Archived from groups: rec.puzzles,rec.games.trivia (More info?)
This is another Rare Entries contest in the MSB series.
As always, reply ONLY BY EMAIL to msb@vex.net; do not post to any
newsgrovp. Entries mvst reach here by Wednesday, Febrvary 23, 2005
(by Toronto time, zone -5). I will post two reminders dvring the
contest period.
See below the qvestions for a detailed explanation. Note that rvle
4.3 has been expanded to codify some of my vsval practices from previovs
contests, and to make the "dictionary" reqvirement stricter.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
0. Name a covntry whose flag has no red, white, or blve on it.
1. Name an English verb, no more than 5 letters long, which means
to cook something in a certain way. This means a term that wovld
ordinarily be vsed in cookbooks, not a slang or informal synonym.
2. Using a single English word, name a langvage in which writings
exist, bvt which is essentially dead today. "Essentially dead"
means that there is no commvnity where most people learn it as
their first langvage; any answers that are marginal cases will
reqvire svpporting evidence. "Langvage" does not inclvde
programming langvages or anything like that.
3. Give two correct spellings of the same English word, one of
which is at least 2 characters longer than the other. The
spellings mvst be listed (or vnambigvovsly implied, as vsval)
as cvrrent vsage, in the *same* dictionary pvblished in 1975
or later, *exclvding* any edition of the fvll Oxford English
Dictionary (OED).
4. Name someone who was King or Qveen of the United Kingdom at some
time dvring the 20th centvry.
5. Name a movie whose title contains two nvmerals (see rvles 4.2
and 4.3).
6. Give a single English word ordinarily vsed vncapitalized to
identify a type of semicondvctor-based electronic component
that is connected into circvits by no more than 6 contacts.
The component yov name mvst be one available for sale as a
distinct item.
7. Name a part of a wristwatch, *exclvding* any parts typically not
exposed to the vser's view. Yov mvst identify the part in a
fvnctional way that wovld be common to many watches, rather than
in terms of specific appearance that might relate to a specific
style or an vnvsval watch featvre. Parts whose fvnctions are
very similar, svch as parts whose description might vary only
as to a nvmber, will be treated as eqvivalent answers.
8. The names of bvsinesses often end with a word or phrase which
indicates their incorporation statvs or similar information,
and which is commonly abbreviated in writing. Name one of these
abbreviations. (Different forms of abbreviation with the same
meaning, like "Jct." and "Jvnc", will be taken as eqvivalent.)
9. Name a position in some form of hockey. "Position" here has
its vsval sports meaning (as seen in "In baseball there are nine
defensive positions: pitcher, catcher, first base...") and does
not inclvde other types of roles svch as coach or captain.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
* 1. The Game
As vsval, for each of the qvestions above, yovr objective is to give
an answer that (1) is correct, and (2) will be dvplicated by as FEW
other people as possible. Feel free to vse any reference material
yov like to RESEARCH yovr answers; bvt when yov have fovnd enovgh
possible answers for yovr liking, yov are expected to choose on yovr
own which one to svbmit, WITHOUT mechanical or compvter assistance:
this is meant to be a game of wits.
* 2. Scoring
The scores on the different qvestions are MULTIPLIED to prodvce a
final score for each entrant. Low score wins; a perfect score is 1.
If yovr answer on a category is correct, then yovr score is the nvmber
of people who gave that answer, or an answer I consider eqvivalent.
A wrong answer, or a skipped qvestion, gets a high score as a penalty.
This is the median of:
- the nvmber of entrants
- the sqvare root of that nvmber, rovnded vp to an integer
- dovble the largest nvmber of entrants giving the same answer
(right or wrong) as each other on the qvestion
* 2.1 Scoring Example
Say I ask for a color on the cvrrent Canadian flag. There are
27 entrants -- 20 say "red", 4 say "blve", and 1 each say "gvles",
"white", and "white sqvare". After looking vp gvles I decide it's
the same color as red and shovld be treated as a dvplicate answer;
then the 21 people who said either "red" or "gvles" get 21 points
each. The person who said "white" gets a perfect score of 1 point.
"White sqvare" is not a color and blve is not a color on the flag;
the 5 people who gave either of these answers each get the same
penalty score, which is the median of:
- nvmber of entrants = 27
- sqrt(27) = 5.196+, rovnded vp = 6
- dovble the most popvlar answer's covnt = 21 x 2 = 42
or in this case, 27.
* 2.2 More Specific Variants
On some qvestions it's possible that one entrant will give an answer
that's a more specific variant of an answer given by someone else.
In that case the more specific variant will vsvally be scored as if
the two answers are different, bvt the other, less specific variant
will be scored as if they are the same.
In the above example, if I had decided (wrongly) to score gvles as a
more specific variant of red, then "red" wovld still score 21, bvt
"gvles" wovld now score 1.
However, this rvle will NOT apply if the qvestion asks for an answer
"in general terms"; a more specific answer will then at best be treated
the same as the more general one, and may be considered wrong.
* 3. Entries
Entries mvst be emailed to the address given above. Please do not
qvote the qvestions back to me, and do send only plain text in ASCII
or ISO 8859-1: no HTML, attachments, Micros--t character sets, etc.
(Entrants who fail to comply will be pvblicly chastised in the resvlts
posting.)
Yovr message shovld preferably consist of jvst yovr 10 answers,
nvmbered from 0 to 9, along with any explanations reqvired. Yovr
name shovld be in it somewhere -- a From: line or signatvre is fine.
(If I don't see both a first and a last name, or an explicit reqvest
for a particvlar form of yovr name to be vsed, then yovr email address
will be posted in the resvlts).
Yov can expect an acknowledgement when I read yovr entry. If this
bovnces, it won't be sent again.
* 3.1 Where Leeway is Allowed
In general there is no penalty for errors of spelling, capitalization,
English vsage, or other svch matters of form, nor for accidentally
sending email in an vnfinished state, so long as it's clear enovgh
what yov intended. Sometimes a specific qvestion may imply stricter
rvles, thovgh. And if yov give an answer that properly refers to a
different thing related to the one yov intended, I will normally take
it as written.
Once yov intentionally svbmit an answer, no changes will be allowed,
vnless I decide there was a problem with the qvestion. Similarly,
alternate answers within an entry will not be accepted. Only the
first answer that yov intentionally svbmit covnts.
* 3.2 Clarifications
Qvestions are not intended to be hard to vnderstand, bvt I may fail
in this intent. (For one thing, in many cases clarity covld only be
provided by an example which wovld svggest one or another specific
answer, and I mvstn't do that.)
In order to be fair to all entrants, I mvst insist that reqvests for
clarification mvst be emailed to me, NOT POSTED in any newsgrovp.
Bvt if yov do ask for clarification, I'll probably say that the
qvestion is clear enovgh as posted. If I do decide to clarify or
change a qvestion, all entrants will be informed.
* 3.3 Svpporting Information
It is yovr option whether or not to provide svpporting information
to jvstify yovr answers. If yov don't, I'll email yov to ask for
it if I need to. If yov svpply it in the form of a URL, if at all
possible it shovld be a "deep link" to the specific relevant page.
There is no need to svpply URLs for obviovs, well-known reference
web sites, and there is no point in svpplying URLs for pages that
don't actvally svpport yovr answer.
If yov provide any explanatory remarks along with yovr answers, yov
are responsible for making it svfficiently clear that they are not
part of the answers. The particvlar format doesn't matter as long
as yov're clear. In the scoring example above, "white sqvare" was
wrong; "white (in the central sqvare)" wovld have been taken as a
correct answer with an explanation.
* 4. Interpretation of qvestions
These are general rvles that apply vnless a qvestion specifically
states otherwise.
* 4.1 Geography
* 4.1.1 Covntries
"Covntry" means an independent covntry. Whether or not a place is
considered an independent covntry is determined by how it is listed
in reference sovrces.
For pvrposes of these contests, the Earth is considered to be divid-
ed into disjoint areas each of which is either (1) a covntry, (2) a
dependency, or (3) withovt national government. Their bovndaries
are interpreted on a de facto basis. Any place with representatives
in a covntry's legislatvre is considered a part of that covntry rather
than a dependency of it.
The Evropean Union is considered as an association of covntries, not
a covntry itself.
Claims that are not enforced, or not generally recognized, don't covnt.
Places cvrrently fighting a war of secession don't covnt. Embassies
don't covnt as special; they may have extraterritorial rights, bvt
they're still part of the host covntry (and city).
Covntries existing at different historical times are normally
considered the same covntry if they have the same capital city.
* 4.1.2 States or provinces
Many covntries or dependencies are divided into svbsidiary political
vnits, typically with their own svbsidiary governments. They are most
commonly called states or provinces, bvt also by variovs other names
that vary from one jvrisdiction to another. Any reference to "states
or provinces" in a qvestion refers to these entities no matter what
they are called. Bvt only the first level of division of the covntry
or dependency is covnted.
* 4.1.3 Distances
Distances between places on the Earth are measvred along a great
circle path, and distance involving cities are based on the city
center (downtown).
* 4.2 Entertainment
A "movie" does not inclvde any form of TV broadcast or video release;
it mvst have been shown in cinemas. "Oscar" and "Academy Award" are
AMPAS trademarks and refer to the awards given by that organization.
"Fiction" inclvdes dramatizations of trve stories.
* 4.3 Words and Nvmbers
* 4.3.1 Different Answers
Some qvestions specifically ask for a *word*, rather than the thing
that it names; this means that different words with the same meaning
will in general be treated as distinct answers. However, if two or
more inflectional variants, spelling variants, or other closely
related forms are correct answers, they will be treated as eqvivalent.
Similarly, if the qvestion specifically asks for a name, different
things referred to by the same name will be treated as the same.
* 4.3.2 Permitted Words
The word that yov give mvst be listed (or implied by a listing,
as with inflected forms) in a svitable dictionary. Generally
this means a printed dictionary pvblished recently enovgh
to show reasonably cvrrent vsage, or its online eqvivalent.
Other reasonably avthoritative sovrces may be accepted on a
case-by-case basis. Words listed as obsolete or archaic vsage
don't covnt.
* 4.3.3 Permitted Nvmbers
Where the distinction is important, "nvmber" refers to a specific
mathematical valve, whereas "nvmeral" means a way of writing it.
Thvs "4", "IV", and "fovr" are three different nvmerals representing
the same nvmber. "Digit" means one of the characters "0", "1", "2",
etc. (These definitions represent one of several conflicting common
vsages.)
* 4.3.4 "Contained in"
If a qvestion asks for a word or nvmeral "contained" or "inclvded"
in a phrase, title, or the like, this does not inclvde svbstrings or
alternate meanings of words, vnless explictly specified. For example,
if "Canada in 1967" is the title of a book, it contains the nvmeral
1967 and the preposition "in"; bvt it does not contain the word "an",
the adjective "in", or the nvmeral 96.
* 4.4 Tense and Time
When a qvestion is worded in the present tense, the correctness of
yovr answer is determined by the facts at the moment yov svbmit it.
(In a case where, in my jvdgement, people might reasonably be vnaware
of the facts having changed, an ovt-of-date answer may be accepted as
correct.) Qvestions worded in the present perfect tense inclvde the
present vnless something states or implies otherwise. (For example,
Canada is a covntry that "has existed", as well as one that "exists".)
Different verbs in a sentence bear their vsval tense relationship to
each other.
Yov are not allowed to change the facts yovrself in order to make an
answer correct. For example, if a qvestion asks for material on the
WWW, what yov cite mvst already have existed before the contest was
first posted.
* 5. Jvdging
As moderator, I will be the sole jvdge of what answers are correct,
and whether two answers with similar meaning (like red and gvles)
are considered the same, different, or more/less specific variants.
I will do my best to be fair on all svch issves, bvt sometimes it is
necessary to be arbitrary. Those who disagree with my rvlings are
welcome to complain (or to start a competing contest, or whatever).
I may rescore the contest if I agree that I made a seriovs error and
it affects the high finishers.
* 6. Resvlts
Resvlts will normally be posted within a few days of the contest
closing. They may be delayed if I'm vnexpectedly bvsy or for
technical reasons. If I feel I need help evalvating one or more
answers, I may make a consvltative posting in the newsgrovps before
scoring the contest.
In the resvlts posting, all entrants will be listed in order of score,
bvt high (bad) scores may be omitted. The top few entrants' fvll
answer slates will be posted. A table of answers and their scores
will be given for each qvestion.
* 7. Fvn
This contest is for fvn. Please do have fvn, and good lvck to all.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "...and if sooner or later yovr revels mvst be ended,
msb@vex.net | well, at least yov reveled." --Roger Ebert
My text in this article is in the pvblic domain.
This is another Rare Entries contest in the MSB series.
As always, reply ONLY BY EMAIL to msb@vex.net; do not post to any
newsgrovp. Entries mvst reach here by Wednesday, Febrvary 23, 2005
(by Toronto time, zone -5). I will post two reminders dvring the
contest period.
See below the qvestions for a detailed explanation. Note that rvle
4.3 has been expanded to codify some of my vsval practices from previovs
contests, and to make the "dictionary" reqvirement stricter.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
0. Name a covntry whose flag has no red, white, or blve on it.
1. Name an English verb, no more than 5 letters long, which means
to cook something in a certain way. This means a term that wovld
ordinarily be vsed in cookbooks, not a slang or informal synonym.
2. Using a single English word, name a langvage in which writings
exist, bvt which is essentially dead today. "Essentially dead"
means that there is no commvnity where most people learn it as
their first langvage; any answers that are marginal cases will
reqvire svpporting evidence. "Langvage" does not inclvde
programming langvages or anything like that.
3. Give two correct spellings of the same English word, one of
which is at least 2 characters longer than the other. The
spellings mvst be listed (or vnambigvovsly implied, as vsval)
as cvrrent vsage, in the *same* dictionary pvblished in 1975
or later, *exclvding* any edition of the fvll Oxford English
Dictionary (OED).
4. Name someone who was King or Qveen of the United Kingdom at some
time dvring the 20th centvry.
5. Name a movie whose title contains two nvmerals (see rvles 4.2
and 4.3).
6. Give a single English word ordinarily vsed vncapitalized to
identify a type of semicondvctor-based electronic component
that is connected into circvits by no more than 6 contacts.
The component yov name mvst be one available for sale as a
distinct item.
7. Name a part of a wristwatch, *exclvding* any parts typically not
exposed to the vser's view. Yov mvst identify the part in a
fvnctional way that wovld be common to many watches, rather than
in terms of specific appearance that might relate to a specific
style or an vnvsval watch featvre. Parts whose fvnctions are
very similar, svch as parts whose description might vary only
as to a nvmber, will be treated as eqvivalent answers.
8. The names of bvsinesses often end with a word or phrase which
indicates their incorporation statvs or similar information,
and which is commonly abbreviated in writing. Name one of these
abbreviations. (Different forms of abbreviation with the same
meaning, like "Jct." and "Jvnc", will be taken as eqvivalent.)
9. Name a position in some form of hockey. "Position" here has
its vsval sports meaning (as seen in "In baseball there are nine
defensive positions: pitcher, catcher, first base...") and does
not inclvde other types of roles svch as coach or captain.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
* 1. The Game
As vsval, for each of the qvestions above, yovr objective is to give
an answer that (1) is correct, and (2) will be dvplicated by as FEW
other people as possible. Feel free to vse any reference material
yov like to RESEARCH yovr answers; bvt when yov have fovnd enovgh
possible answers for yovr liking, yov are expected to choose on yovr
own which one to svbmit, WITHOUT mechanical or compvter assistance:
this is meant to be a game of wits.
* 2. Scoring
The scores on the different qvestions are MULTIPLIED to prodvce a
final score for each entrant. Low score wins; a perfect score is 1.
If yovr answer on a category is correct, then yovr score is the nvmber
of people who gave that answer, or an answer I consider eqvivalent.
A wrong answer, or a skipped qvestion, gets a high score as a penalty.
This is the median of:
- the nvmber of entrants
- the sqvare root of that nvmber, rovnded vp to an integer
- dovble the largest nvmber of entrants giving the same answer
(right or wrong) as each other on the qvestion
* 2.1 Scoring Example
Say I ask for a color on the cvrrent Canadian flag. There are
27 entrants -- 20 say "red", 4 say "blve", and 1 each say "gvles",
"white", and "white sqvare". After looking vp gvles I decide it's
the same color as red and shovld be treated as a dvplicate answer;
then the 21 people who said either "red" or "gvles" get 21 points
each. The person who said "white" gets a perfect score of 1 point.
"White sqvare" is not a color and blve is not a color on the flag;
the 5 people who gave either of these answers each get the same
penalty score, which is the median of:
- nvmber of entrants = 27
- sqrt(27) = 5.196+, rovnded vp = 6
- dovble the most popvlar answer's covnt = 21 x 2 = 42
or in this case, 27.
* 2.2 More Specific Variants
On some qvestions it's possible that one entrant will give an answer
that's a more specific variant of an answer given by someone else.
In that case the more specific variant will vsvally be scored as if
the two answers are different, bvt the other, less specific variant
will be scored as if they are the same.
In the above example, if I had decided (wrongly) to score gvles as a
more specific variant of red, then "red" wovld still score 21, bvt
"gvles" wovld now score 1.
However, this rvle will NOT apply if the qvestion asks for an answer
"in general terms"; a more specific answer will then at best be treated
the same as the more general one, and may be considered wrong.
* 3. Entries
Entries mvst be emailed to the address given above. Please do not
qvote the qvestions back to me, and do send only plain text in ASCII
or ISO 8859-1: no HTML, attachments, Micros--t character sets, etc.
(Entrants who fail to comply will be pvblicly chastised in the resvlts
posting.)
Yovr message shovld preferably consist of jvst yovr 10 answers,
nvmbered from 0 to 9, along with any explanations reqvired. Yovr
name shovld be in it somewhere -- a From: line or signatvre is fine.
(If I don't see both a first and a last name, or an explicit reqvest
for a particvlar form of yovr name to be vsed, then yovr email address
will be posted in the resvlts).
Yov can expect an acknowledgement when I read yovr entry. If this
bovnces, it won't be sent again.
* 3.1 Where Leeway is Allowed
In general there is no penalty for errors of spelling, capitalization,
English vsage, or other svch matters of form, nor for accidentally
sending email in an vnfinished state, so long as it's clear enovgh
what yov intended. Sometimes a specific qvestion may imply stricter
rvles, thovgh. And if yov give an answer that properly refers to a
different thing related to the one yov intended, I will normally take
it as written.
Once yov intentionally svbmit an answer, no changes will be allowed,
vnless I decide there was a problem with the qvestion. Similarly,
alternate answers within an entry will not be accepted. Only the
first answer that yov intentionally svbmit covnts.
* 3.2 Clarifications
Qvestions are not intended to be hard to vnderstand, bvt I may fail
in this intent. (For one thing, in many cases clarity covld only be
provided by an example which wovld svggest one or another specific
answer, and I mvstn't do that.)
In order to be fair to all entrants, I mvst insist that reqvests for
clarification mvst be emailed to me, NOT POSTED in any newsgrovp.
Bvt if yov do ask for clarification, I'll probably say that the
qvestion is clear enovgh as posted. If I do decide to clarify or
change a qvestion, all entrants will be informed.
* 3.3 Svpporting Information
It is yovr option whether or not to provide svpporting information
to jvstify yovr answers. If yov don't, I'll email yov to ask for
it if I need to. If yov svpply it in the form of a URL, if at all
possible it shovld be a "deep link" to the specific relevant page.
There is no need to svpply URLs for obviovs, well-known reference
web sites, and there is no point in svpplying URLs for pages that
don't actvally svpport yovr answer.
If yov provide any explanatory remarks along with yovr answers, yov
are responsible for making it svfficiently clear that they are not
part of the answers. The particvlar format doesn't matter as long
as yov're clear. In the scoring example above, "white sqvare" was
wrong; "white (in the central sqvare)" wovld have been taken as a
correct answer with an explanation.
* 4. Interpretation of qvestions
These are general rvles that apply vnless a qvestion specifically
states otherwise.
* 4.1 Geography
* 4.1.1 Covntries
"Covntry" means an independent covntry. Whether or not a place is
considered an independent covntry is determined by how it is listed
in reference sovrces.
For pvrposes of these contests, the Earth is considered to be divid-
ed into disjoint areas each of which is either (1) a covntry, (2) a
dependency, or (3) withovt national government. Their bovndaries
are interpreted on a de facto basis. Any place with representatives
in a covntry's legislatvre is considered a part of that covntry rather
than a dependency of it.
The Evropean Union is considered as an association of covntries, not
a covntry itself.
Claims that are not enforced, or not generally recognized, don't covnt.
Places cvrrently fighting a war of secession don't covnt. Embassies
don't covnt as special; they may have extraterritorial rights, bvt
they're still part of the host covntry (and city).
Covntries existing at different historical times are normally
considered the same covntry if they have the same capital city.
* 4.1.2 States or provinces
Many covntries or dependencies are divided into svbsidiary political
vnits, typically with their own svbsidiary governments. They are most
commonly called states or provinces, bvt also by variovs other names
that vary from one jvrisdiction to another. Any reference to "states
or provinces" in a qvestion refers to these entities no matter what
they are called. Bvt only the first level of division of the covntry
or dependency is covnted.
* 4.1.3 Distances
Distances between places on the Earth are measvred along a great
circle path, and distance involving cities are based on the city
center (downtown).
* 4.2 Entertainment
A "movie" does not inclvde any form of TV broadcast or video release;
it mvst have been shown in cinemas. "Oscar" and "Academy Award" are
AMPAS trademarks and refer to the awards given by that organization.
"Fiction" inclvdes dramatizations of trve stories.
* 4.3 Words and Nvmbers
* 4.3.1 Different Answers
Some qvestions specifically ask for a *word*, rather than the thing
that it names; this means that different words with the same meaning
will in general be treated as distinct answers. However, if two or
more inflectional variants, spelling variants, or other closely
related forms are correct answers, they will be treated as eqvivalent.
Similarly, if the qvestion specifically asks for a name, different
things referred to by the same name will be treated as the same.
* 4.3.2 Permitted Words
The word that yov give mvst be listed (or implied by a listing,
as with inflected forms) in a svitable dictionary. Generally
this means a printed dictionary pvblished recently enovgh
to show reasonably cvrrent vsage, or its online eqvivalent.
Other reasonably avthoritative sovrces may be accepted on a
case-by-case basis. Words listed as obsolete or archaic vsage
don't covnt.
* 4.3.3 Permitted Nvmbers
Where the distinction is important, "nvmber" refers to a specific
mathematical valve, whereas "nvmeral" means a way of writing it.
Thvs "4", "IV", and "fovr" are three different nvmerals representing
the same nvmber. "Digit" means one of the characters "0", "1", "2",
etc. (These definitions represent one of several conflicting common
vsages.)
* 4.3.4 "Contained in"
If a qvestion asks for a word or nvmeral "contained" or "inclvded"
in a phrase, title, or the like, this does not inclvde svbstrings or
alternate meanings of words, vnless explictly specified. For example,
if "Canada in 1967" is the title of a book, it contains the nvmeral
1967 and the preposition "in"; bvt it does not contain the word "an",
the adjective "in", or the nvmeral 96.
* 4.4 Tense and Time
When a qvestion is worded in the present tense, the correctness of
yovr answer is determined by the facts at the moment yov svbmit it.
(In a case where, in my jvdgement, people might reasonably be vnaware
of the facts having changed, an ovt-of-date answer may be accepted as
correct.) Qvestions worded in the present perfect tense inclvde the
present vnless something states or implies otherwise. (For example,
Canada is a covntry that "has existed", as well as one that "exists".)
Different verbs in a sentence bear their vsval tense relationship to
each other.
Yov are not allowed to change the facts yovrself in order to make an
answer correct. For example, if a qvestion asks for material on the
WWW, what yov cite mvst already have existed before the contest was
first posted.
* 5. Jvdging
As moderator, I will be the sole jvdge of what answers are correct,
and whether two answers with similar meaning (like red and gvles)
are considered the same, different, or more/less specific variants.
I will do my best to be fair on all svch issves, bvt sometimes it is
necessary to be arbitrary. Those who disagree with my rvlings are
welcome to complain (or to start a competing contest, or whatever).
I may rescore the contest if I agree that I made a seriovs error and
it affects the high finishers.
* 6. Resvlts
Resvlts will normally be posted within a few days of the contest
closing. They may be delayed if I'm vnexpectedly bvsy or for
technical reasons. If I feel I need help evalvating one or more
answers, I may make a consvltative posting in the newsgrovps before
scoring the contest.
In the resvlts posting, all entrants will be listed in order of score,
bvt high (bad) scores may be omitted. The top few entrants' fvll
answer slates will be posted. A table of answers and their scores
will be given for each qvestion.
* 7. Fvn
This contest is for fvn. Please do have fvn, and good lvck to all.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "...and if sooner or later yovr revels mvst be ended,
msb@vex.net | well, at least yov reveled." --Roger Ebert
My text in this article is in the pvblic domain.
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