HL2 ABSOLUTE REAL DEAL!!!1

[Icedout]

I have seen so many people slamming the FX cards it's unreal and I have seen so many people slamming the ATI cards its unreal.

Heres the points.

1. There demos so not everything is final
2. Yes HL2 runs better with ATI than FX
3. Yes Doom 3 runs better with FX than ATI
4. In each instance both software companys worked in conjunction with the video companys
5. I have seen the flash footage of the aquamarks demo where in fact the image quality does indeed go down.

BUT HERE IS MY POINT.

How many of you being the hardcore gamers that you are were playing your last game that you knew suffered quality loss due to improper chipsets or drivers on the video card. But how many of you during your last game stopped dead in the middle of a fast paced, attention based twitching your mouse around clicking buttons, hitting keys franticly and said holy [-peep-] did you see that guy I just shot in the face and blew his brains out the texture detail was crappy what a freaking waste of a bullet, or just got tone with missle lock let loose and said ah damit the trail of the missle smoke sucked I need a different video card. Benchmarks are as THG has stated just there to influence the public so therefore the video card companys are going to go for the higher marks. In which most of us make are decisions in buying these cards.

Truth is the most significant visual aid you notice in a game right away is the resolution setting and in everycase Ive seen the top ATI cards and FX cards do just fine.

For those of you that say I can't enjoy the game because I can't increase the AA or ANT rates. Your full of it, or you need a life. Lets not try to make fun of anybodys cards we all have what we want depending on our budgets so lets enjoy it.

Wait for the games wait for the action to start and then after you have played them and it looks like your in slow motion then complain. They said nutra sweet caused cancer in lab rats when it came out, how many of you know anybody that stopped eating it when they heard that.

Get real, have fun gaming and wait for it to conclude itself.

LIFE IS LIKE A BOLT OF LIGHTNING...UNLESS YOU MAKE AN IMPACT YOU WON'T BE NOTICED

 

[RRAMJET]

I agree 100%, i think 90% of all this video card, and cpu jargon is just nonsense. Ok now i'm not running a 9800 or a 5900 but i'll tell you what i think. The only difference between my mx400 gf2 and my fx5600 is the resolution i can play games at. I was expecting a big difference as all the reviews go on and on about, but really in the middle of battle there was none. I really believe that unless you need to run at a highr resolution an upgrade is a waste of money, thats why i never spend more than about 100 US on a vid card. The same applies for cpus. I'll tell anyone the biggest improvement you will see in gaming is in a better monitor, and thats a fact jack... And i bet when HL2 comes out you would have trouble picking the nvidia over the Ati if you didn't know what card was in what machine. See these benchmarking crap is all about fuelling the debate so as everyone will think, "gee i need to upgrade to that next card " and so on. So basically its all a load of crap, likes i've said before was the 166mmx noticably different to the 166 non mmx. Can ya remember. and so thats my point its 99% marketing.. Dollars, its all about dollars boys, if 1000 of you go and pay 500 buck for that new card this week the cash flows in...

If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!

 

[ufo_warviper]

It's not a load of crap. Nvidia really did have a poor design on their Pixelshaders. It's affected Tombraider, and now its affecting Half-Life 2. It will probably affect other DX9 games as well. The new drivers are resorting to sacrificing image quality for better framerates. The FX ownders are going to HATE this, but its the only way in H3ll that they will have the new games at least playable. Playability comes at a MUCH higher priority than image quality,but having decent image quality is VERY important as well.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

 

[lord_tyranus2]

Agreed. Its not crap, if you are going to spend hundreds of dollars on a card, why not make it the right one?

 

[ufo_warviper]

Thankyou Lord_tyranus2.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

 

[RRAMJET]

Yes ok but is the difference going to be noticable when we load up the released game and settle in for some action. Maybe , maybe not. Gee i can't tell the difference with AA and AF on and off, then again it may be the games i'm playing. I'll give an example of what my point is. I paid about $90US for my gf2, at the time the gf3 had just been released and it retailed for about $400US here in Oz. Now i just couldn't imagine what sort of performance i would get for that money, i would have expected fireworks and balloons and all sorts of goodies. But after getting the fx5600, which is supposed to be on par with the Gf3, iam a little dissapointed, not so much in the frame rates and resolution i can play at, but in the image quality. Its not bad its just not what i expected compared to the gf2. Now i've learnt that the real difference is in the resolutions games can be run at, not the eye candy that we hear so much about. So i expected to much, but i know now what to expect from the top range cards. My point being i'm glad i didn't pay all that cash for the gf3 back at the begginning of last year. So all this makes me thinks, are we going to notice this problem nvidia has, or has it been inflated to serve another means? I suppose we will soon find out.

If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!

 

[ufo_warviper]

I understand what your getting at now. I saw a DX8, DX8.1, and DX9 photograph of a DX9game (I think HL2). ALl the photos looked great. The only major differences I could realky see was the water reflective quality. I could live with the image quality of either one of those. Like I said above, I do place a higher priority on framerate (especially when it comes to playablility or not playable) than I have on the Image quality of the game. I hacked up the WickedGL drivers on my Voodoo2 card to play Jedi Outcast and it ran fine on the "Fast" setting. No, it wasn't pretty, but the gameplay was still enjoyable just because of the storyline and other elements not relating to graphical beauty. Beautiful Graphics is a nice luxury to have though. By the way what game did you compare the Image quality of the GF2 MX400 and the FX5600 Ultra. IF you used Quake 3 your probably not going to notice anything different because Quake 3 only uses DirectX 7 technology.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

 

[RRAMJET]

double post

If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by rramjet on 09/14/03 01:10 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[RRAMJET]

Black Hawk Down, the demo single player version. Ghost recon, SOF 2, Freelancer, and Devastation. Least noticable was prob Black Hawk and most noticable difference was prob. Freelancer. But this is only my judgement, no benchmarks or anything.

If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!

 

[ufo_warviper]

Freelancer(I might be thinking Splinter Cell) should be the most noticeable because it uses a brand new Graphics engine. But some of the others that are less technologically advanced engines, I can see where the difference in IQ would probably not be as noticeable. But then again, I have no hands-on experience with any of these games.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

 

[Willamette_sucks]

rramjet your opinion counts as squat, and to the new guy... Some people have to drive a pimpin car, others are fine with a junker. Some people have to wear Armani suits, others are happy in blue jeans and a t-shirt. Some people only eat at fancy restaurants, others like fast food. This is about preference, noone here needs to get a life when they complain about visual quality. I did not shell out 1500 dollars for my computer to look at crap. I want to go "WOW!", because thats what I paid for. I DO care about the games, and visual stimulation is not the only reason I play them, but I sure as hell want some high quality visuals.

Next time have a better reason to become a member of a forum.

"Mice eat cheese." - Modest Mouse

"Every Day is the Right Day." -Pink Floyd

 

[ufo_warviper]

What do you have on your rig Williamette?

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

 

[RRAMJET]

Willamettes mum spanked his bottom for than post. This guy obviously has no clue to what he is talking about, yet he persists to attempt some contribution to these forums, which sadly come up short of the full quid. I say inbreeds such as willy should have an astrix next to their name as so we can distinguish them from the rest of us who have half an ounce of intelligence. Now i'm going out to the opera so toddles, in yal language.

If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!

 

[ufo_warviper]

Williamette Contributes. He often brings up very worthwhile points in his debates that I've had with him. I really enjoy Williamette's company. I guess we all can't get along :frown:

BTW, rramjet have you made up your mind what you'll do with the Duron system. If you need anymore help you can post it here or in your other thread, or maybe even PM me.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

 

[RRAMJET]

Yea i've never spoken to him before, i just thought i'd give him a roasting. But yea my duron system is doing alright, i need to do some research into networking my two systems. They both have network cards installed but i've been a bit lazy and have been waiting for by broadband to get connected. If you have any tips, like the basics feel free to give me some advice as i'm pretty slack when it comes do the technical side of stuff.

If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!

 

[ufo_warviper]

SURE, no prob, I'll give you help in a couple of days, or whenever my I'm freed from my workload and you on too. I have been avoiding my homework and reading this weekend so I need to get that done tommorrow.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

 

[RRAMJET]

cool, cheers.

If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!

 

[Icedout]

quit your whining mouse boy I have ran every game including splinter cell, black hawk down, etc etc etc... at res max and this so called eye candy and I have no problems whatsover and I paid a 150 more total for my pc so either learn to make better buying decisions or shutup

LIFE IS LIKE A BOLT OF LIGHTNING...UNLESS YOU MAKE AN IMPACT YOU WON'T BE NOTICED

 

[lord_tyranus2]

keep in mind that the benefit of that new 9800 pro over your old card may not be noticable now (esp if you play frozen throne, that game has like 0 requirements) but a year or 2 down the line, the 9800 pro will be getting say 30-40 fps in games while your other card gets 20-30. that's when it makes a difference. As for the 9800 vs 5900 argument:

I agree that resolution is the main component, I'd rather run higher res without AA and AF.

But, looking at the halflife benchmarks, my guess is we could run ATI 1600x1200 and get the same framerate as FX 1024x768. Isn't that not a huge difference, even for those of us without sharp eyes?

 

[Icedout]

Thats an excellent question.

I just ran splinter cell between the two resolutions and didnt notice anything and the same with gunmetal, both ran smooth as glass but I did not see anything that made me say oh cool never saw that before and splinter cell is is slow paced to where you can notice textures on the bars the bricks computer desk keyboards etc..

But like I said in my main post, if that becomes the case then nvidia will lose ground in the market and people will go ati. As for ATI I think its an awesome card I debated between the two and If i made the wrong choice when the time comes to find out, then oh well I go ATI.

I agree some people cant afford to post 400 bucks for a card and then find out its not going to carry them for another two years but you can't guess when new technolgy will unfold and prove you wrong plus you have place like THG and Anandtech and many others that were pushing the fx on the public People bought them on benchmarks and they will buy ati now based on a benchmark hence my point from the first post Yes ATI makes a good solid card right now. but Nvidia will learn no doubt what happens when you lie to People. nv40 is looking at speed up to 1500mhz on the memory that samsung has started making for video companys and now 8x2 pipelines rather than 4x2 and ati is going for 12x1 pipelines rather than 8x1 as well as faster chip speeds. So once again people will follow these websites into the fog to clear out which is better.

As for someone not having something to contribute. How about common sense rather than trying to flash your ego around because it gives you headaches when you think about it. (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE)

LIFE IS LIKE A BOLT OF LIGHTNING...UNLESS YOU MAKE AN IMPACT YOU WON'T BE NOTICED

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

I was gonna ignore you 'cause you're obviously mentally challenged (as demonstrated by your initial rant), but now you're just adding to it with you BS last post.

Oh you've played EVERY GAME, Eh? Yeah BS. Hyperbole I'm sure but simply padding your ignorance. Oooh Splinter Cell plays fine, so what? It's a Creeper game, High FPS is NOT needed. Sure you could get by on the ~30FPS that 16X12 with MAX AF and features provides. Why? Because it's slow moving, with very little scenery movement as well. Playing an FPS at MAX and getting ~30 FPS is going to get you dead. Now if you COULD have that kind of detail with 60+ FPS then that would be better. There are monitors out there that push ALOT of pixels at high speed. I have a P260 at work (GW, I 'swapped' the P202 with a co-worker ), and it pushes 1920x1440 at 75hz. I want that kind of resolution and I want it SMOOTH with every bit of Eye candy I can get. The whole point is GIMME ALL I CAN GET, If it ain't phot-realistic yet, then they've got work to do! If we pay top dollar, then we expect at the very least to get the features they used to sell this stuff to us. Can anyone say PS 2.0+?

<font color=blue>I paid a 150 more total for my pc so either learn to make better buying decisions or shutup</font color=blue>

How does paying 150 bucks more for your rig indicate you make 'better buying decisions'? It would tend to indicate the opposite, and that you're a Dumba$$ who overpayed! The fact that you don't appreciate better visuals means that that $150 likely would have been better spent on some glasses. Seriously that statement is Bogus, especially since you can't back it up. So why don't you STFU!

Now let's get back to your original post, cause there's more than enough to cover there.

<font color=blue>3. Yes Doom 3 runs better with FX than ATI
4. In each instance both software companys worked in conjunction with the video companys</font color=blue>

Actually for that benchmark ATI was even more out in the cold than nV was this time around. At least Valve TRIED to show that the game was playable on nV products, whereas the surprise 'D]|[-benchmark' just appeared, and only in the nV specific code path (which surprisingly enough benifited nV). So don't talk BS!

<font color=blue>For those of you that say I can't enjoy the game because I can't increase the AA or ANT rates. Your full of it, or you need a life.</font color=blue>

And who the H3LL are you to JUDGE? If people LIKE the way things look with AA/AF enabled then who gives a Ratz-A$$ what you think! I think it's nice to have and on my next TV (a Big Screen with DVI or at least VGA connector) it may be the only option I have to improve visuals. As for the life statement, I have to agree with WS, I don't find you a roll model in that respect.

<font color=blue>Wait for the games wait for the action to start and then after you have played them and it looks like your in slow motion then complain. </font color=blue>

I agree with this somewhat except alot of people are on the clock as to when they can return their cards if it does turn out to be a bad decision. Should they postpone that decision for something that Valve indicates (with alot of supporting evidence) cannot be fixed without major sacrifices? Why should people not bitch about misleading statements by nV and fl-optimizations at their expense? I'd say wait 'til the games come out before you buy a card to play it, however some of these people bought their new cards to play UT2K3, EliteForces, PlanetSide, etc., and are now having serious second thoughts as they were hoping for SOME kind of 'future-proofing' in their big $ outlay. And it's not just the HL2 bench that is showing these issues, the WombRaider, err TomRaider demo shows similar issues. This is just the straw that broke the camels back.

<font color=blue>They said nutra sweet caused cancer in lab rats when it came out, how many of you know anybody that stopped eating it when they heard that.</font color=blue>

Giant leap here, and I have no idea how that relates to Graphics (other than over-reaction [which the HL2 reaction obviously isn't]), but since you bring it up I know people who have major issues with Aspartame (I had to edit out examples , just to long in what is already a long post). There are also those who don't like GMO, MSG, etc.

<font color=blue>Get real, have fun gaming and wait for it to conclude itself</font color=blue>

And how is it going to magically conclude itself? Is it concluded now with UT2K3? People want to have fun, but if they are going to get hooped by nV's PR, then they definitely won't have fun in the future. And discussion like this help people Get Over It. Because many nV owners are VERY pissed and think HL2 is going to be unplayable, well it won't be, even if there is no DET/DX upgrades. It just appears it won't be as smooth as with ATI gear. However that's a valid concern for people who either just bought a card or are planning on buying one. The benchmarks are there, they seem very accurate, and it's up to nV to appease their customers. So until that happens none of those people can RELAX. Perhaps the threa of a nice Class-Action lawsuit would change nV's tune about some of their consumer's concerns, they seem to respond well to lawyers (at least they like to use them).

And now for you biggest load of crap of the night.

<font color=blue>But how many of you during your last game stopped dead in the middle of a fast paced.. [edit] ..I need a different video card.</font color=blue>

Well, most gamers have experienced ALOT of moments like this. My most recent one's were with Morrwind and Hitman2. In both games I said, DAMN, I bet this would be smoother on a better card (and so I got one). Morrowind especially, after looking at someone else's setup with a faster card with everything maxed you go, Geez that's nice, wish I could do that! Yeah wanna play a game that will make you say 'Hmm bet this would play beter with both a next gen GPU and next-gen CPU, then play Morrowind at MAX settings, Yeah you'll notice ALOT of things, remember to enable TureForm (through patch only) to see AWESOME visuals, NOT related to resolution.
Usually gamers don't experience what you are describing, because there is usually nothing better to jusdge against (if you run top of the line stuff). Howveer for anyone who is a gamer and watches other play the next-gen hardware while you still ponder it, suddenly you say, 'Geez I bet this would look alot nicer (like BOB's) If I poped oneof those new cards in my rig, and it would likely help my OTHER games too'. Those sliders that come in games, ALSO make most people think, gee I wonder if I can touch that thingy? Ah nope it kills my FPS, or even worse, it's Greyed-out.

And about your first statement;

<font color=blue>1. There demos so not everything is final</font color=blue>

Actually the results are in, they did poorly in those demos. Yeah that may mean the game might play differently, but it definitely indicates something is amiss! The difference is that unlike all the other benchmarks nd tests before that eluded to this problem, THIS benchmark actually worries people the most and has the biggest impact because it IS associated with one of the most highly anticipated games in recent history, tied only with D]|[ (except in some people like WS's mind [although I agree gameplay is likely better in HL2]). The benchmark may not be a predictor of final HL2 performance, but it is another clear warning sign that something is going on with nV's hardware. Unless you can prove otherwise.

<font color=blue>LIFE IS LIKE A BOLT OF LIGHTNING...UNLESS YOU MAKE AN IMPACT YOU WON'T BE NOTICED</font color=blue>

And you thought you'd leave your mark by being an arrogant JackA$$, well at least I now know WHY you did it.

Before you lecture the unwashed masses about their ignorance, try and enlighten yourself about the subject first.

Now, I'll leave you to WS's inevitable response.


And to the forum residents, Sorry for another long post guys.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK

 

[Willamette_sucks]

I think you 'bout covered it there, Grape

"Mice eat cheese." - Modest Mouse

"Every Day is the Right Day." -Pink Floyd

 

[lord_tyranus2]

After going back and actually reading the thread, I feel I was a bit too kind.

"But how many of you during your last game stopped dead in the middle of a fast paced.. [edit] ..I need a different video card."

Wow. Currently running my Radeon 9200 SE (why, oh why I bought that card, even for $40, I don't know), and UT2K3, Antalus is unplayable at anything over 800*600.

"And you thought you'd leave your mark by being an arrogant JackA$$, well at least I now know WHY you did it."

I don't know about arrogant jacka$$, but he certainly is foolish. But I suppose its his money to waste. Watch him come crying a few months later with his poor 5900.

 

[scottchen]

I really do hate nvIDIOTs.

-Intel PIV 2.4C @ 3.84G -Asus P4P800 -OCZ Gold 2x256 3700EL memory @ 256mhz 2.5-3-3-7 -Sapphire 9800pro @ 490/780 -SB audigy -80G Maxtor Diamond Plus9 Ultra ATA-133 hdd -450 Enermax PSU

 

[scottchen]

NEW guy, since you don't know anybody here, how do you know if somebody hasn't contributed anything. People here help eachother, hell I even earned money from overclocking, and how did i know how to overclock? the people on these forums told me how. If you are just looking for a fight somewhere, then piss the F*** off, because if you're just trying to piss everybody off, you're not welcome. Leave before I *** *** your ******* nose and ***** it up your ***

-Intel PIV 2.4C @ 3.84G -Asus P4P800 -OCZ Gold 2x256 3700EL memory @ 256mhz 2.5-3-3-7 -Sapphire 9800pro @ 490/780 -SB audigy -80G Maxtor Diamond Plus9 Ultra ATA-133 hdd -450 Enermax PSU