Then they should break up IBM and APPLE, they are monopoly in waiting. I say no Mirosoft played by the rules that is the basis of the American economy, to be the best. If no one can compete too bad. The american government has no right to interfere with the operations of a private business. Uncle Sam should keep his fingers to himself. Natural Monopolies are always there, i for one want to follow the 800 pound gorilla (microsoft) threw the forest then hack my way threw. Antitrust bah everyone new what microsoft was doing from the beginning, we all remeber the flop of OS2. They told IBM to [-peep-] themselves then and now IBM is pushing for the split bah. IBM the enemy they are the silent industry killer waiting to rule it all.
SPUD
<font color=blue>Just some advice from your friendly neighborhood blue man </font color=blue>
I agree with Spud completely, but I also have this to add: Have you seen Microsoft's testimony or Bill Gates testimony. It really showed how bad the company is. Bill gates is involved in EVERY decision that is made, yet he sat on the stand and pretended he was ignorant. His demeanor was horrendous, and the prosecution proved he was a liar. Furthermore, have you seen their prices? What about their quality? They have excellent products, but at the expense of quality. Their OS is riddled with bugs, but it remains the only reasonable solution. They pressure companies to bundle their software...or else. However, if you are to break up Microsoft you are left with a major dillema. What about AOL? Aol accounts for 1/3 of the countries internet service and they own both Netscape and Mirabeles (ICQ). They have a monopoly just waiting to spring into action. The whole industry is one big conglomerates of monopolies and when one company falls another sleeping dragon wakes.
Look at the industry. You have Microsoft, AOL, Cisco, Oracle all as the major players. They DOMINATE the industry and can crush or absorb anything. Realize that Microsoft owns a large portion of Apple, so there is no threat there. I am sure Redhat is taken care of too.
I would like to see Microsoft broken up to some extent though. This integration crap of having to use their browser is wrong. Why not be able to integrate any browser of your choosing. Realize the WinXP will also be integrating MSN messenger. It's never going to stop with microsoft. They call inovation their taking over the market completely.
I think they have great products though. But their OS is horrendous and until they are broken up OSX isn't going to be able to compete, and that is where I think the greatest innovation lies.
<font color=red>Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.</font color=red>
Pablo Picasso
Hmm. I'm with MS too but on the issue of 'integrated stuff' like IE and MSN Messenger. I have something that I do not really understand. If users choose not to use this products and want to use other products instead, why not just not use it? It comes for free and it's up to you to use it or not.
Also, I think there should be a standard throughout the industry including the operating system. If we were to have so many different OSes to deal with not only would the end users be confused but they would also mess up the hardware industry. Imagine developing drivers for hundreds of different operating systems. Bad idea.
And antitrust? I think all companies to that too. Intel does too, why not just break it up?
I think that breaking up Microsoft would be a bad decision and an unjustified one. I see absolutely nothing wrong with integrating several software packages into one. Every software company does this. The only difference here is that Microsoft is making Operating Systems with integrated components instead of something like a web browser or a utilities package.
But just because Window's Active Desktop and File Manager/Explorer are using an Internet Explorer Shell, doesn't mean that you can't run other web browsers such as Netscape. Microsoft lets you use other software. They just package <i>their</i> OS with <i>their</i> products.
Norton does it.
My company does it.
AOL does it.
Heck, I don't know of a company that doesn't package their own software components together to make one larger and more powerful program.
So I don't see <b>any</b> justification for breaking up Microsoft for doing the same thing. At least not without also doing so to every other company that has done it and is doing it.
<b>HOWEVER</b>, that doesn't mean that I think Microsoft hasn't done things that do deserve intervention. I think a more proper punishment for Microsoft is a judgement that Microsoft cannot release ANY new software until it either compensates people who have purchased their buggy products, or until it actually fixes at least 75% of the known bugs in each of their products, offering these patches <i>free of charge</i>.
I also think that Microsoft should at least be required to provide <b>FULL</b> documentation on <b>ALL</b> of the Windows API functions. It irks me that MS knows every last detail about them, but even today the rest of the world is still trying to piece together what some of them are and how to use some of them. How can competing software products (To compete against things like Word) be created if Microsoft is keeping pieces of their Windows API a secret? They shouldn't have to do anything drastic like make their OS open source. They should just be required to give complete documentation on every last feature in it and how they work and how they can be used.
I'm sick and tired of MS products being bug-ridden memory-leaking pieces of crap. And I'm tired of seeing countless lost man-hours of work because of these bugs. And I'm REALLY tired of seeing MS 'fix' these bugs, but instead of offering the fixes for free, they offer them as 'B', 'Second Edition', one higher version number, etc.
I would have absolutely no problems whatsoever with Microsoft holding the majority of the market IF Microsoft products actually worked as well as they should for a company of that size and with that many resources.
I mean this is what big companies do. They eat up other companies and grow bigger and bigger and soon there is little reason to go with any other product. I don't mind that. That is often times how standards get set. And standards make life easier for everyone else. And so long as the product prices are reasonable when the resources that went into them are considered, I see nothing wrong with that. Especially when you can always choose to go with those 'other' products made by smaller companies.
There is StarOffice to replace MS Office. There is Netscape and Mozilla to replace Internet Explorer. There is AOL IM, Yahoo IM, and even ICQ to replace MSN IM. There are several flavors of Linux to replace Windows. There is even Unix for those so desiring. Microsoft is NOT a monopoly. They just happen to be a very large company with the majority of the market share. This doesn't make them evil. It just means that they have little to worry from what competition does exist.
-Computers are like little kids. They don't do what you tell them to, and they act up for no reason.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by slvr_phoenix on 03/29/01 10:24 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
I just wish I could be the judge sitting in on that trial. I think so far, the whole case has been handled with very little actual concern for setting a good precident. The law has so far hardly seemed to matter. Instead it's been mostly opinion and emotion that have ruled the decisions.
And that's no way to judge a case.
Has Microsoft done some nasty things? It's pretty clear that they have here and there. And something should be done about it.
Is Microsoft a monopoly that needs to be broken up? While they may be getting somewhat close to one, they haven't nearly reached the point of a true monopoly yet. So breaking them into two or three components isn't the right solution.
Besides, would breaking Microsoft up accomplish anything?
Heck no.
The first thing that MS would do if broken up is to institute a new set of Windows standards for Internet use ... that would be surprisingly similar to (but named differently than) Internet Explorer. And from then on, when MS-OS writes new versions of Windows, MS-Apps will write their Internet Explorer using the very same Windows Internet standards that MS-OS wrote. So in the end, even with a break up, you'll still be seeing the very same thing anyway, even though it is two seperate companies now. You'll still be seeing a form of Internet Explorer built into Windows. Only it'll be named something different. And you'll still have Internet Explorer free for download and it's code will be surprisingly similar to the code of the renamed IE in Windows.
So not only do I not see how breaking them up is a good solution, but I also do not see how breaking them up would even accomplish anything.
Which, if I were running MS, I'd be making just as much of a complaint about the breakup. I'd make as much noise as humanly possible. That way the judge will be thinking that this would really hurt Microsoft and accomplish something, so the punishment will probably stick instead of having to come up with something new and creative. When in actuality from MS's perspective, the workaround is quite simple and the 'punishment' is truely laughable.
It's like a snake who pretends to be dead and lets a fish nibble on it a bit and then when the fish thinks that it's truely hurt the snake, it turns out that it's all over and it's the snake who is grinning with the fish in it's mouth.
Microsoft is playing these court cases with great skill to seem far more concerned about it than they actually are.
Or at least, that's what I'm hoping is the case. Otherwise the people at Microsoft are pretty dumb.
-Computers are like little kids. They don't do what you tell them to, and they act up for no reason.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by slvr_phoenix on 03/29/01 04:34 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
But MS has been leading the way for so many years as well. With NT and 2000 and even xp they are real standard makers pure 32 bit very very clean code. MS has had problems with 9X because there was no real standards for it. With win 2k they are right there watching makeing sure no one makes shitty drivers, software, and hardware that is a good thing because as far as im concered the whole issue of crashes instablility is because programmer and hardware engineers are cutting corners (but windows 9x is bitchy as well). Now with the integration deal its their OS they see it fit to do what they like with it.Its just another witch hunt as it was way back when the the US went after GE and IBM.
SPUDMUFFIN
<font color=blue>Just some advice from your friendly neighborhood blue man </font color=blue>
I agree with you so much, at least, about breaking up Microsoft is not going to do anything. We have to admit Microsoft has a monopoly on the OS, but that doesn't mean much. I admit that Microsoft have really high prices and is now using their stupid Product Activation for Windows XP and Office XP, but that doesn't mean Microsoft should break up, at least to the sense that the court wants.
Oh yeah, I forgot.
I got a quote from my Economics teacher,
"Sony doesn't sue Ford because Ford uses it's own radio in its car." Great quote, right? Now how can I refute that many people don't change their radio? I don't think I can :-). This is, of course, referring to IE and Netscape.
Windows 2000 is the most stablest OS, and I mean it. I'm sick of using Windows 95, 98 at my school, but I do like the T1 line ;-D. If you haven't already (or I missed this in your post) you should consider Windows 2000 or Windows XP.
Keep it up guys. I forget to mention that I'm assuming that I can use your post and name in the forum. If you don't want this (name, post, or whole), please reply to the topic.
-------------
Giovanni Go
WebMaster
www.dreamnid.com dreamnid@dreamnid.com<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by dreamnid on 03/29/01 06:19 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
You are about to answer a thread that has been inactive for more than 6 months. If you still wish to proceed, please ensure that your posting is original and does not duplicate or overlap any prior responses to this thread.