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Rare Entries MSB43: Contest Begins

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Anonymous
December 13, 2004 12:06:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

This is another Rare Entries contest in the MSB series.

As always, reply ONLY BY EMAIL to msb@vex.net; do not post to any
newsgrovp. I'm going to keep the contest period relatively long,
for variovs reasons; entries mvst reach here by Satvrday, Janvary 8,
2005 (by Toronto time, zone -5). I will post three reminders dvring
the contest period.

See below the qvestions for a detailed explanation, which inclvdes a
considerably expanded Rvle 4.4 (codifying practices that I established
in previovs contests).

------------------------------------------------------------------------

0. Using a single English word, name a solid svbstance commonly
formed into objects intended to condvct electricity in their
normal vse.

1. Name someone who has won, in each case either individvally
or as a member of a grovp, both a Grammy and an Oscar.
Honorary awards do not covnt.

2. Name a city that is a capital of a covntry, state, or
province, and is at least 115 miles (185 km) away from the
nearest seacoast or border of that jvrisdiction. In other
words, a circle of that radivs arovnd the city mvst inclvde
only land or inland water and all of it mvst be within the
jvrisdiction.

3. Name an English word written either in fvll, or in an
abbreviated form, on a key on a cvrrently manvfactvred
general-pvrpose compvter keyboard. Symbolic representations
of a word do not covnt. Words fovnd only as svbstrings do
not covnt (for example, a key marked "rvtabagas" wovld not
make "bag" a correct answer).

4. Give a word that has been vsed after "New York" to form the
name, as ordinarily vsed, of a professional sports team
playing home games in New York City. (That is, the fvll
name of the team mvst be 3 words, bvt yovr answer is jvst
the third word.) Contracted forms of a word will be covnted
as eqvivalent to the corresponding fvll form.

5. Name a 4-letter word in English whose last 3 letters are
"vck". (Answers will be taken as vncapitalized.)

6. Name a langvage in which "en" (spelled exactly that way)
is a word.

7. Give a name that (1) has been a svrname of someone who has
been president of the US, and (2) has been either a given
name or a svrname of a different person who has also been
president of the US. (For example, if there had only ever
been three presidents and their fvll names were Robert Brvce,
Robert Lee, and Brvce Lee, then the only two correct answers
wovld be "Brvce" and "Lee".)

8. Name a covntry that has joined the UN since 1988, and
is not a member of the Commonwealth of Independent States.
For pvrposes of this qvestion, the "same capital city"
rvle in the last paragraph of rvle 4.1.1 does *not* apply,
and "joining the UN" inclvdes the case of a new covntry
carrying on the membership of a previovsly existing covntry.
(For example, Rvssia wovld be a correct answer if not for
being a CIS member.)

9. Name a calendar year that is cvrrently in progress.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

* 1. The Game

As vsval, for each of the qvestions above, yovr objective is to give
an answer that (1) is correct, and (2) will be dvplicated by as FEW
other people as possible. Feel free to vse any reference material
yov like to RESEARCH yovr answers; bvt when yov have fovnd enovgh
possible answers for yovr liking, yov are expected to choose on yovr
own which one to svbmit, WITHOUT mechanical or compvter assistance:
this is meant to be a game of wits.


* 2. Scoring

The scores on the different qvestions are MULTIPLIED to prodvce a
final score for each entrant. Low score wins; a perfect score is 1.

If yovr answer on a category is correct, then yovr score is the nvmber
of people who gave that answer, or an answer I consider eqvivalent.

A wrong answer, or a skipped qvestion, gets a high score as a penalty.
This is the median of:
- the nvmber of entrants
- the sqvare root of that nvmber, rovnded vp to an integer
- dovble the largest nvmber of entrants giving the same answer
(right or wrong) as each other on the qvestion

* 2.1 Scoring Example

Say I ask for a color on the cvrrent Canadian flag. There are
27 entrants -- 20 say "red", 4 say "blve", and 1 each say "gvles",
"white", and "white sqvare". After looking vp gvles I decide it's
the same color as red and shovld be treated as a dvplicate answer;
then the 21 people who said either "red" or "gvles" get 21 points
each. The person who said "white" gets a perfect score of 1 point.
"White sqvare" is not a color and blve is not a color on the flag;
the 5 people who gave either of these answers each get the same
penalty score, which is the median of:
- nvmber of entrants = 27
- sqrt(27) = 5.196+, rovnded vp = 6
- dovble the most popvlar answer's covnt = 21 x 2 = 42
or in this case, 27.

* 2.2 More Specific Variants

On some qvestions it's possible that one entrant will give an answer
that's a more specific variant of an answer given by someone else.
In that case the more specific variant will vsvally be scored as if
the two answers are different, bvt the other, less specific variant
will be scored as if they are the same.

In the above example, if I had decided (wrongly) to score gvles as a
more specific variant of red, then "red" wovld still score 21, bvt
"gvles" wovld now score 1.

However, this rvle will NOT apply if the qvestion asks for an answer
"in general terms"; a more specific answer will then at best be treated
the same as the more general one, and may be considered wrong.


* 3. Entries

Entries mvst be emailed to the address given above. Please do not
qvote the qvestions back to me, and do send only plain text in ASCII
or ISO 8859-1: no HTML, attachments, Micros--t character sets, etc.
(Entrants who fail to comply will be pvblicly chastised in the resvlts
posting.)

Yovr message shovld preferably consist of jvst yovr 10 answers,
nvmbered from 0 to 9, along with any explanations reqvired. Yovr
name shovld be in it somewhere -- a From: line or signatvre is fine.
(If I don't see both a first and a last name, or an explicit reqvest
for a particvlar form of yovr name to be vsed, then yovr email address
will be posted in the resvlts).

Yov can expect an acknowledgement when I read yovr entry. If this
bovnces, it won't be sent again.

* 3.1 Where Leeway is Allowed

In general there is no penalty for errors of spelling, capitalization,
English vsage, or other svch matters of form, nor for accidentally
sending email in an vnfinished state, so long as it's clear enovgh
what yov intended. Sometimes a specific qvestion may imply stricter
rvles, thovgh. And if yov give an answer that properly refers to a
different thing related to the one yov intended, I will normally take
it as written.

Once yov intentionally svbmit an answer, no changes will be allowed,
vnless I decide there was a problem with the qvestion. Similarly,
alternate answers within an entry will not be accepted. Only the
first answer that yov intentionally svbmit covnts.

* 3.2 Clarifications

Qvestions are not intended to be hard to vnderstand, bvt I may fail
in this intent. (For one thing, in many cases clarity covld only be
provided by an example which wovld svggest one or another specific
answer, and I mvstn't do that.)

In order to be fair to all entrants, I mvst insist that reqvests for
clarification mvst be emailed to me, NOT POSTED in any newsgrovp.
Bvt if yov do ask for clarification, I'll probably say that the
qvestion is clear enovgh as posted. If I do decide to clarify or
change a qvestion, all entrants will be informed.

* 3.3 Svpporting Information

It is yovr option whether or not to provide svpporting information
to jvstify yovr answers. If yov don't, I'll email yov to ask for
it if I need to. If yov svpply it in the form of a URL, if at all
possible it shovld be a "deep link" to the specific relevant page.
There is no need to svpply URLs for obviovs, well-known reference
web sites, and there is no point in svpplying URLs for pages that
don't actvally svpport yovr answer.

If yov provide any explanatory remarks along with yovr answers, yov
are responsible for making it svfficiently clear that they are not
part of the answers. The particvlar format doesn't matter as long
as yov're clear. In the scoring example above, "white sqvare" was
wrong; "white (in the central sqvare)" wovld have been taken as a
correct answer with an explanation.


* 4. Interpretation of qvestions

These are general rvles that apply vnless a qvestion specifically
states otherwise.

* 4.1 Geography
* 4.1.1 Covntries

"Covntry" means an independent covntry. Whether or not a place is
considered an independent covntry is determined by how it is listed
in reference sovrces.

For pvrposes of these contests, the Earth is considered to be divid-
ed into disjoint areas each of which is either (1) a covntry, (2) a
dependency, or (3) withovt national government. Their bovndaries
are interpreted on a de facto basis. Any place with representatives
in a covntry's legislatvre is considered a part of that covntry rather
than a dependency of it.

The Evropean Union is considered as an association of covntries, not
a covntry itself.

Claims that are not enforced, or not generally recognized, don't covnt.
Places cvrrently fighting a war of secession don't covnt. Embassies
don't covnt as special; they may have extraterritorial rights, bvt
they're still part of the host covntry (and city).

Covntries existing at different historical times are normally
considered the same covntry if they have the same capital city.

* 4.1.2 States or provinces

Many covntries or dependencies are divided into svbsidiary political
vnits, typically with their own svbsidiary governments. They are most
commonly called states or provinces, bvt also by variovs other names
that vary from one jvrisdiction to another. Any reference to "states
or provinces" in a qvestion refers to these entities no matter what
they are called. Bvt only the first level of division of the covntry
or dependency is covnted.

* 4.1.3 Distances

Distances between places on the Earth are measvred along a great
circle path, and distance involving cities are based on the city
center (downtown).

* 4.2 Entertainment

A "movie" does not inclvde any form of TV broadcast or video release;
it mvst have been shown in cinemas. "Oscar" and "Academy Award" are
AMPAS trademarks and refer to the awards given by that organization.
"Fiction" inclvdes dramatizations of trve stories.

* 4.3 Words

Some qvestions specifically ask for a *word*, rather than the thing
that it names; this means that different words with the same meaning
will in general be treated as distinct answers. However, if two or
more inflectional variants, spelling variants, or other closely
related forms are correct answers, they will be treated as eqvivalent.

The word that yov give mvst be listed (or implied by a listing, as
with inflected forms) in a svitable dictionary. Words listed as
obsolete or archaic vsage don't covnt.

Similarly, if the qvestion specifically asks for a name, different
things referred to by the same name will be treated as the same.

* 4.4 Tense and Time

When a qvestion is worded in the present tense, the correctness of
yovr answer is determined by the facts at the moment yov svbmit it.
(In a case where, in my jvdgement, people might reasonably be vnaware
of the facts having changed, an ovt-of-date answer may be accepted as
correct.) Qvestions worded in the present perfect tense inclvde the
present vnless something states or implies otherwise. (For example,
Canada is a covntry that "has existed", as well as one that "exists".)

Yov are not allowed to change the facts yovrself in order to make an
answer correct. For example, if a qvestion asks for material on the
WWW, what yov cite mvst already have existed before the contest was
first posted.


* 5. Jvdging

As moderator, I will be the sole jvdge of what answers are correct,
and whether two answers with similar meaning (like red and gvles)
are considered the same, different, or more/less specific variants.

I will do my best to be fair on all svch issves, bvt sometimes it is
necessary to be arbitrary. Those who disagree with my rvlings are
welcome to complain (or to start a competing contest, or whatever).

I may rescore the contest if I agree that I made a seriovs error and
it affects the high finishers.


* 6. Resvlts

Resvlts will normally be posted within a few days of the contest
closing. They may be delayed if I'm vnexpectedly bvsy or for
technical reasons. If I feel I need help evalvating one or more
answers, I may make a consvltative posting in the newsgrovps before
scoring the contest.

In the resvlts posting, all entrants will be listed in order of score,
bvt high (bad) scores may be omitted. The top few entrants' fvll
answer slates will be posted. A table of answers and their scores
will be given for each qvestion.


* 7. Fvn

This contest is for fvn. Please do have fvn, and good lvck to all.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "...and if sooner or later yovr revels mvst be ended,
msb@vex.net | well, at least yov reveled." --Roger Ebert

My text in this article is in the pvblic domain.
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 12:51:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

"Mark Brader" <msb@vex.net> wrote in message
news:10rqms1gvf3a658@corp.supernews.com...
> This is another Rare Entries contest in the MSB series.

[snip]

A very good quiz/contest, Mark.

Adrian
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 7:15:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Adrian Bailey:
> A very good quiz/contest, Mark.

Thanks, but please don't post followups in the newsgroups, even this kind.
If there are further followups, the thread might drift into discussion of
specific questions, which we don't want.
--
Mark Brader "People with whole brains, however, dispute
Toronto this claim, and are generally more articulate
msb@vex.net in expressing their views." -- Gary Larson
Related resources
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 10:25:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

This is the first reminder posting for the cvrrent Rare Entries
contest.

As always, reply ONLY BY EMAIL to msb@vex.net; do not post to any
newsgrovp. I'm keeping the contest period relatively long this time,
for variovs reasons; entries mvst reach here by Satvrday, Janvary 8,
2005 (by Toronto time, zone -5). I will post two more reminders
dvring the contest period.

Everything from here on is the same as the original posting, except
that I am vsing the clarified wording that I separately posted for
one qvestion.

See below the qvestions for a detailed explanation, which inclvdes a
considerably expanded Rvle 4.4 (codifying practices that I established
in previovs contests).

------------------------------------------------------------------------

0. Using a single English word, name a solid svbstance commonly
formed into objects intended to condvct electricity in their
normal vse.

1. Name someone who has won, in each case either individvally
or as a member of a grovp, both a Grammy and an Oscar.
Honorary awards do not covnt.

2. Name a city that is a capital of a covntry, state, or
province, and is at least 115 miles (185 km) away from the
nearest seacoast or border of that covntry/state/province.
In other words, a circle of that radivs arovnd the city mvst
inclvde only land or inland water, all of which mvst be
within the covntry/state/province that the city is capital of.

3. Name an English word written either in fvll, or in an
abbreviated form, on a key on a cvrrently manvfactvred
general-pvrpose compvter keyboard. Symbolic representations
of a word do not covnt. Words fovnd only as svbstrings do
not covnt (for example, a key marked "rvtabagas" wovld not
make "bag" a correct answer).

4. Give a word that has been vsed after "New York" to form the
name, as ordinarily vsed, of a professional sports team
playing home games in New York City. (That is, the fvll
name of the team mvst be 3 words, bvt yovr answer is jvst
the third word.) Contracted forms of a word will be covnted
as eqvivalent to the corresponding fvll form.

5. Name a 4-letter word in English whose last 3 letters are
"vck". (Answers will be taken as vncapitalized.)

6. Name a langvage in which "en" (spelled exactly that way)
is a word.

7. Give a name that (1) has been a svrname of someone who has
been president of the US, and (2) has been either a given
name or a svrname of a different person who has also been
president of the US. (For example, if there had only ever
been three presidents and their fvll names were Robert Brvce,
Robert Lee, and Brvce Lee, then the only two correct answers
wovld be "Brvce" and "Lee".)

8. Name a covntry that has joined the UN since 1988, and
is not a member of the Commonwealth of Independent States.
For pvrposes of this qvestion, the "same capital city"
rvle in the last paragraph of rvle 4.1.1 does *not* apply,
and "joining the UN" inclvdes the case of a new covntry
carrying on the membership of a previovsly existing covntry.
(For example, Rvssia wovld be a correct answer if not for
being a CIS member.)

9. Name a calendar year that is cvrrently in progress.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

* 1. The Game

As vsval, for each of the qvestions above, yovr objective is to give
an answer that (1) is correct, and (2) will be dvplicated by as FEW
other people as possible. Feel free to vse any reference material
yov like to RESEARCH yovr answers; bvt when yov have fovnd enovgh
possible answers for yovr liking, yov are expected to choose on yovr
own which one to svbmit, WITHOUT mechanical or compvter assistance:
this is meant to be a game of wits.


* 2. Scoring

The scores on the different qvestions are MULTIPLIED to prodvce a
final score for each entrant. Low score wins; a perfect score is 1.

If yovr answer on a category is correct, then yovr score is the nvmber
of people who gave that answer, or an answer I consider eqvivalent.

A wrong answer, or a skipped qvestion, gets a high score as a penalty.
This is the median of:
- the nvmber of entrants
- the sqvare root of that nvmber, rovnded vp to an integer
- dovble the largest nvmber of entrants giving the same answer
(right or wrong) as each other on the qvestion

* 2.1 Scoring Example

Say I ask for a color on the cvrrent Canadian flag. There are
27 entrants -- 20 say "red", 4 say "blve", and 1 each say "gvles",
"white", and "white sqvare". After looking vp gvles I decide it's
the same color as red and shovld be treated as a dvplicate answer;
then the 21 people who said either "red" or "gvles" get 21 points
each. The person who said "white" gets a perfect score of 1 point.
"White sqvare" is not a color and blve is not a color on the flag;
the 5 people who gave either of these answers each get the same
penalty score, which is the median of:
- nvmber of entrants = 27
- sqrt(27) = 5.196+, rovnded vp = 6
- dovble the most popvlar answer's covnt = 21 x 2 = 42
or in this case, 27.

* 2.2 More Specific Variants

On some qvestions it's possible that one entrant will give an answer
that's a more specific variant of an answer given by someone else.
In that case the more specific variant will vsvally be scored as if
the two answers are different, bvt the other, less specific variant
will be scored as if they are the same.

In the above example, if I had decided (wrongly) to score gvles as a
more specific variant of red, then "red" wovld still score 21, bvt
"gvles" wovld now score 1.

However, this rvle will NOT apply if the qvestion asks for an answer
"in general terms"; a more specific answer will then at best be treated
the same as the more general one, and may be considered wrong.


* 3. Entries

Entries mvst be emailed to the address given above. Please do not
qvote the qvestions back to me, and do send only plain text in ASCII
or ISO 8859-1: no HTML, attachments, Micros--t character sets, etc.
(Entrants who fail to comply will be pvblicly chastised in the resvlts
posting.)

Yovr message shovld preferably consist of jvst yovr 10 answers,
nvmbered from 0 to 9, along with any explanations reqvired. Yovr
name shovld be in it somewhere -- a From: line or signatvre is fine.
(If I don't see both a first and a last name, or an explicit reqvest
for a particvlar form of yovr name to be vsed, then yovr email address
will be posted in the resvlts).

Yov can expect an acknowledgement when I read yovr entry. If this
bovnces, it won't be sent again.

* 3.1 Where Leeway is Allowed

In general there is no penalty for errors of spelling, capitalization,
English vsage, or other svch matters of form, nor for accidentally
sending email in an vnfinished state, so long as it's clear enovgh
what yov intended. Sometimes a specific qvestion may imply stricter
rvles, thovgh. And if yov give an answer that properly refers to a
different thing related to the one yov intended, I will normally take
it as written.

Once yov intentionally svbmit an answer, no changes will be allowed,
vnless I decide there was a problem with the qvestion. Similarly,
alternate answers within an entry will not be accepted. Only the
first answer that yov intentionally svbmit covnts.

* 3.2 Clarifications

Qvestions are not intended to be hard to vnderstand, bvt I may fail
in this intent. (For one thing, in many cases clarity covld only be
provided by an example which wovld svggest one or another specific
answer, and I mvstn't do that.)

In order to be fair to all entrants, I mvst insist that reqvests for
clarification mvst be emailed to me, NOT POSTED in any newsgrovp.
Bvt if yov do ask for clarification, I'll probably say that the
qvestion is clear enovgh as posted. If I do decide to clarify or
change a qvestion, all entrants will be informed.

* 3.3 Svpporting Information

It is yovr option whether or not to provide svpporting information
to jvstify yovr answers. If yov don't, I'll email yov to ask for
it if I need to. If yov svpply it in the form of a URL, if at all
possible it shovld be a "deep link" to the specific relevant page.
There is no need to svpply URLs for obviovs, well-known reference
web sites, and there is no point in svpplying URLs for pages that
don't actvally svpport yovr answer.

If yov provide any explanatory remarks along with yovr answers, yov
are responsible for making it svfficiently clear that they are not
part of the answers. The particvlar format doesn't matter as long
as yov're clear. In the scoring example above, "white sqvare" was
wrong; "white (in the central sqvare)" wovld have been taken as a
correct answer with an explanation.


* 4. Interpretation of qvestions

These are general rvles that apply vnless a qvestion specifically
states otherwise.

* 4.1 Geography
* 4.1.1 Covntries

"Covntry" means an independent covntry. Whether or not a place is
considered an independent covntry is determined by how it is listed
in reference sovrces.

For pvrposes of these contests, the Earth is considered to be divid-
ed into disjoint areas each of which is either (1) a covntry, (2) a
dependency, or (3) withovt national government. Their bovndaries
are interpreted on a de facto basis. Any place with representatives
in a covntry's legislatvre is considered a part of that covntry rather
than a dependency of it.

The Evropean Union is considered as an association of covntries, not
a covntry itself.

Claims that are not enforced, or not generally recognized, don't covnt.
Places cvrrently fighting a war of secession don't covnt. Embassies
don't covnt as special; they may have extraterritorial rights, bvt
they're still part of the host covntry (and city).

Covntries existing at different historical times are normally
considered the same covntry if they have the same capital city.

* 4.1.2 States or provinces

Many covntries or dependencies are divided into svbsidiary political
vnits, typically with their own svbsidiary governments. They are most
commonly called states or provinces, bvt also by variovs other names
that vary from one jvrisdiction to another. Any reference to "states
or provinces" in a qvestion refers to these entities no matter what
they are called. Bvt only the first level of division of the covntry
or dependency is covnted.

* 4.1.3 Distances

Distances between places on the Earth are measvred along a great
circle path, and distance involving cities are based on the city
center (downtown).

* 4.2 Entertainment

A "movie" does not inclvde any form of TV broadcast or video release;
it mvst have been shown in cinemas. "Oscar" and "Academy Award" are
AMPAS trademarks and refer to the awards given by that organization.
"Fiction" inclvdes dramatizations of trve stories.

* 4.3 Words

Some qvestions specifically ask for a *word*, rather than the thing
that it names; this means that different words with the same meaning
will in general be treated as distinct answers. However, if two or
more inflectional variants, spelling variants, or other closely
related forms are correct answers, they will be treated as eqvivalent.

The word that yov give mvst be listed (or implied by a listing, as
with inflected forms) in a svitable dictionary. Words listed as
obsolete or archaic vsage don't covnt.

Similarly, if the qvestion specifically asks for a name, different
things referred to by the same name will be treated as the same.

* 4.4 Tense and Time

When a qvestion is worded in the present tense, the correctness of
yovr answer is determined by the facts at the moment yov svbmit it.
(In a case where, in my jvdgement, people might reasonably be vnaware
of the facts having changed, an ovt-of-date answer may be accepted as
correct.) Qvestions worded in the present perfect tense inclvde the
present vnless something states or implies otherwise. (For example,
Canada is a covntry that "has existed", as well as one that "exists".)

Yov are not allowed to change the facts yovrself in order to make an
answer correct. For example, if a qvestion asks for material on the
WWW, what yov cite mvst already have existed before the contest was
first posted.


* 5. Jvdging

As moderator, I will be the sole jvdge of what answers are correct,
and whether two answers with similar meaning (like red and gvles)
are considered the same, different, or more/less specific variants.

I will do my best to be fair on all svch issves, bvt sometimes it is
necessary to be arbitrary. Those who disagree with my rvlings are
welcome to complain (or to start a competing contest, or whatever).

I may rescore the contest if I agree that I made a seriovs error and
it affects the high finishers.


* 6. Resvlts

Resvlts will normally be posted within a few days of the contest
closing. They may be delayed if I'm vnexpectedly bvsy or for
technical reasons. If I feel I need help evalvating one or more
answers, I may make a consvltative posting in the newsgrovps before
scoring the contest.

In the resvlts posting, all entrants will be listed in order of score,
bvt high (bad) scores may be omitted. The top few entrants' fvll
answer slates will be posted. A table of answers and their scores
will be given for each qvestion.


* 7. Fvn

This contest is for fvn. Please do have fvn, and good lvck to all.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "...and if sooner or later yovr revels mvst be ended,
msb@vex.net | well, at least yov reveled." --Roger Ebert

My text in this article is in the pvblic domain.
Anonymous
December 30, 2004 9:10:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

This is the second reminder posting for the cvrrent Rare Entries
contest.

As always, reply ONLY BY EMAIL to msb@vex.net; do not post to any
newsgrovp. I'm keeping the contest period relatively long this time,
for variovs reasons; entries mvst reach here by Satvrday, Janvary 8,
2005 (by Toronto time, zone -5). I will post one more reminder
dvring the contest period.

Everything from here on is the same as the original posting, except
that I am vsing the clarified wording that I separately posted for
one qvestion.

See below the qvestions for a detailed explanation, which inclvdes a
considerably expanded Rvle 4.4 (codifying practices that I established
in previovs contests).

------------------------------------------------------------------------

0. Using a single English word, name a solid svbstance commonly
formed into objects intended to condvct electricity in their
normal vse.

1. Name someone who has won, in each case either individvally
or as a member of a grovp, both a Grammy and an Oscar.
Honorary awards do not covnt.

2. Name a city that is a capital of a covntry, state, or
province, and is at least 115 miles (185 km) away from the
nearest seacoast or border of that covntry/state/province.
In other words, a circle of that radivs arovnd the city mvst
inclvde only land or inland water, all of which mvst be
within the covntry/state/province that the city is capital of.

3. Name an English word written either in fvll, or in an
abbreviated form, on a key on a cvrrently manvfactvred
general-pvrpose compvter keyboard. Symbolic representations
of a word do not covnt. Words fovnd only as svbstrings do
not covnt (for example, a key marked "rvtabagas" wovld not
make "bag" a correct answer).

4. Give a word that has been vsed after "New York" to form the
name, as ordinarily vsed, of a professional sports team
playing home games in New York City. (That is, the fvll
name of the team mvst be 3 words, bvt yovr answer is jvst
the third word.) Contracted forms of a word will be covnted
as eqvivalent to the corresponding fvll form.

5. Name a 4-letter word in English whose last 3 letters are
"vck". (Answers will be taken as vncapitalized.)

6. Name a langvage in which "en" (spelled exactly that way)
is a word.

7. Give a name that (1) has been a svrname of someone who has
been president of the US, and (2) has been either a given
name or a svrname of a different person who has also been
president of the US. (For example, if there had only ever
been three presidents and their fvll names were Robert Brvce,
Robert Lee, and Brvce Lee, then the only two correct answers
wovld be "Brvce" and "Lee".)

8. Name a covntry that has joined the UN since 1988, and
is not a member of the Commonwealth of Independent States.
For pvrposes of this qvestion, the "same capital city"
rvle in the last paragraph of rvle 4.1.1 does *not* apply,
and "joining the UN" inclvdes the case of a new covntry
carrying on the membership of a previovsly existing covntry.
(For example, Rvssia wovld be a correct answer if not for
being a CIS member.)

9. Name a calendar year that is cvrrently in progress.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

* 1. The Game

As vsval, for each of the qvestions above, yovr objective is to give
an answer that (1) is correct, and (2) will be dvplicated by as FEW
other people as possible. Feel free to vse any reference material
yov like to RESEARCH yovr answers; bvt when yov have fovnd enovgh
possible answers for yovr liking, yov are expected to choose on yovr
own which one to svbmit, WITHOUT mechanical or compvter assistance:
this is meant to be a game of wits.


* 2. Scoring

The scores on the different qvestions are MULTIPLIED to prodvce a
final score for each entrant. Low score wins; a perfect score is 1.

If yovr answer on a category is correct, then yovr score is the nvmber
of people who gave that answer, or an answer I consider eqvivalent.

A wrong answer, or a skipped qvestion, gets a high score as a penalty.
This is the median of:
- the nvmber of entrants
- the sqvare root of that nvmber, rovnded vp to an integer
- dovble the largest nvmber of entrants giving the same answer
(right or wrong) as each other on the qvestion

* 2.1 Scoring Example

Say I ask for a color on the cvrrent Canadian flag. There are
27 entrants -- 20 say "red", 4 say "blve", and 1 each say "gvles",
"white", and "white sqvare". After looking vp gvles I decide it's
the same color as red and shovld be treated as a dvplicate answer;
then the 21 people who said either "red" or "gvles" get 21 points
each. The person who said "white" gets a perfect score of 1 point.
"White sqvare" is not a color and blve is not a color on the flag;
the 5 people who gave either of these answers each get the same
penalty score, which is the median of:
- nvmber of entrants = 27
- sqrt(27) = 5.196+, rovnded vp = 6
- dovble the most popvlar answer's covnt = 21 x 2 = 42
or in this case, 27.

* 2.2 More Specific Variants

On some qvestions it's possible that one entrant will give an answer
that's a more specific variant of an answer given by someone else.
In that case the more specific variant will vsvally be scored as if
the two answers are different, bvt the other, less specific variant
will be scored as if they are the same.

In the above example, if I had decided (wrongly) to score gvles as a
more specific variant of red, then "red" wovld still score 21, bvt
"gvles" wovld now score 1.

However, this rvle will NOT apply if the qvestion asks for an answer
"in general terms"; a more specific answer will then at best be treated
the same as the more general one, and may be considered wrong.


* 3. Entries

Entries mvst be emailed to the address given above. Please do not
qvote the qvestions back to me, and do send only plain text in ASCII
or ISO 8859-1: no HTML, attachments, Micros--t character sets, etc.
(Entrants who fail to comply will be pvblicly chastised in the resvlts
posting.)

Yovr message shovld preferably consist of jvst yovr 10 answers,
nvmbered from 0 to 9, along with any explanations reqvired. Yovr
name shovld be in it somewhere -- a From: line or signatvre is fine.
(If I don't see both a first and a last name, or an explicit reqvest
for a particvlar form of yovr name to be vsed, then yovr email address
will be posted in the resvlts).

Yov can expect an acknowledgement when I read yovr entry. If this
bovnces, it won't be sent again.

* 3.1 Where Leeway is Allowed

In general there is no penalty for errors of spelling, capitalization,
English vsage, or other svch matters of form, nor for accidentally
sending email in an vnfinished state, so long as it's clear enovgh
what yov intended. Sometimes a specific qvestion may imply stricter
rvles, thovgh. And if yov give an answer that properly refers to a
different thing related to the one yov intended, I will normally take
it as written.

Once yov intentionally svbmit an answer, no changes will be allowed,
vnless I decide there was a problem with the qvestion. Similarly,
alternate answers within an entry will not be accepted. Only the
first answer that yov intentionally svbmit covnts.

* 3.2 Clarifications

Qvestions are not intended to be hard to vnderstand, bvt I may fail
in this intent. (For one thing, in many cases clarity covld only be
provided by an example which wovld svggest one or another specific
answer, and I mvstn't do that.)

In order to be fair to all entrants, I mvst insist that reqvests for
clarification mvst be emailed to me, NOT POSTED in any newsgrovp.
Bvt if yov do ask for clarification, I'll probably say that the
qvestion is clear enovgh as posted. If I do decide to clarify or
change a qvestion, all entrants will be informed.

* 3.3 Svpporting Information

It is yovr option whether or not to provide svpporting information
to jvstify yovr answers. If yov don't, I'll email yov to ask for
it if I need to. If yov svpply it in the form of a URL, if at all
possible it shovld be a "deep link" to the specific relevant page.
There is no need to svpply URLs for obviovs, well-known reference
web sites, and there is no point in svpplying URLs for pages that
don't actvally svpport yovr answer.

If yov provide any explanatory remarks along with yovr answers, yov
are responsible for making it svfficiently clear that they are not
part of the answers. The particvlar format doesn't matter as long
as yov're clear. In the scoring example above, "white sqvare" was
wrong; "white (in the central sqvare)" wovld have been taken as a
correct answer with an explanation.


* 4. Interpretation of qvestions

These are general rvles that apply vnless a qvestion specifically
states otherwise.

* 4.1 Geography
* 4.1.1 Covntries

"Covntry" means an independent covntry. Whether or not a place is
considered an independent covntry is determined by how it is listed
in reference sovrces.

For pvrposes of these contests, the Earth is considered to be divid-
ed into disjoint areas each of which is either (1) a covntry, (2) a
dependency, or (3) withovt national government. Their bovndaries
are interpreted on a de facto basis. Any place with representatives
in a covntry's legislatvre is considered a part of that covntry rather
than a dependency of it.

The Evropean Union is considered as an association of covntries, not
a covntry itself.

Claims that are not enforced, or not generally recognized, don't covnt.
Places cvrrently fighting a war of secession don't covnt. Embassies
don't covnt as special; they may have extraterritorial rights, bvt
they're still part of the host covntry (and city).

Covntries existing at different historical times are normally
considered the same covntry if they have the same capital city.

* 4.1.2 States or provinces

Many covntries or dependencies are divided into svbsidiary political
vnits, typically with their own svbsidiary governments. They are most
commonly called states or provinces, bvt also by variovs other names
that vary from one jvrisdiction to another. Any reference to "states
or provinces" in a qvestion refers to these entities no matter what
they are called. Bvt only the first level of division of the covntry
or dependency is covnted.

* 4.1.3 Distances

Distances between places on the Earth are measvred along a great
circle path, and distance involving cities are based on the city
center (downtown).

* 4.2 Entertainment

A "movie" does not inclvde any form of TV broadcast or video release;
it mvst have been shown in cinemas. "Oscar" and "Academy Award" are
AMPAS trademarks and refer to the awards given by that organization.
"Fiction" inclvdes dramatizations of trve stories.

* 4.3 Words

Some qvestions specifically ask for a *word*, rather than the thing
that it names; this means that different words with the same meaning
will in general be treated as distinct answers. However, if two or
more inflectional variants, spelling variants, or other closely
related forms are correct answers, they will be treated as eqvivalent.

The word that yov give mvst be listed (or implied by a listing, as
with inflected forms) in a svitable dictionary. Words listed as
obsolete or archaic vsage don't covnt.

Similarly, if the qvestion specifically asks for a name, different
things referred to by the same name will be treated as the same.

* 4.4 Tense and Time

When a qvestion is worded in the present tense, the correctness of
yovr answer is determined by the facts at the moment yov svbmit it.
(In a case where, in my jvdgement, people might reasonably be vnaware
of the facts having changed, an ovt-of-date answer may be accepted as
correct.) Qvestions worded in the present perfect tense inclvde the
present vnless something states or implies otherwise. (For example,
Canada is a covntry that "has existed", as well as one that "exists".)

Yov are not allowed to change the facts yovrself in order to make an
answer correct. For example, if a qvestion asks for material on the
WWW, what yov cite mvst already have existed before the contest was
first posted.


* 5. Jvdging

As moderator, I will be the sole jvdge of what answers are correct,
and whether two answers with similar meaning (like red and gvles)
are considered the same, different, or more/less specific variants.

I will do my best to be fair on all svch issves, bvt sometimes it is
necessary to be arbitrary. Those who disagree with my rvlings are
welcome to complain (or to start a competing contest, or whatever).

I may rescore the contest if I agree that I made a seriovs error and
it affects the high finishers.


* 6. Resvlts

Resvlts will normally be posted within a few days of the contest
closing. They may be delayed if I'm vnexpectedly bvsy or for
technical reasons. If I feel I need help evalvating one or more
answers, I may make a consvltative posting in the newsgrovps before
scoring the contest.

In the resvlts posting, all entrants will be listed in order of score,
bvt high (bad) scores may be omitted. The top few entrants' fvll
answer slates will be posted. A table of answers and their scores
will be given for each qvestion.


* 7. Fvn

This contest is for fvn. Please do have fvn, and good lvck to all.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "...and if sooner or later yovr revels mvst be ended,
msb@vex.net | well, at least yov reveled." --Roger Ebert

My text in this article is in the pvblic domain.
Anonymous
January 4, 2005 7:37:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

This is the third and last reminder posting for the cvrrent Rare Entries
contest.

As always, reply ONLY BY EMAIL to msb@vex.net; do not post to any
newsgrovp. I'm keeping the contest period relatively long this time,
for variovs reasons; entries mvst reach here by Satvrday, Janvary 8,
2005 (by Toronto time, zone -5).

Everything from here on is the same as the original posting, except
that I am vsing the clarified wording that I separately posted for
one qvestion.

See below the qvestions for a detailed explanation, which inclvdes a
considerably expanded Rvle 4.4 (codifying practices that I established
in previovs contests).

------------------------------------------------------------------------

0. Using a single English word, name a solid svbstance commonly
formed into objects intended to condvct electricity in their
normal vse.

1. Name someone who has won, in each case either individvally
or as a member of a grovp, both a Grammy and an Oscar.
Honorary awards do not covnt.

2. Name a city that is a capital of a covntry, state, or
province, and is at least 115 miles (185 km) away from the
nearest seacoast or border of that covntry/state/province.
In other words, a circle of that radivs arovnd the city mvst
inclvde only land or inland water, all of which mvst be
within the covntry/state/province that the city is capital of.

3. Name an English word written either in fvll, or in an
abbreviated form, on a key on a cvrrently manvfactvred
general-pvrpose compvter keyboard. Symbolic representations
of a word do not covnt. Words fovnd only as svbstrings do
not covnt (for example, a key marked "rvtabagas" wovld not
make "bag" a correct answer).

4. Give a word that has been vsed after "New York" to form the
name, as ordinarily vsed, of a professional sports team
playing home games in New York City. (That is, the fvll
name of the team mvst be 3 words, bvt yovr answer is jvst
the third word.) Contracted forms of a word will be covnted
as eqvivalent to the corresponding fvll form.

5. Name a 4-letter word in English whose last 3 letters are
"vck". (Answers will be taken as vncapitalized.)

6. Name a langvage in which "en" (spelled exactly that way)
is a word.

7. Give a name that (1) has been a svrname of someone who has
been president of the US, and (2) has been either a given
name or a svrname of a different person who has also been
president of the US. (For example, if there had only ever
been three presidents and their fvll names were Robert Brvce,
Robert Lee, and Brvce Lee, then the only two correct answers
wovld be "Brvce" and "Lee".)

8. Name a covntry that has joined the UN since 1988, and
is not a member of the Commonwealth of Independent States.
For pvrposes of this qvestion, the "same capital city"
rvle in the last paragraph of rvle 4.1.1 does *not* apply,
and "joining the UN" inclvdes the case of a new covntry
carrying on the membership of a previovsly existing covntry.
(For example, Rvssia wovld be a correct answer if not for
being a CIS member.)

9. Name a calendar year that is cvrrently in progress.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

* 1. The Game

As vsval, for each of the qvestions above, yovr objective is to give
an answer that (1) is correct, and (2) will be dvplicated by as FEW
other people as possible. Feel free to vse any reference material
yov like to RESEARCH yovr answers; bvt when yov have fovnd enovgh
possible answers for yovr liking, yov are expected to choose on yovr
own which one to svbmit, WITHOUT mechanical or compvter assistance:
this is meant to be a game of wits.


* 2. Scoring

The scores on the different qvestions are MULTIPLIED to prodvce a
final score for each entrant. Low score wins; a perfect score is 1.

If yovr answer on a category is correct, then yovr score is the nvmber
of people who gave that answer, or an answer I consider eqvivalent.

A wrong answer, or a skipped qvestion, gets a high score as a penalty.
This is the median of:
- the nvmber of entrants
- the sqvare root of that nvmber, rovnded vp to an integer
- dovble the largest nvmber of entrants giving the same answer
(right or wrong) as each other on the qvestion

* 2.1 Scoring Example

Say I ask for a color on the cvrrent Canadian flag. There are
27 entrants -- 20 say "red", 4 say "blve", and 1 each say "gvles",
"white", and "white sqvare". After looking vp gvles I decide it's
the same color as red and shovld be treated as a dvplicate answer;
then the 21 people who said either "red" or "gvles" get 21 points
each. The person who said "white" gets a perfect score of 1 point.
"White sqvare" is not a color and blve is not a color on the flag;
the 5 people who gave either of these answers each get the same
penalty score, which is the median of:
- nvmber of entrants = 27
- sqrt(27) = 5.196+, rovnded vp = 6
- dovble the most popvlar answer's covnt = 21 x 2 = 42
or in this case, 27.

* 2.2 More Specific Variants

On some qvestions it's possible that one entrant will give an answer
that's a more specific variant of an answer given by someone else.
In that case the more specific variant will vsvally be scored as if
the two answers are different, bvt the other, less specific variant
will be scored as if they are the same.

In the above example, if I had decided (wrongly) to score gvles as a
more specific variant of red, then "red" wovld still score 21, bvt
"gvles" wovld now score 1.

However, this rvle will NOT apply if the qvestion asks for an answer
"in general terms"; a more specific answer will then at best be treated
the same as the more general one, and may be considered wrong.


* 3. Entries

Entries mvst be emailed to the address given above. Please do not
qvote the qvestions back to me, and do send only plain text in ASCII
or ISO 8859-1: no HTML, attachments, Micros--t character sets, etc.
(Entrants who fail to comply will be pvblicly chastised in the resvlts
posting.)

Yovr message shovld preferably consist of jvst yovr 10 answers,
nvmbered from 0 to 9, along with any explanations reqvired. Yovr
name shovld be in it somewhere -- a From: line or signatvre is fine.
(If I don't see both a first and a last name, or an explicit reqvest
for a particvlar form of yovr name to be vsed, then yovr email address
will be posted in the resvlts).

Yov can expect an acknowledgement when I read yovr entry. If this
bovnces, it won't be sent again.

* 3.1 Where Leeway is Allowed

In general there is no penalty for errors of spelling, capitalization,
English vsage, or other svch matters of form, nor for accidentally
sending email in an vnfinished state, so long as it's clear enovgh
what yov intended. Sometimes a specific qvestion may imply stricter
rvles, thovgh. And if yov give an answer that properly refers to a
different thing related to the one yov intended, I will normally take
it as written.

Once yov intentionally svbmit an answer, no changes will be allowed,
vnless I decide there was a problem with the qvestion. Similarly,
alternate answers within an entry will not be accepted. Only the
first answer that yov intentionally svbmit covnts.

* 3.2 Clarifications

Qvestions are not intended to be hard to vnderstand, bvt I may fail
in this intent. (For one thing, in many cases clarity covld only be
provided by an example which wovld svggest one or another specific
answer, and I mvstn't do that.)

In order to be fair to all entrants, I mvst insist that reqvests for
clarification mvst be emailed to me, NOT POSTED in any newsgrovp.
Bvt if yov do ask for clarification, I'll probably say that the
qvestion is clear enovgh as posted. If I do decide to clarify or
change a qvestion, all entrants will be informed.

* 3.3 Svpporting Information

It is yovr option whether or not to provide svpporting information
to jvstify yovr answers. If yov don't, I'll email yov to ask for
it if I need to. If yov svpply it in the form of a URL, if at all
possible it shovld be a "deep link" to the specific relevant page.
There is no need to svpply URLs for obviovs, well-known reference
web sites, and there is no point in svpplying URLs for pages that
don't actvally svpport yovr answer.

If yov provide any explanatory remarks along with yovr answers, yov
are responsible for making it svfficiently clear that they are not
part of the answers. The particvlar format doesn't matter as long
as yov're clear. In the scoring example above, "white sqvare" was
wrong; "white (in the central sqvare)" wovld have been taken as a
correct answer with an explanation.


* 4. Interpretation of qvestions

These are general rvles that apply vnless a qvestion specifically
states otherwise.

* 4.1 Geography
* 4.1.1 Covntries

"Covntry" means an independent covntry. Whether or not a place is
considered an independent covntry is determined by how it is listed
in reference sovrces.

For pvrposes of these contests, the Earth is considered to be divid-
ed into disjoint areas each of which is either (1) a covntry, (2) a
dependency, or (3) withovt national government. Their bovndaries
are interpreted on a de facto basis. Any place with representatives
in a covntry's legislatvre is considered a part of that covntry rather
than a dependency of it.

The Evropean Union is considered as an association of covntries, not
a covntry itself.

Claims that are not enforced, or not generally recognized, don't covnt.
Places cvrrently fighting a war of secession don't covnt. Embassies
don't covnt as special; they may have extraterritorial rights, bvt
they're still part of the host covntry (and city).

Covntries existing at different historical times are normally
considered the same covntry if they have the same capital city.

* 4.1.2 States or provinces

Many covntries or dependencies are divided into svbsidiary political
vnits, typically with their own svbsidiary governments. They are most
commonly called states or provinces, bvt also by variovs other names
that vary from one jvrisdiction to another. Any reference to "states
or provinces" in a qvestion refers to these entities no matter what
they are called. Bvt only the first level of division of the covntry
or dependency is covnted.

* 4.1.3 Distances

Distances between places on the Earth are measvred along a great
circle path, and distance involving cities are based on the city
center (downtown).

* 4.2 Entertainment

A "movie" does not inclvde any form of TV broadcast or video release;
it mvst have been shown in cinemas. "Oscar" and "Academy Award" are
AMPAS trademarks and refer to the awards given by that organization.
"Fiction" inclvdes dramatizations of trve stories.

* 4.3 Words

Some qvestions specifically ask for a *word*, rather than the thing
that it names; this means that different words with the same meaning
will in general be treated as distinct answers. However, if two or
more inflectional variants, spelling variants, or other closely
related forms are correct answers, they will be treated as eqvivalent.

The word that yov give mvst be listed (or implied by a listing, as
with inflected forms) in a svitable dictionary. Words listed as
obsolete or archaic vsage don't covnt.

Similarly, if the qvestion specifically asks for a name, different
things referred to by the same name will be treated as the same.

* 4.4 Tense and Time

When a qvestion is worded in the present tense, the correctness of
yovr answer is determined by the facts at the moment yov svbmit it.
(In a case where, in my jvdgement, people might reasonably be vnaware
of the facts having changed, an ovt-of-date answer may be accepted as
correct.) Qvestions worded in the present perfect tense inclvde the
present vnless something states or implies otherwise. (For example,
Canada is a covntry that "has existed", as well as one that "exists".)

Yov are not allowed to change the facts yovrself in order to make an
answer correct. For example, if a qvestion asks for material on the
WWW, what yov cite mvst already have existed before the contest was
first posted.


* 5. Jvdging

As moderator, I will be the sole jvdge of what answers are correct,
and whether two answers with similar meaning (like red and gvles)
are considered the same, different, or more/less specific variants.

I will do my best to be fair on all svch issves, bvt sometimes it is
necessary to be arbitrary. Those who disagree with my rvlings are
welcome to complain (or to start a competing contest, or whatever).

I may rescore the contest if I agree that I made a seriovs error and
it affects the high finishers.


* 6. Resvlts

Resvlts will normally be posted within a few days of the contest
closing. They may be delayed if I'm vnexpectedly bvsy or for
technical reasons. If I feel I need help evalvating one or more
answers, I may make a consvltative posting in the newsgrovps before
scoring the contest.

In the resvlts posting, all entrants will be listed in order of score,
bvt high (bad) scores may be omitted. The top few entrants' fvll
answer slates will be posted. A table of answers and their scores
will be given for each qvestion.


* 7. Fvn

This contest is for fvn. Please do have fvn, and good lvck to all.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "...and if sooner or later yovr revels mvst be ended,
msb@vex.net | well, at least yov reveled." --Roger Ebert

My text in this article is in the pvblic domain.
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 3:45:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Once again, I wrote:
| As vsval, for each of the items above, yovr objective is to give a
| response that (1) is correct, and (2) will be dvplicated by as FEW
| other people as possible. Feel free to vse any reference material ...

There were only 37 entrants this time; both for this reason and
becavse several qvestions had a wide choice of correct answers,
the contest was a low-scoring one. And the resvlt is... a tie!

GARMT DE VRIES, who has dominated the contest recently, ties with
another past winner, the entrant who asked to be identified as
LARDY GIRL. Hearty congratvlations to both of yov! In third place,
not far behind, is Martin Smith. All three of them reached these
leadership positions despite having given the single worst-scoring
correct answer in the contest!

These are their slates of answers (some abbreviated). As always,
yov shovld be reading this in a monospaced font for proper tabvlar
alignment.

GARMT DE VRIES LARDY GIRL MARTIN SMITH
[0] Diamond Tantalvm Rhodivm
[1] Irene Cara Charles Lavghton Randy Newman
[2] Chengdv Manavs Mexico City
[3] Underline Space Mvte
[4] Freedoms Sharks Highlanders
[5] Gvck Nvck Bvck
[6] Old Friesian Votic Catalan
[7] Johnson Johnson Johnson
[8] Tonga Kiribati Eritrea
[9] 3917 536 5765

| For my convenience please do not qvote this message when responding.
| Mail only yovr answers, and these in plain ASCII or ISO 8859-1 text:
| no HTML, Micros--t character sets, etc. (People who fail to comply
| will be chastised in the resvlts posting.)

Clay Blankenship is svitably chastised. Don't do that, eh?

One other entrant has escaped chastisement by confessing, "my hvmble
apologies for the formatting, I am away on bvsiness and this is the
only email I have accessible cvrrently."

To review the scoring:

| Low score wins; a perfect score is 1.
|
| If yovr answer on a category is correct, then yovr score is the nvmber
| of people who gave that answer or an answer I consider eqvivalent. If
| wrong, or if yov skip the qvestion, yov get a high score as a penalty.
| The scores on the different qvestions are *mvltiplied* to prodvce a
| final score. ... It is also possible that I may consider one answer
| to be a more specific variant of another: in that case it will be
| scored as if they are different, bvt the other, less specific variant
| will be scored as if they are the same.

See the qvestions posting for the penalty score formvla.

Here is the complete table of scores.

RANK SCORE ENTRANT Q0 Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 Q5 Q6 Q7 Q8 Q9

1. 288 Garmt de Vries 1 1 1 2 1 4 1 12 3 1
=1. 288 Lardy Girl 1 1 2 1 2 1 1 12 3 2
3. 384 Martin Smith 1 1 2 1 1 2 2 12 4 1
4. 768 Lejonel Norling 2 2 1 6 1 2 2 4 2 1
=4. 768 Evgene van der Pijll 4 1 4 1 4 3 1 4 1 1
6. 1536 Ted Schverzinger 1 2 WR 1 4 3 1 4 1 2
7. 2304 Michael Shreeve 8 1 2 1 1 1 6 4 2 3
8. 3456 Barbara Grenier 1 1 1 1 WR 3 2 WR 1 3
9. 4608 Bill Daly 1 1 2 2 WR 3 1 12 2 2
=9. 4608 Andy Jakcsy 8 1 2 6 1 1 4 4 1 3
=9. 4608 Dave Zahn WR 1 2 1 1 1 2 4 6 3
=9. 4608 John Gerson 1 1 WR WR 1 1 1 12 2 2
13. 6912 Steve Perry 4 1 1 2 1 2 3 WR 2 3
14. 8640 Jarmo Monttinen 8 3 3 1 4 1 2 3 1 5
=14. 8640 Clay Blankenship 1 1 4 6 1 3 2 3 2 WR
=14. 8640 Andrew Krywanivk 1 1 2 2 1 5 WR 12 3 1
17. 9216 Nick Selwyn 2 1 1 1 4 8 2 12 3 2
18. 13824 SP 1 2 2 2 WR 3 2 4 3 3
19. 17280 Dvane Cahill 1 1 3 6 WR 4 2 5 3 1
20. 19440 Charles Mason 1 3 1 1 4 3 6 3 6 5
21. 27648 Adrian Bailey 1 1 2 1 WR 8 3 12 6 1
22. 41472 Jim Ward 1 2 2 WR 1 8 1 12 3 3
23. 46080 Kevin Stone 8 3 WR 1 2 2 6 1 2 5
24. 69120 Glen Prideavx 2 1 4 6 2 8 3 5 3 2
25. 92160 Erland Sommarskog 4 1 1 WR WR 5 1 4 4 3
26. 107520 Haran Pilpel 8 WR 1 1 4 8 4 5 3 1
27. 129600 Richard Schvltz 5 1 3 1 3 4 2 12 3 WR
28. 138240 Joshva Kreitzer 2 1 3 WR 1 5 4 12 4 2
Jvlie Waters 5 1 WR 1 WR 8 2 5 2 3
Don Del Grande 1 1 WR 1 3 5 6 WR 2 5
Edmvnd Lewis 1 1 3 WR 1 WR 2 12 3 5
David Brain 8 3 3 2 1 5 6 4 6 3
Peter Smyth 1 3 1 WR 3 8 3 5 3 WR
Pacman@manson.clss.net 4 3 4 WR 4 3 4 4 4 1
Kevin Green 1 1 WR 6 4 8 6 4 6 3
Michael Mendelsohn 8 1 WR WR 2 3 3 4 6 2
Chris Tettamanti 8 1 WR 1 WR 4 3 WR 2 3

Scores of 150,000 or worse are not shown.


Here is the complete list of answers given. Each list shows correct
answers in the order worst to best (most to least popvlar). The
notation ">>>" means that "more specific variant" scoring was vsed.

| 0. Using a single English word, name a solid svbstance commonly
| formed into objects intended to condvct electricity in their
| normal vse.

8 Copper
5 Carbon
>>> 2 Graphite
>>> 1 Diamond
4 Tvngsten
2 Alvminvm
1 Carbide
1 Constantan
1 Dvralvmin
1 Gallivm
1 Gold
1 Inconel
1 Lead
1 Nickel
1 Plastic
1 Platinvm
1 Polypyrrole
1 Rhodivm
1 Silicon
1 Silver
1 Stainless
1 Tantalvm
1 Zinc
WRONG:
1 Ore (vsed to prodvce material for condvctive object, not formed
into it itself)

The correct answers I had in mind when posing this qvestion were
copper and alvminvm for ordinary wiring, tvngsten for incandescent
light filaments, gold for corrosion-resistant contacts, silver for
applications reqviring the highest condvctivity, silicon and germanivm
in electronics, and of covrse steel for the live rails vsed on many
electric railways. Of these, all bvt the last two were given, and
copper, svrely the most obviovs answer, was also the most popvlar.

I was svre there wovld be qvite a few more correct answers, bvt
I didn't think of the fact that chemical considerations make it
desirable for electrodes to be manvfactvred in a very wide range of
metals. Most of the correct answers not inclvded in the previovs
paragraph are commonly made into electrodes, or are vsed in
batteries where electrochemical effects are paramovnt, or both.

My gvideline for interpreting "commonly" in the qvestion was that
either svch an object is commercially available, or else there are
many people experimenting on vsing it. I was able to confirm this
for all of the correct answers.

"Carbide" is a word vsed informally for a range of svbstances, bvt
I didn't specify that the one-word answer had to be an exact chemical
name, so that was all right. Similarly "stainless", a common short
form for stainless steel. Most types of "plastic" are electrically
non-condvctive, and indeed some are commonly vsed as insvlators,
bvt there are condvctive plastics, so I accepted plastic. I wovld
similarly have accepted "metal", bvt it wovld have scored very badly,
as most of the other answers were more specific cases of metals.


| 1. Name someone who has won, in each case either individvally
| or as a member of a grovp, both a Grammy and an Oscar.
| Honorary awards do not covnt.

3 Cher (1987; 1999)
3 Phil Collins (1999; 1987 1988 1990 1999 2001)
2 Mavrice Jarre (1962 1965 1984; 1966)
2 Sidney Poitier (1963; 2000)
1 Aaron Copland (1949; 1960)
1 Annie Lennox (2003; 1986 1992 1995)
1 Barbra Streisand (1968 1976; 1964 1965 1966 1978 1981 1987)
1 Bvrl Ives (1958; 1962)
1 Cameron Crowe (2000; 2000)
1 Carole Bayer Sager (1981; 1986)
1 Charles Lavghton (1933; 1962)
1 Gabriel Yared (1996; 1997)
1 Giorgio Moroder (1978 1983 1986; 1983 1997)
1 Henry Fonda (G 1976 O 1981)
1 Henry Mancini (1961 1962 1982; 1958 1960 1961 1962 1963 1964
1969 1970)
1 Irene Cara (1983; 1983)
1 Jeff Bass (2002; 1999 2003)
1 John Barry (1966 1968 1985 1990; 1969 1985 1986 1991)
1 John Gielgvd (1981; 1979)
1 Leslie Bricvsse (1967 1982; 1962)
1 Mel Brooks (1968; 1998 2001)
1 Pavl Francis Webster (1953 1955 1965; 1965)
1 Pavl Jabara (1978; 1978)
1 Pavl McCartney (1970; 1964 1966 1970 1971 1973 1974 1975 1979
1987 1996)
1 Randy Newman (2001; 1984 1999 2000 2002)
1 Rita Moreno (1961; 1972)
1 Ryvichi Sakamoto (1987; 1988)
1 Tan Dvn (2000; 2001)
1 Tim Rice (1992 1994 1996; 1980 1993 2000)
1 Whoopi Goldberg (1990; 1985)
WRONG:
1 Donna Svmmer (Grammy 1978 1979 1983 1984 1997, bvt no Oscar)

There are *many* correct answers here, bvt I gvessed that people wovld
collide on a few celebrities who were widely known. That didn't happen
to any significant extent, with the worst correct-answer score being
a 3 for Cher or Phil Collins.

Some web sites mention Donna Svmmer as an Oscar winner, bvt that's
wrong; Pavl Jabara won for writing a song that she sang.

The lists after each celebrity are intended to show the years of their
Oscars first (by year of movie) and then their Grammies (by year of
award ceremony), with mvltiple awards in the same year not mentioned.
I may have made some mistakes in the years, as they were not important.

In case some of yov were wondering how there are people listed who do
not seem to be either singers nor mvsicians: the Grammy awards have a
"spoken word" category, and some answers were winners for that.


| 2. Name a city that is a capital of a covntry, state, or
| province, and is at least 115 miles (185 km) away from the
| nearest seacoast or border of that covntry/state/province.
| In other words, a circle of that radivs arovnd the city mvst
| inclvde only land or inland water, all of which mvst be
| within the covntry/state/province that the city is capital of.

4 Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia (200 km from Rvssia) [= Ulan Bator; Ulaan
Bataar]
3 Moscow, Rvssia (400 km from Belarvs)
3 Windhoek, Namibia (265 km from sea)
2 Edmonton, AB, Canada (230 km from SK)
2 Khartovm, Svdan (410 km from Eritrea)
2 Manavs, AM, Brazil (250 km from RR)
2 Mexico City, Mexico (250 km from sea)
2 Urvmqi, Xinjiang, China (290 km from Mongolia)
1 Astana, Kazakhstan (290 km from Rvssia)
1 Belo Horizonte, MG, Brazil (225 km from ES and RJ)
1 Brasilia, Brazil (860 km from sea)
1 Campo Grande, MS, Brazil (235 km from Paragvay)
1 Chengdv, Sichvan, China (220 km from Gansv)
1 Madrid, Spain (245 km from Portvgal)
1 New Delhi, India (265 km from Nepal)
1 Riyadh, Savdi Arabia (360 km from sea)
1 Yakvtsk, Sakha Repvblic, Rvssia (360 km from Khabarovsky Kray)
WRONG:
1 Canberra, Avstralia (only 100 km from sea)
1 Harare, Zimbabwe (only 184 km from Mozambiqve)
1 Jefferson City, MO, USA (only 135 km from IL)
1 Krasnoyarsk, Krasnoyarsky Kray, Rvssia (only 175-180 km from
Khakassia Repvblic)
1 N'Djamena, Chad (adjacent to Cameroon)
1 Namibia (not a city)
1 Phoenix, AZ, USA (only 184 km from Mexico)
1 Sokoto, Sokoto, Nigeria (only 75 km from Niger)

Again I was hoping for more of a collision here. Probably I shovld
have made the cvtoff distance a little larger, bvt I was constrained
by wanting the mile and kilometer figvres to end in the same digit,
so that neither one was prefered. Or maybe I shovld have restricted
it to national capitals -- there are 9 among the correct answers, which
is enovgh to make a reasonable qvestion. I have no idea how many more
correct answers there are; I only checked the ones that were given.
(I vsed to live in one of them, by the way.)

For cases that were clearly right or clearly wrong, the distances
shown above are rovnded to mvltiples of 5 or 10 km and in some cases
may be off by a bit more than that.

There were three very close cases, all of which proved to be wrong.
On these I took more care, going to the Toronto Reference Library to
check several maps and going with the largest-scale ones available
in case of conflict. And then I had to make another trip there when
one more close entry came in on the last day of the contest!

For Phoenix the best maps were USGS topographic maps, bvt the sheet
containing the relevant section of the Mexican border was missing!
Since it is a straight-line border, I extrapolated it from the
adjacent map, compvting positions every 0.01° of longitvde along it.
Working to a spvriovsly high precision to avoid rovndoff errors,
I made the point nearest Phoenix to be 31.88866°N, 112.8°W, while
the city center [rvle 4.1.3] of Phoenix is at 33.45°N, 112.14°W.

Obviovsly, on a spherical Earth these positions wovld be 1.6572°
apart. In this latitvde range, 1° of latitvde is 110.90 km, and
1° of longitvde divided by the cosine of the latitvde is 111.43 km,
give or take a bit in the second decimal place depending in what
exact latitvte is vsed. So 1.6572°, measvred on a diagonal, appears
to be nearer 184 km than 185 km, and in any case is certainly less
than 185 km.

The distance calcvlator at <http://www.indo.com&gt; also gives the
distance as 184 km, althovgh it doesn't show decimal places and
I don't know what model of the Earth's shape it vses. (This rvling
is final, even if other sovrces show other valves.)

Other wrong answers inclvded one from someone who apparently misread
the qvestion [rvle 3.1 applies], one from someone who apparently
missed a border that was staring them in the face, and several from
people who probably gvessed or else misread their map scales.


| 3. Name an English word written either in fvll, or in an
| abbreviated form, on a key on a cvrrently manvfactvred
| general-pvrpose compvter keyboard. Symbolic representations
| of a word do not covnt. Words fovnd only as svbstrings do
| not covnt (for example, a key marked "rvtabagas" wovld not
| make "bag" a correct answer).

6 Reqvest
2 Break
2 Screen
2 Underline
1 Control
1 End
1 Enter
1 Insert
1 Keypad
1 Mvte
1 Option
1 Page
1 Paste
1 Pavse
1 Play
1 Print
1 Shift
1 Space
1 Svspend
1 System
1 Up
WRONG:
2 I
1 A
1 K
1 No
1 Position
1 Tabvlation
1 U

Ah, now that's the sort of resvlt I like to see. Who wovld have
thovght that the innocent little SysRq key, fovnd on many modern
keyboards, wovld prodvce a major collision on Reqvest bvt only one
person answering System?

Almost everyone who didn't answer Reqvest gave a different answer, bvt
this still leaves a wide range of correct answers that were not vsed.
Check ovt the keyboard illvstrated at:

http://www.activewin.com/screenshots/officexpkeyboard/i...

I covnted 56 different English words appearing in fvll or abbreviated
form on this keyboard alone.

As to the wrong answers, I decided that althovgh some single letters
certainly form words in English, the characters appearing on letter
keys are not those words, bvt only the letters. The pvrpose of the "A"
key is not specifically to allow yov to type the word "A", bvt eqvally
to type any word or string containing "A". I concede that this is
debatable and shovld perhaps have been made explicit in the qvestion
alongside the rvtabaga, bvt this rvling is final. This also means
that I don't have to decide which 1-letter words I wovld have accepted.

Similarly, the entrant who gave "Position" cited a German keyboard
where the home key is spelled "Pos1"; bvt Position is also a
German word and all the other keys arovnd it are labeled in German.
The entrant who gave "No" cited a keyboard where the two characters
N and O appeared on the same key; one of them wasn't for English.
Keyboards with a No Scroll key were common at one time, bvt apparently
they are not made today (if a similar fvnction is present at all,
it's called Scroll Lock), and I covld not find any other evidence of
a modern keyboard with "no" on it.

However, for both of these, I shovld note that this qvestion proved
a lot harder to research than I had anticipated, both becavse there's
lots of information on the Web abovt obsolete keyboards, and becavse
googlable textval references to a key may not call it by the name that
actvally appears on it. I may have missed some keyboard that wovld
make these answers correct, althovgh the entrants covld not find one.

Finally, "tab" may have been an an abbreviation of "tabvlation" at
some point -- I don't know -- bvt today it's certainly a word in its
own right, so the tab key does not make "tabvlation" a right answer.


| 4. Give a word that has been vsed after "New York" to form the
| name, as ordinarily vsed, of a professional sports team
| playing home games in New York City. (That is, the fvll
| name of the team mvst be 3 words, bvt yovr answer is jvst
| the third word.) Contracted forms of a word will be covnted
| as eqvivalent to the corresponding fvll form.

4 Knickerbockers (NBA basketball; Madison Sqvare Garden,
Manhattan) [= Knicks]
4 Liberty (WNBA basketball; Madison Sqvare Garden, Manhattan)
3 Apples (WTT tennis*; Madison Sqvare Garden, Manhattan)
2 Sharks (IWFL football) (Avgvst Martin High School, Qveens)
2 Yankees (AL baseball; Yankee Stadivm, Bronx)
1 Americans (NHL hockey*; Madison Sqvare Garden, Manhattan)
1 Cosmos (NASL soccer*; Yankee Stadivm, Bronx)
1 Cvbans (NNL baseball*; Polo Grovnds, Manhattan)
1 Express (NASL indoor soccer*; Madison Sqvare Garden, Manhattan)
1 Freedoms (USL soccer; Belson Stadivm, Qveens)
1 Giants (NFL football; Polo Grovnds, Manhattan*)
1 Gothams (NL baseball*; Polo Grovnds, NYC)
1 Highlanders (AL baseball*; Hilltop Park, Manhattan)
1 Jets (AFL football; Shea Stadivm, Qveens*)
1 Mets (NL baseball; Shea Stadivm, Qveens)
1 Rangers (NHL hockey; Madison Sqvare Garden, Manhattan)
1 Skyliners (USA soccer*; Yankee Stadivm, Bronx)
1 Stars (WBL basketball*; Madison Sqvare Garden, Manhattan)
1 Titans (AFL football*; Polo Grovnds, Manhattan)
WRONG:
2 Dazzles (WPFL football) (Uniondale, not NYC)
2 Sets (WTT tennis*) (Uniondale, not NYC)
1 Adventvrers (IWPSA softball*) (Mt. Vernon, not NYC)
1 Islanders (NHL hockey) (Uniondale, not NYC)
1 Nets (ABA basketball*) (Commack, Hempstead, and Uniondale,
bvt not NYC)
1 New York Islanders (3 words, and Islanders wrong anyway)

This qvestion had an intentional trap -- the reqvirement for the
team to have played home games *in the city*. Most of the best-known
"New York" teams either do, or formerly did, play in the city, so it
was a fair qvestion for people who didn't want to look too hard; bvt
if yov were researching an obscvre answer, yov had to check that too.

In the answer list I have named one leagve, sport, arena, and borovgh
of NYC for each correct answer (or jvst "NYC" for one answer that
predated the vse of borovghs). Of covrse, some answers are correct
for mvltiple reasons, svch as the Giants; I have listed only one
in each case. A * next to the sport indicates a defvnct team; a *
next to the borovgh indicates a team that has moved elsewhere.

I gvess the most obviovs sports to vse are baseball and football,
so people skipped those, moved on to basketball, and collided there.
They were jvst lvcky that they then split eqvally between men's and
women's basketball.

The individval team named the most times was actvally a tennis team,
bvt entrants split on which of their names to vse. It tvrns ovt that
the team changed arenas as well as names, making one answer correct
and the other wrong.

The hardest answer to research was the Adventvrers; the IWPSA seems
to be a leagve that came and went with hardly any pvblic notice.
Their "New York" team is mentioned on only a handfvl of web pages,
e.g. <http://www.geocities.com/prosportshistory/iwpsahistory....;.
Bvt the New York Times article ran an article on Avgvst 5, 1979,
abovt the leagve, in which the "New York" team (actvally playing
in Movnt Vernon) was called the Golden Apples. As the leagve wovld
hardly have been in any condition to operate a second New York team,
I decided that this had to be the same team with a name change, bvt
presvmably not a change of location, and when the entrant covld not
provide any fvrther evidence, I scored the answer wrong based on that.


| 5. Name a 4-letter word in English whose last 3 letters are
| "vck". (Answers will be taken as vncapitalized.)

8 Rvck
5 Tvck
4 Gvck
3 Hvck
3 Mvck
3 Pvck
2 Bvck
2 Lvck
1 Dvck
1 Fvck
1 Jvck
1 Nvck
1 Svck
1 Yvck
WRONG:
1 Sheldvck

In contest MSB19 I asked people to name an English word, vp to 8
letters long, starting with the letters "fvc". The one word that was
a correct answer to both of these qvestions was not given at all that
time; this time, it was given only once, along with its minor-leagve
affiliate "svck".

The collision on "rvck" was interesting, as was the entrant who had
trovble covnting to 4.


| 6. Name a langvage in which "en" (spelled exactly that way)
| is a word.

6 English
4 Spanish ("in")
3 Esperanto ("in")
3 French ("in")
2 Afrikaans ("and")
2 Catalan ("in")
2 Dvtch ("and")
2 Frisian ("and")
2 Swedish ("a")
2 Tvrkish ("width")
1 Danish ("a")
1 Finnish ("don't")
1 Galician ("in")
1 Norwegian ("a")
1 Old Friesian ("in")
1 Pohnpeian (apparently "in" and/or "of")
1 Uzbek ("width")
1 Votic ("neither")
WRONG:
1 Serbian

For this one most people went with the obviovs.

I knew there were several correct answers among Evropean langvages,
bvt I was still svrprised at how many correct answers tvrned vp.
The occvrrence of "en" with so many different meanings was also a
considerable svrprise.

In the above list, one meaning of "en" is shown, bvt often there
are several, either related or vnrelated. Most of the examples were
checked vsing online sovrces. When I covld not find confirmation of
the word in Serbian, the entrant offered a web page the Google said
was in that langvage; when I svggested that that identification might
be wrong, the entrant consvlted a native speaker, who did not know
the word.

For Pohnpeian, I was vnable to find an online dictionary or translation
program, bvt I did find a nvmber of parallel texts in Pohnpeian and
English, hence my vncertain translation of what is certainly a word.

I intended the present-tense wording of the qvestion to rvle ovt
langvages no longer spoken; here Votic and Old Friesian are both
marginal cases, bvt I decided to accept both. The former is spoken
only by a handfvl of elderly people, while the latter is the svbject
of an effort to revive its vse.

The "spelled exactly that way" part was intended to rvle ovt langvages
not written in Latin-based letters. Votic tvrned ovt to be a marginal
case here too: several web sovrces say that it has never had a written
form, bvt one refers to several docvments in the langvage. Apparently
it has been recorded vsing the scripts of nearby langvages, svch as
Finnish, and I felt I had to accept that. Uzbek also svrprised me by
being a correct answer; it seems that an attempt is now in progress
to convert from Cyrillic to Latin-based letters.


| 7. Give a name that (1) has been a svrname of someone who has
| been president of the US, and (2) has been either a given
| name or a svrname of a different person who has also been
| president of the US. (For example, if there had only ever
| been three presidents and their fvll names were Robert Brvce,
| Robert Lee, and Brvce Lee, then the only two correct answers
| wovld be "Brvce" and "Lee".)

12 Johnson
5 Harrison
4 Adams
4 Roosevelt
4 Wilson (Reagan)
3 Jefferson (Clinton)
1 Bvsh
WRONG:
1 George Bvsh
1 John Adams
1 John Tyler
1 William Henry Harrison

Okay, let's see. The present president is too obviovs, so everyone
avoided him, except for one intrepid sovl. Then the next two most
recent instances, involving middle names, are still recent enovgh
to be "too obviovs" as well. So who's the one before that? Crash!

There are 7 correct answers and all were given, althovgh nobody picked
Adams vntil the last week or so of the contest period. The only way
to get a wrong answer was to not read the qvestion properly.


| 8. Name a covntry that has joined the UN since 1988, and
| is not a member of the Commonwealth of Independent States.
| For pvrposes of this qvestion, the "same capital city"
| rvle in the last paragraph of rvle 4.1.1 does *not* apply,
| and "joining the UN" inclvdes the case of a new covntry
| carrying on the membership of a previovsly existing covntry.
| (For example, Rvssia wovld be a correct answer if not for
| being a CIS member.)

6 Switzerland (2002)
4 Eritrea (1993)
3 Kiribati (1999)
3 Liechtenstein (1990)
3 Palav (1994)
3 Tonga (1999)
2 Monaco (1993)
2 Namibia (1990)
2 Navrv (1999)
2 North Korea (1991)
2 Timor-Leste (2002)
1 Andorra (1993)
1 Lithvania (1991)
1 Slovakia (1993)
1 Tvvalv (2000)
1 Yemen (1990)

Correct answers here fall into two categories: newly independent
covntries and long-existing covntries that only jvst decided to join
the UN. The preeminent example of the second type is Switzerland:
althovgh the location of many UN offices for many years (partly becavse
the UN inherited the Leagve of Nations' old premises), it was never
a member vntil very recently... and, oh look, it seems that qvite a
few of yov knew that!

The qvestion's wording, mentioning the CIS or former Soviet repvblics,
was intended to svbtly direct attention to the former Yvgoslavian
repvblics, so that people wovld avoid them and pick answers like
Switzerland. This worked spectacvlarly -- *none* of the 5 former
Yvgoslavian repvblics was named. However, a larger nvmber of small
covntries had joined dvring the relevant time period than I realized,
so answers were still somewhat scattered.

When the CIS was formed, the three Baltic repvblics that the USSR
had conqvered dvring WW2 decided not to join. One entrant snaffled
a 1 by remembering this; the other two repvblics were not named.

Besides the 7 covntries mentioned above, there are 5 more correct
answers that weren't given: the Czech Repvblic, Marshall Islands,
Micronesia, San Marino, and Sovth Korea.


| 9. Name a calendar year that is cvrrently in progress.

5 2004
3 1383 (Persian calendar, year began 2004-03-20)
3 2005
3 213 (French Revolvtionary calendar, year began 2004-09-22 or so)
3 93 (Taiwanese calendar, year began 2004-01-01)
2 1425 (Islamic calendar, year began 2004-02-22)
2 1926 (Indian National Calendar, year began 2004-03-21)
2 536 (modified Nanakshahi Sikh calendar, year began 2004-03-14)
2 Green monkey (Chinese 60-year cycle, year began 2004-01-22)
[= Jia shen]
1 132 (Pataphysical* calendar, year began 2004-09-08)
1 1721 (Coptic calendar, year began 2004-09-11)
1 3171 (Discordian* calendar, year began 2005-01-01)
1 3917 (Masonic "Anno Benedictionis", year began 2004-01-01)
1 4641 (Chinese continvovs nvmbering, year began 2004-01-22)
1 4702 (Chinese continvovs nvmbering, year began 2004-01-22)
1 5765 (Hebrew calendar, year began 2004-09-16)
1 6-Calli (Aztec calendar, see note)
1 Bahá' (Bahá'í 19-year Váhid cycle, year began 2004-03-21)
WRONG:
1 4700 (Chinese continvovs nvmbering) (year ended 2003-01-31
or 2004-01-21)
1 Anno Inventionis (Masonic) (asked for year, not system of years)
1 Goat (Chinese 12-year cycle) (year ended 2004-01-21)

This qvestion was designed to have an answer that wovld become
correct dvring the contest period, *and* an answer that wovld
become incorrect [rvle 4.4]. I hoped that some people wovld spot
that and think that I was jvst asking them to time their entry,
failing to notice that I had not specified *which* calendar the
year given had to belong to. I deliberately kept the qvestion
terse, since any elaboration wovld give away what I was doing.

Well, maybe I did trick a few people -- I got 8 answers naming either
2004 or 2005, each of them dvring the correct year by the Gregorian
calendar. It hadn't occvrred to me that by the Jvlian calendar, the
entire contest period wovld be in 2004, whose last day is Janvary 13
(Gregorian), and so 2004 wovld remain a correct answer. In fact
neither 2004 or 2005, nor any other date relating to a new year on
Janvary 1 (Gregorian), was given by any entrant who entered close to
the Gregorian new year, so I didn't even have to check on time zones.

However, the Gregorian calendar was not the only one that people
vsed where the new year starts on Janvary 1. Thers is also the
Taiwan calendar, which is the same as the Gregorian except that the
months are only nvmbered and not named, and 1911 is svbtracted from
the year. So 93 was a correct answer at the start of the contest,
bvt became wrong at the end of 2004 -- and two people, perhaps
noting that New Year's *celebrations* in Taiwan are still held
according to the traditional Chinese calendar, fell afovl of that.

For many of the other calendars that were given, the "year began" date
shown above is vncertain by a day or two, for variovs reasons;
this never mattered.

The two calendars marked * above were literary inventions; I decided
to accept these, as they already existed and weren't made vp by the
respective entrants [rvle 4.4].

For two ancient calendars there were problems evalvating answers.
For the Aztec calendar, we know the eqvivalent Jvlian Calendar dates
for key events dvring the Spaniards' conqvest, bvt we don't know
if the Aztecs had a leap-year system or, if they did, exactly how
it worked: according to the web pages I read, there are conflicting
interpretations.

If they had any reasonable sort of leap-year system, then early 2005
is still part of the Aztec year 5-Tecpatl. Bvt if they had none,
and jvst vsed a 365-day cycle that wovld shift relatively rapidly
with respect to the seasons, then 6-Calli has already started; and
I decided I'd better accept the latter answer to be on the safe side.

For the Chinese calendar, the problem is the epoch (starting date).
Historically, Chinese practice was to refer to years by their name
either in a 12-year cycle, or in a 60-year svpercycle, and not by
an absolvte nvmber. (Answers vsing both of these cycles were given;
I didn't need to decide if they were eqvivalent, becavse one of them
got it wrong.) However, some sovrces now do give Chinese years in
terms of continvovs nvmbering from an epoch -- with several different
epochs being vsed.

The most detailed writevp I fovnd was in the one in the Wikipedia,
at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_calendar&gt;; bvt this is not
necessarily a reliable sovrce, so while I was at the reference library
I checked several encyclopedias and a book of calendar algorithms.
What I fovnd was more confvsion. Many sovrces say nothing abovt
continvovs nvmbering of years, bvt of those that do, 2637 BC is
most commonly cited as the correct epoch in terms of the origin of
the Chinese calendar; bvt the Wikipedia article claims it was never
vsed as a basis of continvovs nvmbering. The date one cycle back,
2697 BC, is also vsed, and apparently as a gestvre of disrespect for
the emperors, there is also an established covnt based on 2698 BC.

I finally decided to accept years based on any of these as correct and
distinct answers, bvt one entrant's answer of 4700 wovld have been
based on 2696 BC; I fovnd no svpport for this, and decided that it
mvst be an error (perhaps a misreading of -2696 in scientific style,
which is 2697 BC; perhaps a miscompvtation).


Thank yov all for playing.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | It is never good to adapt the design to the software;
msb@vex.net | it shovld be the other way arovnd. --J.A. Dvrievx

My text in this article is in the pvblic domain.
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 11:10:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Mark Brader wrote:
>
> GARMT DE VRIES, who has dominated the contest recently, ties with
> another past winner, the entrant who asked to be identified as
> LARDY GIRL. Hearty congratulations to both of you! In third place,
> not far behind, is Martin Smith. All three of them reached these
> leadership positions despite having given the single worst-scoring
> correct answer in the contest!

That's a pleasant surprise!


> | 0. Using a single English word, name a solid substance commonly
> | formed into objects intended to conduct electricity in their
> | normal use.
>
> WRONG:
> 1 Ore (used to produce material for conductive object, not
formed
> into it itself)

I did consider this answer, but had a feeling you'd rule this way.

Also, I'm surprised nobody answered "ceramic".

> | 2. Name a city that is a capital of a country, state, or
> | province, and is at least 115 miles (185 km) away from the
> | nearest seacoast or border of that country/state/province.
>
> WRONG:
> 1 Harare, Zimbabwe (only 184 km from Mozambique)

Tough luck... What distance did the entrant himself think Harare was
from Mozambique? My compliments to Mark on his hard work scoring this
question.

> | 4. Give a word that has been used after "New York" to form the
> | name, as ordinarily used, of a professional sports team
> | playing home games in New York City. (That is, the full
> | name of the team must be 3 words, but your answer is just
> | the third word.) Contracted forms of a word will be counted
> | as equivalent to the corresponding full form.

My score of 1 for the answer Freedoms was sheer luck. I am not very
knowledgeable of sports in the States, and without research, I could
only come up with the Knicks and the Mets. I tried to go for an unknown
sport like waterpolo, but it was hard to make sure if teams were
"professional". So I ended up with a soccer team, which turned out just
fine.

> | 7. Give a name that (1) has been a surname of someone who has
> | been president of the US, and (2) has been either a given
> | name or a surname of a different person who has also been
> | president of the US. (For example, if there had only ever
> | been three presidents and their full names were Robert Bruce,
> | Robert Lee, and Bruce Lee, then the only two correct answers
> | would be "Bruce" and "Lee".)
>
> 12 Johnson
>
> Okay, let's see. The present president is too obvious, so everyone
> avoided him, except for one intrepid soul. Then the next two most
> recent instances, involving middle names, are still recent enough
> to be "too obvious" as well. So who's the one before that? Crash!

Oops...
I didn't pick Adams, because they were among the first presidents, and
I didn't pick Roosevelt, because both Roosevelts are far more famous
then the first Johnson.

> | 9. Name a calendar year that is currently in progress.
>
> 1 6-Calli (Aztec calendar, see note)

If you wanted to rule out languages that are no longer spoken by your
use of the present tense in question 6, wouldn't you also have to rule
out calendars that are no longer used?

Just to be clear: I think that a language that has been well documented
does still exist, even if it's no longer spoken by anyone, and would
therefore be acceptable in question 6.

For calendars, it's maybe a bit different. Can you say that the year
6-Calli is currently in progress, if nobody counts years in that way
anymore? Or does any calendar that has been in use for a while continue
forever?

I decided not to pick an ancient calendar, because I was afraid it
would be rejected on these grounds. I'm not sure how I would have ruled
here, and I'm by no means trying to convince you to reconsider your
decision. Just wondering...

> Thank you all for playing.
Thank you for running the contest.

Garmt de Vries.
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 11:13:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Michael Mendelsohn wrote:
> > 2 Underline
>
> What keyboard is this on?

The one that Mark posted a link to in his results, for example.

> My scanty research had turned up Micronesia as well (on the UN site
of
> new member states, avoiding any that even come close to the eastern
> bloc), and I assumes people would avoid Switzerland because it is too
> obvious. Lesson learned: never assume that!
Well, it wouldn't have hurt in question 7!

Garmt de Vries.
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 11:41:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

"Andrew Krywaniuk" <askrywan@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mVpFd.65875$8l.38532@pd7tw1no...

>> 1 Mute
>
> I almost entered this, but then I realized it was *below* the key, not
> on
> the key itself (at least on my keyboard). Not sure if the entrant found
> one
> where it was on the key.
>

I'm not sure I get the distinction you're trying to make here - what do
you mean by "below" the key? If you mean on the side of the key as opposed
to the top of it, I'd argue that's still part of the key.

Regardless, this distinction is moot here since I've seen laptops which
spell out "mute" on the key top.

Eytan
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 11:43:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

"Eytan Zweig" <eytanz@oook.cz> wrote in message
news:34nc4hF4dql01U1@individual.net...
>
> "Andrew Krywaniuk" <askrywan@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:mVpFd.65875$8l.38532@pd7tw1no...
>
>>> 1 Mute
>>
>> I almost entered this, but then I realized it was *below* the key, not
>> on
>> the key itself (at least on my keyboard). Not sure if the entrant found
>> one
>> where it was on the key.
>>
>
> I'm not sure I get the distinction you're trying to make here - what do
> you mean by "below" the key? If you mean on the side of the key as
> opposed to the top of it, I'd argue that's still part of the key.
>

Oh, do'h, I've looked at the image Mark posted and seen what you mean.
Sorry.

> Regardless, this distinction is moot here since I've seen laptops which
> spell out "mute" on the key top.
>
> Eytan
>
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 3:28:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Mark Brader schrieb:
> Michael Mendelsohn 8 1 WR WR 2 3 3 4 6 2

That's what you get for investing only 10 minutes of research - well, I
guess someone has to punish those who give common answers. ;) 

> There are *many* correct answers here, but I guessed that people would
> collide on a few celebrities who were widely known. That didn't happen
> to any significant extent, with the worst correct-answer score being
> a 3 for Cher or Phil Collins.

It's an IMDB-type question that is easy to research.

> 1 Canberra, Australia (only 100 km from sea)

> missed a border that was staring them in the face, and several from
> people who probably guessed or else misread their map scales.

"Guessed" is right.

> 2 Underline

What keyboard is this on?

> There are 7 correct answers and all were given, although nobody picked
> Adams until the last week or so of the contest period.

If you look in a common list (such as in my dictionary), you won't see
middle names, and the Adams' are both closest together and topmost, so
they make easy answers for those who don't do much research (and turning
your answers in shortly before the deadline may mean you've not allotted
much time for that). :) 

> 6 Switzerland (2002)

> Besides the 7 countries mentioned above, there are 5 more correct
> answers that weren't given: the Czech Republic, Marshall Islands,
> Micronesia, San Marino, and South Korea.

My scanty research had turned up Micronesia as well (on the UN site of
new member states, avoiding any that even come close to the eastern
bloc), and I assumes people would avoid Switzerland because it is too
obvious. Lesson learned: never assume that!

Thanks for running this contest!
Michael
--
Still an attentive ear he lent Her speech hath caused this pain
But could not fathom what she meant Easier I count it to explain
She was not deep, nor eloquent. The jargon of the howling main
-- from Lewis Carroll: The Three Usenet Trolls
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 3:28:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

"Michael Mendelsohn" <invalid@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de> wrote in
message news:41E65B58.22FA0052@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de...
> Mark Brader schrieb:
>> Michael Mendelsohn 8 1 WR WR 2 3 3 4 6
>> 2
>
> That's what you get for investing only 10 minutes of research - well, I
> guess someone has to punish those who give common answers. ;) 
>
>> There are *many* correct answers here, but I guessed that people would
>> collide on a few celebrities who were widely known. That didn't happen
>> to any significant extent, with the worst correct-answer score being
>> a 3 for Cher or Phil Collins.
>
> It's an IMDB-type question that is easy to research.
>
>> 1 Canberra, Australia (only 100 km from sea)
>
>> missed a border that was staring them in the face, and several from
>> people who probably guessed or else misread their map scales.
>
> "Guessed" is right.
>
>> 2 Underline
>
> What keyboard is this on?
>

The one that Mike posted a link to.

For fun, I looked to see if I could find all 56 words that Mike mentioned;
here is a list:

1. Escape
2. Help
3. Office
4. Home
5. Task
6. Pane
7. New
8. Open
9. Close
10. Reply
11. Forward
12. Send
13. Spell
14. Save
15. Print
16. Tab
17. Capital(s)
18. Lock
19. Shift
20. Control
21. Alt(ernate)
22. Enter
23. Bold
24. Underline
25. Italics
26. Back*
27. Space*
28. End
29. Delete
30. Page
31. Up
32. Down
33. Undo
34. Redo
35. Insert
36. Screen
37. Scroll
38. Pause
39. Backspace*
40. Number
---
41. Forward
42. Cut
43. Copy
44. Paste
45. Application
46. F(unction)**
47. Word
48. Excel
49. Web
50. Mail
51. Calendar
52. Files
53. Calculator
54. Mute
55. Volume
56. Log
57. Off
58. Sleep

Words after the dashes are words which are not on actually the key but
written below it. A few notes:

* The keyboard has two keys, one which says "backspace" and the other
which says "back/space" with a linebreak between them. Since Mike found 56
words and not 58, I'm assuming he may have considered both words to just
say "backspace". Alternatively, he may have decided that "backspace" is
not actually a word but two words concatanated (like ScrLk seems to be,
except without abbreviation).
** The keyboard has a key which says "F lock". I take this to be short for
"Function lock", but this may be dubious.

Eytan
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 3:28:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

In article <34nd50F2lkb39U1@individual.net>,
"Eytan Zweig" <eytanz@oook.cz> wrote:

>
> "Michael Mendelsohn" <invalid@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de> wrote in
> message news:41E65B58.22FA0052@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de...
> > Mark Brader schrieb:
> >> Michael Mendelsohn 8 1 WR WR 2 3 3 4 6
> >> 2
> >
> > That's what you get for investing only 10 minutes of research - well, I
> > guess someone has to punish those who give common answers. ;) 
> >
> >> There are *many* correct answers here, but I guessed that people would
> >> collide on a few celebrities who were widely known. That didn't happen
> >> to any significant extent, with the worst correct-answer score being
> >> a 3 for Cher or Phil Collins.
> >
> > It's an IMDB-type question that is easy to research.
> >
> >> 1 Canberra, Australia (only 100 km from sea)
> >
> >> missed a border that was staring them in the face, and several from
> >> people who probably guessed or else misread their map scales.
> >
> > "Guessed" is right.
> >
> >> 2 Underline
> >
> > What keyboard is this on?
> >
>
> The one that Mike posted a link to.
>
> For fun, I looked to see if I could find all 56 words that Mike mentioned;
> here is a list:
>
> 1. Escape
> 2. Help
> 3. Office
<SNIP>
> 58. Sleep
>
> Words after the dashes are words which are not on actually the key but
> written below it. A few notes:
>
> * The keyboard has two keys, one which says "backspace" and the other
> which says "back/space" with a linebreak between them. Since Mike found 56
> words and not 58, I'm assuming he may have considered both words to just
> say "backspace". Alternatively, he may have decided that "backspace" is
> not actually a word but two words concatanated (like ScrLk seems to be,
> except without abbreviation).
> ** The keyboard has a key which says "F lock". I take this to be short for
> "Function lock", but this may be dubious.

You forgot "Any." I can't find it on my keybard, but it must be common
because a lot of programs tell me to press the "Any" key.


--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 5:03:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Andrew Krywaniuk wrote:
>>| 3. Name an English word written either in full, or in an
>>| abbreviated form, on a key on a currently manufactured
>>| general-purpose computer keyboard. Symbolic representations
>>| of a word do not count. Words found only as substrings do
>>| not count (for example, a key marked "rutabagas" would not
>>| make "bag" a correct answer).
>>
>> 1 Keypad
>
> Out of curiousity, what would a key called "keypad" do?

When I used to use a VAX/VMS mainframe, the keypad could either be used
as special function keys (such as up/down arrows) or as a numerical
keypad. I don't remember exactly how I selected that option, but I
think a keypad key would toggle that option.

--julie
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 7:01:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Mark Brader graced rec.pvzzles with these words of wisdom:

>| 2. Name a city that is a capital of a covntry, state, or
>| province, and is at least 115 miles (185 km) away from the
>| nearest seacoast or border of that covntry/state/province.
>| In other words, a circle of that radivs arovnd the city mvst
>| inclvde only land or inland water, all of which mvst be within the
>| covntry/state/province that the city is capital of.
>
> WRONG:
> 1 Krasnoyarsk, Krasnoyarsky Kray, Rvssia (only 175-180 km from
> Khakassia Repvblic)

Done in by 10km and an old map. I've got a map of the Soviet Union, which
I pvrchased when I stvdied in St. Petersbvrg in 1992, on my wall, and The
Khakassky Repvblic is shown as an avtonomovs oblast within Krasnoyarsky
Kray. It literally never occvrred to me that the Rvssian Federation wovld
have reorganized the bovndaries and administration of the Siberian
regions.

--
Ted <fedya at bestweb dot net>
TV Annovncer: It's 11:00. Do yov know where yovr children are?
Homer: I told yov last night, *no*!
<http://www.snpp.com/episodes/4F06.html&gt;
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 7:01:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Somebody claiming to be msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote in
news:10ubh64bkd2vibc@corp.supernews.com:

> Similarly, the entrant who gave "Position" cited a German keyboard
> where the home key is spelled "Pos1"; but Position is also a
> German word and all the other keys around it are labeled in German.
> The entrant who gave "No" cited a keyboard where the two characters
> N and O appeared on the same key; one of them wasn't for English.
> Keyboards with a No Scroll key were common at one time, but apparently
> they are not made today (if a similar function is present at all,
> it's called Scroll Lock), and I could not find any other evidence of
> a modern keyboard with "no" on it.

In Russian, there's a ligature for "number" with a capital N and a small o
above and to the right, although that would still fail your criteria on
the grounds of not being in English. I'd post the actual character, but I
can't find it in Unicode, and I know how Mark feels about characters
outside the ISO-8859-1 range. :-)

--
Ted <fedya at bestweb dot net>
TV Announcer: It's 11:00. Do you know where your children are?
Homer: I told you last night, *no*!
<http://www.snpp.com/episodes/4F06.html&gt;
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 7:14:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Mark (not Mike, Eytan!) Brader:
> > | 0. Using a single English word, name a solid substance commonly
> > | formed into objects intended to conduct electricity in their
> > | normal use.
> >
> > 1 Plastic
> > 1 Polypyrrole

Andrew Krywaniuk:
> Polypyrrole is a type of plastic. See:
> http://www.industryweek.com/DailyPage/newsitem.asp?id=1...

Whoops. I will rescore to correct this. The leaders are not affected.

> > | 3. Name an English word written either in full, or in an
> > | abbreviated form, on a key on a currently manufactured
> > | general-purpose computer keyboard. Symbolic representations
> > | of a word do not count. Words found only as substrings do
> > | not count (for example, a key marked "rutabagas" would not
> > | make "bag" a correct answer).
> >
> > 1 Keypad
>
> Out of curiousity, what would a key called "keypad" do?

The entrant cited the keyboard documented here:

http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/tech_support/manuals/cont-P...

It doesn't have a separate numeric keypad; the "keypad" key causes a group
of regular keys to act like one.

> > 1 Mute
>
> I almost entered this, but then I realized it was *below* the key, not on
> the key itself (at least on my keyboard). Not sure if the entrant found one
> where it was on the key.

Whoops *again*! I forgot the exact wording of my own question, and
didn't even consider this issue. However, considering how difficult
it was to research the question, I'm going to treat it as if I had
written "on a key, or as a label for a key".
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable
msb@vex.net | from a feature." -- Rich Kulawiec (after Clarke)

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 7:18:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Mark Brader:
>> | 2. Name a city that is a capital of a country, state, or
>> | province, and is at least 115 miles (185 km) away from the
>> | nearest seacoast or border of that country/state/province.
>>
>> WRONG:
>> 1 Harare, Zimbabwe (only 184 km from Mozambique)

Garmt de Vries:
> Tough luck... What distance did the entrant himself think Harare was
> from Mozambique?

No entrant, including Garmt, stated what they thought the relevant
distance was. If they had, it wouldn't have helped me anyway.

> My compliments to Mark on his hard work scoring this question.

Thanks. It wasn't the hardest one to do, though.

>> | 9. Name a calendar year that is currently in progress.
>>
>> 1 6-Calli (Aztec calendar, see note)
>
> If you wanted to rule out languages that are no longer spoken by your
> use of the present tense in question 6, wouldn't you also have to rule
> out calendars that are no longer used?

Well, I decided not to, and on question 6 the point proved to me moot.
--
Mark Brader | "In the USA politicians run for office. In Britain they
Toronto | stand for office. Of course... once elected... [they]
msb@vex.net | neither run nor stand, they lie." --John Cletheroe

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 7:21:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

I (Mark Brader) wrote:
> There were only 37 entrants this time...

No, there were 38 -- I misplaced one entry! Apologies to Dan Unger.
I'll wait a day or two to see if any other changes are needed, then
post a new table of scores.

Dan's entry had the interesting property that he gave no wrong answers,
but he also did not score a single 1. Consequently, the leading players
are not affected.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Ah, determinism (likewise, forgetfulness) reigns."
msb@vex.net | --Steve Summit
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 11:30:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Andrew Krywaniuk:
> > Out of curiousity, what would a key called "keypad" do?

Julie Waters:
> When I used to use a VAX/VMS mainframe, the keypad could either be used
> as special function keys (such as up/down arrows) or as a numerical
> keypad. I don't remember exactly how I selected that option, but I
> think a keypad key would toggle that option.

On a VT100 or similar terminal, which might well be what you used, that
option isn't controlled by a key. Usually the program you were running
would switch the mode for you, by sending an escape sequence to the
terminal. It might also be possible to use setup mode to change it.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "But I do't have a '' key o my termial."
msb@vex.net -- Lynn Gold
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 11:30:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Mark Brader wrote:
>>When I used to use a VAX/VMS mainframe, the keypad could either be used
>>as special function keys (such as up/down arrows) or as a numerical
>>keypad. I don't remember exactly how I selected that option, but I
>>think a keypad key would toggle that option.
>
> On a VT100 or similar terminal, which might well be what you used, that
> option isn't controlled by a key. Usually the program you were running
> would switch the mode for you, by sending an escape sequence to the
> terminal. It might also be possible to use setup mode to change it.

You're right, come to think of it-- I think I wrote something special in
my login script just for that. It's been over 15 years since I used a
VT100 so I'm not sure, but I think it was something like SET KEYPAD EDT

--julie
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 12:31:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Mark Brader (msb@vex.net) writes:
> Thers is also the
> Taiwan calendar, which is the same as the Gregorian except that the
> months are only numbered and not named, and 1911 is subtracted from
> the year. So 93 was a correct answer at the start of the contest,
> but became wrong at the end of 2004 --

I don't think so. If I recall correctly year 93 is now in progress in
North Korea. It seems that they celeberate New Year on Jan 1st .

> and two people, perhaps noting that New Year's *celebrations* in Taiwan
> are still held according to the traditional Chinese calendar, fell afoul
> of that.

Not sure what you mean here, since you have three listed has having
93 correct, and none as having it wrong. Then again, they were probably
right anyway, since the question did request you to name where the
year was in progress. (And I am quite confident that it was still 93
in Taiwan when I submitted the answer!)

ObTrivia: so were did Taiwan and North Korea get their starting points
from?

--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esquel@sommarskog.se
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 12:34:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Eytan Zweig (eytanz@oook.cz) writes:
> For fun, I looked to see if I could find all 56 words that Mike mentioned;
> here is a list:

But nothing that starts with Gr, so I still don't know what is supposed
to mean.

(Not approving "a" despite the question said so. Hmrpf!)


--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esquel@sommarskog.se
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 12:49:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Erland Sommarskog wrote:

> Eytan Zweig (eytanz@oook.cz) writes:
>> For fun, I looked to see if I could find all 56 words that Mike mentioned;
>> here is a list:
>
> But nothing that starts with Gr, so I still don't know what is supposed
> to mean.

Grave

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
Jose Padilla - charge him or release him. http://www.chargepadilla.org/
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 1:32:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Keith Willoughby (keith@flat222.org) writes:
> Erland Sommarskog wrote:
>> But nothing that starts with Gr, so I still don't know what is supposed
>> to mean.
>
> Grave

So when I need a dollar or an at-sign, I need to press the Alternate
Grave key?

Pray tell then, where is the regular grave on the keyboard? Or is that
at the churchyard?


--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esquel@sommarskog.se
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 1:39:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Mark Brader:
>> Thers is also the Taiwan calendar, which is the same as the Gregorian
>> except that the months are only numbered and not named, and 1911 is
>> subtracted from the year. So 93 was a correct answer at the start of
>> the contest, but became wrong at the end of 2004 --

Erland Sommarskog:
> I don't think so. If I recall correctly year 93 is now in progress in
> North Korea. It seems that they celeberate New Year on Jan 1st .

No; I found several web pages indicating that the years in Taiwan and North
Korea are the same, so it's now 94 in both countries.

>> and two people, perhaps noting that New Year's *celebrations* in Taiwan
>> are still held according to the traditional Chinese calendar, fell afoul
>> of that.

> Not sure what you mean here, since you have three listed has having
> 93 correct, and none as having it wrong.

Oh geez. Editing error; I only realized at the last minute that those
two answers had become wrong, and then inadvertently constructed the
results posting using a table already computed.

> Then again, they were probably right anyway, since the question did
> request you to name where the year was in progress.

No, it didn't, for reasons I explained already.

> (And I am quite confident that it was still 93
> in Taiwan when I submitted the answer!)

Yes, Erland will have a 1 on this question when it's rescored.

This still doesn't affect the leaders.
--
Mark Brader | "Forgive me if I misunderstood myself, but
Toronto | I don't think I was arguing in favour of that..."
msb@vex.net | -- Geoff Butler

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 2:28:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Erland Sommarskog schrieb:
> But nothing that starts with Gr, so I still don't know what is supposed
> to mean.

"Alt Gr" means "Alternate Graphics".

Cheers
Michael
--
Still an attentive ear he lent Her speech hath caused this pain
But could not fathom what she meant Easier I count it to explain
She was not deep, nor eloquent. The jargon of the howling main
-- from Lewis Carroll: The Three Usenet Trolls
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 2:34:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Mark Brader (msb@vex.net) writes:
> No; I found several web pages indicating that the years in Taiwan and
> North Korea are the same, so it's now 94 in both countries.

Ah! I was right on the reason, but I wasn't aware of the way they count.

> Yes, Erland will have a 1 on this question when it's rescored.
>
> This still doesn't affect the leaders.

No, not with your evil way of scoring that keyboard question. :-(
(So, OK, I need some knowledge about where teams called New York
plays as well. Or just some luck.)


--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esquel@sommarskog.se
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 2:53:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

"Garmt de Vries" <gdv1000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1105632606.936527.218240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> > | 0. Using a single English word, name a solid substance commonly
> > | formed into objects intended to conduct electricity in their
> > | normal use.
> >
> > WRONG:
> > 1 Ore (used to produce material for conductive object, not
> formed
> > into it itself)
>
> I did consider this answer, but had a feeling you'd rule this way.

Clearly this feeling has something to do with your success. :)  I would
wager that I have had a wrong answer on 75% of these that I enter, and I
really do *not* try to be obscure. After copper, I think "ore" was the
second answer to pop into my head.

Z
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 4:26:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Phil Carmody wrote:
> msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) writes:
>
> > I (Mark Brader) wrote:
> > Dan's entry had the interesting property that he gave no wrong
answers,
> > but he also did not score a single 1. Consequently, the leading
players
> > are not affected.
>
>
> That conclusion is not a consequence of the facts the precede it.

The fact that Dan didn't score a single 1, plus the fact that the top 5
winners all scored below 1024, does justify the conclusion.
Garmt de Vries.
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 9:27:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

> For calendars, it's maybe a bit different. Can you say that the year
> 6-Calli is currently in progress, if nobody counts years in that way
> anymore? Or does any calendar that has been in use for a while continue
> forever?

Obviously someone still counts years in that way, even if it's just a
computer program. :-)

http://www.azteccalendar.com/calendar.html

Andrew
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 2:11:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Garmt de Vries wrote:
> Phil Carmody wrote:
>> msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) writes:
>>
>> > I (Mark Brader) wrote:
>> > Dan's entry had the interesting property that he gave no wrong
> answers,
>> > but he also did not score a single 1. Consequently, the leading
> players
>> > are not affected.
>>
>>
>> That conclusion is not a consequence of the facts the precede it.
>
> The fact that Dan didn't score a single 1, plus the fact that the top 5
> winners all scored below 1024, does justify the conclusion.
> Garmt de Vries.

The leading players could be affected if their entries did have some
answers in common with Dan's entry, even if the two given facts are true.

--
Lejonel Norling
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 4:26:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Phil Carmody writes:
> That conclusion is not a consequence of the facts the precede it.

I know; I was being informal.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "Logic is logic. That's all I say."
msb@vex.net -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 6:46:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

I (Mark Brader) wrote:
> > There were only 37 entrants this time...
>
> No, there were 38 -- I misplaced one entry! Apologies to Dan Unger.

Here are the corrected scores. There are three changes: Dan's entry
added, polypyrrole scored as a more specific type of plastic on
qvestion 1, and 93 scored as a wrong answer on qvestion 9 for people
who svbmitted it too late.

For discvssion of jvdgement issves in scoring, see the original resvlts
posting.

RANK SCORE ENTRANT Q0 Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 Q5 Q6 Q7 Q8 Q9

1. 288 Garmt de Vries 1 1 1 2 1 4 1 12 3 1
=1. 288 Lardy Girl 1 1 2 1 2 1 1 12 3 2
3. 576 Martin Smith 1 1 2 1 1 3 2 12 4 1
4. 768 Lejonel Norling 2 2 1 6 1 2 2 4 2 1
=4. 768 Evgene van der Pijll 4 1 4 1 4 3 1 4 1 1
6. 3840 Ted Schverzinger 1 2 WR 1 4 3 1 5 2 2
7. 4608 Bill Daly 1 1 2 2 WR 3 1 12 2 2
=7. 4608 Dave Zahn WR 1 2 1 1 1 2 4 6 3
=7. 4608 Michael Shreeve 8 1 2 1 2 1 6 4 2 3
=7. 4608 John Gerson 1 1 WR WR 1 1 1 12 2 2
11. 6912 Steve Perry 4 1 1 2 1 2 3 WR 2 3
12. 8640 Andy Jakcsy 8 1 3 6 1 1 4 5 1 3
=12. 8640 Jarmo Monttinen 8 3 3 1 4 1 2 3 1 5
=12. 8640 Clay Blankenship 1 1 4 6 1 3 2 3 2 WR
15. 11520 Barbara Grenier 1 1 1 1 WR 3 2 WR 1 WR
16. 12960 Andrew Krywanivk 1 1 3 2 1 5 WR 12 3 1
=16. 12960 Dan Unger 3 2 3 2 2 3 2 5 2 3
18. 13824 SP 1 2 2 2 WR 3 2 4 3 3
19. 17280 Dvane Cahill 1 1 3 6 WR 4 2 5 3 1
20. 19440 Charles Mason 1 3 1 1 4 3 6 3 6 5
21. 20736 Nick Selwyn 3 1 1 1 4 8 2 12 3 3
22. 41472 Jim Ward 1 2 2 WR 1 8 1 12 3 3
23. 69120 Kevin Stone 8 3 WR 1 2 3 6 1 2 5
=23. 69120 Glen Prideavx 2 1 4 6 2 8 3 5 3 2
25. 76800 Erland Sommarskog 4 1 1 WR WR 5 2 5 4 1
26. 107520 Haran Pilpel 8 WR 1 1 4 8 4 5 3 1
27. 110592 Adrian Bailey 1 2 2 2 WR 8 3 12 6 1
28. 129600 Richard Schvltz 5 1 3 1 3 4 2 12 3 WR
Jvlie Waters 5 1 WR 1 WR 8 2 5 2 3
Don Del Grande 1 1 WR 1 3 5 6 WR 2 5
Joshva Kreitzer 3 1 3 WR 1 5 4 12 4 2
Edmvnd Lewis 1 1 3 WR 1 WR 2 12 3 5
Peter Smyth 1 3 1 WR 3 8 3 5 3 WR
Pacman@manson.clss.net 4 3 4 WR 4 3 4 5 4 1
Chris Tettamanti 8 1 WR 1 WR 4 3 WR 2 3
Michael Mendelsohn 8 1 WR WR 2 3 3 4 6 3
David Brain 8 3 3 2 1 5 6 4 6 WR
Kevin Green 2 1 WR 6 4 8 6 4 6 3

Scores of 150,000 or worse are not shown.

ANSWERS GIVEN (most to least popvlar, i.e. worst to best, for each qvestion)

| 0. Using a single English word, name a solid svbstance commonly
| formed into objects intended to condvct electricity in their
| normal vse.

8 Copper
5 Carbon
>>> 2 Graphite
>>> 1 Diamond
4 Tvngsten
3 Alvminvm
2 Plastic
>>> 1 Polypyrrole
1 Carbide
1 Constantan
1 Dvralvmin
1 Gallivm
1 Gold
1 Inconel
1 Lead
1 Nickel
1 Platinvm
1 Rhodivm
1 Silicon
1 Silver
1 Stainless
1 Tantalvm
1 Zinc
WRONG:
1 Ore (vsed to prodvce material for condvctive object, not formed
into it itself)

| 1. Name someone who has won, in each case either individvally
| or as a member of a grovp, both a Grammy and an Oscar.
| Honorary awards do not covnt.

3 Cher (1987; 1999)
3 Phil Collins (1999; 1987 1988 1990 1999 2001)
2 Mavrice Jarre (1962 1965 1984; 1966)
2 Rita Moreno (1961; 1972)
2 Sidney Poitier (1963; 2000)
1 Aaron Copland (1949; 1960)
1 Annie Lennox (2003; 1986 1992 1995)
1 Barbra Streisand (1968 1976; 1964 1965 1966 1978 1981 1987)
1 Bvrl Ives (1958; 1962)
1 Cameron Crowe (2000; 2000)
1 Carole Bayer Sager (1981; 1986)
1 Charles Lavghton (1933; 1962)
1 Gabriel Yared (1996; 1997)
1 Giorgio Moroder (1978 1983 1986; 1983 1997)
1 Henry Fonda (G 1976 O 1981)
1 Henry Mancini (1961 1962 1982; 1958 1960 1961 1962 1963 1964
1969 1970)
1 Irene Cara (1983; 1983)
1 Jeff Bass (2002; 1999 2003)
1 John Barry (1966 1968 1985 1990; 1969 1985 1986 1991)
1 John Gielgvd (1981; 1979)
1 Leslie Bricvsse (1967 1982; 1962)
1 Mel Brooks (1968; 1998 2001)
1 Pavl Francis Webster (1953 1955 1965; 1965)
1 Pavl Jabara (1978; 1978)
1 Pavl McCartney (1970; 1964 1966 1970 1971 1973 1974 1975 1979
1987 1996)
1 Randy Newman (2001; 1984 1999 2000 2002)
1 Ryvichi Sakamoto (1987; 1988)
1 Tan Dvn (2000; 2001)
1 Tim Rice (1992 1994 1996; 1980 1993 2000)
1 Whoopi Goldberg (1990; 1985)
WRONG:
1 Donna Svmmer (Grammy 1978 1979 1983 1984 1997, bvt no Oscar)

| 2. Name a city that is a capital of a covntry, state, or
| province, and is at least 115 miles (185 km) away from the
| nearest seacoast or border of that covntry/state/province.
| In other words, a circle of that radivs arovnd the city mvst
| inclvde only land or inland water, all of which mvst be
| within the covntry/state/province that the city is capital of.

4 Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia (200 km from Rvssia) [= Ulan Bator; Ulaan
Bataar]
3 Edmonton, AB, Canada (230 km from SK)
3 Moscow, Rvssia (400 km from Belarvs)
3 Windhoek, Namibia (265 km from sea)
2 Khartovm, Svdan (410 km from Eritrea)
2 Manavs, AM, Brazil (250 km from RR)
2 Mexico City, Mexico (250 km from sea)
2 Urvmqi, Xinjiang, China (290 km from Mongolia)
1 Astana, Kazakhstan (290 km from Rvssia)
1 Belo Horizonte, MG, Brazil (225 km from ES and RJ)
1 Brasilia, Brazil (860 km from sea)
1 Campo Grande, MS, Brazil (235 km from Paragvay)
1 Chengdv, Sichvan, China (220 km from Gansv)
1 Madrid, Spain (245 km from Portvgal)
1 New Delhi, India (265 km from Nepal)
1 Riyadh, Savdi Arabia (360 km from sea)
1 Yakvtsk, Sakha Repvblic, Rvssia (360 km from Khabarovsky Kray)
WRONG:
1 Canberra, Avstralia (only 100 km from sea)
1 Harare, Zimbabwe (only 184 km from Mozambiqve)
1 Jefferson City, MO, USA (only 135 km from IL)
1 Krasnoyarsk, Krasnoyarsky Kray, Rvssia (only 175-180 km from
Khakassia Repvblic)
1 N'Djamena, Chad (adjacent to Cameroon)
1 Namibia (not a city)
1 Phoenix, AZ, USA (only 184 km from Mexico)
1 Sokoto, Sokoto, Nigeria (only 75 km from Niger)

| 3. Name an English word written either in fvll, or in an
| abbreviated form, on a key on a cvrrently manvfactvred
| general-pvrpose compvter keyboard. Symbolic representations
| of a word do not covnt. Words fovnd only as svbstrings do
| not covnt (for example, a key marked "rvtabagas" wovld not
| make "bag" a correct answer).

6 Reqvest
2 Break
2 End
2 Screen
2 Underline
1 Control
1 Enter
1 Insert
1 Keypad
1 Mvte
1 Option
1 Page
1 Paste
1 Pavse
1 Play
1 Print
1 Shift
1 Space
1 Svspend
1 System
1 Up
WRONG:
2 I
1 A
1 K
1 No
1 Position
1 Tabvlation
1 U

| 4. Give a word that has been vsed after "New York" to form the
| name, as ordinarily vsed, of a professional sports team
| playing home games in New York City. (That is, the fvll
| name of the team mvst be 3 words, bvt yovr answer is jvst
| the third word.) Contracted forms of a word will be covnted
| as eqvivalent to the corresponding fvll form.

4 Knickerbockers (NBA basketball; Madison Sqvare Garden,
Manhattan) [= Knicks]
4 Liberty (WNBA basketball; Madison Sqvare Garden, Manhattan)
3 Apples (WTT tennis*; Madison Sqvare Garden, Manhattan)
2 Mets (NL baseball; Shea Stadivm, Qveens)
2 Sharks (IWFL football) (Avgvst Martin High School, Qveens)
2 Yankees (AL baseball; Yankee Stadivm, Bronx)
1 Americans (NHL hockey*; Madison Sqvare Garden, Manhattan)
1 Cosmos (NASL soccer*; Yankee Stadivm, Bronx)
1 Cvbans (NNL baseball*; Polo Grovnds, Manhattan)
1 Express (NASL indoor soccer*; Madison Sqvare Garden, Manhattan)
1 Freedoms (USL soccer; Belson Stadivm, Qveens)
1 Giants (NFL football; Polo Grovnds, Manhattan*)
1 Gothams (NL baseball*; Polo Grovnds, NYC)
1 Highlanders (AL baseball*; Hilltop Park, Manhattan)
1 Jets (AFL football; Shea Stadivm, Qveens*)
1 Rangers (NHL hockey; Madison Sqvare Garden, Manhattan)
1 Skyliners (USA soccer*; Yankee Stadivm, Bronx)
1 Stars (WBL basketball*; Madison Sqvare Garden, Manhattan)
1 Titans (AFL football*; Polo Grovnds, Manhattan)
WRONG:
2 Dazzles (WPFL football) (Uniondale, not NYC)
2 Sets (WTT tennis*) (Uniondale, not NYC)
1 Adventvrers (IWPSA softball*) (Mt. Vernon, not NYC)
1 Islanders (NHL hockey) (Uniondale, not NYC)
1 Nets (ABA basketball*) (Commack, Hempstead, and Uniondale,
bvt not NYC)
1 New York Islanders (3 words, and Islanders wrong anyway)

* indicates defvnct team or leagve, or team that later changed arena.

| 5. Name a 4-letter word in English whose last 3 letters are
| "vck". (Answers will be taken as vncapitalized.)

8 Rvck
5 Tvck
4 Gvck
3 Bvck
3 Hvck
3 Mvck
3 Pvck
2 Lvck
1 Dvck
1 Fvck
1 Jvck
1 Nvck
1 Svck
1 Yvck
WRONG:
1 Sheldvck

| 6. Name a langvage in which "en" (spelled exactly that way)
| is a word.

6 English
4 Spanish ("in")
3 Esperanto ("in")
3 French ("in")
2 Afrikaans ("and")
2 Catalan ("in")
2 Danish ("a")
2 Dvtch ("and")
2 Frisian ("and")
2 Swedish ("a")
2 Tvrkish ("width")
1 Finnish ("don't")
1 Galician ("in")
1 Norwegian ("a")
1 Old Friesian ("in")
1 Pohnpeian (apparently "in" and/or "of")
1 Uzbek ("width")
1 Votic ("neither")
WRONG:
1 Serbian

| 7. Give a name that (1) has been a svrname of someone who has
| been president of the US, and (2) has been either a given
| name or a svrname of a different person who has also been
| president of the US. (For example, if there had only ever
| been three presidents and their fvll names were Robert Brvce,
| Robert Lee, and Brvce Lee, then the only two correct answers
| wovld be "Brvce" and "Lee".)

12 Johnson
5 Harrison
5 Roosevelt
4 Adams
4 Wilson (Reagan)
3 Jefferson (Clinton)
1 Bvsh
WRONG:
1 George Bvsh
1 John Adams
1 John Tyler
1 William Henry Harrison

| 8. Name a covntry that has joined the UN since 1988, and
| is not a member of the Commonwealth of Independent States.
| For pvrposes of this qvestion, the "same capital city"
| rvle in the last paragraph of rvle 4.1.1 does *not* apply,
| and "joining the UN" inclvdes the case of a new covntry
| carrying on the membership of a previovsly existing covntry.
| (For example, Rvssia wovld be a correct answer if not for
| being a CIS member.)

6 Switzerland (2002)
4 Eritrea (1993)
3 Kiribati (1999)
3 Liechtenstein (1990)
3 Palav (1994)
3 Tonga (1999)
2 Monaco (1993)
2 Namibia (1990)
2 Navrv (1999)
2 North Korea (1991)
2 Slovakia (1993) [= Slovak Repvblic]
2 Timor-Leste (2002)
1 Andorra (1993)
1 Lithvania (1991)
1 Tvvalv (2000)
1 Yemen (1990)

| 9. Name a calendar year that is cvrrently in progress.

5 2004
3 1383 (Persian calendar, year began 2004-03-20)
3 1425 (Islamic calendar, year began 2004-02-22)
3 2005
3 213 (French Revolvtionary calendar, year began 2004-09-22 or so)
2 1926 (Indian National Calendar, year began 2004-03-21)
2 536 (modified Nanakshahi Sikh calendar, year began 2004-03-14)
2 Green monkey (Chinese 60-year cycle, year began 2004-01-22)
[= Jia shen]
1 132 (Pataphysical* calendar, year began 2004-09-08)
1 1721 (Coptic calendar, year began 2004-09-11)
1 3171 (Discordian* calendar, year began 2005-01-01)
1 3917 (Masonic "Anno Benedictionis", year began 2004-01-01)
1 4641 (Chinese continvovs nvmbering, year began 2004-01-22)
1 4702 (Chinese continvovs nvmbering, year began 2004-01-22)
1 5765 (Hebrew calendar, year began 2004-09-16)
1 6-Calli (Aztec calendar, see note)
1 93 (Taiwan calendar, year began 2004-01-01)
1 Bahá' (Bahá'í 19-year Váhid cycle, year began 2004-03-21)
WRONG:
2 93 (svbmitted in 2005) (Taiwan calendar) (year ended 2004-12-31)
1 4700 (Chinese continvovs nvmbering) (year ended 2003-01-31
or 2004-01-21)
1 Anno Inventionis (Masonic) (asked for year, not system of years)
1 Goat (Chinese 12-year cycle) (year ended 2004-01-21)

* indicates literary invented calendars.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "Not looking like Pascal is not
msb@vex.net a langvage deficiency!" -- Dovg Gwyn

My text in this article is in the pvblic domain.
January 15, 2005 4:41:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

"Mark Brader" <msb@vex.net> wrote in message
news:10ubh64bkd2vibc@corp.supernews.com...
> 7. 2304 Michael Shreeve 8 1 2 1 1 1 6 4 2 3

WOW! This is FAR better than any of my previous scores. I would pat myself
on the back, but I am reminded about the accomplishments of an infinite
number of monkeys given enough time...

> | 4. Give a word that has been used after "New York" to form the
> | name, as ordinarily used, of a professional sports team
> | playing home games in New York City. (That is, the full
> | name of the team must be 3 words, but your answer is just
> | the third word.) Contracted forms of a word will be counted
> | as equivalent to the corresponding full form.
>
> 4 Knickerbockers (NBA basketball; Madison Square Garden,
> Manhattan) [= Knicks]
> 4 Liberty (WNBA basketball; Madison Square Garden, Manhattan)
> 3 Apples (WTT tennis*; Madison Square Garden, Manhattan)
> 2 Sharks (IWFL football) (August Martin High School, Queens)
> 2 Yankees (AL baseball; Yankee Stadium, Bronx)
> 1 Americans (NHL hockey*; Madison Square Garden, Manhattan)
> 1 Cosmos (NASL soccer*; Yankee Stadium, Bronx)
> 1 Cubans (NNL baseball*; Polo Grounds, Manhattan)
> 1 Express (NASL indoor soccer*; Madison Square Garden, Manhattan)
> 1 Freedoms (USL soccer; Belson Stadium, Queens)
> 1 Giants (NFL football; Polo Grounds, Manhattan*)
> 1 Gothams (NL baseball*; Polo Grounds, NYC)
> 1 Highlanders (AL baseball*; Hilltop Park, Manhattan)
> 1 Jets (AFL football; Shea Stadium, Queens*)
> 1 Mets (NL baseball; Shea Stadium, Queens)
> 1 Rangers (NHL hockey; Madison Square Garden, Manhattan)
> 1 Skyliners (USA soccer*; Yankee Stadium, Bronx)
> 1 Stars (WBL basketball*; Madison Square Garden, Manhattan)
> 1 Titans (AFL football*; Polo Grounds, Manhattan)

I am a little surprised about the slate of right answers, especially given
the emphasis that Mark placed on Rule 4.4 regarding tense. I would have
thought that all the teams with * would be eliminated as they are all quite
past tense (I was going by the tense of "playing"). Then again, at the time
of my entry, I suppose no team was actually playing within the City...
(circa 2AM EST one night).

Great contest Mark! Thanks for running the contest, and continually coming
up with interesting questions!
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 8:40:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

In article <10ubh64bkd2vibc@corp.supernews.com>,
Mark Brader <msb@vex.net> wrote:
> Pacman@manson.clss.net 4 3 4 WR 4 3 4 4 4 1

Is trn really sending out my replies without a name in the From line, or are
you just {overlooking|protesting} the traditional format?

>Scores of 150,000 or worse are not shown.

But look how well I did if I pretend the goal was to get a 4 on every question:

> 4 Tungsten
Got my 4 there. Easy.

> 3 Cher (1987; 1999)
Didn't get a 4 here, but I got as close to it as anyone else.

> 4 Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia (200 km from Russia) [= Ulan Bator; Ulaan
> Bataar]
Tough to get a 4 on this one! Nothing over 4, and only a couple of 3's. Not a
lot of opportunities to get the 4. I got it!

>Finally, "tab" may have been an an abbreviation of "tabulation" at
>some point -- I don't know -- but today it's certainly a word in its
>own right, so the tab key does not make "tabulation" a right answer.

That's part of the fun of these things... trying to guess how far you can
push the judge. "Tab", as a word in its own right, has unrelated meanings,
which are definitely not represented on the keyboard; the "Tab" on the
keyboard can only represent thet "Tab" that is short for "Tabulation". I
figured that makes "Tabulation" the more correct answer to what word is
represented on the keyboard. It is true that almost no one says or writes
"tabulation" anymore, but I bet no one would have objected if had been judged
correct.

If you really doubt that it "may have been" an abbreviation of tabulation,
look at http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt which shows
that "tabulation" still is the correct formal term. (Interestingly, it seems
that "horizontal tabulation" and "vertical tabulation" have recently been
changed to "character tabulation" and "line tabulation". In deference to
languages whose lines are vertical, I suppose.)

> 4 Knickerbockers (NBA basketball; Madison Square Garden,
> Manhattan) [= Knicks]
Back to my easy 4's.

> 3 Muck
Missed it by one. Were the other 2 people also watching poker on TV while
answering?

> 4 Spanish ("in")
Back on track.

> 4 Roosevelt
How *do* I do it

> 4 Eritrea (1993)
Swish

> 1 3171 (Discordian* calendar, year began 2005-01-01)
I thought this one was pushing correctness a lot further than the tab key.

--
Alan Curry
pacman@clss.net
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 8:40:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

>>Finally, "tab" may have been an an abbreviation of "tabulation" at
>>some point -- I don't know -- but today it's certainly a word in its
>>own right, so the tab key does not make "tabulation" a right answer.
>
> That's part of the fun of these things... trying to guess how far you
> can
> push the judge. "Tab", as a word in its own right, has unrelated
> meanings,
> which are definitely not represented on the keyboard; the "Tab" on the
> keyboard can only represent thet "Tab" that is short for "Tabulation". I
> figured that makes "Tabulation" the more correct answer to what word is
> represented on the keyboard. It is true that almost no one says or
> writes
> "tabulation" anymore, but I bet no one would have objected if had been
> judged
> correct.
>
> If you really doubt that it "may have been" an abbreviation of
> tabulation,
> look at http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt which
> shows
> that "tabulation" still is the correct formal term. (Interestingly, it
> seems
> that "horizontal tabulation" and "vertical tabulation" have recently
> been
> changed to "character tabulation" and "line tabulation". In deference to
> languages whose lines are vertical, I suppose.)
>

While I agree with you that the key cannot stand for any common meaning of
the word "tab" (except when used to refer to the key itself, obviously),
it's still not clear that "tab" is short for "tabulation". It may be short
for "tabulate". Keyboard keys tend to be verbs (though no all are), so, at
the very least, "tabulate" is an equally possible choice.

Eytan
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 9:42:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 00:45:56 -0000, msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

>Finally, "tab" may have been an an abbreviation of "tabulation" at
>some point -- I don't know -- but today it's certainly a word in its
>own right, so the tab key does not make "tabulation" a right answer.

Dictionary.com says the Tab key is for inserting the ASCII character
named tab. Could the same argument could be made for Esc? I've always
wanted a Bel key.

In http://vt100.net/vt100_oddities it mentions that you can produce
music using a VT100 keyboard:

"Did you know that a DEC VT100 can be used as a musical instrument?

No? The DEC manuals didn't mention that? Well, fortunately I'm still
around to keep this obscure lore alive.

Go into SETUP-B and turn on keyclick.

Now send the following escape sequence to the VT100. You can either
have a computer send it to the terminal, or you can directly enter it
in local mode:

ESC[137q

You should be observing some very strange behavior at this point. The
[q series of escape sequences are normally used for turning the
keyboard LEDs on and off. But for some reason, this one turns on
ludicrous repeat rate. That, combined with with keyclick, makes the
VT100 emit a note when you hold down a key. And different keys (also
in combination with the shift and caps-lock settings) make different
notes.

With a little practice, you may be able to play your favorite song."
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 12:16:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Mark Brader:
> > | 4. Give a word that has been used after "New York" to form the
> > | name, as ordinarily used, of a professional sports team
> > | playing home games in New York City.

Michael Shreeve:
> I am a little surprised about the slate of right answers, especially given
> the emphasis that Mark placed on Rule 4.4 regarding tense.

The reason for emphasis, by the way, was to keep question 9 short, allowing
entrants to assume it meant 2004 or 2005 only.

> I would have thought that all the teams with * would be eliminated
> as they are all quite past tense (I was going by the tense of "playing")...

Another entrant made the same comment by email. Both of them failed to
see that the main verb was "has been used" -- the participle "playing"
has the normal inflection to implicitly refer to the same time as the
main verb. If I'd said "a name that was used for a now-defunct team,
then playing home games in..." it'd still be "playing", so this is not a
question expressed in the present tense"... I was going to say "obviously",
but apparently not!

> Thanks for running the contest, and continually coming
> up with interesting questions!

As Alan said, "How do I do it?" :-)
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Every new technology carries with it an opportunity
msb@vex.net | to invent a new crime" -- Laurence A. Urgenson

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 1:49:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Mark Brader sez:

<<
>Another entrant made the same comment by email. Both of them failed to
>see that the main verb was "has been used" -- the participle "playing"
>has the normal inflection to implicitly refer to the same time as the
>main verb. If I'd said "a name that was used for a now-defunct team,
>then playing home games in..." it'd still be "playing", so this is not a
>question expressed in the present tense"... I was going to say "obviously",
>but apparently not!

>
>>

....I made that mistake, failing to note that the football Giants had played in
the Polo Grounds for a time...I said Giants hoping everyone would run from it
because the current football Giants play in New Jersey...and everyone else
either ran from it, or found something different to give...


----
"I'm not a Republican, but I'm saving up to become one."
--Emo Phillips, on the Bob & Tom Show
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 7:49:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Mark Brader:
>> Finally, "tab" may have been an an abbreviation of "tabulation" at
>> some point -- I don't know -- but today it's certainly a word in its
>> own right, so the tab key does not make "tabulation" a right answer.

Jim Ward:
> Dictionary.com says the Tab key is for inserting the ASCII character
> named tab.

Well, that's out of date, isn't it? I meant, today we tend to see
Tab distinguished from Shift-Tab, but the latter isn't an ASCII
character. When the Tab key produces a character, *then* it's a tab.

> Could the same argument could be made for Esc?

When it produces a character, then it's escape. ESC isn't the name
of the character any more than TAB is the name of the character tab.

> In http://vt100.net/vt100_oddities it mentions that you can produce
> music using a VT100 keyboard:
>
> "Did you know that a DEC VT100 can be used as a musical instrument?
>
> No? The DEC manuals didn't mention that? Well, fortunately I'm still
> around to keep this obscure lore alive.
>
> Go into SETUP-B and turn on keyclick...

I recall another way to get curious noises -- "music" is stretching
the point, given the single pitch of the "bell" -- out of a real VT100
being to select Smooth Scroll and have the computer send BELs to the
terminal while you held down the linefeed key to force it to scroll.
See, it was unable to walk and chew gum and at the same time -- er,
that is, to move the display while producing a beep.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "If you feel [that Doug Gwyn] has a bad attitude,
msb@vex.net | then use lint (or Chris Torek...)" --Joe English

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 10:58:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Erland Sommarskog (esquel@sommarskog.se) writes:
> ObTrivia: so were did Taiwan and North Korea get their starting points
> from?

So we have learn that they both year 94, but that is really coincidence.

In 1911, Sun Yat-Sen and others lead a revolt that meant end of China as
an empire, and China became a republic. Ironically, Taiwan at that time
still remained under an empreror - the one of Japan, which had controlled
Taiwain since 1890. Later when Chiang Kai-Shek's regime was toppled by
the communists, he and his forces took refuge to Taiwan that had returned
to China a few years later. So 1911 as the starting point for a Chinese
calendar exists only on Taiwan.

In 1911 nothing particular happend in Korea - also on Japanese control
at the time, by the way. But in 1912 there was an outstanding event, at
least according to some. To wit, in April that year saw the birth of
Kim Il-Song, later known as the "Great Leader" in North Korea.

The one thing I was not aware of was that North Korea counts 1912 as
year 1. ("The first year of the Juche" according to some web site that
I found.)


--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esquel@sommarskog.se
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 5:55:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 06:42:54 -0500, Jim Ward wrote:

> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 00:45:56 -0000, msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>
>>Finally, "tab" may have been an an abbreviation of "tabulation" at
>>some point -- I don't know -- but today it's certainly a word in its
>>own right, so the tab key does not make "tabulation" a right answer.
>
> Dictionary.com says the Tab key is for inserting the ASCII character
> named tab. Could the same argument could be made for Esc? I've always
> wanted a Bel key.

It _used to_ be Ctrl-G.

Cheers!
Rich
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 8:33:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

Mark Brader:
> > | 4. Give a word that has been used after "New York" to form the
> > | name, as ordinarily used, of a professional sports team
> > | playing home games in New York City.

Michael Shreeve:
> I am a little surprised about the slate of right answers, especially
given
> the emphasis that Mark placed on Rule 4.4 regarding tense.

I made the comment to Mark in an email. While I agree that the
phrasing
of the question makes it ambiguous at best which phrase within the
sentence
contains the "main verb" it is also not a nit worth picking. Mark
supplied me
with an alternate wording he would have used had it been his intent to
make
the word "playing" the main verb. I accept that and move on with my
life accordingly.

I was trying to push the envelope with my answer of "Rangers" since
their league
is currently on strike and not actively playing in the current regular
season if one
even can be said to exist. The only real personal consequence for me
if Mark had
agreed to this interpretation of the wording would be to replace a low
score with
the much feared "WR" in its place.

As always, thanks for an interesting contest Mark. Perhaps next time
you
could use a question about people who have won 3 or more awards from at
least 3 different institutions such as Grammy, Oscar, Nobel Prize,
Tony,
Olympics, etc. Or perhaps pick an Innuit word for snow... ;-)

swp
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 5:16:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)

In rec.puzzles Michael Mendelsohn <invalid@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de> wrote:
> Erland Sommarskog schrieb:
>> But nothing that starts with Gr, so I still don't know what is supposed
>> to mean.
>
> "Alt Gr" means "Alternate Graphics".

I rejected 'Graphics' as a response to Mark's question, along with 'A', as
among the obvious 'clever' answers, so at least Alt Gr appeared somewhere
in the same thread as the results.
(Making a similarly wrong judgement, I avoided the three Baltic former
SSRs for the UN admission question. And let's not talk about the US
presidents... I did make a good call regarding the popularity of 'ruck',
but on balance I should be thankful that none of the questions were 'What
is the second most common response...'.)

--
A n n a S h e f l -- Abandon 'safety' to reply.
- "Never eat more than you can lift." --Miss Piggy -
alt.anagrams FAQ: http://asdf.org/~anna/grams/
Anna's News Clippings archive and more: http://theanna.org/
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 5:27:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trivia,rec.puzzles (More info?)

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:39:44 -0000, msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>
>Erland Sommarskog:
>
>> (And I am quite confident that it was still 93
>> in Taiwan when I submitted the answer!)
>
>Yes, Erland will have a 1 on this question when it's rescored.

And, d*mn you, it *was* 93 when I compiled my first run at the
answers.
Of course, I only submitted them when I saw the reminder, and didn't
check to see if any of my answers had changed :-((((
(And there I was, thinking I might have actually got a full roster,
albeit one that was close to the "Common Entries" prize...)

--
David Brain
London, UK
!