9700 pro vs 9800 np

halem111

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so whats the difference between these two boards to give the 9800np a price difference between the two boards, is the 9800np better and can it be overclocked better. thanx
 

ufo_warviper

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Performance wise, these 2 boards are extremely close. I would go with which ever one is cheaper. As far as Overclocking potential, I'm not sure which one is best. I belive both are decent overclockers. LHGPoobaa was able to do a massive overclock on his Radeon 9800 Pro after modifying the heatsinks among other things. However, removng the original heatsinks off of a card will most definately void the warrenty. Only do this if your rich and you want to have the fastest card around and can easily afford picking up another graphics card if you fry it.

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Crashman

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Funny thing, the 9800 uses the 9700 chip. It's been revised to support higher clock speed, but that's it.

So the newer 9800 features are done in software, meaning a hacked driver can turn a 9700 Pro into a 9800 non-pro at 9700 Pro speeds.

So I'd say the 9700 Pro would be a better card for the same money.

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ufo_warviper

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The 9700's I hear are becomming increasingly more difficult to locate these days.

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lhgpoobaa

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If possible, go for the R9700pro opposed to the 9800nonpro.

9700pro = 325/310
9800nonpro = 325/290

the 9800nonpro uses slightly slower memory, but more importantly memory of a lower speed rating, which doesnt overclock well (315 tops)

However the R9700 line is getting rare to find.

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Crashman

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Darned near impossible, but still a better choice for similar money I believe, as it should come with slightly faster memory (I'm hearing of 9800np with 3.3ns RAM). I mean, you could try overclocking the 9800np to Pro speeds...or you could try enabling the 9800 features on the 9700 Pro. Should get faster memory that way.

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MCSEGeek

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.....9800nonpro = 325/290.....

Is that core/memory speed? If so, then I'm confused. (I stay confused)

According to the ATI site, the 9800 non pro specs are 325/580.

(http://www.ati.com/products/radeon9800/radeon9800pro/compare.html)
 

ufo_warviper

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Clicky to above:

<A HREF="http://www.ati.com/products/radeon9800/radeon9800pro/compare.html" target="_new">http://www.ati.com/products/radeon9800/radeon9800pro/compare.html</A>



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ufo_warviper

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580 is exactly twice as much as 290. Maybe its Dual-pumped or something.

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cleeve

Illustrious
Not quite Crashman, the 9800 (R350) chip is heavily based on the 9700 (R300) chip, but there are slight optimizations to the shader units that removed some limitations, from what I understand.

Still, it doesn't make much of a difference in performance at all.

And yes, video card memory is DDR... double data rate, which means some companies will list it at it's "true" rate, and some will list it at it's "effective" doubled rate, but it's the same thing.

------------------
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MCSEGeek

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Thanks, still new to this message board, and trying to figure everything out.

By the way, who's got a better price on a 9800 Pro than $370?
 

speeduk

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290 x 2 = 580. Same thing just a DDR rating.

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Crashman

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Former Staff
As far as I know all they did in hardware was fix a few "bugs" that made the chip run hotter, so they could clock it higher. Some of those "bugs" may have been in the shader unit. But people still use hacked drivers to enable 9800 features on their 9700's.

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lhgpoobaa

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In this case both are correct.

Core speed = 325Mhz.
Memory speed = 290Mhz.
But the memory is DDR or "double data rate" so the speed is (errorously) given as
290 x 2 = 580.

Most people (i hope) tend to deal with the 'real' Mhz as thats what you change with the overclocking tools, not he double value.

Its the same deal with the AMD doublepumped system bus speed and Intels P4 quad pumped one.

800FSB sounds alot more impressive than 200.



<b>I am not a AMD fanboy.
I am not a Via fanboy.
I am not a ATI fanboy.
I AM a performance fanboy.
And a low price fanboy. :smile:
Regards,
Mr no integrity coward.</b>
 

kinney

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I went with the 9800NP. In fact I bought 2 of them.
They are everything the 9700pro is and more. Same features. At the stock clock they are about equal with each one getting the edge sometimes but the 9800 pretty much pulls the lil extra out over the 9700pro.

It depends on price, its my opinion that the 9800 is the better choice if the price is similar (within $20).

Heres a good <A HREF="http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/ati_radeon_9800_review/default.asp" target="_new">review</A> with a great comparison.

Its pretty dead on, the 9700pro takes the lead in clock speed but the 9800 has it beat in features.
Besides the 9800 being able to o/c further because of the core tweaks, they added the F-buffer and has the enhanced z cache and a better memory controller that makes a difference with AA/AF.

Also I have the infineon memory (supposedly the bad stuff) on both of my cards and I'm running 9800pro speeds with the rage3d overclock utility (380core/680mem) with no problems on either.

Don't know what else to tell you besides that I'm happy, paid $480 for both from xtremegear.

edit- i wanted to say if i was to buy again I'd seriously consider the 9600pro. Its a great deal at $120 and honestly, will prob get you thru HL2/D3 w/o AA/AF. They are more than able in old games too.
Check out the HL2 benches if you havent and see what I mean.

-----
eden is my intel/ati superboy<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by kinney on 09/23/03 01:31 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

cleeve

Illustrious
Yes there is a soft9800 mod, but from what I understand it just added some driver optimizations, not true 9800 shader functionality.

Well, from what I understand the F-buffer would have to be a hardware modification. Here's the clip from Tom's:

"The shader unit (SmartShader) has been supplemented with a so-called "F-Buffer," which theoretically allows shader code of infinite length... Changes have also been made to "SmoothVision" (now 2.1) and HyperZ III (now III+ - you can't go wrong with pluses)."

The smoothvision and smartshader changes might be driver changes and not actual hardware modifications, tho.


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Radeon 9500 (modded to PRO w/8 pixel pipelines)
AMD AthlonXP 2000+
3dMark03: 3529