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It may be time soon!!!

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Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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October 2, 2003 11:20:30 PM

I got my hands on Halo, but da shizzle don't run too fast on my 1.2Ghz T-Bird, Quadro DCC, 1GB DDR (I wanna cry). It feels pretty smooth (I'm used to 100FPS in CS...) @ 800x600 and just a tad unsmooth at 1024x768...maybe I'll use FRAPS and check out my actual FPS. Thus it may soon be time to replace Da Tank, cause I promised myself I'd use it till it couldn't run new games well. This is pushing it over the edge now.

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"

More about : time

October 2, 2003 11:21:24 PM

I just realized...if I wait till Christmas, my system will be 3 years old!!!

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
October 2, 2003 11:39:58 PM

Captain Obvious feels compelled to point out that yes, your system is old and needs upgrading!

<b><font color=red>Captain Obvious To The Rescue!!!</font color=red></b>
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October 3, 2003 12:20:36 AM

Under the Obvious cercustance that if he wants to beat Halo. If he wants to continue to play COunterstrike, his system is fine. But personally, I suggest an upgrade.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!
October 3, 2003 12:40:29 AM

So what are you gonna buy?

A Quadro?
Or did you just create a useless thread regarding a CPU upgrade?

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 3, 2003 1:51:28 AM

:evil: 

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 3, 2003 1:54:06 AM

Naw, the vid card goes too actually, in fact I'm gonna build a system from scratch. For vid card, whatever's best (and non ati :evil:  ) around NV40 release...

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 3, 2003 2:02:36 AM

I'm just curious what has you so sold on nVidia. No comapany is perfect and that includes both nVidia & ATi.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!
October 3, 2003 2:42:23 AM

I'm just wondering why he'd go for anything non-ATI if ATi dominated during NV40 as well.

You can't expect a mentally hurt kid to change, a sign of maturity stagnating.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 3, 2003 3:04:11 AM

You have no proof of me being mentally hurt. Part of the reason I always so non ati is for argument's sake, just b/c it stirs up debate and is fun to argue over.

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 3, 2003 3:07:27 AM

(do try to be less condescending you brat)

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 3, 2003 3:12:14 AM

Well, most people around here use NV and we've just got accustomed to it. I've had terrible driver problems with Ati, and still don't trust em. Haven't had driver problems wuth NV, nor have my friends, so I still trust em. In general I just get a bad feeling about that company (just a vibe) and it's fun to stir up debates where it's me vs. THG:)  I'm not as much for NV as I am for anyone other than Ati, and that includes the underdog like Volari. I was really excited about Parhelia, still wish it kicked arse. Finally, there is the whole thing about quadros. It's a fact that the GF FX is geared more towards OGL, and that is what I use in 3d s max (actually Maxtreme which is OGL + software). It woops Ati in that respect, and I thus have for respect for NV for my uses, which include pro cards. The Firegls were good, I do remember at one time wanting one.

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 3, 2003 3:13:02 AM

And also I'm a really satisfied user of a GF2 Pro, GF2 Ultra, GF3, Quadro DCC, GF4 Ti4200:) 

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 3, 2003 3:19:33 AM

Quote:
do try to be less condescending you brat


Great news, I just stirred you up so well in the pot.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 3, 2003 3:21:11 AM

Quote:
I've had terrible driver problems with Ati, and still don't trust em.

Considering they ARE more stable than the Detonators now, and that everyone is switching and having little problems, I'd say your basis has become absolutely used up, nonsense. You're clinging on the past when you should try asking some who bought the recent ones with recent drivers how they feel.

I guess if AMD had horrible chipsets for the K6, and you had bad experience then, to this day you'd never get an AMD anymore, by your logic.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 3, 2003 3:31:51 AM

I am yet to get a driver problem with my NV card, so why should I switch something that I know to be working with something else? K6 wasn't that great a processor, and I knew it, but I still got an AMD. Reason I got an AMD was again, because of a reason specific to me- I needed something with a kickass FPU. Again, I need something specific to OGL here too, ie NV if we talk about right now.

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 3, 2003 3:36:23 AM

Quote:
K6 wasn't that great a processor, and I knew it, but I still got an AMD.

That is beside my analogy's intention dude.

And that's beside the point, I understand your needs and that's not what I meant. I mean from a purely decisive POV. Suppose your bro wanted a gamer card. Basically you are continuing to shun ATi, even if you recommend it to friends, but you probably wouldn't for your own house.

Getting you to switch for your own comp when you need a Quadro would be silly on my part, and that is not what I am doing.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol:  <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eden on 10/02/03 11:37 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
October 3, 2003 4:07:28 AM

Quote:
It's a fact that the GF FX is geared more towards OGL, and that is what I use in 3d s max (actually Maxtreme which is OGL + software). It woops Ati in that respect, and I thus have for respect for NV for my uses, which include pro cards.

You BET nVidia <i>definitely</i> whoops ATi's arse in OpenGL! Especially when using <b>12-bit</b> Floating Point Precision & Vendor Specific Rendering Paths, the way games are meant to be played.

Anywayz, I hope your able to get some decent parts for your upgrade, and some AWESOME prices too. :smile:

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!
October 3, 2003 4:16:03 AM

Lol, I'm seeing awesome not in the sense as kickass deal but as Holy sh!t, u spent how much on 4 processor system???!!! Hehe. I'm sure the 21 or 23" LCD is gonna jack up the price.

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 3, 2003 4:17:31 AM

Everyone seems to be satisfied with the pc's I've built for em, das why the last guy paid me $400 to build him one and I split it 50/50 with a friend of mine.

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 3, 2003 11:42:30 AM

Flamethrower brings up some good points of why he doesn't & a lot of other gamers don't want to touch ATI.

I game & that's really about all I do with my machine. The machines I build are gaming machines for gamers & most of them are friends or clan members. Now I'm not saying a thing against ATI in the least. I wouldn't argue one little bit about how ATI's are faster & the filtering is better, & all that's been said on this forum. However having said that, I can't get a gamer around here to touch a ATI card period. It's exactly the reasons that Flame stated.

Please no flames. I'm trying to make a point that I think is over looked on the forum, verses the general gaming public. I'm not trying to say Nvida is better than ATI, don't go there, please. At least here in the mid west, Flamethrowers reasons are very valid.

I'm the type of guy that has to have ran something in my machine to really see what it does for me. Benches are nice to read, look at & all. I make a decision on benches, but until I have it in my machine & put it through my paces, benches don't mean a whole lot to me, until I see the results myself.

I've tried talking the last 4 customers into a ATI until I'm blue in the face. I want to put one in a machine really bad to judge it for myself. I've had no takers. The last 4 machines I've built either have the 4200 or 4600 cards in them. They all believe the FX line is crap as well. So there you have it.

What am I running & why? I'm running the 4600. Why, because it's the fastest card I've ever had in my machine. I get 13600 3Dmarks with it. I bought it when it came out. Will my next card be ATI? I have no idea at this point. The earliest I'm going to be looking for a card is about Q2 or Q3 next year. That will be after HL2 & Doom3 are out for awhile. I'll be looking at the next gen., or after. If I've handled a ATI card & see the difference, then & only then would I get a ATI at that point. If I haven't had the chance to play with a ATI card & they are both as close as they are now, my nod would go to Nvidia. I know that rubs some people the wrong way, but until I actually get a top of the line ATI card (I always run the TOL cards when I buy), I won't change my opinion about ATI just form the benches I read & the opinions here on the forum. Would I buy a Ati card after having played with both of them & proving it to myself, dam straight. Then & only the would I make that decision.

I'd also say that I have the luxury of making decisions like this because, I handle so much equipment that I can make my decisions this way. Not everyone is able to do this & I would be the first one to agree with that fact as well.

I believe that a lot of the people that talk up a lot of things here, have 1. never ran what they're talking about. 2. are only quoting benches w/o any experience & 3. are quoting what they themselves would like to have. I'm not saying that pertains to everyone here either & certainly not you, believe me. It also doesn't just pertain to this forum either.

So that's my take on things. I didn't try & offend anyone. I tried to explain what I see is the more grass roots opinion that I see between the 2 cards & the forum's view. The other side of the coin, so to speak.

Dazzle them with Brilliance, or Baffle them with BS! :wink:
October 3, 2003 1:30:36 PM

You bring up some valid points that I think are definitely worth considering.

Quote:

I believe that a lot of the people that talk up a lot of things here, have 1. never ran what they're talking about. 2. are only quoting benches w/o any experience & 3. are quoting what they themselves would like to have. I'm not saying that pertains to everyone here either & certainly not you, believe me. It also doesn't just pertain to this forum either.

I can say most of us including myself are Guilty of points #1 & #2. But I don't think we're really to blame. As a community helping others out, we can only do our best. Since we don't get the opportunities like you said to always try for ourselves what we reccomend, are best generally involves evaluating professional opinion, benchmarks, Image Quality Screenshots, & observations of other Forum Users. I wish we could all have more hands-on experience with each individual card, but we can only use what we have at our disposal unfortunately. And for most of us, the resoruces at our disposal does not include every Graphics Card on the market. Also, when purchasing Graphics cards, factors other than performance & image quality arrise. Such factors include but are not limited to Price/perfomance ratio, product stability, product compatibility, just to name the main ones off the top of my head.

As far as point #3, I usually reccomend what the situation at hand calls for. Some people want High image quality at a low price. Others want hte best thing on the market. Those who are willing only to take nVidia cards, I generally reccomend a Geforce 4 Ti card. And to those who want the best thing on the market, I have reccomended the ATI Radeon 9800 Pro in the past. For those who want high performance at a non-exorbitant price, I genarlly reccomend the Radeon 9700 non-pro. For those who are gamers on an extremely thin budget, I reccomend GF$ TI 4200. For those users that don't want to engage in any 3D Gaming or only want to play DX7/DX8 games on extrmely rare occaisions, I would reccomend the Radeon 9100/8500LE. For those who are budget 2D users, well a GeForce2 MX would probably do the trick or a Radeon 7000, heck even a TNT2 or less would work for them!

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!
October 3, 2003 2:17:13 PM

I wouldn't disagree with your recommendation's at all.

I don't handle everything that's out there either. I don't have a shop. I build out of my house, but do build quite a few machines. So I didn't mean to imply that I handle all vid cards that are out there either.

I'm not trying to offend anyone. I'm just trying to be honest, is all. :wink:

Dazzle them with Brilliance, or Baffle them with BS! :wink:
October 3, 2003 4:18:04 PM

I owned a TI4400, and had it ocd to like 325/640. I used to be a big nV supporter. Before the first FX5800 review came out I even had a crazy sig about it, you can look through my posts if you want to see it. Now I have a 9800 Pro (also OCd). Is it faster? Hella faster. Does AA and aniso do what theyre supposed to? You bet. Image quality? Better than my ti4400 (and I used riva tuner to lower LOD). And AA/aniso runs fast as a bitch too. Driver problems? ZERO. Did I have experience with ATI products before I bought one? No. I looked at the FACTS, and evaluated opinions, and came to the conclusion that ATI was the way to go. You're not looking at the facts, what's said on this board is not all opinion.


Stop asking people "whats up" or "hows it goin", you know you don't give a sh*t. And noone cares how you're doing either.

"We are far less than we knew." - Bright Eyes
October 3, 2003 5:39:19 PM

Oh yes, I agree with you there Willamette. That's exactly why I'm here. I see what's written & read the reviews. I know ATI's are great cards. When it is my turn to buy another card I'll take the plunge myself, if nobody else does here, to ATI just to see. That is if it's still on top then, which it very well could be for all I know. If I were buying for myself today I'd get the 9800 XT. Once I had it running, then I'm sure I'd be able to have a more convincing argument in ATI's favor than I do now for my clients. They sit down at my machine now & play with it running 1280 x 1024 & 75 hz. & they want one just like it. I'm the one that usually has to break the ice.

Dazzle them with Brilliance, or Baffle them with BS! :wink:
October 3, 2003 5:46:15 PM

What games do you play RC?

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!
October 3, 2003 5:47:25 PM

Sure is different than the first time we talked, remember that? ROTFLMAO :wink:

Dazzle them with Brilliance, or Baffle them with BS! :wink:
October 3, 2003 5:59:14 PM

Shooters! Right now I'm spending a lot of time on Serious Sam 2nd Encounter. I love to just run & gun. I play SOFL 2, NOLF 2 a lot as well.

I was on Tribes 1 & 2, with a clan for a long time. Order Of Draco. Our symbol looks like this, ()|). My son still plays 3 or 4 nights a week on a team. They're trying to recruit me right now, but I'm not sure if I'm ready to play that much again. On the other hand, Tribes 3 is coming & I want to play that. So I should start playing again to hone my skills a bit before it comes out. I'm still registered at WOGL but it's been a long time since I've been active.

Dazzle them with Brilliance, or Baffle them with BS! :wink:
October 3, 2003 6:11:08 PM

I don't think I've ever in my life met a man of your age that actually enjoys 3D games, that's so awesome.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!
October 3, 2003 6:20:09 PM

I'm still going on 18 really! :lol: 

Dazzle them with Brilliance, or Baffle them with BS! :wink:
October 3, 2003 6:34:06 PM

Maybe Eden & WS is. But as for you & I, we wish. Isn't your age equivalent to the number of cards there are in a stnadard single deck without Jokers?

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!
October 3, 2003 6:51:49 PM

ROTFLMAF

I've never heard it put that way. :lol: 

In about a week or so, that won't be true anymore.

Memo to self, don't read Forum while swigging beer!!! *heads to get paper towels for monitor*


Dazzle them with Brilliance, or Baffle them with BS! :wink:
October 3, 2003 7:52:22 PM

RC I totally respect your opinion and I look highly on you for handling things like a true salesman does to his valued customers.

As WS said though, no one has everything, and most of the time, basing our opinion on stability and drivers comes from various very credible sources. Not to mention the incredible amount of FX5x00 problems we hear of in this forum, like BSODs, blacks screens, etc.
We pushed two people here to jump ships, amazingly their systems went flawlessly running the 9800s.

What my goal was towards Flame, is to show him that he is basing his opinion on dated facts, some that no longer apply. Is it ethical for a salesman to have an opinion that is 2-3 years old when technology and the company itself changes in time?
Suppose the demand rose for Windows, but the salesman stopped since WinME's disaster. Where is his opinion valuable when WinXP has been proven to be downright stable with new hardware?
I realize Flame recommended some ATis, but it still won't change the fact he has a stigma from them and rather than checking the real facts here and on other sites, he still bases his future purchases, whether for himself, or for a family member (especially, since he wants Quadros for his rig), on old outdated experience. It would be understandable if the case was still as bad as the pre-Radeon 8500 days, but it is so differnent now.

That is what I am trying to say.

Now of course, as to your first point on gamers wanting other than ATi, that is relative, I'd say. His region, Flamey's, seems to be almost cursed with ATi problems. Can't say the same for here. I know many who bought the new Radeons with no problems.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 3, 2003 7:58:34 PM

Actually, I thought the Radeon 7xxx cards were decent products as well in addition to the 8500+

Edit: I mean Back in their day of course.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by UFO_WARVIPER on 10/03/03 03:59 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
October 3, 2003 8:29:25 PM

Mmm, any vid card that goes into my system is stress tested like nothing else. I run benches galore on it and push it in 3d till it begs for mercy. When I reccomend a GF3/4, you can be sure I only do so because I personally have had experience with em for a long time. (This was a hard learned lesson some time ago with the TFT7020 LCD's.....yeeesh!)

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 3, 2003 8:35:30 PM

My family members for whom I would be making comp purchases are my 7 and 3 year old brothers...wait, they don't use the comp and a 200Mhz w/ 16MB vid card does more than enough....
Eden, I've had several very very aggrivating experiences with Ati cards, some even not so old, and from those I refuse to buy an Ati card for myself. When I "reccomend" an Ati card here (which has been very few times) I merely say yeah, looks good on the benches. I can't reccomend one as I've had nothing but bad experiences and haven't personally looked at the R9800. And btw, the last experience w/ an Ati card was this summer.
When I put a card in a box for one of my friends or customers, I put in something which I know will work right. I cannot risk having to spend time to go over and fix it cause the drivers crapped up. Thus, Ati falls out of the picture.
The reason I would go for a Volari btw is that they have been untested, and it'd be for personal use.

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 3, 2003 8:41:45 PM

I believe it. So do I as a matter of fact.

Dazzle them with Brilliance, or Baffle them with BS! :wink:
a b U Graphics card
October 3, 2003 8:47:11 PM

Ahh excuses, excuses.

I wouldn't buy an nV card caused you'd never know which features they wanna disable this month.

Go with a Matrox card, go for image quality.

F'in gamers, you're ruining the business! :tongue:


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
October 3, 2003 8:50:32 PM

Quote:
When I put a card in a box for one of my friends or customers, I put in something which I know will work right. I cannot risk having to spend time to go over and fix it cause the drivers crapped up. Thus, Ati falls out of the picture.

Yes, but its been 3 years since ATi's seriously crapped up on drivers. If anyone's "crapped up" on drivers as of lately, I could only point :eek:  ,, errr I mean <b>Flip</b> :evil:  the finger at nVidia. But seriously, you're living in the past. ATi's drivers used to suck, they don't now. The Community has had more headaches with <b>nVidia</b> drivers and their crappy image quality and cheats on benchmarks as of lately. I'm not trying to be mean or put you down by saying all this. I'm just trying to lay my finger on the truth for ya. Will you even give ATi's new products a chance? You said you tested a "new" ATi product but what was it that you tested? If you had some PowerColor "Powered By ATi card", then the problem lies with PowerColor I would imagine. Or maybe your friend had a crappy powersupply. To make a true unbiased conclusion, you have to test all "reasonable" unknown variables before dropping the judge's mallet and laying out the law. To be honest, I don't know to what extent you troubleshot the card, but somehow I figure you didn't spend too long before jumping on the conclusion that it was ATi's drivers. In fact, I don't blame you if you formed such a conclusion, because in the past that was a very valid place to start pinpointing the problem.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!
October 3, 2003 9:13:52 PM

LMAO You could be entirely right. :lol: 

BTW Sleds are being worked on, ready for the deep stuff.

Are the skis waxed? :wink:

Dazzle them with Brilliance, or Baffle them with BS! :wink:
October 3, 2003 9:50:31 PM

Come on, I'm not that stupid. Power supplies, everything was tested. By when CS and other games start giving me sh!t about rendering in ogl or d3d, and I get annoyed. Like I said, latest experience was this summer, that's not 3 years ago.

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 3, 2003 9:52:17 PM

Okay, I was just checking to make abosolutely sure. :cool:

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!
October 4, 2003 12:17:45 AM

Ok, here is a key question then: If ATi's FireGLs one day actually completely stomp nVidia's workstation cards, would you buy one or still risk paying like 800$ more for the lower performing card?

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 4, 2003 12:21:08 AM

Quote:
When I put a card in a box for one of my friends or customers, I put in something which I know will work right. I cannot risk having to spend time to go over and fix it cause the drivers crapped up. Thus, Ati falls out of the picture.

Now one could say taking statistical data in this forum alone is not representative, but I've had my share of exploration, and it has been almost garanteed a new system+ ATi=no problems whatsoever.

Are you always putting cards in new systems for your friends?
Are these systems garanteed to run right?
Would you dare put an FX5900 Ultra in a buddy's 300W system?

These are all questions that make me go the extra bit in curiosity, wondering just how credible are your conclusions. As for the CS thing, didn't people here and ATi confirm and fix recently an OpenGL bug in CS?


--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 4, 2003 12:25:07 AM

You know you can hard-mod certain GeForce cards and turn them into Quadros. If Flamey so sold on this Quadro stuff, I wonder why he doesn't pick up a GeForce card for about a quarter of the cost & then take the risk. He'd have to flub at least 5 unrecoverable times for it NOT to be worth the risk!

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!
October 4, 2003 12:27:04 AM

Then again, that could take considerable time to solder all that stuff & not to mention all the right equipment.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!
a b U Graphics card
October 4, 2003 12:38:54 AM

Nope, but I did take them out of the closet 3 weeks ago when the snow blanketed the city (I think God was saying Psyche! :evil:  ).

Looking for new boots at the opening sales. Saw some nice ones at the University pre-season sale, but no bargains there!

I might be going back to the cottage, North Bay, for X-mas, so I may get to do some riding when I get back. Can't wait to hit the lakes and especially the rivers (nothing beats riverbeads for fun IMO).

Let it snow, Let it Snow, Let it SNOW!

Got the skiis shined up grab a stick wicky root... :wink:

OOh Yeah!


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
October 4, 2003 12:55:22 AM

Quote:
Would you dare put an FX5900 Ultra in a buddy's 300W system?

Eden, I wouldn't touch a buddy's system that had a 300W PSU to start with. I consider 430W the Min. I always build with at least that. Maybe there's one difference.

Dazzle them with Brilliance, or Baffle them with BS! :wink:
October 4, 2003 1:09:56 AM

We are getting ready every weekend. The early snows just wet the appetite, Trails don't open until Dec. 1. But if there's rideable snow, sleds are goin ridin!!!! :wink:

Dazzle them with Brilliance, or Baffle them with BS! :wink:
October 4, 2003 1:53:16 AM

Then that's perfectly great. I just hope you're no longer recommending FX cards. Customers will get truly pissed if they tried HL2 with the drivers given, or some DX9 game.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
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