3D glasses alignment???

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.vectrex (More info?)

Might my Vec be out of alignment or something?

I got my 3D glasses today! (Fast! Thanx!)

Plugged them in, there was a definate strobe effect. Both lenses! (Seems
to be working!)

OK, load my SK cart, pull up 3D Minestorm.. Seemed a bit off at first (a
little double imaging), but I'm thinking maybe it's me, and as the game was
playing it seemed better...

OK..

Try Crazy Coaster 3D... I definately see 2 tracks at the bottom of the
screen. As the track moves up towards the top of the screen, it becomes 1
track with depth.. Hmmm

Then I try Narrow Excape.. Really bad double images again...

Is there someway I can test/adjust something to see if my alignment is
off???

Or do those games just look like that with the 3D glasses?? Are my eyes
just not good for 3D?
(I had an XSpecs for my Amiga ages ago that was great, but maybe I'm getting
old??)

Thanx,

desiv

 

[ocelot]

Archived from groups: rec.games.vectrex (More info?)

"desiv" <villaesc@comcast.not> wrote in message news:<-qSdnake7o36oD3dRVn-tw@comcast.com>...
> Might my Vec be out of alignment or something?
>
> I got my 3D glasses today! (Fast! Thanx!)
>
> Plugged them in, there was a definate strobe effect. Both lenses! (Seems
> to be working!)
>
> OK, load my SK cart, pull up 3D Minestorm.. Seemed a bit off at first (a
> little double imaging), but I'm thinking maybe it's me, and as the game was
> playing it seemed better...
>
> OK..
>
> Try Crazy Coaster 3D... I definately see 2 tracks at the bottom of the
> screen. As the track moves up towards the top of the screen, it becomes 1
> track with depth.. Hmmm
>
> Then I try Narrow Excape.. Really bad double images again...
>
> Is there someway I can test/adjust something to see if my alignment is
> off???
>
> Or do those games just look like that with the 3D glasses?? Are my eyes
> just not good for 3D?
> (I had an XSpecs for my Amiga ages ago that was great, but maybe I'm getting
> old??)

The double images do occur with the real imager, though the effect is
lessed in the real imager by the addition of colour. Basically, it
helps your eyes focus on the real images and ignore the ghosts.

I can make two suggestions to alleviate this problem with Kev's
adapter:

1) Sit as far away from the Vectrex screen as you comfortably can.
The longer focal distance will help your eyes lock onto the images and
resolve them as being '3D'. Basically your eyes have to move less
(and thus strain less) to accomodate the dual images, which is the
same suggestion they give people who have difficulty viewing the
'Seeing Eye'-type puzzles.

2) Put a solid colour overlay on the screen, preferably into the lower
(red-orange) end of the spectrum. I'm not entirely sure why this
works, but I suspect it has to do with the way human colour vision
works. Your eyes are about 100x more sensitive to B&W images than
colour (which is why you only have limied B&W vision in the dark or
moonlight), so your eyes will tend to focus on B&W vectors and the 3D
effect is lost when there are conflicting ghost images. Adding the
overlay allows your eyes/brain to ignore the extraneous infomration
and concentrate on the images they're supposed to.

Narrow Escape may be more of a problem for ghosting becuase it's
virtual 3D realm is far 'deeper' into the vectrex screen than the
other two games, meaning that the dual images have to be more
horizontally separated (and more work for your eyes to resolve it into
a single image). Unfortunately NE has the same problem on the real
imager. :-(

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.vectrex (More info?)

When I use the 3D Imager, I see all the double images that you describe with
Crazy Coaster and Narrow Escape. That said, 3D Minestorm is actually one of my
favorite games on the system. That one works well for me.

>maybe I'm getting
>old??)

I got my 3D Imager in '83, and I saw the same double images then, that I see
now.

George

 

[kev]

Archived from groups: rec.games.vectrex (More info?)

"desiv" <villaesc@comcast.not> wrote in
news:-qSdnake7o36oD3dRVn-tw@comcast.com:

> Might my Vec be out of alignment or something?
>
> I got my 3D glasses today! (Fast! Thanx!)
>
> Plugged them in, there was a definate strobe effect. Both lenses!
> (Seems to be working!)
>
> OK, load my SK cart, pull up 3D Minestorm.. Seemed a bit off at first
> (a little double imaging), but I'm thinking maybe it's me, and as the
> game was playing it seemed better...
>
> Try Crazy Coaster 3D... I definately see 2 tracks at the bottom of
> the screen. As the track moves up towards the top of the screen, it
> becomes 1 track with depth.. Hmmm
>
> Then I try Narrow Excape.. Really bad double images again...

Yeah, this is because the LCD glasses don't block 100% of the light.
Even so, if you relax your eyes and try various distances away from the
console, you'll tend to see the effect.

At first I could see the double images (well I still can) but the trick
is to not focus on them. Some of it is due to the glasses, but alot of
it is due to the phosphor persistance of the screen, too. AFAIK real
imagers have this problem to some extent due to this (the real imager
blocks 100% of the light, but it can't do anything about the phosphor).

 

[ocelot]

Archived from groups: rec.games.vectrex (More info?)

Kev <no@spamplz.kthx> wrote in message news:<Xns94E623460E30nospamplzkthx@65.24.7.50>...
> "desiv" <villaesc@comcast.not> wrote in
> news:-qSdnake7o36oD3dRVn-tw@comcast.com:
>

> > Then I try Narrow Excape.. Really bad double images again...
>
> Yeah, this is because the LCD glasses don't block 100% of the light.
> Even so, if you relax your eyes and try various distances away from the
> console, you'll tend to see the effect.
>
> At first I could see the double images (well I still can) but the trick
> is to not focus on them. Some of it is due to the glasses, but alot of
> it is due to the phosphor persistance of the screen, too. AFAIK real
> imagers have this problem to some extent due to this (the real imager
> blocks 100% of the light, but it can't do anything about the phosphor).

The real imager has ghosting problems with the rotating disk because
there will always be a point in the rotation of the disk where both
eyes can see the screen. I'm sure the original designers were aware
of the problem and programmed the games to be displaying nothing
during those times. You're right about the phosphor persistance
playing a part in it though. I'm sure this effect varies between
vectrexes and changes as the vectrex ages.

Incidentally I tried out my own suggestion of using an overlay and it
works quite well. I have to do some minor focusing on the track in
Crazy Coaster when it starts but I never 'lose' the single image once
I start playing. The tiny mines far in the background in Minestorm 3D
dont seem to be much of a problem either.

Narrow Escape is ok, but I think the game has some fundamental design
problems -- namely the 3D is too 'deep' for its own good. You can
either focus on your ship or on the objects in the background but not
both at the same time. The lens in your eye is not able to accomodate
two levels of focus (even though the background objects are
technically a virtual focus).

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.vectrex (More info?)

Well, I did something I rarely do...

I took someone's advice.. Your's and tried both of those things..

I sat back quite a bit (Well, still using the original Vec pad, so not too
far back.. and used my only overlay..

The Protector Overlay..

and....

WOW!!!!

Not only was Crazy Coaster much better, but Narrow Escape is even GREAT!!!!

I can still notice the doubles if I try, but it's not distracting and I can
lose them pretty easily!!!

I still haven't figured out if I'm bad at Crazy Coaster (high possibility)
or I just haven't figured it out yet (also high.. .

But I think I prefer the 3D in Narrow Escape!!

(Minestorm 3D is still the most playable in 3D! Great game!!!)

Quick question: Have I missed any? Or is it just the 3 games for now?

You know, a RAM Cart with a co-processor might make more 3D games much more
feasible??

(I see a problem with Battlezone 3D already tho.. 2 controllers OR 3D, not
both.. Can't believe I'm complaining about a homebrew that doesn't exist..


Thanx Kev and Ocelot and everyone else!!!!

desiv