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Question about the new Radeons

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LagunaSol   10-04-2003 at 06:05:16 AM

From what I understand from the articles I've been reading, the 9800XT replaces the 9800 Pro and the 9600XT replaces the 9600 Pro. OK, fine, but the 9800XT is $499 and the 9600XT is $199. That's a pretty big spread. What card falls in the middle? Will there still be a 9800 SE? Or a 9800 Non-Pro? And how do you think the 9600XT will compare to a current 9800 Non-Pro? I just picked up a Non-Pro at Best Buy for $250, but if the 9600XT will give it a run for its money at $199, plus include Half-Life 2...

Here's hoping the 9600XT is out before my 30-day return period is up on the 9800 Non-Pro, just in case.

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UFO_WARVIPER   10-04-2003 at 06:08:04 AM
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I'll have to check & see if I can find some benchmarks that indicate hhow well the Radeon 9600XT performs. You raise a very iteresting question.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

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cdpage   10-04-2003 at 06:22:54 AM
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has the 9700's been discontinued?



ASUS P4S8X - P4 2.4B - 2 x 512M DDR333 - ATI 9500 Pro(Sapphire) - WD 80G HD (8M Buffer) - SAMSUNG SV0844D 8G HD - LG 16X DVD - Yamaha F1 CDRW - Iomega Zip 250 int.

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Crashman   10-04-2003 at 07:04:43 AM
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9800SE doesn't fall between the 9600XT and 9800XT, it falls between the 9200 Pro (whatever they call the faster version) and the 9600 Pro.

9800SE has 128-bit RAM clocked slower than a 9600 Pro, and 4-pipelines on a chip clocked slower than the 9600 Pro. It's identicle to the 9500 non-pro, except for BIOS.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

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Crashman   10-04-2003 at 07:06:40 AM
- 0 +

Yes, the R300 core to the best of my knowledge has been discontinued. Remaining stock is most likely being used for AIW cards until it runs out.

That's why the 9800SE replaces the 9500 non-pro, using the same parts on a defective R350 core.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

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LagunaSol   10-04-2003 at 08:26:16 AM
- 0 +

So the 9700 remains the intermediary model between the 9600XT and the 9800XT, with the 9800 Pro being discontinued? But one of the articles I read said the 9600XT will likely match or exceed the performance of the the 9700. If true, how does the 9700 remain in the lineup?

And is this how the lineup now falls, from lowest to highest?

9600XT
9800SE
9700 (Pro?)
9800XT

I'm confused...

Reply to LagunaSol
Willamette_sucks   10-04-2003 at 08:29:53 AM
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The 9800 Pro is not being discontinued.


Stop asking people "whats up" or "hows it goin", you know you don't give a sh*t. And noone cares how you're doing either.

"We are far less than we knew." - Bright Eyes

Reply to Willamette_sucks
LagunaSol   10-04-2003 at 08:32:08 AM
- 0 +

From Anandtech's article on the 9600XT and 9800XT:

"According to ATI, the Radeon 9600 XT should be the first mainstream part to outperform the Radeon 9700 Pro in all situations – not bad for a $199 card."

So my question remains, which Radeon now fills the massive $300 void between the 9600XT and the 9800XT?

http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1890&p=3

Reply to LagunaSol
Willamette_sucks   10-04-2003 at 08:46:01 AM
- 0 +

I highly doubt it will outperform the 9700 Pro in all situations. That's uber BS.


Stop asking people "whats up" or "hows it goin", you know you don't give a sh*t. And noone cares how you're doing either.

"We are far less than we knew." - Bright Eyes

Reply to Willamette_sucks
LagunaSol   10-04-2003 at 08:48:08 AM
- 0 +

OK, that part makes sense. So the 9800XT replaces the 9800 Pro 256, the 9800 Pro 128 remains in the lineup, followed by the 9700 Pro, then the 9600XT (which supposedly will trump the 9700 Pro?).

Does anyone expect prices of the 9800 Pro 128 to fall, or will they remain stable as the 9800 Pro 128 retains its place in the lineup?

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LagunaSol   10-04-2003 at 08:59:48 AM
- 0 +

Williamette, the discussion at Anandtech on this topic seems to agree with you re: 9600XT vs. 9700 Pro:

http://forums.anandtech.com/messag [...] id=1152445

I guess bottom line is: should I be keeping the 9800 Non-Pro I just picked up from Best Buy for $250, remaining competitive and stable price-wise? The 9600XT won't be outperforming my non-overclocked 9800 NP, right?

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siranthony   10-04-2003 at 09:36:58 AM
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I think you question would be better answered if you tried to overclock your 9800 non pro. You may be able to clock it to 9800 pro levels. That would make it a very good bargain. If your willing to mod it with a better cooling solution you can even beat the 9800 pro. Either way I don't think you can go wrong. If you need the extr 50 bucks take the 9800 back. You won't be losing anything with the 9800 if you keep it. By the way the 9800 non pro apears to be discontinued. It's getting to be a rare bird. I would keep it.

P4 2.4c @ 3.0 ASUS P4P800 dx Geil Golden Dragon PC4000 2.5,3,3,6 250FSB 1:1 Radeon 9800 non-pro 2 Maxtor 60gig 7200rpm 8mb cach in raid 0 SB Audigy 2 Antec True 480

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LagunaSol   10-04-2003 at 09:43:22 AM
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I haven't cracked open the box to see which memory chips I got (Samsung or Infineon). Still waiting for my 2500+ and mobo to arrive. Case, power supply, and hard drive are installed and waiting. This is my first PC in 10+ years. I love my Dual G4 Mac, but looking at previews of Half-Life 2 was killing me, so I decided to build a gaming box. Mac for work, video, photos, surfing, casual fun, and most everything else, PC for hardcore fun (i.e. games only). :)

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siranthony   10-04-2003 at 10:56:17 AM
- 0 +

The infineons are still good. Just not as overclockable. But overclockable to 9800 pro levels.

P4 2.4c @ 3.0 ASUS P4P800 dx Geil Golden Dragon PC4000 2.5,3,3,6 250FSB 1:1 Radeon 9800 non-pro 403core 335mem 2 Maxtor 60gig 7200rpm 8mb cach in raid 0 SB Audigy 2 Antec True 480

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Turk   10-04-2003 at 11:26:04 AM
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Ehum, there are two versions of the 9800se and one has a 256mb memorybus! And I guess that this version actually should be faster then the 9600pro!

Turk

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LagunaSol   10-04-2003 at 06:57:37 PM
- 0 +

Regarding cards with the Infineon chips, should those be overclocked with software only (Rage 3D Tweaker) or can they handle being flashed with the 9800 Pro BIOS?

Reply to LagunaSol
addiarmadar   10-04-2003 at 08:23:45 PM
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Nothing is getting replaced. The XTs are just another stepup with another bigger pricetag. They are the fancier on wat is already out there.

F-DISK-Format-Reinstal DO DA!! DO DA!!

Reply to addiarmadar
siranthony   10-04-2003 at 10:50:09 PM
- 0 +

Flashing to the pro bios won't do anything for the infineon cards.

P4 2.4c @ 3.0 ASUS P4P800 dx Geil Golden Dragon PC4000 2.5,3,3,6 250FSB 1:1 Radeon 9800 non-pro 403core 335mem 2 Maxtor 60gig 7200rpm 8mb cach in raid 0 SB Audigy 2 Antec True 480

Reply to siranthony
Crashman   10-05-2003 at 01:51:29 AM
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Yes, there are two versions, but try finding the 256-bit version! And there was a site that tested BOTH versions against the 9800 Pro, 9600 Pro, and 9500 Pro. The 9800SE 256-bit they tested came with clocked up 2.8ns RAM, and STILL couldn't perform as well as the 9600 Pro! I think the superior clock speed of the 9600 Pro processor was more significant than the 256-bit bus of the non-standard 9800SE.

Also, even if you're lucky enough to FIND a 9800SE 256-bit, you think it's going to come with clocked up 2.8ns RAM? Heh, these rare cards are far more likely to come with the crappy 3.3ns RAM of their 128-bit siblings!

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

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Crashman   10-05-2003 at 01:59:40 AM
- 0 +

NO, the 9700 Pro hasn't been in the lineup for a long time, quite trying to find a place to stick it, before I tell you where to stick it!

I've already told you the R300 is DEAD. That's why the 9800SE is being produced instead of the 9500 non-pro, on the same 9500 non-pro cards, it's how they get rid of R350 cores with minor defects.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

Reply to Crashman
Crashman   10-05-2003 at 05:29:01 AM
- 0 +

The current lineup, from worst to best as you would have it:

9600
9800SE
9600 Pro
9600XT
9800 Pro
9800 XT

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

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TheGreatGrapeApe   10-05-2003 at 05:42:32 AM
- 0 +

What about the R9800non-pro? I know they are rarer but aren't they still out there?


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil:

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LagunaSol   10-05-2003 at 06:25:21 AM
- 0 +

There is still a $200 difference between the 9800 Pro ($399) and the 9600 XT ($199), so I imagine it would be smart to leave the 9800 ($299) in there. But what do I know, I'm not a marketing guy.

It will be interesting to see how the 9600 XT compares to the 9800. $199 with Half-Life 2 is quite a deal. I paid $250 for my 9800 (Non-Pro). Add $50 for HL2 and I'm at $300. Is the 9800 Non-Pro $100 better than the 9600XT? Time will tell.

Reply to LagunaSol
Crashman   10-05-2003 at 07:18:18 AM
- 0 +

I don't think any new 9800 non-pros are being produced, I think these cards are getting rare because they're no longer current production items.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

Reply to Crashman
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