Need two Vectrex units for experiments

Archived from groups: rec.games.vectrex (More info?)

Hello, all. I haven't posted here in quite some time.

I need two Vectrex units for experiments. After use, they will be sold on ebay
and the results written up.

I am on a budget. I am willing to share some financial information with
prospective donators.


Yours,

Doug Goncz ( ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz/incoming )
Student member SAE for one year.
I love: Dona, Jeff, Kim, Mom, Neelix, Tasha, and Teri, alphabetically.
I drive: A double-step Thunderbolt with 657% range.
14 answers Last reply
More about need vectrex units experiments
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.vectrex (More info?)

    >I need two Vectrex units for experiments

    What sort of experiments ?


    Richard H.
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.vectrex (More info?)

    Dear Richard,

    Quoting your post to rec.games.vectrex:

    >From: "Richard Hutchinson" richard.hutchinson@dsl.pipex.com

    >>I need two Vectrex units for experiments
    >
    >What sort of experiments ?

    I intend to wire the deflection coils of one unpowered Vectrex to the
    deflection output circuit of the other, establish an unusual deflection
    pattern to prevent screen burn using a PC waveform generator like Cool Edit or
    Daqarta and a power amp, and power up the Vectrex with the unusual signal
    applied, to evaluate the linearity of the deflection response. A graphic
    equalizer may at that point be added in between the signal generator and power
    amp which drives the coils to refine linearity.

    The deflecting signal will be a triangle wave Lissajous signal of 641 x 479
    levels, to provide a near VGA resolution raster. Hopefully, this will lead to
    development a completely flicker free computer monitor with resolutions H and V
    equal to any appropriately aspect related prime or coprime numbers. It's a
    method of double scanning every pixel that should completely eliminate flicker
    for rectangularly oriented GUIs, as the scanning is diagonal.

    I could do it on my Tek scope, but it doesn't have the right phosphor to
    properly evaluate the flicker.

    Everything from 3x5 and up is possible, with resolutions which are odd-odd and
    odd-even having a pip at two corner, while resolutions which are even-even
    forming a continuous loop without retrace or backtrace. If the H and V are
    coprime, that is, or have that sole common factor of two....

    I have simulated this at

    ftp:/users.aol.com/DGoncz

    You'll have to browse around a bit. That's my ulterior motive. There's a lot of
    neat stuff there.

    I can give you Mathcad 6.0 Plus with permission from Mathsoft to view my work
    and experiment with it. Mathsoft hopes that by doing this, you'll become a
    Mathcad customer, and is willing to gamble on a few shares. You'd be my first.
    My copy was shared. I have the paid, registered Mathcad 6.0 Student CD and
    text, but need to keep the text.


    Yours,

    Doug Goncz ( ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz/incoming )
    Student member SAE for one year.
    I love: Dona, Jeff, Kim, Mom, Neelix, Tasha, and Teri, alphabetically.
    I drive: A double-step Thunderbolt with 657% range.
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.vectrex (More info?)

    On 12 Aug 2004 11:17:25 GMT, in msg
    <20040812071725.14909.00001260@mb-m10.aol.com>, dgoncz@aol.com ( Doug Goncz )
    wrote:

    >Dear Richard,
    >
    >Quoting your post to rec.games.vectrex:
    >
    >>From: "Richard Hutchinson" richard.hutchinson@dsl.pipex.com
    >
    >>>I need two Vectrex units for experiments
    >>
    >>What sort of experiments ?
    >
    >I intend to wire the deflection coils of one unpowered Vectrex to the
    >deflection output circuit of the other, establish an unusual deflection
    >pattern to prevent screen burn using a PC waveform generator like Cool Edit or
    >Daqarta and a power amp, and power up the Vectrex with the unusual signal
    >applied, to evaluate the linearity of the deflection response. A graphic
    >equalizer may at that point be added in between the signal generator and power
    >amp which drives the coils to refine linearity.
    >
    >The deflecting signal will be a triangle wave Lissajous signal of 641 x 479
    >levels, to provide a near VGA resolution raster. Hopefully, this will lead to
    >development a completely flicker free computer monitor with resolutions H and V
    >equal to any appropriately aspect related prime or coprime numbers. It's a
    >method of double scanning every pixel that should completely eliminate flicker
    >for rectangularly oriented GUIs, as the scanning is diagonal.
    >
    >I could do it on my Tek scope, but it doesn't have the right phosphor to
    >properly evaluate the flicker.

    This sound very interesting, however you're going to find that the yoke on the
    Vectrex is not fast enough to do this.

    The Tek scope uses statically charged plates to move the trace around, which can
    be moved pretty much as fast as the electronics that drive it. The plates
    basically appears to the drive electronics a small capacitors, which limits
    their speed. However they are much easier to drive quickly, when compared to the
    large inductors of a yoke.

    The Vectrex uses dynamic deflection (the yoke) to move the trace around. You
    can move the trace much farther, and the tube can be much shorter, than when
    using static plates, however you must take into account the yoke's inductance.
    The higher the drive voltages the faster you can drive a yoke. The Vectrex uses
    a measly +/- 9v to drive it's yokes and is very slow.

    -Zonn
    --
    Zonn Moore Remove the ".AOL" from the
    Zektor, LLC email address to reply.
    www.zektor.com
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.vectrex (More info?)

    Zonn <news-zonn@zektor.AOL.com> wrote in message news:<7c3oh0li1j7pu7p3hr19f3sr6sr4g561mc@4ax.com>...
    > On 12 Aug 2004 11:17:25 GMT, in msg
    > <20040812071725.14909.00001260@mb-m10.aol.com>, dgoncz@aol.com ( Doug Goncz )
    > wrote:
    >
    > >Dear Richard,
    > >
    > >Quoting your post to rec.games.vectrex:
    > >
    > >>From: "Richard Hutchinson" richard.hutchinson@dsl.pipex.com
    >
    > >>>I need two Vectrex units for experiments
    > >>
    > >>What sort of experiments ?
    > >
    > >I intend to wire the deflection coils of one unpowered Vectrex to the
    > >deflection output circuit of the other, establish an unusual deflection
    > >pattern to prevent screen burn using a PC waveform generator like Cool Edit or
    > >Daqarta and a power amp, and power up the Vectrex with the unusual signal
    > >applied, to evaluate the linearity of the deflection response. A graphic
    > >equalizer may at that point be added in between the signal generator and power
    > >amp which drives the coils to refine linearity.
    > >
    > >The deflecting signal will be a triangle wave Lissajous signal of 641 x 479
    > >levels, to provide a near VGA resolution raster. Hopefully, this will lead to
    > >development a completely flicker free computer monitor with resolutions H and V
    > >equal to any appropriately aspect related prime or coprime numbers. It's a
    > >method of double scanning every pixel that should completely eliminate flicker
    > >for rectangularly oriented GUIs, as the scanning is diagonal.
    > >
    > >I could do it on my Tek scope, but it doesn't have the right phosphor to
    > >properly evaluate the flicker.
    >
    > This sound very interesting, however you're going to find that the yoke on the
    > Vectrex is not fast enough to do this.

    Oh, I don't intend to convert the Vectrex to a diagonal scan monitor.
    Just get the raster linearized at different resolutions, demonstrating
    the flexiblity of the concept of same-octave scan frequencies. Later,
    I'll get a pair of color stroke displays with more bandwidth.
    >
    > The Tek scope uses statically charged plates to move the trace around, which can
    > be moved pretty much as fast as the electronics that drive it. The plates
    > basically appears to the drive electronics a small capacitors, which limits
    > their speed. However they are much easier to drive quickly, when compared to the
    > large inductors of a yoke.

    Monitors use inductive yokes, that is, magnetic deflection, but the
    scan frequencies are separated by order three decades. I am separating
    them order one octave and need the equal response of the vectrex yoke
    in the x and y directions to accommodate these signals.

    >
    > The Vectrex uses dynamic deflection (the yoke) to move the trace around. You
    > can move the trace much farther, and the tube can be much shorter, than when
    > using static plates, however you must take into account the yoke's inductance.
    > The higher the drive voltages the faster you can drive a yoke.

    Yes.

    The Vectrex uses
    > a measly +/- 9v to drive it's yokes and is very slow.
    >
    > -Zonn

    I'll be using a 100 W power amp and checking the coils for heating
    with a thermistor.

    Yours,

    Doug
  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.vectrex (More info?)

    On 13 Aug 2004 03:51:12 -0700, in msg
    <5d8971ea.0408130251.20fb16a3@posting.google.com>, DGoncz@aol.com (Doug Goncz)
    wrote:


    >
    >Monitors use inductive yokes, that is, magnetic deflection, but the

    I meant "magnetic" and have no idea why I typed "dynamic", I guess it's just the
    opposite of "static" and I was typing too fast...

    >scan frequencies are separated by order three decades. I am separating
    >them order one octave and need the equal response of the vectrex yoke
    >in the x and y directions to accommodate these signals.

    That you should get, the X and Y are comparable in inductance.

    >> The Vectrex uses dynamic deflection (the yoke) to move the trace around. You
    >> can move the trace much farther, and the tube can be much shorter, than when
    >> using static plates, however you must take into account the yoke's inductance.
    >> The higher the drive voltages the faster you can drive a yoke.
    >
    >Yes.
    >
    > The Vectrex uses
    >> a measly +/- 9v to drive it's yokes and is very slow.
    >>
    >> -Zonn
    >
    >I'll be using a 100 W power amp and checking the coils for heating
    >with a thermistor.

    Bypassing the Vectrex drivers will take care of just about all your problems!

    Make sure the power amp is configured to use current feedback, as opposed to the
    voltage feedback configuration normally used to drive things like speakers. But
    then again it sounds like you have all these things already thought out.

    Sounds like an interesting experiment! Good luck!

    (And no, my Vectrex is not available!! ;-)

    -Zonn
    --
    Zonn Moore Remove the ".AOL" from the
    Zektor, LLC email address to reply.
    www.zektor.com
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.vectrex (More info?)

    They lost me at "deflection".

    :)


    (No, you don't need to explain.)
  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.vectrex (More info?)

    dgoncz@aol.com ( Doug Goncz ) wrote in message news:<20040812071725.14909.00001260@mb-m10.aol.com>...
    > Dear Richard,
    >
    > Quoting your post to rec.games.vectrex:
    >
    > >From: "Richard Hutchinson" richard.hutchinson@dsl.pipex.com
    >
    > >>I need two Vectrex units for experiments
    > >
    > >What sort of experiments ?
    >
    > I intend to wire the deflection coils of one unpowered Vectrex to the
    > deflection output circuit of the other, establish an unusual deflection
    > pattern to prevent screen burn using a PC waveform generator like Cool Edit or
    > Daqarta and a power amp, and power up the Vectrex with the unusual signal
    > applied, to evaluate the linearity of the deflection response. A graphic
    > equalizer may at that point be added in between the signal generator and power
    > amp which drives the coils to refine linearity.
    >
    > The deflecting signal will be a triangle wave Lissajous signal of 641 x 479
    > levels, to provide a near VGA resolution raster. Hopefully, this will lead to
    > development a completely flicker free computer monitor with resolutions H and V
    > equal to any appropriately aspect related prime or coprime numbers. It's a
    > method of double scanning every pixel that should completely eliminate flicker
    > for rectangularly oriented GUIs, as the scanning is diagonal.
    >
    > I could do it on my Tek scope, but it doesn't have the right phosphor to
    > properly evaluate the flicker.
    >
    > Everything from 3x5 and up is possible, with resolutions which are odd-odd and
    > odd-even having a pip at two corner, while resolutions which are even-even
    > forming a continuous loop without retrace or backtrace. If the H and V are
    > coprime, that is, or have that sole common factor of two....
    >
    > I have simulated this at
    >
    > ftp:/users.aol.com/DGoncz
    >
    > You'll have to browse around a bit. That's my ulterior motive. There's a lot of
    > neat stuff there.
    >
    > I can give you Mathcad 6.0 Plus with permission from Mathsoft to view my work
    > and experiment with it. Mathsoft hopes that by doing this, you'll become a
    > Mathcad customer, and is willing to gamble on a few shares. You'd be my first.
    > My copy was shared. I have the paid, registered Mathcad 6.0 Student CD and
    > text, but need to keep the text.
    >
    >
    > Yours,
    >
    > Doug Goncz ( ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz/incoming )
    > Student member SAE for one year.
    > I love: Dona, Jeff, Kim, Mom, Neelix, Tasha, and Teri, alphabetically.
    > I drive: A double-step Thunderbolt with 657% range.

    I'm sort of lost here myself too. I'm not a design engineer but I know just
    enough to be dangerous (sometimes)... :-)

    I wasn't aware that Vectrex had problems burning CRTs.
    Vectrex does not display pixels. It uses vector scan (analog) way of
    dispplaying graphics (but I'm sure you know that).

    Even though it is unclear, are you proposing using Vectrex to drive a
    color CRT in a Computer Monitor ? Why ?

    Maybe I dont' understand your idea after all...
    Peteski
  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.vectrex (More info?)

    peteski@my-deja.com (Peter W.) wrote in message news:<b2412277.0408172108.3f9e348d@posting.google.com>...
    > dgoncz@aol.com ( Doug Goncz ) wrote in message news:<20040812071725.14909.00001260@mb-m10.aol.com>...

    > > I intend to wire the deflection coils of one unpowered Vectrex to the
    > > deflection output circuit of the other
    >
    > I'm sort of lost here myself too. I'm not a design engineer but I know just
    > enough to be dangerous (sometimes)... :-)
    >
    > I wasn't aware that Vectrex had problems burning CRTs.
    > Vectrex does not display pixels. It uses vector scan (analog) way of
    > dispplaying graphics (but I'm sure you know that).
    >
    > Even though it is unclear, are you proposing using Vectrex to drive a
    > color CRT in a Computer Monitor ? Why ?
    >
    > Maybe I dont' understand your idea after all...
    > Peteski

    My idea is all about coprime numbers. When you pick two coprime
    numbers for the H and V of a raster, you can scan it _diagonally_ and
    not miss any pixels. When there is a common factor, blocks of pixels
    are mixed. The exception is when there is a common factor of two, you
    can make an endless, non-retrace, non-back trace scan of the pixels.

    Veccy would have a problem with screen burn only if I powered the unit
    without the signal generator and power amp turned on. Veccy inherently
    doesn't have any problem with screen burn. With deflection power off
    on any CRT, even an oscilloscope, the screen burns at the center-- a
    hard burn. I wasn't referring to the soft burn you get on computer
    monitors by leaving Excel open on for a calander quarter and not
    making any entries. A static pattern. That's a soft burn. A hard burn
    actually vaporizes the phosphor permanently. A soft burn just changes
    its absorption/emission characteristics.

    To evaluate flicker, I can't use a scope because they aren't made to
    present moving images. Scopes have a persistent phosphor. Ultimately I
    can generate video in this unusual format, and due to the scan
    geometry, such video is _highly_ compressible.

    See ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz for more on compression.

    I'd serialized some pics in Mathcad, taken the Fourier transform,
    sorted by magnitude, and clipped like 95% of the data. The resultant
    recomposition was in some cases indistinguishible from the original. I
    did an evaluation of how to use an NTSC bandwidth channel with color
    encoded the way NTSC is now, with the new scan, and it worked pretty
    well. I don't think I uploaded that. You see, when there's no
    blanking, the Fourier deals ONLY with image data. Filtering a blanked
    signal causes the blanking to bleed into the picture. Filtering an
    unblanked signal doesn't cause any bleeding.

    Note, the graphic EQ is for inductance compensation, not fitering the
    actual video.

    FREE SOFTWARE! Pardon me for shouting, but Mathsoft will allow me to
    send you Mathcad 6.0 Plus if your use is to examine and modify my
    work, not to write completely original documents. If you do start
    writing originals, you should buy Mathcad from them. I have their
    permission to distribute 6.0 as a viewer because my authorship runs
    into the 100 MB range. I have an LS-120 drive and can send you either
    a Compact Flash with Mathcad on it, or a CD-R with Mathcad and my
    work, or the LS-120. I've never used the LS-120 drive as a 120 but it
    is on line and works fine as a floppy. I got it on ebay for $15.

    Doug
  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.vectrex (More info?)

    DGoncz@aol.com (Doug Goncz) wrote in message news:<5d8971ea.0408180224.6f441577@posting.google.com>...
    > peteski@my-deja.com (Peter W.) wrote in message news:<b2412277.0408172108.3f9e348d@posting.google.com>...
    > > dgoncz@aol.com ( Doug Goncz ) wrote in message news:<20040812071725.14909.00001260@mb-m10.aol.com>...
    >
    > > > I intend to wire the deflection coils of one unpowered Vectrex to the
    > > > deflection output circuit of the other
    > >
    > > I'm sort of lost here myself too. I'm not a design engineer but I know just
    > > enough to be dangerous (sometimes)... :-)
    > >
    > > I wasn't aware that Vectrex had problems burning CRTs.
    > > Vectrex does not display pixels. It uses vector scan (analog) way of
    > > dispplaying graphics (but I'm sure you know that).
    > >
    > > Even though it is unclear, are you proposing using Vectrex to drive a
    > > color CRT in a Computer Monitor ? Why ?
    > >
    > > Maybe I dont' understand your idea after all...
    > > Peteski
    >
    > My idea is all about coprime numbers. When you pick two coprime
    > numbers for the H and V of a raster, you can scan it _diagonally_ and
    > not miss any pixels. When there is a common factor, blocks of pixels
    > are mixed. The exception is when there is a common factor of two, you
    > can make an endless, non-retrace, non-back trace scan of the pixels.
    >
    > Veccy would have a problem with screen burn only if I powered the unit
    > without the signal generator and power amp turned on. Veccy inherently
    > doesn't have any problem with screen burn. With deflection power off
    > on any CRT, even an oscilloscope, the screen burns at the center-- a
    > hard burn. I wasn't referring to the soft burn you get on computer
    > monitors by leaving Excel open on for a calander quarter and not
    > making any entries. A static pattern. That's a soft burn. A hard burn
    > actually vaporizes the phosphor permanently. A soft burn just changes
    > its absorption/emission characteristics.
    >
    > To evaluate flicker, I can't use a scope because they aren't made to
    > present moving images. Scopes have a persistent phosphor. Ultimately I
    > can generate video in this unusual format, and due to the scan
    > geometry, such video is _highly_ compressible.
    >
    > See ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz for more on compression.
    >
    > I'd serialized some pics in Mathcad, taken the Fourier transform,
    > sorted by magnitude, and clipped like 95% of the data. The resultant
    > recomposition was in some cases indistinguishible from the original. I
    > did an evaluation of how to use an NTSC bandwidth channel with color
    > encoded the way NTSC is now, with the new scan, and it worked pretty
    > well. I don't think I uploaded that. You see, when there's no
    > blanking, the Fourier deals ONLY with image data. Filtering a blanked
    > signal causes the blanking to bleed into the picture. Filtering an
    > unblanked signal doesn't cause any bleeding.
    >
    > Note, the graphic EQ is for inductance compensation, not fitering the
    > actual video.
    >
    > FREE SOFTWARE! Pardon me for shouting, but Mathsoft will allow me to
    > send you Mathcad 6.0 Plus if your use is to examine and modify my
    > work, not to write completely original documents. If you do start
    > writing originals, you should buy Mathcad from them. I have their
    > permission to distribute 6.0 as a viewer because my authorship runs
    > into the 100 MB range. I have an LS-120 drive and can send you either
    > a Compact Flash with Mathcad on it, or a CD-R with Mathcad and my
    > work, or the LS-120. I've never used the LS-120 drive as a 120 but it
    > is on line and works fine as a floppy. I got it on ebay for $15.
    >
    > Doug
    Doug,
    thanks for the explanation. This math stuff is way over my head and I'm not
    going to get all of this even reading your info on the ftp site.

    But I think you answered my question. You will be using Vectrex CRT and
    yokes for your experiment, not to display Vectrex games, right?

    Because Vectrex does not display using raster, but vectors. If there is no
    raster, you can't miss pixels, because there aren't any, right?

    You talk about NTSC and pixels. Vectrex has a monochrome solid phosphor
    display and is doesn't use NTSC standard.

    That is what was confusing me. But like I said, I probably won't
    understand this anyways, so ne need to keep this going...

    Peteski
  10. Archived from groups: rec.games.vectrex (More info?)

    DGoncz@aol.com (Doug Goncz) wrote in message news:<5d8971ea.0408180224.6f441577@posting.google.com>...
    > peteski@my-deja.com (Peter W.) wrote in message news:<b2412277.0408172108.3f9e348d@posting.google.com>...
    > > dgoncz@aol.com ( Doug Goncz ) wrote in message news:<20040812071725.14909.00001260@mb-m10.aol.com>...
    >
    > > > I intend to wire the deflection coils of one unpowered Vectrex to the
    > > > deflection output circuit of the other
    > >
    > > I'm sort of lost here myself too. I'm not a design engineer but I know just
    > > enough to be dangerous (sometimes)... :-)
    > >
    > > I wasn't aware that Vectrex had problems burning CRTs.
    > > Vectrex does not display pixels. It uses vector scan (analog) way of
    > > dispplaying graphics (but I'm sure you know that).
    > >
    > > Even though it is unclear, are you proposing using Vectrex to drive a
    > > color CRT in a Computer Monitor ? Why ?
    > >
    > > Maybe I dont' understand your idea after all...
    > > Peteski
    >
    > My idea is all about coprime numbers. When you pick two coprime
    > numbers for the H and V of a raster, you can scan it _diagonally_ and
    > not miss any pixels. When there is a common factor, blocks of pixels
    > are mixed. The exception is when there is a common factor of two, you
    > can make an endless, non-retrace, non-back trace scan of the pixels.
    >
    > Veccy would have a problem with screen burn only if I powered the unit
    > without the signal generator and power amp turned on. Veccy inherently
    > doesn't have any problem with screen burn. With deflection power off
    > on any CRT, even an oscilloscope, the screen burns at the center-- a
    > hard burn. I wasn't referring to the soft burn you get on computer
    > monitors by leaving Excel open on for a calander quarter and not
    > making any entries. A static pattern. That's a soft burn. A hard burn
    > actually vaporizes the phosphor permanently. A soft burn just changes
    > its absorption/emission characteristics.
    >
    > To evaluate flicker, I can't use a scope because they aren't made to
    > present moving images. Scopes have a persistent phosphor. Ultimately I
    > can generate video in this unusual format, and due to the scan
    > geometry, such video is _highly_ compressible.
    >
    > See ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz for more on compression.
    >
    > I'd serialized some pics in Mathcad, taken the Fourier transform,
    > sorted by magnitude, and clipped like 95% of the data. The resultant
    > recomposition was in some cases indistinguishible from the original. I
    > did an evaluation of how to use an NTSC bandwidth channel with color
    > encoded the way NTSC is now, with the new scan, and it worked pretty
    > well. I don't think I uploaded that. You see, when there's no
    > blanking, the Fourier deals ONLY with image data. Filtering a blanked
    > signal causes the blanking to bleed into the picture. Filtering an
    > unblanked signal doesn't cause any bleeding.
    >
    > Note, the graphic EQ is for inductance compensation, not fitering the
    > actual video.
    >
    > FREE SOFTWARE! Pardon me for shouting, but Mathsoft will allow me to
    > send you Mathcad 6.0 Plus if your use is to examine and modify my
    > work, not to write completely original documents. If you do start
    > writing originals, you should buy Mathcad from them. I have their
    > permission to distribute 6.0 as a viewer because my authorship runs
    > into the 100 MB range. I have an LS-120 drive and can send you either
    > a Compact Flash with Mathcad on it, or a CD-R with Mathcad and my
    > work, or the LS-120. I've never used the LS-120 drive as a 120 but it
    > is on line and works fine as a floppy. I got it on ebay for $15.
    >
    > Doug
    Doug,
    thanks for the explanation. This math stuff is way over my head and I'm not
    going to get all of this even reading your info on the ftp site.

    But I think you answered my question. You will be using Vectrex CRT and
    yokes for your experiment, not to display Vectrex games, right?

    Because Vectrex does not display using raster, but vectors. If there is no
    raster, you can't miss pixels, because there aren't any, right?

    You talk about NTSC and pixels. Vectrex has a monochrome solid phosphor
    display and is doesn't use NTSC standard.

    That is what was confusing me. But like I said, I probably won't
    understand this anyways, so ne need to keep this going...

    Peteski
  11. Archived from groups: rec.games.vectrex (More info?)

    Dear Peteski,

    peteski@my-deja.com (Peter W.) wrote in message news:<b2412277.0408181929.7b81f481@posting.google.com>...
    > Doug,
    > thanks for the explanation. This math stuff is way over my head and I'm not
    > going to get all of this even reading your info on the ftp site.

    > But I think you answered my question. You will be using Vectrex CRT and
    > yokes for your experiment, not to display Vectrex games, right?

    I'll use the entire Vectrex unit and return it to original condition
    after the experiemnts. Not to display Vectrex games, no. To display
    what should be a perfectly linear pattern of diagonal, crossed, evenly
    spaced lines, but what will be at first, wiggly lines. The graphic EQ
    will be used to straighten the lines, compensating for yoke
    inductance.

    > Because Vectrex does not display using raster, but vectors. If there is no
    > raster, you can't miss pixels, because there aren't any, right?

    Almost. A raster is a series of parallel vectors modulated as pixels.
    Usually a vector display just draws evenly illuminated lines. But
    these lines used to be drawn dotted or dashed. The beam can be
    modulated to draw pixels. By crossing all the lines diagonally at even
    spacing, a whole new raster display, _on vector hardware_ is created.

    > You talk about NTSC and pixels. Vectrex has a monochrome solid phosphor
    > display and is doesn't use NTSC standard.

    Nope, it doesn't use NTSC but it does have the right phosphor.

    Once the pattern is on the screen, the question will be: how low can
    you take the frame rate without flicker? My hypothesis is that
    extremely low frame rates still won't flicker, and yet extremely high
    rates will be available simply by changing drive and EQ settings. In
    other words, vector hardware will prove to be more flexible than
    raster hardware. That is, having both deflection coils the same will
    prove to be more flexible to having one optimized for fast horizontal
    deflection, and a separate coil optimized for slow vertical
    deflection.

    A graphic EQ with savable settings would be handy. But writing them
    down is sufficient and saves money. Alternatively, software can
    generate filtered drive waveforms.

    > That is what was confusing me. But like I said, I probably won't
    > understand this anyways, so ne need to keep this going...

    Does this help? Please, ask more questions.

    I can get two Vectrex units for $189 each.


    Dougie
  12. Archived from groups: rec.games.vectrex (More info?)

    >>I can get two Vectrex units for $189 each.<<

    Pricey .. I would think that you could get two Vectrex units for
    $120-$150.

    Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA
  13. Archived from groups: rec.games.vectrex (More info?)

    I think I'll start with two black and white TV sets at $19 each and
    see what I can do.

    Maybe I can mount them to a board and make the tuner on one tune the
    picture on the other. Wouldn't that be silly? Nothing between them but
    18 gage wire.

    Doug
  14. Archived from groups: rec.games.vectrex (More info?)

    DGoncz@aol.com (Doug Goncz) wrote in message news:<5d8971ea.0408201131.bc746ea@posting.google.com>...
    > I think I'll start with two black and white TV sets at $19 each and
    > see what I can do.
    >
    > Maybe I can mount them to a board and make the tuner on one tune the
    > picture on the other. Wouldn't that be silly? Nothing between them but
    > 18 gage wire.
    >
    > Doug

    I'm pretty sure you should be able to find working Vecrtii on eBay for much
    less than what you stated. Sometimes they show up without controllers which
    makes them cheaper. Sometimes they are damaged (but still work).

    TVs might not work as they depend on Horizontal deflection pulses to generate
    the High Voltage. No HV, no display... Hmm... on the same note, I'm not
    sure what Vectrex uses to get its High Voltage.

    Sounds like you have the theory worked out, but you need help with the workable
    design details...

    I'm still confused on your concept but since you are explaining it well, I'll
    ask you another question.

    If you are planning on crossed and modulated vectors, don't they need to
    be displayed on the same CRT? How do you propose to piggy-back both yokes
    on the neck of the same CRT? Or will each CRT display separate set of
    vectors and you'll use optics to merge both displays?

    Also, FWIK the deflection is not very linear and the yoke coils themselves
    present a quite complex load on the driving amplifier. That is why
    any device using CRTs has a specifically designed vertical and horizontal
    output driver. I'm not sure is a simple equalizer could compensate for
    that complex load.

    But invention breakthroughs weren't done by doubters - they are done by
    doers and experimenters. So, go 4 it ! We might be at a dawn of a new
    display revolution. It would be interesting to see how this stacks up to
    the current LCD and Plasma technology.

    Peteski
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