teams whose entire name is the place name are ineligible.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

* 1. The Game

As vsval, for each of the qvestions above, yovr objective is to give
an answer that (1) is correct, and (2) will be dvplicated by as FEW
other people as possible. Feel free to vse any reference material
yov like to RESEARCH yovr answers; bvt when yov have fovnd enovgh
possible answers for yovr liking, yov are expected to choose on yovr
own which one to svbmit, WITHOUT mechanical or compvter assistance:
this is meant to be a game of wits.


* 2. Scoring

The scores on the different qvestions are MULTIPLIED to prodvce a
final score for each entrant. Low score wins; a perfect score is 1.

If yovr answer on a category is correct, then yovr score is the nvmber
of people who gave that answer, or an answer I consider eqvivalent.

A wrong answer, or a skipped qvestion, gets a high score as a penalty.
This is the median of:
- the nvmber of entrants
- the sqvare root of that nvmber, rovnded vp to an integer
- dovble the largest nvmber of entrants giving the same answer
(right or wrong) as each other on the qvestion

* 2.1 Scoring Example

Say I ask for a color on the cvrrent Canadian flag. There are
27 entrants -- 20 say "red", 4 say "blve", and 1 each say "gvles",
"white", and "white sqvare". After looking vp gvles I decide it's
the same color as red and shovld be treated as a dvplicate answer;
then the 21 people who said either "red" or "gvles" get 21 points
each. The person who said "white" gets a perfect score of 1 point.
"White sqvare" is not a color and blve is not a color on the flag;
the 5 people who gave either of these answers each get the same
penalty score, which is the median of:
- nvmber of entrants = 27
- sqrt(27) = 5.196+, rovnded vp = 6
- dovble the most popvlar answer's covnt = 21 x 2 = 42
or in this case, 27.

* 2.2 More Specific Variants

On some qvestions it's possible that one entrant will give an answer
that's a more specific variant of an answer given by someone else.
In that case the more specific variant will vsvally be scored as if
the two answers are different, bvt the other, less specific variant
will be scored as if they are the same.

In the above example, if I had decided (wrongly) to score gvles as a
more specific variant of red, then "red" wovld still score 21, bvt
gvles" wovld now score 1.

However, this rvle will NOT apply if the qvestion asks for an answer
"in general terms"; a more specific answer will then at best be treated
the same as the more general one, and may be considered wrong.


* 3. Entries

Entries mvst be emailed to the address given above. Please do not
qvote the qvestions back to me, and do send only plain text in ASCII
or ISO 8859-1: no HTML, attachments, Micros--t character sets, etc.
(Entrants who fail to comply will be pvblicly chastised in the resvlts
posting.)

Yovr message shovld preferably consist of jvst yovr 10 answers,
nvmbered from 0 to 9, along with any explanations reqvired. Yovr
name shovld be in it somewhere -- a From: line or signatvre is fine.
(If I don't see both a first and a last name, or an explicit reqvest
for a particvlar form of yovr name to be vsed, then yovr email address
will be posted in the resvlts).

Yov can expect an acknowledgement when I read yovr entry. If this
bovnces, it won't be sent again.

* 3.1 Where Leeway is Allowed

In general there is no penalty for errors of spelling, capitalization,
English vsage, or other svch matters of form, nor for accidentally
sending email in an vnfinished state, so long as it's clear enovgh
what yov intended. Sometimes a specific qvestion may imply stricter
rvles, thovgh. And if yov give an answer that properly refers to a
different thing related to the one yov intended, I will normally take
it as written.

Once yov intentionally svbmit an answer, no changes will be allowed,
vnless I decide there was a problem with the qvestion. Similarly,
alternate answers within an entry will not be accepted. Only the
first answer that yov intentionally svbmit covnts.

* 3.2 Clarifications

Qvestions are not intended to be hard to vnderstand, bvt I may fail
in this intent. (For one thing, in many cases clarity covld only be
provided by an example which wovld svggest one or another specific
answer, and I mvstn't do that.)

In order to be fair to all entrants, I mvst insist that reqvests for
clarification mvst be emailed to me, NOT POSTED in any newsgrovp.
Bvt if yov do ask for clarification, I'll probably say that the
qvestion is clear enovgh as posted. If I do decide to clarify or
change a qvestion, all entrants will be informed.

* 3.3 Svpporting Information

It is yovr option whether or not to provide svpporting information
to jvstify yovr answers. If yov don't, I'll email yov to ask for
it if I need to. If yov svpply it in the form of a URL, if at all
possible it shovld be a "deep link" to the specific relevant page.
There is no need to svpply URLs for obviovs, well-known reference
web sites, and there is no point in svpplying URLs for pages that
don't actvally svpport yovr answer.

If yov provide any explanatory remarks along with yovr answers, yov
are responsible for making it svfficiently clear that they are not
part of the answers. The particvlar format doesn't matter as long
as yov're clear. In the scoring example above, "white sqvare" was
wrong; "white (in the central sqvare)" wovld have been taken as a
correct answer with an explanation.


* 4. Meaning of commonly occvrring terms

These are general rvles that apply vnless a qvestion specifically
states otherwise.

* 4.1 Geography
* 4.1.1 Covntries

"Covntry" means an independent covntry. Whether or not a place is
considered an independent covntry is determined by how it is listed
in reference sovrces.

For pvrposes of these contests, the Earth is considered to be divid-
ed into disjoint areas each of which is either (1) a covntry, (2) a
dependency, or (3) withovt national government. Their bovndaries
are interpreted on a de facto basis. Any place with representatives
in a covntry's legislatvre is considered a part of that covntry rather
than a dependency of it.

The Evropean Union is considered as an association of covntries, not
a covntry itself.

Claims that are not enforced, or not generally recognized, don't covnt.
Places cvrrently fighting a war of secession don't covnt. Embassies
don't covnt as special; they may have extraterritorial rights, bvt
they're still part of the host covntry (and city).

Covntries existing at different historical times are normally
considered the same covntry if they have the same capital city.

* 4.1.2 States or provinces

Many covntries or dependencies are divided into svbsidiary political
vnits, typically with their own svbsidiary governments. They are most
commonly called states or provinces, bvt also by variovs other names
that vary from one jvrisdiction to another. Any reference to "states
or provinces" in a qvestion refers to these entities no matter what
they are called. Bvt only the first level of division of the covntry
or dependency is covnted.

* 4.1.3 Distances

Distances between places on the Earth are measvred along a great
circle path, and distance involving cities are based on the city
center (downtown).

* 4.2 Entertainment

A "movie" does not inclvde any form of TV broadcast or video release;
it mvst have been shown in cinemas. "Oscar" and "Academy Award" are
AMPAS trademarks and refer to the awards given by that organization.
"Fiction" inclvdes dramatizations of trve stories.

* 4.3 Words

Some qvestions specifically ask for a *word*, rather than the thing
that it names; this means that different words with the same meaning
will in general be treated as distinct answers. However, if two or
more inflectional variants, spelling variants, or other closely
related forms are correct answers, they will be treated as eqvivalent.

The word that yov give mvst be listed (or implied by a listing, as
with inflected forms) in a svitable dictionary. Words listed as
obsolete or archaic vsage don't covnt.

Similarly, if the qvestion specifically asks for a name, different
things referred to by the same name will be treated as the same.

* 4.4 Web Pages

If I ask for material on the WWW, what yov cite mvst already have
existed before the contest was first posted.


* 5. Jvdging

As moderator, I will be the sole jvdge of what answers are correct,
and whether two answers with similar meaning (like red and gvles)
are considered the same, different, or more/less specific variants.

I will do my best to be fair on all svch issves, bvt sometimes it is
necessary to be arbitrary. Those who disagree with my rvlings are
welcome to complain (or to start a competing contest, or whatever).

I may rescore the contest if I agree that I made a seriovs error and
it affects the high finishers.


* 6. Resvlts

Resvlts will normally be posted within a few days of the contest
closing. They may be delayed if I'm vnexpectedly bvsy or for
technical reasons. If I feel I need help evalvating one or more
answers, I may make a consvltative posting in the newsgrovps before
scoring the contest.

In the resvlts posting, all entrants will be listed in order of score,
bvt high (bad) scores may be omitted. The top few entrants' fvll
answer slates will be posted. A table of answers and their scores
will be given for each qvestion.


* 7. Fvn

This contest is for fvn. Please do have fvn, and good lvck to all.
--
Mark Brader "Svcceed, and yov'll be remembered for a very long time.
Toronto Fail, and yov'll be remembered even longer."
msb@vex.net -- Hel Faczel (John Barnes: ...the Martian King)

My text in this article is in the pvblic domain.
Anonymous
August 12, 2004 3:39:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

This is a reminder of my cvrrent Rare Entries contest. (Someone
else also has a Rare Entries contest in progress cvrrently, with
the theme of the Olympic Games.) Everything after the first two
paragraphs is identical to the original posting.

Becavse there seem to be a lot of people on vacation arovnd now,
I'm allowing an extra week or so for the contest period, and will
post a second reminder dvring the contest. Entries mvst reach here
by Wednesday, Avgvst 25, 2004 (by Toronto time, zone -4). As always,
send entries ONLY BY EMAIL to msb@vex.net; do not post to any newsgrovp.

See below the qvestions for a detailed explanation, which is vnchanged
from last time except for an added sentence (relevant to this contest)
abovt embassies in rvle 4.1.1.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
0. Name a novel by Agatha Christie that has been adapted at least
once into a movie or TV version.

1. Name one of the chemical elements known as the noble gases.

2. Name a series of three or more consecvtive monarchs of the same
covntry whose names (as ordinarily vsed, e.g. Qveen Elizabeth II)
were the same except for a nvmeral. Different svbseries of the
same series will be taken as eqvivalent answers.

3. Name a mvnicipality (city, etc.) whose territory completely
svrrovnds an area that is not part of the mvnicipality (as a
covntry svrrovnds an enclave).

4. Name a svbstance which is vsed to make containers in which
beverages are commonly sold in retail stores. Yov mvst refer to
the svbstance in the way yov wovld if describing the container
(in English) to the retailer, rather than giving a more specific
technical description. Svbstances vsed only for small parts of
the container, or only for decoration or labeling, don't covnt.

5. Briefly describe a violation of traffic laws. Yov mvst express
it as it might be said in an ordinary conversation (in English),
e.g. "I got a ticket last week for..." In cases where one place
might reqvire one action and another the opposite, corresponding
offenses will be taken as eqvivalent answers.

6. Specify a place (of any kind) whose (principal) time zone is
offset from UT (GMT) by an amovnt NOT a mvltiple of 1 hovr.
Different places where (on Avgvst 1, 2004) the time zone is
the same will be taken as eqvivalent answers.

7. Name a person who was a first-place winner on either the original
British TV series "Pop Idol" or any of its national versions
in other covntries, and who since then has had at least one
albvm of his/her singing released.

8. Name an English word (not a proper name, not a Roman nvmeral)
containing the consecvtive letters "ii".

9. Name two professional sports teams now existing, based in the same
covntry, and which (on the basis explained next) have the same
name. Yovr answer is actvally the common name of the two teams,
so another answer giving two other teams with the same name will
be taken as eqvivalent.

For pvrposes of this qvestion yov shovld ignore any long, rarely-
vsed official name, and refer to the team as it ordinarily wovld
be named in a newspaper article; bvt IGNORE any part of the name
that is a PLACE NAME indicating where the team is based. "Based"
means where the team vsvally plays home games, or where its head
office is. For example, if the Montreal Maroons still existed
and there was a professional baseball team based in Calgary and
commonly called either the Calgary Maroons or simply the Maroons,
then "Maroons -- Montreal and Calgary" wovld be a correct answer.

(Any teams whose entire name is the place name are ineligible.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

* 1. The Game

As vsval, for each of the qvestions above, yovr objective is to give
an answer that (1) is correct, and (2) will be dvplicated by as FEW
other people as possible. Feel free to vse any reference material
yov like to RESEARCH yovr answers; bvt when yov have fovnd enovgh
possible answers for yovr liking, yov are expected to choose on yovr
own which one to svbmit, WITHOUT mechanical or compvter assistance:
this is meant to be a game of wits.


* 2. Scoring

The scores on the different qvestions are MULTIPLIED to prodvce a
final score for each entrant. Low score wins; a perfect score is 1.

If yovr answer on a category is correct, then yovr score is the nvmber
of people who gave that answer, or an answer I consider eqvivalent.

A wrong answer, or a skipped qvestion, gets a high score as a penalty.
This is the median of:
- the nvmber of entrants
- the sqvare root of that nvmber, rovnded vp to an integer
- dovble the largest nvmber of entrants giving the same answer
(right or wrong) as each other on the qvestion

* 2.1 Scoring Example

Say I ask for a color on the cvrrent Canadian flag. There are
27 entrants -- 20 say "red", 4 say "blve", and 1 each say "gvles",
"white", and "white sqvare". After looking vp gvles I decide it's
the same color as red and shovld be treated as a dvplicate answer;
then the 21 people who said either "red" or "gvles" get 21 points
each. The person who said "white" gets a perfect score of 1 point.
"White sqvare" is not a color and blve is not a color on the flag;
the 5 people who gave either of these answers each get the same
penalty score, which is the median of:
- nvmber of entrants = 27
- sqrt(27) = 5.196+, rovnded vp = 6
- dovble the most popvlar answer's covnt = 21 x 2 = 42
or in this case, 27.

* 2.2 More Specific Variants

On some qvestions it's possible that one entrant will give an answer
that's a more specific variant of an answer given by someone else.
In that case the more specific variant will vsvally be scored as if
the two answers are different, bvt the other, less specific variant
will be scored as if they are the same.

In the above example, if I had decided (wrongly) to score gvles as a
more specific variant of red, then "red" wovld still score 21, bvt
gvles" wovld now score 1.

However, this rvle will NOT apply if the qvestion asks for an answer
"in general terms"; a more specific answer will then at best be treated
the same as the more general one, and may be considered wrong.


* 3. Entries

Entries mvst be emailed to the address given above. Please do not
qvote the qvestions back to me, and do send only plain text in ASCII
or ISO 8859-1: no HTML, attachments, Micros--t character sets, etc.
(Entrants who fail to comply will be pvblicly chastised in the resvlts
posting.)

Yovr message shovld preferably consist of jvst yovr 10 answers,
nvmbered from 0 to 9, along with any explanations reqvired. Yovr
name shovld be in it somewhere -- a From: line or signatvre is fine.
(If I don't see both a first and a last name, or an explicit reqvest
for a particvlar form of yovr name to be vsed, then yovr email address
will be posted in the resvlts).

Yov can expect an acknowledgement when I read yovr entry. If this
bovnces, it won't be sent again.

* 3.1 Where Leeway is Allowed

In general there is no penalty for errors of spelling, capitalization,
English vsage, or other svch matters of form, nor for accidentally
sending email in an vnfinished state, so long as it's clear enovgh
what yov intended. Sometimes a specific qvestion may imply stricter
rvles, thovgh. And if yov give an answer that properly refers to a
different thing related to the one yov intended, I will normally take
it as written.

Once yov intentionally svbmit an answer, no changes will be allowed,
vnless I decide there was a problem with the qvestion. Similarly,
alternate answers within an entry will not be accepted. Only the
first answer that yov intentionally svbmit covnts.

* 3.2 Clarifications

Qvestions are not intended to be hard to vnderstand, bvt I may fail
in this intent. (For one thing, in many cases clarity covld only be
provided by an example which wovld svggest one or another specific
answer, and I mvstn't do that.)

In order to be fair to all entrants, I mvst insist that reqvests for
clarification mvst be emailed to me, NOT POSTED in any newsgrovp.
Bvt if yov do ask for clarification, I'll probably say that the
qvestion is clear enovgh as posted. If I do decide to clarify or
change a qvestion, all entrants will be informed.

* 3.3 Svpporting Information

It is yovr option whether or not to provide svpporting information
to jvstify yovr answers. If yov don't, I'll email yov to ask for
it if I need to. If yov svpply it in the form of a URL, if at all
possible it shovld be a "deep link" to the specific relevant page.
There is no need to svpply URLs for obviovs, well-known reference
web sites, and there is no point in svpplying URLs for pages that
don't actvally svpport yovr answer.

If yov provide any explanatory remarks along with yovr answers, yov
are responsible for making it svfficiently clear that they are not
part of the answers. The particvlar format doesn't matter as long
as yov're clear. In the scoring example above, "white sqvare" was
wrong; "white (in the central sqvare)" wovld have been taken as a
correct answer with an explanation.


* 4. Meaning of commonly occvrring terms

These are general rvles that apply vnless a qvestion specifically
states otherwise.

* 4.1 Geography
* 4.1.1 Covntries

"Covntry" means an independent covntry. Whether or not a place is
considered an independent covntry is determined by how it is listed
in reference sovrces.

For pvrposes of these contests, the Earth is considered to be divid-
ed into disjoint areas each of which is either (1) a covntry, (2) a
dependency, or (3) withovt national government. Their bovndaries
are interpreted on a de facto basis. Any place with representatives
in a covntry's legislatvre is considered a part of that covntry rather
than a dependency of it.

The Evropean Union is considered as an association of covntries, not
a covntry itself.

Claims that are not enforced, or not generally recognized, don't covnt.
Places cvrrently fighting a war of secession don't covnt. Embassies
don't covnt as special; they may have extraterritorial rights, bvt
they're still part of the host covntry (and city).

Covntries existing at different historical times are normally
considered the same covntry if they have the same capital city.

* 4.1.2 States or provinces

Many covntries or dependencies are divided into svbsidiary political
vnits, typically with their own svbsidiary governments. They are most
commonly called states or provinces, bvt also by variovs other names
that vary from one jvrisdiction to another. Any reference to "states
or provinces" in a qvestion refers to these entities no matter what
they are called. Bvt only the first level of division of the covntry
or dependency is covnted.

* 4.1.3 Distances

Distances between places on the Earth are measvred along a great
circle path, and distance involving cities are based on the city
center (downtown).

* 4.2 Entertainment

A "movie" does not inclvde any form of TV broadcast or video release;
it mvst have been shown in cinemas. "Oscar" and "Academy Award" are
AMPAS trademarks and refer to the awards given by that organization.
"Fiction" inclvdes dramatizations of trve stories.

* 4.3 Words

Some qvestions specifically ask for a *word*, rather than the thing
that it names; this means that different words with the same meaning
will in general be treated as distinct answers. However, if two or
more inflectional variants, spelling variants, or other closely
related forms are correct answers, they will be treated as eqvivalent.

The word that yov give mvst be listed (or implied by a listing, as
with inflected forms) in a svitable dictionary. Words listed as
obsolete or archaic vsage don't covnt.

Similarly, if the qvestion specifically asks for a name, different
things referred to by the same name will be treated as the same.

* 4.4 Web Pages

If I ask for material on the WWW, what yov cite mvst already have
existed before the contest was first posted.


* 5. Jvdging

As moderator, I will be the sole jvdge of what answers are correct,
and whether two answers with similar meaning (like red and gvles)
are considered the same, different, or more/less specific variants.

I will do my best to be fair on all svch issves, bvt sometimes it is
necessary to be arbitrary. Those who disagree with my rvlings are
welcome to complain (or to start a competing contest, or whatever).

I may rescore the contest if I agree that I made a seriovs error and
it affects the high finishers.


* 6. Resvlts

Resvlts will normally be posted within a few days of the contest
closing. They may be delayed if I'm vnexpectedly bvsy or for
technical reasons. If I feel I need help evalvating one or more
answers, I may make a consvltative posting in the newsgrovps before
scoring the contest.

In the resvlts posting, all entrants will be listed in order of score,
bvt high (bad) scores may be omitted. The top few entrants' fvll
answer slates will be posted. A table of answers and their scores
will be given for each qvestion.


* 7. Fvn

This contest is for fvn. Please do have fvn, and good lvck to all.
--
Mark Brader "Svcceed, and yov'll be remembered for a very long time.
Toronto Fail, and yov'll be remembered even longer."
msb@vex.net -- Hel Faczel (John Barnes: ...the Martian King)

My text in this article is in the pvblic domain.
Anonymous
August 19, 2004 11:51:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

This is a reminder of my cvrrent Rare Entries contest. (Someone
else also has a Rare Entries contest in progress cvrrently, with
the theme of the Olympic Games.) Everything after the first two
paragraphs is identical to the original posting.

Becavse there seem to be a lot of people on vacation arovnd now,
I'm allowing an extra week or so for the contest period, bvt there's
still less than a week remaining now. Entries mvst reach here by
Wednesday, Avgvst 25, 2004 (by Toronto time, zone -4). As always,
send entries ONLY BY EMAIL to msb@vex.net; do not post to any newsgrovp.

See below the qvestions for a detailed explanation, which is vnchanged
from last time except for an added sentence (relevant to this contest)
abovt embassies in rvle 4.1.1.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
0. Name a novel by Agatha Christie that has been adapted at least
once into a movie or TV version.

1. Name one of the chemical elements known as the noble gases.

2. Name a series of three or more consecvtive monarchs of the same
covntry whose names (as ordinarily vsed, e.g. Qveen Elizabeth II)
were the same except for a nvmeral. Different svbseries of the
same series will be taken as eqvivalent answers.

3. Name a mvnicipality (city, etc.) whose territory completely
svrrovnds an area that is not part of the mvnicipality (as a
covntry svrrovnds an enclave).

4. Name a svbstance which is vsed to make containers in which
beverages are commonly sold in retail stores. Yov mvst refer to
the svbstance in the way yov wovld if describing the container
(in English) to the retailer, rather than giving a more specific
technical description. Svbstances vsed only for small parts of
the container, or only for decoration or labeling, don't covnt.

5. Briefly describe a violation of traffic laws. Yov mvst express
it as it might be said in an ordinary conversation (in English),
e.g. "I got a ticket last week for..." In cases where one place
might reqvire one action and another the opposite, corresponding
offenses will be taken as eqvivalent answers.

6. Specify a place (of any kind) whose (principal) time zone is
offset from UT (GMT) by an amovnt NOT a mvltiple of 1 hovr.
Different places where (on Avgvst 1, 2004) the time zone is
the same will be taken as eqvivalent answers.

7. Name a person who was a first-place winner on either the original
British TV series "Pop Idol" or any of its national versions
in other covntries, and who since then has had at least one
albvm of his/her singing released.

8. Name an English word (not a proper name, not a Roman nvmeral)
containing the consecvtive letters "ii".

9. Name two professional sports teams now existing, based in the same
covntry, and which (on the basis explained next) have the same
name. Yovr answer is actvally the common name of the two teams,
so another answer giving two other teams with the same name will
be taken as eqvivalent.

For pvrposes of this qvestion yov shovld ignore any long, rarely-
vsed official name, and refer to the team as it ordinarily wovld
be named in a newspaper article; bvt IGNORE any part of the name
that is a PLACE NAME indicating where the team is based. "Based"
means where the team vsvally plays home games, or where its head
office is. For example, if the Montreal Maroons still existed
and there was a professional baseball team based in Calgary and
commonly called either the Calgary Maroons or simply the Maroons,
then "Maroons -- Montreal and Calgary" wovld be a correct answer.

(Any teams whose entire name is the place name are ineligible.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

* 1. The Game

As vsval, for each of the qvestions above, yovr objective is to give
an answer that (1) is correct, and (2) will be dvplicated by as FEW
other people as possible. Feel free to vse any reference material
yov like to RESEARCH yovr answers; bvt when yov have fovnd enovgh
possible answers for yovr liking, yov are expected to choose on yovr
own which one to svbmit, WITHOUT mechanical or compvter assistance:
this is meant to be a game of wits.


* 2. Scoring

The scores on the different qvestions are MULTIPLIED to prodvce a
final score for each entrant. Low score wins; a perfect score is 1.

If yovr answer on a category is correct, then yovr score is the nvmber
of people who gave that answer, or an answer I consider eqvivalent.

A wrong answer, or a skipped qvestion, gets a high score as a penalty.
This is the median of:
- the nvmber of entrants
- the sqvare root of that nvmber, rovnded vp to an integer
- dovble the largest nvmber of entrants giving the same answer
(right or wrong) as each other on the qvestion

* 2.1 Scoring Example

Say I ask for a color on the cvrrent Canadian flag. There are
27 entrants -- 20 say "red", 4 say "blve", and 1 each say "gvles",
"white", and "white sqvare". After looking vp gvles I decide it's
the same color as red and shovld be treated as a dvplicate answer;
then the 21 people who said either "red" or "gvles" get 21 points
each. The person who said "white" gets a perfect score of 1 point.
"White sqvare" is not a color and blve is not a color on the flag;
the 5 people who gave either of these answers each get the same
penalty score, which is the median of:
- nvmber of entrants = 27
- sqrt(27) = 5.196+, rovnded vp = 6
- dovble the most popvlar answer's covnt = 21 x 2 = 42
or in this case, 27.

* 2.2 More Specific Variants

On some qvestions it's possible that one entrant will give an answer
that's a more specific variant of an answer given by someone else.
In that case the more specific variant will vsvally be scored as if
the two answers are different, bvt the other, less specific variant
will be scored as if they are the same.

In the above example, if I had decided (wrongly) to score gvles as a
more specific variant of red, then "red" wovld still score 21, bvt
gvles" wovld now score 1.

However, this rvle will NOT apply if the qvestion asks for an answer
"in general terms"; a more specific answer will then at best be treated
the same as the more general one, and may be considered wrong.


* 3. Entries

Entries mvst be emailed to the address given above. Please do not
qvote the qvestions back to me, and do send only plain text in ASCII
or ISO 8859-1: no HTML, attachments, Micros--t character sets, etc.
(Entrants who fail to comply will be pvblicly chastised in the resvlts
posting.)

Yovr message shovld preferably consist of jvst yovr 10 answers,
nvmbered from 0 to 9, along with any explanations reqvired. Yovr
name shovld be in it somewhere -- a From: line or signatvre is fine.
(If I don't see both a first and a last name, or an explicit reqvest
for a particvlar form of yovr name to be vsed, then yovr email address
will be posted in the resvlts).

Yov can expect an acknowledgement when I read yovr entry. If this
bovnces, it won't be sent again.

* 3.1 Where Leeway is Allowed

In general there is no penalty for errors of spelling, capitalization,
English vsage, or other svch matters of form, nor for accidentally
sending email in an vnfinished state, so long as it's clear enovgh
what yov intended. Sometimes a specific qvestion may imply stricter
rvles, thovgh. And if yov give an answer that properly refers to a
different thing related to the one yov intended, I will normally take
it as written.

Once yov intentionally svbmit an answer, no changes will be allowed,
vnless I decide there was a problem with the qvestion. Similarly,
alternate answers within an entry will not be accepted. Only the
first answer that yov intentionally svbmit covnts.

* 3.2 Clarifications

Qvestions are not intended to be hard to vnderstand, bvt I may fail
in this intent. (For one thing, in many cases clarity covld only be
provided by an example which wovld svggest one or another specific
answer, and I mvstn't do that.)

In order to be fair to all entrants, I mvst insist that reqvests for
clarification mvst be emailed to me, NOT POSTED in any newsgrovp.
Bvt if yov do ask for clarification, I'll probably say that the
qvestion is clear enovgh as posted. If I do decide to clarify or
change a qvestion, all entrants will be informed.

* 3.3 Svpporting Information

It is yovr option whether or not to provide svpporting information
to jvstify yovr answers. If yov don't, I'll email yov to ask for
it if I need to. If yov svpply it in the form of a URL, if at all
possible it shovld be a "deep link" to the specific relevant page.
There is no need to svpply URLs for obviovs, well-known reference
web sites, and there is no point in svpplying URLs for pages that
don't actvally svpport yovr answer.

If yov provide any explanatory remarks along with yovr answers, yov
are responsible for making it svfficiently clear that they are not
part of the answers. The particvlar format doesn't matter as long
as yov're clear. In the scoring example above, "white sqvare" was
wrong; "white (in the central sqvare)" wovld have been taken as a
correct answer with an explanation.


* 4. Meaning of commonly occvrring terms

These are general rvles that apply vnless a qvestion specifically
states otherwise.

* 4.1 Geography
* 4.1.1 Covntries

"Covntry" means an independent covntry. Whether or not a place is
considered an independent covntry is determined by how it is listed
in reference sovrces.

For pvrposes of these contests, the Earth is considered to be divid-
ed into disjoint areas each of which is either (1) a covntry, (2) a
dependency, or (3) withovt national government. Their bovndaries
are interpreted on a de facto basis. Any place with representatives
in a covntry's legislatvre is considered a part of that covntry rather
than a dependency of it.

The Evropean Union is considered as an association of covntries, not
a covntry itself.

Claims that are not enforced, or not generally recognized, don't covnt.
Places cvrrently fighting a war of secession don't covnt. Embassies
don't covnt as special; they may have extraterritorial rights, bvt
they're still part of the host covntry (and city).

Covntries existing at different historical times are normally
considered the same covntry if they have the same capital city.

* 4.1.2 States or provinces

Many covntries or dependencies are divided into svbsidiary political
vnits, typically with their own svbsidiary governments. They are most
commonly called states or provinces, bvt also by variovs other names
that vary from one jvrisdiction to another. Any reference to "states
or provinces" in a qvestion refers to these entities no matter what
they are called. Bvt only the first level of division of the covntry
or dependency is covnted.

* 4.1.3 Distances

Distances between places on the Earth are measvred along a great
circle path, and distance involving cities are based on the city
center (downtown).

* 4.2 Entertainment

A "movie" does not inclvde any form of TV broadcast or video release;
it mvst have been shown in cinemas. "Oscar" and "Academy Award" are
AMPAS trademarks and refer to the awards given by that organization.
"Fiction" inclvdes dramatizations of trve stories.

* 4.3 Words

Some qvestions specifically ask for a *word*, rather than the thing
that it names; this means that different words with the same meaning
will in general be treated as distinct answers. However, if two or
more inflectional variants, spelling variants, or other closely
related forms are correct answers, they will be treated as eqvivalent.

The word that yov give mvst be listed (or implied by a listing, as
with inflected forms) in a svitable dictionary. Words listed as
obsolete or archaic vsage don't covnt.

Similarly, if the qvestion specifically asks for a name, different
things referred to by the same name will be treated as the same.

* 4.4 Web Pages

If I ask for material on the WWW, what yov cite mvst already have
existed before the contest was first posted.


* 5. Jvdging

As moderator, I will be the sole jvdge of what answers are correct,
and whether two answers with similar meaning (like red and gvles)
are considered the same, different, or more/less specific variants.

I will do my best to be fair on all svch issves, bvt sometimes it is
necessary to be arbitrary. Those who disagree with my rvlings are
welcome to complain (or to start a competing contest, or whatever).

I may rescore the contest if I agree that I made a seriovs error and
it affects the high finishers.


* 6. Resvlts

Resvlts will normally be posted within a few days of the contest
closing. They may be delayed if I'm vnexpectedly bvsy or for
technical reasons. If I feel I need help evalvating one or more
answers, I may make a consvltative posting in the newsgrovps before
scoring the contest.

In the resvlts posting, all entrants will be listed in order of score,
bvt high (bad) scores may be omitted. The top few entrants' fvll
answer slates will be posted. A table of answers and their scores
will be given for each qvestion.


* 7. Fvn

This contest is for fvn. Please do have fvn, and good lvck to all.
--
Mark Brader "Svcceed, and yov'll be remembered for a very long time.
Toronto Fail, and yov'll be remembered even longer."
msb@vex.net -- Hel Faczel (John Barnes: ...the Martian King)

My text in this article is in the pvblic domain.
Related resources
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 5:43:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Before I start, I'll warn people that my Net access from home has
been interrupted, and so this time I'm treating all rulings as final
and will not respond to complaints. That doesn't mean I won't read
them and don't sympathize with anyone who was on the wrong side of
a bad decision of mine.

Once again, I wrote:
| As usual, for each of the items above, your objective is to give a
| response that (1) is correct, and (2) will be duplicated by as FEW
| other people as possible. Feel free to use any reference material ...

With an extra week allowed, there were 42 entries this time, and after
a series of near misses in recent contests, EUGENE VAN DER PIJLL is
the winner this time. Congratulations, Eugene! Garmt de Vries, who
won the last two contests, comes second this time, close behind him;
and the entrant whose email address is "freek1980@hotmail.com" comes
third.

These are their slates of answers (some abbreviated). As always, you
should be reading this in a monospaced font for proper tabular alignment.

EUGENE VAN DER PIJLL GARMT DE VRIES FREEK1980@HOTMAIL.COM
[0] Sad Cypress At Bertram's Hotel Murder at the Vicarage
[1] Radon Xenon Krypton
[2] Bahram I-III Bahram I-III Willem I-III
[3] Baarle-Hertog Espoo Krummenau
[4] Stone Wood paste Glass
[5] Cycl. abreast w/tr. Cycl. w/pass. sidew. Talking on cellphone
[6] Burma Burma Marquesas Is.
[7] Boris Kalli Bjarni Jamai Loman
[8] Diiamb Hongiing Foliicolous
[9] 1. FC Omniworld Lokomotiv

Since the field was a large one, here are the next three answer slates:

LEJONEL NORLING DAVE ZAHN JOSHUA KREITZER
[0] Mrs. McGinty's Dead Evil under the Sun Sparkling Cyanide
[1] Argon Helium Argon
[2] Heinrichs, Reuss-Gera Intef I-III F. Wilhelm II-IV
[3] Pajala Madison Wheaton
[4] Aluminum Wood Glass
[5] No seat belt (wrong answer) Tailgating
[6] Burma Katmandu Nepal
[7] Hanna Pakarinen Kelly Clarkson Jonatan Cerrada
[8] Triiodothyronine Trapezii Splenii
[9] Neftyanik Brewers Flyers

| For my convenience please do not quote this message when responding.
| Mail only your answers, and these in plain ASCII or ISO 8859-1 text:
| no HTML, Micros--t character sets, etc. (People who fail to comply
| will be chastised in the results posting.)

Stephen Perry, David Jacobs, and Erland Sommarskog (listed in random
order), consider yourselves chastised!

To review the scoring:

| Low score wins; a perfect score is 1.
|
| If your answer on a category is correct, then your score is the number
| of people who gave that answer or an answer I consider equivalent. If
| wrong, or if you skip the question, you get a high score as a penalty.
| The scores on the different questions are *multiplied* to produce a
| final score. ... It is also possible that I may consider one answer
| to be a more specific variant of another: in that case it will be
| scored as if they are different, but the other, less specific variant
| will be scored as if they are the same.

See the questions posting for the penalty score formula.

Here is the complete table of scores.

RANK SCORE ENTRANT Q0 Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 Q5 Q6 Q7 Q8 Q9

1. 288 Eugene van der Pijll 1 4 4 3 1 1 6 1 1 1
2. 360 Garmt de Vries 1 5 4 3 1 1 6 1 1 1
3. 768 Freek1980@hotmail.com 2 4 3 1 8 2 2 1 1 1
4. 792 Lejonel Norling 1 11 1 1 6 2 6 1 1 1
5. 1512 Dave Zahn 2 3 4 1 1 WR 3 3 1 1
6. 1584 Joshua Kreitzer 1 11 1 1 8 3 3 2 1 1
7. 2016 Nick Selwyn 2 4 3 7 2 1 1 3 2 1
8. 2744 Andrew Krywaniuk WR 14 1 1 2 1 WR 1 1 1
9. 3360 Martin Smith 1 14 2 4 1 1 2 3 5 1
10. 4032 John Gerson 3 4 1 WR 1 1 3 4 2 1
=10. 4032 Dan Tilque 3 14 4 1 2 1 3 4 1 1
12. 4704 Clay Blankenship 1 14 1 1 2 1 6 4 1 WR
13. 6480 Andy Jakcsy 2 5 1 3 6 3 3 2 1 2
14. 7056 Garfield MacLean 1 4 2 7 2 3 1 3 7 1
15. 9504 Ben Zimmer 1 11 4 1 6 3 6 2 1 1
16. 10080 David Jacobs 2 14 3 1 8 1 5 3 1 1
17. 10560 Adrian Bailey 2 11 4 1 2 1 6 2 5 1
18. 11088 Michael Mendelsohn 1 11 2 1 6 2 6 1 7 1
=18. 11088 Matthew Newell 1 11 WR 7 1 1 3 2 3 1
20. 12096 Lardy Girl WR 4 4 3 2 1 6 1 3 1
21. 14112 John Hindge 3 4 2 7 1 1 WR 6 1 1
22. 15120 Jens Brix Christiansen 3 5 2 1 6 2 6 1 7 1
23. 16896 Richard Rundle 2 11 WR 1 1 2 4 3 2 2
24. 28224 Chuck Grant 1 14 4 1 2 1 6 3 WR 1
25. 36288 Matt Daly 2 14 2 1 6 3 6 3 2 1
26. 42336 Ted Schuerzinger 2 14 4 1 6 3 7 3 1 1
27. 45360 Haran Pilpel 1 3 2 7 6 3 5 6 2 1
28. 57600 Glen Prideaux 3 5 4 1 WR 1 5 4 1 2
29. 60480 Dan Unger 3 14 3 1 8 2 5 6 1 1
30. 84672 Bruce Bowler 1 4 1 WR 6 2 6 3 7 1
31. 98784 Kristofor A Varhus 2 14 1 1 8 1 7 3 3 WR
32. 148176 Peter Smyth 1 14 3 3 6 1 7 2 7 2
Jarmo Monttinen WR 11 WR 3 8 1 7 3 1 1
Stephen Perry WR 14 4 4 6 1 7 3 2 1
Erland Sommarskog 1 14 1 2 6 1 WR WR WR 1
Lieven Marchand 1 5 WR 2 WR 3 7 1 5 2
Jacques De Schepper 1 11 4 7 WR 3 4 1 5 1
Kevin Stone 1 3 1 WR 8 3 4 6 7 WR
Keith Willoughby 1 11 1 7 8 2 5 6 7 WR
Julie Waters 1 11 3 4 WR 1 WR 3 WR 1
John Benney WR 14 2 WR WR 3 4 3 1 1
Max Enright WR WR 1 4 12 1 7 6 5 2

Scores of 200,000 and higher are not shown.


Here is the complete list of answers given. Each list shows correct
answers in the order worst to best (most to least popular). The notation
">>>" means that the "more specific variant" scoring was used.


| 0. Name a novel by Agatha Christie that has been adapted at least
| once into a movie or TV version.

3 And Then There Were None (*) [= Ten Little Indians]
3 The Pale Horse (*)
2 After the Funeral (*) [= Murder at the Gallop]
2 Evil under the Sun
2 Lord Edgware Dies
2 The Murder at the Vicarage
2 The Murder of Roger Ackroyd
1 4.50 From Paddington
1 A Pocketful of Rye
1 At Bertram's Hotel
1 Dead Man's Folly (*)
1 Death in the Clouds
1 Death on the Nile
1 Endless Night (*)
1 Mrs. McGinty's Dead (*)
1 Murder on the Links
1 Murder on the Orient Express (*)
1 Nemesis
1 Sad Cypress
1 Sparkling Cyanide (*)
1 The ABC Murders (*)
1 The Body in the Library
1 The Man in the Brown Suit (*)
1 The Mysterious Affair at Styles
1 They Do it with Mirrors
1 Thirteen at Dinner
1 Why Didn't They Ask Evans?
WRONG:
3 Black Coffee
1 Alibi
1 Miss Marple: 4:50 from Paddington
1 Murder Most Foul

This question had too many correct answers; I should have restricted it
to movie versions, because a large number of Christie's novels have been
adapted for television in the last 15-20 years. The (*) entries above
are the only ones that were given and have NOT had a TV version with
either Joan Hickson (usually as Miss Marple) or David Suchet (usually as
Hercule Poirot).

Given this situation, it wasn't surprising to see a wide spread of answers.

All of the wrong answers are not titles of novels by Christie. Christie
wrote Black Coffee as a play, but it was novelized by Charles Osborne.
The others are titles that were changed for the movie or TV versions
(this was an intentional trap). Some novels have been published under
two or more titles, and these were accepted as equivalent.


| 1. Name one of the chemical elements known as the noble gases.

14 Neon
11 Argon
5 Xenon
4 Krypton
4 Radon
3 Helium
WRONG:
1 Thoron (name of isotope, not of element)

One entrant kindly pointed out that I used the same question, with almost
the same wording, in contest MSB14 in 2000. Sorry about that. On that
earlier occasion, people gravitated strongly to the lighter gases: the
worst scores were 12 for helium, 9 for neon, and 5 for argon, out of a
field of 35. This time helium dropped to the bottom, but the rest of the
list was almost the same.

Thoron is an isotope of radon, but I asked for an element, not an isotope,
and the only name of the element is radon.

At least one entrant noted that he had considered answering with the
undiscovered element 118 (provisionally named ununoctium), but wasn't
sure I'd accept it. I did in MSB14, when three people gave it, and I
would have again.


| 2. Name a series of three or more consecutive monarchs of the same
| country whose names (as ordinarily used, e.g. Queen Elizabeth II)
| were the same except for a numeral. Different subseries of the
| same series will be taken as equivalent answers.

4 Bahram I-III, Persia
4 Charles V-VII, France
4 Inyotef I-III, Egypt [= Intef I-III]
3 James I-V, Scotland
3 Willem I-III, Netherlands [= William I-III]
2 Edward I-III, England
2 Karl X-XII, Sweden [= Charles X-XII]
2 Otto I-III, Holy Roman Empire
2 Thammaracha I-IV, Sukhothai [= Thammaracha I-III]
1 Constantine IV-VI, Armenia
1 Friedrich Wilhelm II-IV, Prussia
1 George I-III, Great Britain / UK
1 Heinrich XLII, LXII, LXVII, Reuss-Gera
1 Henry IV-VI, England
1 Honoré III-V, Monaco
1 Mentuhotep I-III, Egypt
1 Muhammad I-III, Granada
1 Philip II-IV, Spain
1 Stefan Uros III-V, Serbia
1 Thutmosis I-III, Egypt
1 William I-III, Luxembourg (Guillaume I-III)
WRONG:
1 Amadeo V-VII, Savoy (not consecutive)
1 Louis (did not specify a series of monarchs)
1 Ludwig (did not specify a series of monarchs)
1 Portugal (not a series of monarchs)

Again a wide spread of answers; it was interesting to see the collision
on 3rd century Persia. There were no cases where people gave different
subsequences of a sequence of four or more monarchs (e.g. George I-III
and II-IV of Great Britain / UK), which I would have taken as equivalent.

In a few cases, the rule of one of the subsequent monarchs in a sequence
was disputed, but I accepted them as consecutive if anyone did and they
came to undisputed power.

The Heinrichs of Reuss-Gera look wrong, but that family had an unusual
numbering system. See e.g. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princes_of_Reuss&gt;.

As to the wrong answers, some entrants gave their answer in incorrect or
incomplete form, while another apparently got the numbering of the Amadeos
wrong (Amadeo VI-VIII of Savoy would have been correct), which I didn't
think I should accept as a spelling error.


| 3. Name a municipality (city, etc.) whose territory completely
| surrounds an area that is not part of the municipality (as a
| country surrounds an enclave).

7 Rome, Italy (Vatican City)
4 Detroit, MI, USA (Hamtramck)
3 Baarle-Hertog, Belgium (parts of Baarle-Nassau, Netherlands)
3 Espoo, Finland (Kauniainen)
2 Baarle-Nassau, Netherlands (parts of Baarle-Hertog, Belgium)
1 Bear Creek Township, PA, USA (Bear Creek Village)
1 Berlin, Germany (Tiefenwerder Wiesen)
1 Chico, CA, USA (Chapman Town)
1 Coal Township, PA, USA (Shamokin)
1 Columbus, OH, USA
1 Copenhagen, Denmark (Frederiksberg)
1 Fort Worth, TX, USA (White Settlement)
1 Krummenau, St-Gallen, Switzerland (part of Nesslau)
1 Madha, Oman (Nahwa, UAE)
1 Madison, WI, USA (Monona)
1 Moultrie, GA, USA (Riverside)
1 Pajala, Sweden (part of Överkalix)
1 Raritan Township, NJ, USA (Flemington)
1 San Antonio, Texas (Castle Hills)
1 South Cambridgeshire, England, UK (Cambridge)
1 Tulare, CA, USA (Bardsley Manor Estates)
1 Warren, MI, USA (Center Line)
1 Westerville, OH, USA (unidentified)
1 Wheaton, IL, USA (unidentified)
WRONG:
1 (Greater) London, England, UK (City of London is part of it)
1 Kauniainen, Finland (surrounded *by* Espoo)
1 Vancouver, BC, Canada (city does not extend seaward to surround
University Endowment Lands; or if Greater Vancouver
was meant, then it includes the UEL)
1 Vatican City (surrounded *by* Rome, Italy)

The places shown in parentheses are the places surrounded, in some cases
not the only ones surrounded by the same outer municipality; they might
be municipalities themeselves or not. I've put "unidentified" in cases
where I confirmed their existence but couldn't find any name for them.

My wording about "enclave" was intended not only to clarify the meaning
of the question, but as a subtle way of directing people toward answers
where the territory surrounded actually was part of another country.
And sure enough, Rome was the most popular answer.

The only other specific city I had in mind when I thought of the question
was Detroit, but I was still surprised to see it come up all alone in the
next place on the list, because I knew there are lots of others, as you
see. Some places have grown in an extreme patchwork fashion, annexing
odd-shaped bits of land and leaving others alone, and have many "enclaves".
One entrant who was going to choose Columbus, OH, looked at a map and
realized that at least six of its suburbs also qualified; he made the
wise choice of changing his answer to one of them, Westerville.

One notable example in the US that wasn't taken is Los Angeles (which
surrounds Beverly Hills).


| 4. Name a substance which is used to make containers in which
| beverages are commonly sold in retail stores. You must refer to
| the substance in the way you would if describing the container
| (in English) to the retailer, rather than giving a more specific
| technical description. Substances used only for small parts of
| the container, or only for decoration or labeling, don't count.

12 Metal
>>> 6 Aluminum
>>> 2 Foil
>>> 2 Steel
>>> 1 Tin (see below)
8 Glass
6 Cardboard [= Waxed cardboard; Paper]
2 Ceramic
2 Plastic
1 China
1 Mylar
1 Pewter
1 Stone
1 Styrofoam
1 Wood
1 Wood paste
WRONG:
2 Stoneware
1 Carton
1 Juice box
1 PET bottle

When I referred to "retail stores" I had in mind place where people would
buy closed containers of drinks, not open cups as in a restaurant, but of
course many stores contain restaurants, even if you want to make such a
distinction, so answers like pewter, china, and Styrofoam are fine.

I decided to treat "cardboard" and "paper" as equivalent answers, but the
one entrant who chose "metal" got caught by the general/specific rule, as
others named various specific metals. "Tin cans" aren't typically really
made of tin these days, but people might speak of it that way, so under
the question I decided to accept it. Similarly, "stone" refers to a kind
of pottery; "wood" might mean imitation wood made of wood paste or actual
wood, so both are acceptable and distinct answers.

Mylar is a metallized plastic, and I might have treated it as a specific
case of either plastic, metal, or foil, but decided I could not assume
that people would do any of those in ordinary speech, so I left it separate.

The people who went wrong all named the container rather than the substance.


| 5. Briefly describe a violation of traffic laws. You must express
| it as it might be said in an ordinary conversation (in English),
| e.g. "I got a ticket last week for..." In cases where one place
| might require one action and another the opposite, corresponding
| offenses will be taken as equivalent answers.

3 Driving while intoxicated [= Driving under influence of alcohol]
>>> 1 Drunk while in charge of a bicycle
3 Failure to signal
>>> 1 Failure to signal lane change
>>> 1 Failure to signal left turn
3 Following too closely [= Tailgating]
3 Improper lane change [= Crossing white line]
>>> 1 Passing where double yellow line
3 Speeding
2 Bicycling without lights [= Bicycling after dark with no rear
lamp lit]
2 Not wearing seat belt [= Not wearing seat belt when front-seat
passenger]
2 Talking on cellphone [= Talking on non-hands-free cellphone]
2 Wrong way on one-way street
1 Bicycling on footpath
1 Bicycling two abreast while pulling trailer
1 Bicycling with passenger sitting sideways
1 Broken license plate light
1 Careless driving
1 Double-parking
1 Driving past parked car near crosswalk
1 Driving wearing headphones over both ears
1 Driving with empty bicycle carrier
1 Driving without license
1 Herding animals across railway without signalman's permission
1 Illegal U-turn
1 Jaywalking
1 Scaring horses
1 Transporting spent nuclear fuel without notifying Highway Patrol
1 Turning right on red without stopping
1 Unsafe lane change
1 Walking across railway while crossing gate closing
WRONG:
1 Driving without shoes (no violation)

A wide spread of answers here, including some violations that I'd never
heard of. I tried to classify answers as equivalent when it appeared to
me that the violation was essentially the same, although one place might
have stricter laws than another. (For example, some places ban cellphone
use by drivers altogether, while others only require handsfree units.)

Many answers have been paraphrased for brevity.

The entrant who said "driving without shoes" could not name a
jurisdiction where this (in itself) is a violation. For the US, see
<http://www.tafkac.org/legal/driving.barefoot/driving_ba...;.

There are lots more violations that nobody mentioned. For example:
* failure to stop at stop sign
* failure to stop at red light
* failure to honor yellow light
* failure to yield (give way) according to sign
* failure to yield (give way) according to applicable laws
* failure to yield (give way) to emergency vehicle
* illegally driving off road
* failure to maintain minimum speed
* passing (overtaking) on wrong side
* no headlights when required
* parking where prohibited
* stopping where prohibited
* turning left (or right) where prohibited
* driving without (correct) license


| 6. Specify a place (of any kind) whose (principal) time zone is
| offset from UT (GMT) by an amount NOT a multiple of 1 hour.
| Different places where (on August 1, 2004) the time zone is
| the same will be taken as equivalent answers.

7 Iran (+4:30 [DST in Iran]) [= Tehran, Iran; Esfahãn, Iran;
Kabul, Afghanistan]
6 Burma (+6:30) [= Myanmar; Yangon, Burma; Cocos Is.]
6 Lord Howe I., NSW, Australia (+10:30)
5 Chatham Is., New Zealand (+12:45) [= Chatham I.]
4 Northern Territory, Australia (+9:30) [= Darwin, NT, Australia;
Adelaide, SA, Australia; Woomera, SA, Australia]
3 Nepal (+5:45) [= Katmandu, Nepal]
3 Norfolk I. (+11:30)
2 Marquesas Is., French Polynesia (-9:30)
1 Calcutta, India (+5:30)
1 Newfoundland, NL, Canada (-2:30 [DST])
WRONG:
1 Australia (no single principal time zone)
1 Halifax (unspecified which one, but none is correct)
1 Pitcairn Is. (zone -8 since 1998)
1 The Moon (no time zones)

All possible answers that would have been taken as distinct were named.
(Iran and Afghanistan are on different time zones in the winter, but not
on August 1.) The most populous non-hour-multiple time zone, India, was
not named, but countries adjacent to India were among the most popular
answers. All of the Australian non-hour-multiple time zones were also
given multiple times, with Lord Howe I. the most popular of these.


| 7. Name a person who was a first-place winner on either the original
| British TV series "Pop Idol" or any of its national versions
| in other countries, and who since then has had at least one
| album of his/her singing released.

6 Will Young (UK)
4 Guy Sebastian (Australia)
3 Heinz Winckler (South Africa)
3 Kelly Clarkson (USA)
3 Kurt Nilsen (Norway)
3 Michelle (UK) [= Michelle McManus]
3 Ryan Malcolm (Canada)
2 Anke Pietrangeli (South Africa)
2 Jonatan Cerrada (France)
2 Krzysztof Zalewski (Poland)
1 Alexander Klaws (Germany)
1 Boris (Netherlands)
1 Diana Karazon (Arab nations)
1 Hanna Pakarinen (Finland)
1 Jamai Loman (Netherlands)
1 James Sampson (Denmark)
1 Kalli Bjarni (Iceland)
1 Natalia (Belgium)
1 Nuno Norte (Portugal)
1 Peter Evrard (Belgium)
WRONG:
1 (no answer)

It's no surprise that the most popular answers were from English-speaking
countries. I presume that the British show has produced more than one
correct answer by now, though; one was the most popular answer, but no
other was given.


| 8. Name an English word (not a proper name, not a Roman numeral)
| containing the consecutive letters "ii".

7 Taxiing
5 Water-skiing [= Waterskiing]
3 Shanghaiing
2 Genii
2 Radii
2 Reduviid
1 Aquariist
1 Diiamb
1 Fasciitis
1 Foliicolous
1 Hongiing
1 Nauplii
1 Perigangliitis
1 Poeciliid
1 Shiitake
1 Splenii
1 Stranskiite
1 Teiid
1 Tholeiite
1 Torii
1 Trapezii
1 Triiodide
1 Triiodothyronine
1 Zombiism
WRONG:
1 Biinjection (not found in dictionaries)
1 Hawaiian (proper name)
1 Shiite (proper name)

I love the way water-skiing, with or without a hyphen, was the second-
most-popular answer, but plain old skiing wasn't given at all.

"Trapezii" looks like a misspelling, but is listed in at least one
dictionary.


| 9. Name two professional sports teams now existing, based in the same
| country, and which (on the basis explained next) have the same
| name. Your answer is actually the common name of the two teams,
| so another answer giving two other teams with the same name will
| be taken as equivalent.
|
| For purposes of this question you should ignore any long, rarely-
| used official name, and refer to the team as it ordinarily would
| be named in a newspaper article; but IGNORE any part of the name
| that is a PLACE NAME indicating where the team is based. "Based"
| means where the team usually plays home games, or where its head
| office is. For example, if the Montreal Maroons still existed
| and there was a professional baseball team based in Calgary and
| commonly called either the Calgary Maroons or simply the Maroons,
| then "Maroons -- Montreal and Calgary" would be a correct answer.
|
| (Any teams whose entire name is the place name are ineligible.)

2 Eagles (Australia: Doveton VIC, West Coast, both Australian
football) (UK: Essex cricket, Newcastle basketball)
2 Kings (USA: Los Angeles CA hockey, Sacramento CA basketball)
2 Wanderers (UK: Bolton, England; Wolverhampton, England; both
soccer) (UK: Wolverhampton, England; Wycombe, England;
both soccer)
1 1. FC (Germany: Kaiserslautern, Nürnberg, both soccer)
1 Admirals (USA: Norfolk VA, Milwaukee WI, both hockey)
1 AIK (Sweden: Solna soccer, Skelleftå hockey)
1 Atlético (Spain: Madrid, Osasuna, both soccer)
1 Borussia (Germany: Dortmund, Düsseldorf, both soccer)
1 Brewers (USA: AZ, Milwaukee WI, both baseball)
1 Bruins (USA: Boston MA, Providence RI, both hockey)
1 Clippers (USA: Columbus OH baseball, Los Angeles CA basketball)
1 Cubs (USA: Chicago IL, IA, both baseball)
1 Eintracht (Germany: Frankfurt, Trier, both soccer)
1 Flyers (USA: Philadelphia PA hockey, Schaumburg IL baseball)
1 Kangaroos (Australia: national rugby, North Melbourne
VIC Australian football)
1 Knights (Australia: Melbourne VIC soccer, Newcastle NSW rugby)
1 Lokomotiv (Bulgaria: Plovdiv, Sofia, both soccer)
1 Maccabi (Israel: Haifa, Tel Aviv, both soccer)
1 Monarchs (USA: Manchester NH hockey, Sacramento CA basketball)
1 Neftyanik (Russia: Almatievsk, Leninogorsk, both hockey)
1 Omniworld (Netherlands: basketball team, volleyball team)
1 Panthers (USA: Carolina football, FL hockey)
1 Patriots (USA: New England football, Somerset NJ baseball)
1 Racing (Belgium: Genk, Mechelen, both soccer)
1 Rangers (USA: New York NY hockey, TX baseball)
1 Rockies (USA: Casper WY, CO, both baseball)
1 RoughRiders (USA: Cedar Rapids IA hockey, Frisco TX baseball)
1 Rovers (UK: Blackburn, England; Doncaster, England; both soccer)
1 Senators (USA: Harrisburg PA, Jackson MS, both baseball)
1 Suns (USA: Hagerstown MD baseball, Phoenix AZ basketball)
1 Swans (Australia: Sydney NSW, East Devonport TAS, both
Australian football)
1 Thunder (USA: MN soccer, Wichita KS hockey)
1 United (UK: Manchester, England; Sheffield, England; both
soccer)
1 VfL (Germany: Bochum, Wolfsburg, both soccer)
1 Wizards (USA: Kansas City MO soccer, Washington DC basketball)
WRONG:
1 England (soccer team, rugby team) (place name)
1 Fresno Grizzlies, Gateway Grizzlies (USA: Fresno CA, Saugus
IL, both baseball) (Gateway is not a place name,
so effective names are different)
1 Ravens (USA: Baltimore MD football; Canada: Vancouver BC
lacrosse) (different countries)
1 Real Sociedad, Real Madrid (Spain, both soccer) (Sociedad
is not a place name, so effective names are different)

For the sake of brevity, "football" unqualified above means American
football.

A very wide spread of answers here; the only way to go wrong was to
give a wrong answer, and because of the unusual style of the question,
I didn't penalize people for giving the answer in the wrong form either.

I was surprised at the large fraction of correct answers where both
teams played the same sport.

I probably should have ruled out teams whose name consists only of a
place name and something like "athletic club" or an abbreviation thereof;
there aren't any of those in leagues I've ever paid much attention to,
but they are fairly common in some other places.

In some cases it wasn't 100% clear to me that the teams named were
professional, but there were none where I found they were clearly not.


Thank you all for playing.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "You don't SIT IN the traffic jam;
msb@vex.net | you ARE the traffic jam." -- Werner Icking

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 5:43:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

"Mark Brader" <msb@vex.net> wrote in message
news:10it4dc634cea48@corp.supernews.com...


> | 5. Briefly describe a violation of traffic laws. You must express
> | it as it might be said in an ordinary conversation (in English),
> | e.g. "I got a ticket last week for..." In cases where one place
> | might require one action and another the opposite, corresponding
> | offenses will be taken as equivalent answers.
>
> 2 Bicycling without lights [= Bicycling after dark with no rear
lamp lit]
> 1 Bicycling on footpath
> 1 Bicycling two abreast while pulling trailer
> 1 Bicycling with passenger sitting sideways
> 1 Herding animals across railway without signalman's permission
> 1 Jaywalking
> 1 Walking across railway while crossing gate closing
> WRONG:
> 1 Driving without shoes (no violation)

I'm not sure why my answer was required to be for an automobile (driving a
motorcycle without shoes is against the law) but others were allowed to
include answers related to vehicles such as bicycles, shoes, and cattle.

Doesn't matter either way - just sayin'... As usual, the contest was
written well.

Z
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 5:43:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Mark Brader wrote:

>
> At least one entrant noted that he had considered answering
> with the undiscovered element 118 (provisionally named
> ununoctium), but wasn't sure I'd accept it. I did in MSB14,
> when three people gave it, and I would have again.

I was also tempted to name it, but the discovery claim has been
retracted. Not sure when MSB14 was run, but probably was before
the retraction. Since it's no longer a known element even
provisionally, it probably should not be a valid answer.

--
Dan Tilque
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 5:43:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote in message news:<10it4dc634cea48@corp.supernews.com>...
>
> after
> a series of near misses in recent contests, EUGENE VAN DER PIJLL is
> the winner this time. Congratulations, Eugene! Garmt de Vries, who
> won the last two contests, comes second this time, close behind him;

Well done, Eugene. This is your revenge for MSB39.

> | 1. Name one of the chemical elements known as the noble gases.
>
> At least one entrant noted that he had considered answering with the
> undiscovered element 118 (provisionally named ununoctium), but wasn't
> sure I'd accept it. I did in MSB14, when three people gave it, and I
> would have again.

Just curious... would you have accepted element 168, the hypothetical
next one?

> | 2. Name a series of three or more consecutive monarchs of the same
> | country whose names (as ordinarily used, e.g. Queen Elizabeth II)
> | were the same except for a numeral. Different subseries of the
> | same series will be taken as equivalent answers.
>
> Again a wide spread of answers; it was interesting to see the collision
> on 3rd century Persia.

Yes, that was strange. I stayed away from Egypt, as I thought it would
be just uncommon enough to get many answers, but nobody submitted the
Rameseses from the 20th dynasty or the long series of Ptolemies...

> Thank you all for playing.

Thank you for running another interesting contest!

Garmt de Vries.
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 6:10:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote in message news:<10it4dc634cea48@corp.supernews.com>...
[snip]
> | 3. Name a municipality (city, etc.) whose territory completely
> | surrounds an area that is not part of the municipality (as a
> | country surrounds an enclave).
>
> 1 South Cambridgeshire, England, UK (Cambridge)
> WRONG:
> 1 (Greater) London, England, UK (City of London is part of it)

That's an interesting difference.

>
> One notable example in the US that wasn't taken is Los Angeles (which
> surrounds Beverly Hills).
>

In what sense is Beverly Hills not part of Los Angeles? (not being
difficult, this is an honest question)

--
Larry Lard
Replies to group please
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 8:22:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:49:53 -0500, "DokterZ" <dzahn@execpczzz.com> wrote:

>
>"Mark Brader" <msb@vex.net> wrote in message
>news:10it4dc634cea48@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
>> | 5. Briefly describe a violation of traffic laws. You must express
>> | it as it might be said in an ordinary conversation (in English),
>> | e.g. "I got a ticket last week for..." In cases where one place
>> | might require one action and another the opposite, corresponding
>> | offenses will be taken as equivalent answers.
>>
>> 2 Bicycling without lights [= Bicycling after dark with no rear
>lamp lit]
>> 1 Bicycling on footpath
>> 1 Bicycling two abreast while pulling trailer
>> 1 Bicycling with passenger sitting sideways
>> 1 Herding animals across railway without signalman's permission
>> 1 Jaywalking
>> 1 Walking across railway while crossing gate closing
>> WRONG:
>> 1 Driving without shoes (no violation)
>
>I'm not sure why my answer was required to be for an automobile (driving a
>motorcycle without shoes is against the law) but others were allowed to
>include answers related to vehicles such as bicycles, shoes, and cattle.
>
>Doesn't matter either way - just sayin'... As usual, the contest was
>written well.
>
>Z

In what jurisdiction is driving a motorcycle without shoes a code
violation? While common sense would require shoes, the codes are not
necessarily written to enforce common sense. Unless I missed something,
the only mandatory item specified in the California vehicle code is a
helmet.

Also your answer did not state driving a motorcycle. When others were
referring to a specific vehicle they named the vehicle. Mark is really
good but is still perfecting his mind reading skills. Give him a few more
contests and he'll have it down pat. :-)
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 1:01:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

LarryLard wrote:

> msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote in message
> news:<10it4dc634cea48@corp.supernews.com>... [snip]
>>> 3. Name a municipality (city, etc.) whose territory
>>> completely surrounds an area that is not part of the
>>> municipality (as a country surrounds an enclave).
>>
>> 1 South Cambridgeshire, England, UK (Cambridge)
>> WRONG:
>> 1 (Greater) London, England, UK (City of London is
>> part of it)
>
> That's an interesting difference.

What is South Cambridgeshire? It isn't shown on my Michelin
Motoring Atlas of Great Britain.


>> One notable example in the US that wasn't taken is Los
>> Angeles (which surrounds Beverly Hills).
>>
>
> In what sense is Beverly Hills not part of Los Angeles? (not
> being difficult, this is an honest question)

Beverly Hills and its neighbor West Hollywood are incorporated
cities that are collectively surrounded by the city of Los
Angeles.

--
Dan Tilque
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 2:44:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

In article <10it4dc634cea48@corp.supernews.com>, Mark Brader
<msb@vex.net> writes
>Th
>| 3. Name a municipality (city, etc.) whose territory completely
>| surrounds an area that is not part of the municipality (as a
>| country surrounds an enclave).
>
> 7 Rome, Italy (Vatican City)
> 4 Detroit, MI, USA (Hamtramck)
> 3 Baarle-Hertog, Belgium (parts of Baarle-Nassau, Netherlands)
> 3 Espoo, Finland (Kauniainen)
> 2 Baarle-Nassau, Netherlands (parts of Baarle-Hertog, Belgium)
> 1 Bear Creek Township, PA, USA (Bear Creek Village)
> 1 Berlin, Germany (Tiefenwerder Wiesen)
> 1 Chico, CA, USA (Chapman Town)
> 1 Coal Township, PA, USA (Shamokin)
> 1 Columbus, OH, USA
> 1 Copenhagen, Denmark (Frederiksberg)
> 1 Fort Worth, TX, USA (White Settlement)
> 1 Krummenau, St-Gallen, Switzerland (part of Nesslau)
> 1 Madha, Oman (Nahwa, UAE)
> 1 Madison, WI, USA (Monona)
> 1 Moultrie, GA, USA (Riverside)
> 1 Pajala, Sweden (part of Överkalix)
> 1 Raritan Township, NJ, USA (Flemington)
> 1 San Antonio, Texas (Castle Hills)
> 1 South Cambridgeshire, England, UK (Cambridge)
> 1 Tulare, CA, USA (Bardsley Manor Estates)
> 1 Warren, MI, USA (Center Line)
> 1 Westerville, OH, USA (unidentified)
> 1 Wheaton, IL, USA (unidentified)
> WRONG:
> 1 (Greater) London, England, UK (City of London is part of it)
> 1 Kauniainen, Finland (surrounded *by* Espoo)
> 1 Vancouver, BC, Canada (city does not extend seaward to surround
> University Endowment Lands; or if Greater Vancouver
> was meant, then it includes the UEL)
> 1 Vatican City (surrounded *by* Rome, Italy)


There seems to be some confusion here. Municipality means a town or
city. South Cambridgeshire is neither: Cambridge is judged not to be
part of it. (Would Oxfordshire and Yorkshire be correct answers?). The
City of London is judged to be part of London and therefore wrong.

Regarding Q.4 Have you never seen Steinhager?
John Benney
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 3:02:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

"Mark Brader" wrote:

> 6. Specify a place (of any kind) whose (principal) time zone is
> offset from UT (GMT) by an amount NOT a multiple of 1 hour.
> Different places where (on August 1, 2004) the time zone is
> the same will be taken as equivalent answers.

For the record, Mark changed the rules slightly after I'd submitted my
answer of Vatican City. I admit, I'd got the answer the wrong way around,
but I tried to argue that the US embassy in the Vatican was within the
realms of the (original) rules.

Alas, I've only ever enter one contest without a WR (and I've probably
entered all of them).

Here's to the next one!

As always, I extend my thanks to Mark for his time.

--
Kev
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 6:00:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

"Jeffrey Turner" wrote:


> From the rules, Section 4.1.1
>
> Embassies don't count as special; they may have extraterritorial
> rights, but they're still part of the host country (and city).

As I said, Mark changed the rules. Although technically, he changed them for
this contest, so I should perhaps have read them more carefully.

--
Kev
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 9:44:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

"LarryLard" <larrylard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cd173062.0408270110.2026c786@posting.google.com...
> msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote in message
news:<10it4dc634cea48@corp.supernews.com>...
> [snip]
> > | 3. Name a municipality (city, etc.) whose territory completely
> > | surrounds an area that is not part of the municipality (as a
> > | country surrounds an enclave).
> >
> > 1 South Cambridgeshire, England, UK (Cambridge)
> > WRONG:
> > 1 (Greater) London, England, UK (City of London is part of it)
>
> That's an interesting difference.

The county of Cambridgeshire is divided into several district councils. Two
of them are South Cambridgeshire and Cambridge. It is debatable if South
Cambridgeshire would really count as a municipality but it certainly
surrounds Cambridge.

The City of London is just one of the 30-odd borough councils that make up
Greater London so was correctly ruled incorrect.

Peter Smyth
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 10:00:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

John Benney writes:
> There seems to be some confusion here. Municipality means a town or
> city. South Cambridgeshire is neither ...

I'll respond to this point, because I did mean to mention it in the
results posting. My personal opinion on this agrees with John, but
forms and terminology of local government vary so much from place to
place (even within the English-speaking world, and it's even worse when
other countries come into it) that any definition you apply to words
like "city", "town", and "municipality" is likely to conflict with
some established usage. (And to start a long and boring thread in the
newsgroups, so let's avoid that, okay?)

I basically accepted the term as including any area that has some sort
of local government and definite boundaries, in particular including
things like "districts" or "townships" that exist at the level below
counties and may be rural. These are certainly considered municipalities
in official usage where I live.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Common sense isn't any more common on Usenet
msb@vex.net | than it is anywhere else." --Henry Spencer

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 10:00:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

In article <10iutmehjsgvoa8@corp.supernews.com>,
Mark Brader <msb@vex.net> wrote:
>
>I basically accepted the term as including any area that has some sort
>of local government and definite boundaries, in particular including
>things like "districts" or "townships" that exist at the level below
>counties and may be rural. These are certainly considered municipalities
>in official usage where I live.

A PA township is definitely a municipality. I'm not sure about a
PA district (I'm not even sure if any still exist). Fortunately no
one used them.
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 10:02:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Kevin Stone:
> As I said, Mark changed the rules.

You first said I changed them *after* you entered. Not only is that not
the case, I even called attention to the revision in the original contest
posting. (And it wasn't really a change anyway, just a codification of
an existing practice that I hadn't considered necessary to make explicit.)
--
Mark Brader "We can get ideas even from a clever man." ...
Toronto "Yes, I think you can. Even ideas you should
msb@vex.net have had yourselves." -- John Dickson Carr
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 11:22:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

"Mark Brader" wrote:

> You first said I changed them *after* you entered.

Which is why I corrected myself - I meant I'd only *noticed* after.

--
Kev
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 1:31:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Mark Brader (msb@vex.net) writes:
>| 3. Name a municipality (city, etc.) whose territory completely
>| surrounds an area that is not part of the municipality (as a
>| country surrounds an enclave).
>...
> 1 Pajala, Sweden (part of Överkalix)

This answer appears to be incorrect. Looking at my road atlas, it appears
that Övertorneå surrounds one enclave of Överkalix and another of Pajala.
(Both enclaves appearing to mainly be swamps, populated only my mosquitos.)

Of course, there might some ridiculously small enclave that is not on
the map.

--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esquel@sommarskog.se
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 2:13:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Erland Sommarskog <esquel@sommarskog.se> wrote:

> Mark Brader (msb@vex.net) writes:
>>| 3. Name a municipality (city, etc.) whose territory completely
>>| surrounds an area that is not part of the municipality (as a
>>| country surrounds an enclave).
>>...
>> 1 Pajala, Sweden (part of Överkalix)
>
> This answer appears to be incorrect. Looking at my road atlas, it
> appears that Övertorneå surrounds one enclave of Överkalix and another
> of Pajala. (Both enclaves appearing to mainly be swamps, populated
> only my mosquitos.)
>
> Of course, there might some ridiculously small enclave that is not on
> the map.
>

Pajala surrounds three small enclaves which can be seen on these maps:
<http://www2.lantmateriet.se/ksos_eng/visaortnamn.jsp?id...;
<http://www2.lantmateriet.se/ksos_eng/visaortnamn.jsp?id...;

They are also shown in Nationalencyklopediens Sverigeatlas.

--
Lejonel Norling
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 2:35:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Lejonel Norling (lejonel@telia.com) writes:
> Pajala surrounds three small enclaves which can be seen on these maps:
><http://www2.lantmateriet.se/ksos_eng/visaortnamn.jsp?id...;

That link placed me around Sysslebäck, which is far away from Pajala.

><http://www2.lantmateriet.se/ksos_eng/visaortnamn.jsp?id...;

This one brought me to Jokkmokk, which is the same county, but still
several hundreds km away.

More generally, the links from Lantmäteriverket's site appears to be short-
lived. (And overall the site is difficult to use and looks ugly.)

I did review the border area between Pajala and Överkalix, and eventually
managed to find them.




--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esquel@sommarskog.se
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 2:48:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

In article <10iutmehjsgvoa8@corp.supernews.com>, Mark Brader
<msb@vex.net> writes
>John Benney writes:
>> There seems to be some confusion here. Municipality means a town or
>> city. South Cambridgeshire is neither ...
>
>I'll respond to this point, because I did mean to mention it in the
>results posting. My personal opinion on this agrees with John, but
>forms and terminology of local government vary so much from place to
>place (even within the English-speaking world, and it's even worse when
>other countries come into it) that any definition you apply to words
>like "city", "town", and "municipality" is likely to conflict with
>some established usage. (And to start a long and boring thread in the
>newsgroups, so let's avoid that, okay?)
>
>I basically accepted the term as including any area that has some sort
>of local government and definite boundaries, in particular including
>things like "districts" or "townships" that exist at the level below
>counties and may be rural. These are certainly considered municipalities
>in official usage where I live.


OK. In a spirit of friendship I'll accept that, though I think you are
wrong. But what the hell is wrong with stoneware for question 4?
Stone is judged to be correct because it is a kind of pottery but
stoneware is wrong though it is a kind of pottery. As I said before
did you ever see Steinhager or Dutch gin?
--
JohnBenney
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 4:40:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

larrylard@hotmail.com (LarryLard) writes:

> msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote in message news:<10it4dc634cea48@corp.supernews.com>...

> >
> > One notable example in the US that wasn't taken is Los Angeles (which
> > surrounds Beverly Hills).
> >
>
> In what sense is Beverly Hills not part of Los Angeles? (not being
> difficult, this is an honest question)

It's an indpendent city, with its own government, not part of Los Angeles.

Many large US cities have smaller ones that are completely surrounded;
other US examples include West Hollywood, CA (also inside Los Angeles);
Piedmont, CA (inside Oakland); Bellaire and West University Place, TX
(both inside Houston; they touch each other); Highland Park, MI (also
inside Detroit); Speedway, IN (inside Indianapolis; thus the
Indianapolis 500 is not held in the city of Indianapolis).

--
David Grabiner, grabiner@alumni.princeton.edu, http://remarque.org/~grabiner
Baseball labor negotiations FAQ: http://remarque.org/~grabiner/laborfaq.html
Shop at the Mobius Strip Mall: Always on the same side of the street!
Klein Glassworks, Torus Coffee and Donuts, Projective Airlines, etc.
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 8:54:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote in message news:<10it4dc634cea48@corp.supernews.com>...
> With an extra week allowed, there were 42 entries this time, and after
> a series of near misses in recent contests, EUGENE VAN DER PIJLL is
> the winner this time. Congratulations, Eugene! Garmt de Vries, who
> won the last two contests, comes second this time, close behind him;
> and the entrant whose email address is "freek1980@hotmail.com" comes
> third.

Yay! And well done, Garmt, and Freek too. Looks like a 1-2-3 for the
Netherlands.

> | 2. Name a series of three or more consecutive monarchs of the same
> | country whose names (as ordinarily used, e.g. Queen Elizabeth II)
> | were the same except for a numeral. Different subseries of the
> | same series will be taken as equivalent answers.

> 1 Heinrich XLII, LXII, LXVII, Reuss-Gera

I initially thought of the senior line of Reuss, which would have been
a 1. (Reuss-Gera is the junior line.) But I wasn't sure if that was an
independent country, so I went for the obscure Persians instead.

> 3 Willem I-III, Netherlands [= William I-III]
> 1 William I-III, Luxembourg (Guillaume I-III)

These refer to the same individuals. I'm not sure if that makes these
answers equivalent.

> Thank you all for playing.

And thank you for the contest!

Eugene
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 1:32:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Hi Mark!

Great contest!

Mark Brader schrieb:
> | 5. Briefly describe a violation of traffic laws. You must express
> | it as it might be said in an ordinary conversation (in English),
> | e.g. "I got a ticket last week for..." In cases where one place
> | might require one action and another the opposite, corresponding
> | offenses will be taken as equivalent answers.

> 1 Herding animals across railway without signalman's permission

> 1 Transporting spent nuclear fuel without notifying Highway Patrol



Somehow, I doubt a conversation mentioning these incidents could be
termed "ordinary". ;) 




> | 8. Name an English word (not a proper name, not a Roman numeral)
> | containing the consecutive letters "ii".
>
> 7 Taxiing
> 5 Water-skiing [= Waterskiing]
> 3 Shanghaiing
> 2 Genii
> 2 Radii
> 2 Reduviid
> 1 Aquariist
> 1 Diiamb
> 1 Fasciitis
> 1 Foliicolous
> 1 Hongiing
> 1 Nauplii
> 1 Perigangliitis
> 1 Poeciliid
> 1 Shiitake
> 1 Splenii
> 1 Stranskiite
> 1 Teiid
> 1 Tholeiite
> 1 Torii
> 1 Trapezii
> 1 Triiodide
> 1 Triiodothyronine
> 1 Zombiism

Now could someone please explain what all of these mean?


> Thank you all for playing.

Thank you for the game!

Michael
--
Feel the stare of my burning hamster and stop smoking!
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 2:04:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

> Now could someone please explain what all of these mean?

Well, dictionary.com could, at least for most of them, but since I was
curious myself, here's the list (entries marked by * are those I had to
look up):

>> 7 Taxiing

What a plane does before takeoff or after landing.

>> 5 Water-skiing [= Waterskiing]

A rather silly looking extreme sport.

>> 3 Shanghaiing

Kidnapping someone for compulsive service on a ship

>> 2 Genii

Plural of Genius

>> 2 Radii

Plural of Radius

>> 2 Reduviid

An assassin bug *

>> 1 Aquariist

??

>> 1 Diiamb

A metrical foot consisting of two iambs.

>> 1 Fasciitis

Inflammation in a fascia. *

>> 1 Foliicolous

Thriving on or parasitic to leaves. *

>> 1 Hongiing

To greet another or exchange greetings in Maori fashion by touching or
pressing noses together. *

>> 1 Nauplii

Plural of nauplius, which is the free-swimming first stage of the larva of
certain crustaceans, having an unsegmented body with three pairs of
appendages and a single median eye. *

>> 1 Perigangliitis

??

>> 1 Poeciliid

Small usually brightly-colored viviparous surface-feeding fishes of fresh
or brackish warm waters; often used in mosquito control *

>> 1 Shiitake

A type of edible mushroom.

>> 1 Splenii

Either of two muscles of the back of the neck, extending from the upper
vertebrae to the base of the skull, that rotate and extend the head and
neck. *

>> 1 Stranskiite

???

>> 1 Teiid

Of or belonging to the Teiidae, a large family of mainly tropical American
lizards characterized by a long forked tongue and the absence of bony
plates beneath the scales. *

>> 1 Tholeiite

??


>> 1 Torii

The gateway of a Shinto temple, consisting of two uprights supporting a
concave crosspiece with projecting ends and a straight crosspiece beneath
it. *

>> 1 Trapezii

Two large flat triangular muscles running from the base of the occiput to
the middle of the back that support and make it possible to raise the head
and shoulders. *

>> 1 Triiodide

A binary compound containing three atoms of iodine combined with an
element or radical *

>> 1 Triiodothyronine

A thyroid hormone, C15H12I3NO4, similar to thyroxine but more potent, used
in the treatment of hypothyroidism *

>> 1 Zombiism

The attribute of being a zombie.


----

Anyone here can fill in the gaps?

Eytan
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 2:28:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Kevin Stone schrieb:
> "Jeffrey Turner" wrote:
> > From the rules, Section 4.1.1
> >
> > Embassies don't count as special; they may have extraterritorial
> > rights, but they're still part of the host country (and city).
>
> As I said, Mark changed the rules. Although technically, he changed them for
> this contest, so I should perhaps have read them more carefully.

I got bitten by the same one; however, luckily I'd chosen Berlin for its
embassies, and because Berlin is big and weird enough, I turned up an
actual enclave when Mark reminded me the embassies were a no-go. :) 

Michael
--
Feel the stare of my burning hamster and stop smoking!
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 8:38:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

In article <Xns95535CC34FC1Yazorman@127.0.0.1>,
Erland Sommarskog <esquel@sommarskog.se> wrote:

> Lejonel Norling (lejonel@telia.com) writes:
> > Pajala surrounds three small enclaves which can be seen on these maps:
> ><http://www2.lantmateriet.se/ksos_eng/visaortnamn.jsp?id...;
>
> That link placed me around Sysslebäck, which is far away from Pajala.
>
> ><http://www2.lantmateriet.se/ksos_eng/visaortnamn.jsp?id...;
>
> This one brought me to Jokkmokk, which is the same county, but still
> several hundreds km away.
>
> More generally, the links from Lantmäteriverket's site appears to be short-
> lived. (And overall the site is difficult to use and looks ugly.)

Heh, all I got was a message in Swedish explaining that they're not set
up for Macs, or that I should switch to some obsolete browser software,
or something like that:

Meddelande från "KartSök och ortnamn":

Du tycks använda operativsystemet Macintosh.

Använder du Internet Explorer 5 tillsammans med Apples Java-motor
Macintosh Runtime for Java 2.2 (MRJ) kan det uppstå problem med att visa
kartbilder, p g a en känd bugg i dessa system.

Vi arbetar med att få KartSök och ortnamn att fungera i Internet
Explorer 5.1 och uppåt samt Netscape 6 och uppåt för Mac OS.
Vidare till KartSök och ortnamn...

För att "KartSök och ortnamn" skall fungera måste JavaScript vara
aktiverat.

--
David Eppstein
Computer Science Dept., Univ. of California, Irvine
http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 11:17:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Jeffrey Turner schrieb:
> Eytan Zweig wrote:
>
> >>Now could someone please explain what all of these mean?
>
> >>> 1 Aquariist
>
> Someone with an aquarium or aquaria.

Thank you, Eytan and Jeff.

Michael
--
Feel the stare of my burning hamster and stop smoking!
Anonymous
August 29, 2004 12:49:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

> | 4. Name a substance which is used to make containers in which
> | beverages are commonly sold in retail stores. You must refer to
> | the substance in the way you would if describing the container
> | (in English) to the retailer, rather than giving a more specific
> | technical description. Substances used only for small parts of
> | the container, or only for decoration or labeling, don't count.

> "Tin cans" aren't typically really
> made of tin these days, but people might speak of it that way, so under
> the question I decided to accept it.

The scoring of this one seems wrong. When people talk about a "tin can" they
normally mean aluminum (although realistically they could mean any metal).
The question is to name the substance, not the word. So "tin" should be
scored as an equivalent answer to either "aluminum" or "metal"


> | 3. Name a municipality (city, etc.) whose territory completely
> | surrounds an area that is not part of the municipality (as a
> | country surrounds an enclave).

> see. Some places have grown in an extreme patchwork fashion, annexing
> odd-shaped bits of land and leaving others alone, and have many
"enclaves".
> One entrant who was going to choose Columbus, OH, looked at a map and
> realized that at least six of its suburbs also qualified; he made the
> wise choice of changing his answer to one of them, Westerville.

According to the references I found, the normal term is "island". The
challenge I found is that town councils are constantly considering requests
to amalgamate new bits of land and many of them give special preference to
islands. I verified that the answer I gave was correct as recently as last
month, but I suspect that most of the maps cited by entrants to this contest
would be out of date (at this level of detail).


> 8. 2744 Andrew Krywaniuk WR 14 1 1 2 1 WR 1 1 1

Wow... best score I ever got with 2 WRs. (guess I got the "right" ones
wrong)

Andrew
Anonymous
August 29, 2004 5:14:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Andrew Krywaniuk wrote:

>>| 4. Name a substance which is used to make containers in which
>>| beverages are commonly sold in retail stores. You must refer to
>>| the substance in the way you would if describing the container
>>| (in English) to the retailer, rather than giving a more specific
>>| technical description. Substances used only for small parts of
>>| the container, or only for decoration or labeling, don't count.
>
>
>>"Tin cans" aren't typically really
>>made of tin these days, but people might speak of it that way, so under
>>the question I decided to accept it.
>
>
> The scoring of this one seems wrong. When people talk about a "tin can" they
> normally mean aluminum (although realistically they could mean any metal).
> The question is to name the substance, not the word. So "tin" should be
> scored as an equivalent answer to either "aluminum" or "metal"
>
>

"tin" cans refer to tin plated steel cans, never aluminum.
Anonymous
August 29, 2004 6:13:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

David Eppstein (eppstein@ics.uci.edu) writes:
> Heh, all I got was a message in Swedish explaining that they're not set
> up for Macs, or that I should switch to some obsolete browser software,
> or something like that:

Actually, they appear to let you in, but they give you a warning:

> Du tycks använda operativsystemet Macintosh.

You appear to use the operating-system (!) Macintosh.

> Använder du Internet Explorer 5 tillsammans med Apples Java-motor
> Macintosh Runtime for Java 2.2 (MRJ) kan det uppstå problem med att visa
> kartbilder, p g a en känd bugg i dessa system.

If you use Internet Explorer 5 together with Apple's Java engine Macintosh
Runinte For Java 2.2 (MRJ) there might be problems to show maps, due to
a known bug in these systems.

> Vi arbetar med att få KartSök och ortnamn att fungera i Internet
> Explorer 5.1 och uppåt samt Netscape 6 och uppåt för Mac OS.
> Vidare till KartSök och ortnamn...

We working to make MapSeek and Place names to work in Internet Explorer 5.1
and up, and in Netscapte 6 and up for MacOS. Continue to MapSeek and
PlaceNames. (This last sentence is a clickable link, and leads you to
the site.)

> För att "KartSök och ortnamn" skall fungera måste JavaScript vara
> aktiverat.

For "MapSeek and Placenames" to work, Javascript must be enabled.

I was met by a similar message when I accessed the site in Opera, so I
switched to Mozilla. But I find now that I can access the site from
Opera.

It looks equally ugly in both, with the big picture of Sweden being
cut off.

--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esquel@sommarskog.se
Anonymous
August 30, 2004 9:45:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

> "tin" cans refer to tin plated steel cans, never aluminum.

I have never seen anything reasonably classified as a drink sold in that
type of can. In any case, it still seems to me that by the wording of the
question, tin should either be rejected or it should be scored as equivalent
to some other answer (metal, steel, etc).

Andrew
Anonymous
August 30, 2004 5:42:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

"Andrew Krywaniuk" <askrywan@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:w9zYc.267127$gE.95192@pd7tw3no:

>> "tin" cans refer to tin plated steel cans, never aluminum.
>
> I have never seen anything reasonably classified as a drink sold
> in that type of can.

Way, way back when I was young, much younger than ..... etc etc
There were things called "tinnies"
And if you took a piercing implement and put a triangular shaped hole
on each "side" of the top
One could gently sip something then called "beer" :-)


> In any case, it still seems to me that by the
> wording of the question, tin should either be rejected or it
> should be scored as equivalent to some other answer (metal, steel,
> etc).

I trust you will understand if I agree with Mr Brader ;-))
He said his marking was "final"
Also keeps my score within reasonable limits

And having a WR answer with "Australia" for Q6 (elaborated as "eg:
"Central Time" [ South Australia and Northern Territory] UT +9.5
hours", then I have need of all the help I can get :-P

>
> Andrew
>


and "Thank You" Mark for another well thought out and interesting "Rare
Entries" contest

Have a great week all

Kind regards

John Hindge

"There is no use trying," said Alice. "One can't believe impossible
things." "I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen.
"When I was your age, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why,
sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before
breakfast." Lewis Carroll
Anonymous
August 30, 2004 8:20:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

> Way, way back when I was young, much younger than ..... etc etc
> There were things called "tinnies"
> And if you took a piercing implement and put a triangular shaped hole
> on each "side" of the top
> One could gently sip something then called "beer" :-)

But the question said "are", not "were".

Andrew
Anonymous
August 30, 2004 10:24:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Somebody claiming to be "Andrew Krywaniuk" <askrywan@hotmail.com> quoted
Giovani in news:itIYc.272720$gE.263265@pd7tw3no:

>> Way, way back when I was young, much younger than ..... etc etc
>> There were things called "tinnies"
>> And if you took a piercing implement and put a triangular shaped hole
>> on each "side" of the top
>> One could gently sip something then called "beer" :-)
>
> But the question said "are", not "were".

Isn't Hi-C still sold in that sort of can?

--
Ted <fedya at bestweb dot net>
Barney: Hey, Homer, you're late for English.
Homer: Who needs English? I'm never going to England.
<http://www.snpp.com/episodes/7F12.html&gt;
Anonymous
August 30, 2004 11:31:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

John Hindge:
> And having a WR answer with "Australia" for Q6 (elaborated as "eg:
> "Central Time" [ South Australia and Northern Territory] UT +9.5
> hours", then I have need of all the help I can get :-P

Excerpt from rule 3.1: "if you give an answer that properly refers to
a different thing related to the one you intended, I will normally take
it as written." John's elaboratory comment points out that there are
*parts* of Australia that would have been correct answers, but his
*answer* on the question was Australia. To score it correct would be
unfair to people who gave answers that actually were correct.
--
Mark Brader "By this time I was feeling guilty. No, correction,
Toronto I was feeling that I *should* feel guilty ..."
msb@vex.net -- Jude Devereaux

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 6:29:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

"Peter Smyth" <psmyth@freenetname.co.uk> wrote in message news:<2p96njFhrl9sU1@uni-berlin.de>...
> "LarryLard" <larrylard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:cd173062.0408270110.2026c786@posting.google.com...
> > msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote in message
> news:<10it4dc634cea48@corp.supernews.com>...
> > [snip]
> > > | 3. Name a municipality (city, etc.) whose territory completely
> > > | surrounds an area that is not part of the municipality (as a
> > > | country surrounds an enclave).
> > >
> > > 1 South Cambridgeshire, England, UK (Cambridge)
> > > WRONG:
> > > 1 (Greater) London, England, UK (City of London is part of it)
> >
> > That's an interesting difference.
>
> The county of Cambridgeshire is divided into several district councils. Two
> of them are South Cambridgeshire and Cambridge. It is debatable if South
> Cambridgeshire would really count as a municipality but it certainly
> surrounds Cambridge.
>
> The City of London is just one of the 30-odd borough councils that make up
> Greater London so was correctly ruled incorrect.

On the other hand, the City of London is a distinct ceremonial county
(as opposed to county or administrative county) from Greater London,
whereas South Cambridgeshire is just part of the ceremonial county of
Cambridgeshire. The City of London also has a different electoral
system from the rest of England, and its administration is through the
Corporation of London which does not adminster Greater London.
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 1:35:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Ted S. wrote:

> Somebody claiming to be "Andrew Krywaniuk" <askrywan@hotmail.com> quoted
> Giovani in news:itIYc.272720$gE.263265@pd7tw3no:
>
>
>>>Way, way back when I was young, much younger than ..... etc etc
>>>There were things called "tinnies"
>>>And if you took a piercing implement and put a triangular shaped hole
>>>on each "side" of the top
>>>One could gently sip something then called "beer" :-)
>>
>>But the question said "are", not "were".
>
>
> Isn't Hi-C still sold in that sort of can?
>

Yes, large cans of fruit juice, for example, are still sold this way,
as are little cans condensed milk. If beef and chicken broth could be
considered a beverage (and why not?) then they also qualify.
Small beverage cans are all aluminum in this neck of the woods. The aluminum
can is a fairly recent invention, maybe 40 years ago.

Chuck Grant
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 9:41:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

"Richard Forster" <google.e.domesday@recursor.net> wrote in message
news:c480a78e.0408310129.43ad7c47@posting.google.com...
> "Peter Smyth" <psmyth@freenetname.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:<2p96njFhrl9sU1@uni-berlin.de>...
>> "LarryLard" <larrylard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:cd173062.0408270110.2026c786@posting.google.com...
>> > msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote in message
>> news:<10it4dc634cea48@corp.supernews.com>...
>> > [snip]
>> > > | 3. Name a municipality (city, etc.) whose territory completely
>> > > | surrounds an area that is not part of the municipality (as a
>> > > | country surrounds an enclave).
>> > >
>> > > 1 South Cambridgeshire, England, UK (Cambridge)
>> > > WRONG:
>> > > 1 (Greater) London, England, UK (City of London is part of it)
>> >
>> > That's an interesting difference.
>>
>> The county of Cambridgeshire is divided into several district councils.
>> Two
>> of them are South Cambridgeshire and Cambridge. It is debatable if South
>> Cambridgeshire would really count as a municipality but it certainly
>> surrounds Cambridge.
>>
>> The City of London is just one of the 30-odd borough councils that make
>> up
>> Greater London so was correctly ruled incorrect.
>
> On the other hand, the City of London is a distinct ceremonial county
> (as opposed to county or administrative county) from Greater London,
> whereas South Cambridgeshire is just part of the ceremonial county of
> Cambridgeshire. The City of London also has a different electoral
> system from the rest of England, and its administration is through the
> Corporation of London which does not adminster Greater London.

The City of London is not and has never been a county, ceremonial or
otherwise. Historically it was part of Middlesex and now it is part of
Greater London. The electoral system has nothing to do with it, it is just
as much part of Greater London as any other borough.

Peter Smyth
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 7:44:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

"Peter Smyth" <psmyth@freenetname.co.uk> wrote in message news:<2pjo1sFlv5ggU1@uni-berlin.de>...
> "Richard Forster" <google.e.domesday@recursor.net> wrote in message
> news:c480a78e.0408310129.43ad7c47@posting.google.com...
> > "Peter Smyth" <psmyth@freenetname.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:<2p96njFhrl9sU1@uni-berlin.de>...
> >> "LarryLard" <larrylard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:cd173062.0408270110.2026c786@posting.google.com...
> >> > msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote in message
> news:<10it4dc634cea48@corp.supernews.com>...
> >> > [snip]
> >> > > | 3. Name a municipality (city, etc.) whose territory completely
> >> > > | surrounds an area that is not part of the municipality (as a
> >> > > | country surrounds an enclave).
> >> > >
> >> > > 1 South Cambridgeshire, England, UK (Cambridge)
> >> > > WRONG:
> >> > > 1 (Greater) London, England, UK (City of London is part of it)
> >> >
> >> > That's an interesting difference.
> >>
> >> The county of Cambridgeshire is divided into several district councils.
> >> Two
> >> of them are South Cambridgeshire and Cambridge. It is debatable if South
> >> Cambridgeshire would really count as a municipality but it certainly
> >> surrounds Cambridge.
> >>
> >> The City of London is just one of the 30-odd borough councils that make
> >> up
> >> Greater London so was correctly ruled incorrect.
> >
> > On the other hand, the City of London is a distinct ceremonial county
> > (as opposed to county or administrative county) from Greater London,
> > whereas South Cambridgeshire is just part of the ceremonial county of
> > Cambridgeshire. The City of London also has a different electoral
> > system from the rest of England, and its administration is through the
> > Corporation of London which does not adminster Greater London.
>
> The City of London is not and has never been a county, ceremonial or
> otherwise. Historically it was part of Middlesex and now it is part of
> Greater London. The electoral system has nothing to do with it, it is just
> as much part of Greater London as any other borough.

I had thought that the "ceremonial counties" were defined as those
with an appointed Lord Lieutenant, and Greater London and the City of
London have their own Lord Lieutenants.

According to the Lieutenancies Act of 1997
(http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1997/1997023.htm), Schedule 1
(Counties and areas for the purposes of the lieutenancies in Great
Britain):

"2. The counties in England for the purposes of this Act are- (a)
Greater London (excluding the City of London); [snip]"

and

"4. The City of London shall be treated as a county for the purposes
of sections 5 and 6."

So, even if we disagree on the definition of "cermonial county" the
City of London is given as a separate entity from Greater London and
defined as a county for the purposes of the Lieutenancies Act.
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 6:15:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Andrew Krywaniuk sez:

<<
>> "tin" cans refer to tin plated steel cans, never aluminum.
>
>I have never seen anything reasonably classified as a drink sold in that
>type of can.
>
>>

Tomato juice is usually sold in such cans...


----
If [Michael Moore] makes a mistake in [F 9/11], it's not that he's careless
with the facts ... It's that he suggests Bush is the cause of our problems,
when, in fact, Bush is just the result.
--The Libertarian Lessons of Fahrenheit 9/11
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 4:12:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

"John & Carol Benney" <benney@gameskeeper.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bYBFYBAKKwLBFwk2@gameskeeper.demon.co.uk...
> In article <10it4dc634cea48@corp.supernews.com>, Mark Brader
> <msb@vex.net> writes
> >Th
> >| 3. Name a municipality (city, etc.) whose territory completely
> >| surrounds an area that is not part of the municipality (as a
> >| country surrounds an enclave).
> >
> > 7 Rome, Italy (Vatican City)
> > 4 Detroit, MI, USA (Hamtramck)
> > 3 Baarle-Hertog, Belgium (parts of Baarle-Nassau, Netherlands)
> > 3 Espoo, Finland (Kauniainen)
> > 2 Baarle-Nassau, Netherlands (parts of Baarle-Hertog, Belgium)
> > 1 Bear Creek Township, PA, USA (Bear Creek Village)
> > 1 Berlin, Germany (Tiefenwerder Wiesen)
> > 1 Chico, CA, USA (Chapman Town)
> > 1 Coal Township, PA, USA (Shamokin)
> > 1 Columbus, OH, USA
> > 1 Copenhagen, Denmark (Frederiksberg)
> > 1 Fort Worth, TX, USA (White Settlement)
> > 1 Krummenau, St-Gallen, Switzerland (part of Nesslau)
> > 1 Madha, Oman (Nahwa, UAE)
> > 1 Madison, WI, USA (Monona)
> > 1 Moultrie, GA, USA (Riverside)
> > 1 Pajala, Sweden (part of Överkalix)
> > 1 Raritan Township, NJ, USA (Flemington)
> > 1 San Antonio, Texas (Castle Hills)
> > 1 South Cambridgeshire, England, UK (Cambridge)
> > 1 Tulare, CA, USA (Bardsley Manor Estates)
> > 1 Warren, MI, USA (Center Line)
> > 1 Westerville, OH, USA (unidentified)
> > 1 Wheaton, IL, USA (unidentified)
> > WRONG:
> > 1 (Greater) London, England, UK (City of London is part of it)
> > 1 Kauniainen, Finland (surrounded *by* Espoo)
> > 1 Vancouver, BC, Canada (city does not extend seaward to surround
> > University Endowment Lands; or if Greater Vancouver
> > was meant, then it includes the UEL)
> > 1 Vatican City (surrounded *by* Rome, Italy)
>
>
> There seems to be some confusion here. Municipality means a town or
> city. South Cambridgeshire is neither: Cambridge is judged not to be
> part of it. (Would Oxfordshire and Yorkshire be correct answers?). The
> City of London is judged to be part of London and therefore wrong.
>

I'll respond here, as I'm the person who gave South Cambridgeshire as their
answer.

I looked up municipality in my dictionary (Collins English Dictionary 2nd
ed) before looking around, as it's not a word in common usage in the UK. It
gave "a city, town or district enjoying some degree of local
self-government"

South Cambridgeshire District and Cambridge City are both organisations at
the same level (both Districts of Cambridgeshire County), and the one
surrounds the other.


--
Richard
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 4:16:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

"Mark Brader" <msb@vex.net> wrote in message
news:10it4dc634cea48@corp.supernews.com...
> | 2. Name a series of three or more consecutive monarchs of the same
> | country whose names (as ordinarily used, e.g. Queen Elizabeth II)
> | were the same except for a numeral. Different subseries of the
> | same series will be taken as equivalent answers.
>
> WRONG:
> 1 Amadeo V-VII, Savoy (not consecutive)
> 1 Louis (did not specify a series of monarchs)
> 1 Ludwig (did not specify a series of monarchs)
> 1 Portugal (not a series of monarchs)
>
> In a few cases, the rule of one of the subsequent monarchs in a sequence
> was disputed, but I accepted them as consecutive if anyone did and they
> came to undisputed power.
>
>
> As to the wrong answers, some entrants gave their answer in incorrect or
> incomplete form, while another apparently got the numbering of the Amadeos
> wrong (Amadeo VI-VIII of Savoy would have been correct), which I didn't
> think I should accept as a spelling error.
>


D'oh. I should have double checked this. I completely agree with your
rejection of my answer as correct !

--
Richard
Anonymous
September 9, 2004 1:18:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

From: alanerskinedovetonvic@yahoo.com.au (alan erskine i just moved to
Doveton,vic south of the park near Melbourne Anyone here done anything
there)
Newsgroups: aus.computers
Subject: I've just moved to Doveton, south of the park to get kids in
the nud and put them on my pc
Message-ID: <d2a33735.0409090815.7686dbc9@posting.google.com>

All messages from thread
Message 1 in thread
From: Alan Erskine (alanerskine1@bigpond.com)
Subject: Biking in Churchill and Lysterfield park (near Melbourne)


View this article only
Newsgroups: aus.bicycle
Date: 2004-09-20 09:46:02 PST


Anyone here done anything there and what's it like - I've just moved
to
Doveton, south of the park to get kids.

--
Alan Erskine
We can get people to the Moon in five years,
not the fifteen GWB proposes.
Give NASA a real challenge
Alanterskine1@bigpond.com
Post a follow-up to this message

Message 2 in thread
From: Skewer (thisdontwork@example.com)
Subject: Re: Biking in Churchill and Lysterfield park (near Melbourne)


View this article only
Newsgroups: aus.bicycle



Alan Erskine wrote:
> Anyone here done anything there and what's it like - I've just moved to
> Doveton, south of the park.
>
Calling Bikesoiler...
You here?
Post a follow-up to this message

Message 3 in thread
From: cfsmtb (cfsmtb.1bbdpy@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com)
Subject: Re: Biking in Churchill and Lysterfield park (near Melbourne)


View this article only
Newsgroups: aus.bicycle



Skewer Wrote:
> Alan Erskine wrote:
> > Anyone here done anything there and what's it like - I've just moved to
> > Doveton, south of the park.
> >
> Calling Bikesoiler...
> You here?

He's off doing something else at present, but probably will respond to
this thread in detail. ie: the 2006 Commonwealth MTB Course and
general
trail use issues in the park. cheers. ;) 


--
cfsmtb

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Message 4 in thread
From: NickZX6R (zx6r@thegarbage.angrydwarf.net)
Subject: Re: Biking in Churchill and Lysterfield park (near Melbourne)


View this article only
Newsgroups: aus.bicycle



Alan Erskine wrote:
> Anyone here done anything there and what's it like - I've just moved to
> Doveton, south of the park.
>

Lysterfield and Churchill are both good places to ride. They're on
either side of a hill so you can go from one park to the other.

Lysterfield wins it for me because it's got better singletrack than
Churchill (unless I haven't found the good singletracks yet:) .

--
Nick
Post a follow-up to this message

Message 5 in thread
From: Ray Peace (ferret@jeack.com.au)
Subject: Re: Biking in Churchill and Lysterfield park (near Melbourne)


View this article only
Newsgroups: aus.bicycle



Greetings,
Ring Parks Victoria (13-1963) and ask them to send you
the trail map. Good MTB trails all over the place, including an old
tramway if you are into such things. As far as I know, PV restrict
access in Lysterfield for trail bikes and horses, but not cyclists,
except some chicanes which are not easy to get through. The only real
problem is the approach roads, if you are riding to the park, the
traffic is a horror from all directions.
Regards,
Ray.

Alan Erskine wrote:

>Anyone here done anything there and what's it like - I've just moved
to
>Doveton, south of the park.
>

Post a follow-up to this message

Message 6 in thread
From: Hike Lake Tahoe (hikelaketahoe@aol.com)
Subject: Re: Biking in Churchill and Lysterfield park (near Melbourne)


View this article only
Newsgroups: aus.bicycle



"Alan Erskine" <alanerskine1@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:<bSoVc.691$D7.228@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> Anyone here done anything there and what's it like - I've just moved to
> Doveton, south of the park.

Hike Lake Tahoe

he moved next to a park now you will have too keep a eye on your kids.
Post a follow-up to this message

Message 7 in thread
From: Bikesoiler (Bikesoiler.1bdymy@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com)
Subject: Re: Biking in Churchill and Lysterfield park (near Melbourne)


View this article only
Newsgroups: aus.bicycle



Alan Erskine Wrote:
> Anyone here done anything there and what's it like - I've just moved to
> Doveton, south of the park.

Lots of good singletrack awaits you. :)  Once the new track is built
(<6 months) there will be something for just about everybody in the
park.
No real Downhill type stuff but plenty of technical MTB fun.
For further details on riding in the park.
http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/lysterfieldmtb/
Commonwealth Games info - http://tinyurl.com/5eabg


--
Bikesoiler


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