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3dlabs vs radeon 9800 pro

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October 13, 2003 8:40:59 AM

As of now I am looking to buy a new video card that isnt nvidia based. My most previous card was a fx5900/not ultra, that went dead on me after 8 days!!

I was wondering what would be better for a new card. I work with autocad 2002 3d/2d drawings. I also like to play games.

My question is would a Radeon 9800pro or the(3dlabs) Wildcat VP880 Pro and or the VP970 be better? To me the cards from 3dlabs might run circles around these other cards, I dont know, the way they are designed.

The thing Im worried about playing games on the 3Dlabs cards is the frame rate.

How do games rank on those type of cards(3dlabs)?

Any link/input on this subject would be beneficial!!

More about : 3dlabs radeon 9800 pro

Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2003 1:18:36 AM

Captain Obvious recommends the R9800pro or non-pro cards in the 128mb variety!

An excellent card at a good price point.

THe Captain also recommends Asus, Gigabyte, Sapphire or stock ATI brands!

<b><font color=red>Captain Obvious To The Rescue!!!</font color=red></b>
October 14, 2003 1:38:15 AM

In all honesty, the NV cards will serve u better for those programs because they are meant for OGL. I suggest u get that FX5900 replaced or get an FX5950...

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
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a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2003 1:39:31 AM

Autocad is a fairly low end CAD program that really won't stress ANY video card. I mention this because I know a lot of guys are going to recommend whatever they consider to be the "Best" OpenGL card.

Look, I run Solidworks on an old Radeon DDR. The oldest Radeon card around. And a really high end program such as SDRC Ideas will still run on an old GeForce2. So really I'd make your decision purely based on GAMES, since you don't need a true professional card for your software.

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a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2003 1:41:08 AM

Ah, you beat me to it. But the fact is, OGL doesn't matter, ALL current cards have adequate support for the type of modelling he's doing.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
October 14, 2003 1:41:11 AM

Erm, if he gets a complex design in there it will stress the hell out of the vid card...

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2003 1:43:20 AM

I design CARS on a Radeon DDR.

And if he really needed a professional card, that's 3D Labs specialty. But since he doesn't, the point is moot.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
October 14, 2003 1:46:02 AM

Ok, u design cars. How complex are your models? I mean I could make u a simplistic car that'd run on my 200Mhz w/ a 2MB cirrus logic. Plus, more complex things can be done...

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2003 1:51:48 AM

BTW, recommending a professional card for autocad is like Intel advertizing P4's as the "ultimate CPU for surfing the internet".

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
October 14, 2003 1:56:32 AM

No it isn't Crash. The drivers are more optimized for OGL, have hardware lines turned on, and they offer neat optimizations and tools like powerdraft.

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2003 2:05:12 AM

When I say cars, I mean complete chassis (down to the hardware) with body shells. I used to do stress testing on the models back at the school.

I suppose if I added a complete engine and complete transmission and rendered everything in multicollored translucency, it COULD be a problem for my elderly card, but newer cards are 4x as powerfull so I don't see the problem.

Yes, I suppose a P4 3.0GHz IS better at bringing up web pages than a 386, but the fact remains that a Pentium 1 would have no problems doing that task. And that parallels the types of card recommendations I see for people doing 3D modelling.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
October 14, 2003 2:16:32 AM

Bringing up a web page does not take much power as compared to cad or 3d work. Plus, it is does not depend on everything running that smoothly cause I can wait 5 mins to access my email, I can't wait 5 mins for my vid card to render a frame when I'm editing an object.

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 14, 2003 2:18:16 AM

I too would suggest the gaming card. CAD programs are not THAT intensive... unless like you guys are thinking, this guy/girl is working on massive projects.

I say we wait till we find out what type of things they are doing before saying what is better.

however one thing to consider, CAD programs are getting more and more intencive, and it might prove benificial to get a card that will last as long as possibile for the CAD work rather then the gaming side of things... unless of coarse the gaming is making money somehow.

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October 14, 2003 4:43:35 AM

Thanks for the info so far! I think I will look more towards the ati 9800. Im running a geforce3 TI500 card and it handles the 2d drawings ok, when it comes to 16mb 3d drawings in bogs down a little. With whats going on with nvidia "DX9" problems/cheating?!? The 9800 looks pretty good!!
October 14, 2003 4:51:15 AM

the DX9 cheating/problems thing will be solved very soon hopefully;). I suggest holding on to ur card until Det 52s come out and then decide whether to replace it or not? if ur in a hurry to replace it.... just go RMA the card first....

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a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2003 5:08:38 AM

Right, but my comparison was a P4 to a Pentium 1 bringing up a web page, being likened to a specialty card versus a gaming card bringing up a CADD rendering. Most people can wait a second or two to bring up a rendering.

You might need more power to render a highly complex simulation in real time, but you can always wait a few minutes on anything that complex because the replay will be smooth.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2003 3:52:48 PM

Flamey, actually the WildcatIV is an awesome card line and often outperforms the Quadros. Yes the ones he's looking at aren't the very best (the P series is a weak Wildcat), but it'll handle most things, and an R9800 will do the basics, and when we are talking about gaming performance the R9800 will give more bang for the buck. I agree theFX5900U in SoftQuadro would likely be best for the HARDCORE workstation stff, but I doubt that it would make as MUCH difference for the casual user and the difference between the R9700 and the Quadros isn't THAT high to warrant going wih the FX5900U for more money IMO. But that's just MY opinoion.

He's the most recent review I have that compares the gaming and qorkstation cards, icluding ALL the cards he's looking t (well and R9700P and the R9800 in the guise of an FireGLX2 and FX5800 in Quadro 2000 mode);

Are the differences enough? I doubt it.

<A HREF="http://www.3dchips.net/content/review.php?id=63" target="_new">http://www.3dchips.net/content/review.php?id=63&lt;/A>

It really depends on the app. and the valu you place on what is sometimes only SLIGHT performance improvements.

The Low end Wildcats are definitely NOT for serious gaming, but should handle casual gaming like and R9000/9100/9200 IMO.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
October 15, 2003 6:29:40 AM

That was a good link!! Answered/Cleared some things up. Id go after the quadro fx3000, but it would leave a big hole in my wallet. Thanks again for the help!
a b U Graphics card
October 16, 2003 3:33:57 AM

The 9800 Pro is more than enough of an OGL card for most professionals. The information you're getting is missleading. Unless you plan on rendering extremely complex images such as a complete fighter jet with all the internal excessories in translucency so you can see them, you'll probably never be able to appreciate the OGL power of a "professional" card. Most pros are using far less. Which is why I tried to point you towards an excellent gaming card that has more OGL power than most professionals need.

A frame of reference would be nice. What card are you using now, and how bad is it lagging with YOUR projects?

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
October 17, 2003 11:18:54 AM

The wildcat cards are proffesional cars, for profesional applications and programs.
They are designed for that use and to be used heavily in OpenGL.

9800pro and FX5900 are fine if you're doing only a little work with them, but they are just not designed for the use and heavy use of 3D programs (Maya) or CADs and stuff. They are for games and for DX8/9 based stuff. They're like trying to build a tabe with toothpicks and skicky tape.

For this reason both ATI and Nvidia have 'game' cards and 'worksation cards', they are both two different tools for two different things.
But theoredically, the proffesional OGL cards, eg. Wildcat, Quadro and FireGL would be able to play any Open GL games, but i doubt they'd play any normal game to date.


so basically decide on what you really want the card for and make your desicion bassed on that.
If you really want the best way to go would be to have two systems, though it would cost a bit.
But you will note a HUGE difference with a Wildcat card compared to a 9800pro is seriouse 3d or CAD work.

<font color=red>If My Dog Had A Face As Ugly As Yours, I'd Shave Its Bum and Walk It Backwards!</font color=red>
October 17, 2003 12:55:51 PM

Quote:
the DX9 cheating/problems thing will be solved very soon hopefully;). I suggest holding on to ur card until Det 52s come out and then decide whether to replace it or not? if ur in a hurry to replace it.... just go RMA the card first....





solved very soon? wow what inside sources have you come up with coolsquirtle?




otherwise, stop lieing. this guy is spending real life money here...

-------


................
a b U Graphics card
October 17, 2003 9:51:30 PM

Actually look at the benchmarks again. The Wildcats (unfortunately no Wildcat IV) and the R9700P were very close in the MAYA, 3DsMax and Inventor benchmarks trading spots. And in the Solidworks spinning/moving model benchmarks, the R9700P does better than both Wildcats, with Spec it's a Wildat advantage, although the advanaage lessens under Athlon MPs.

So I don't see the HUGE difference you speak of. Now if we were talking about a Wildcat IV, you'd probably be right, but those cards cost about 4-5 times as much as the Radeons and FXs, and about 50% more than a Quadro 2000.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
October 18, 2003 7:03:00 AM

to tell you the truth i don't really know how to read those results :-) if that's the case that the 9700Pro is nearly as goods as the Wildcat, then why would anybody, let alone large professional/comercial companies buy wildcats or quatros for there work when they could save wads of $$$ on just standard 'gamer' cards. (i think that in those bencmarks they must have used standard 'simpler' scenes, not really testing the cards)

But as i said, you have to consider how you're using the card, if it is only for simple, uncomplexe things, then, by all means, i agree that the 9800Pro will do just as good a job as any card (it's just Alias (i.e. Maya) doesn't support 'gamer cards').

I'm not saying to get a Wildcat or anything, i'm just pointing out, if you're working with programs and scenes that a 'big' you'd then consider a professional 'workstation' card.
But if you only do a bit of stuff and play games any other time, then, do as i did, get a high end 'gamer card'. It'll do fine. :-D (I acutally work with maya 4.5)

<font color=red>If My Dog Had A Face As Ugly As Yours, I'd Shave Its Bum and Walk It Backwards!</font color=red><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by krazy on 10/18/03 03:05 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
a b U Graphics card
October 18, 2003 8:01:13 AM

Quote:
(i think that in those bencmarks they must have used standard 'simpler' scenes, not really testing the cards)

No they are standard benchmarks, you can download the SPEC ViewPerf ones yourself. And the results aren't different from many of the other reviews.

Quote:

then why would anybody, let alone large professional/comercial companies buy wildcats or quatros for there work when they could save wads of $$$ on just standard 'gamer' cards.

Well you pretty much answer your own question but I'm not sure if you intended to (depends on how you read your wording)

<font color=blue>(it's just Alias (i.e. Maya) doesn't support 'gamer cards').</font color=blue>

Exactly. That's why. Workstation cards go through certification processes which means that when people are buying they match their industry's standards. The companies don't go through the effort of certifying gaming cards. I hope that's what you meant by support, because the cards do work well with it. The main thing is that the people usually buying this stuff don't know much about the actual cards themselves, likely didn't even know you could use gaming cards. They usually aren't the people using the systems either, and very often they get their recommendations from the industry of from nice glossy adds that tout one cards performance over another and being certified up the ying-yang. All of that doesn't mean we can't be smarter and put our money to better use (like buying full versions of software, getting more mem. , faster cpu, etc.) Big companies expenditures on extravagances is nothing new. Heck I've got a $1500 MONITOR at my desk at work, which I probably wouldn't buy for myself (well not without a SWEET discount), but I love it every day I use it. And if I could request one, I'd get a matrox Parhelia to match it (or better yet an HR 256), and add 2/3 more 1000+ monitors, so I could be VERY productive.

Here's Alias' Qualification tables for both <A HREF="http://www.alias.com/eng/support/maya/qualified_hardwar..." target="_new">Maya 4.5</A> and <A HREF="http://www.alias.com/eng/support/maya/qualified_hardwar..." target="_new">Maya 5.0</A>, so I guess if you are using 4.5 then it TECHNICALLY doesn't support the VP990, Quadro 1000/2000, or the FireGL Z1 or T2. Too bad, time to upgrade I guess, right?

And considering that you CAN softmod the R9700 and R9800 to FireGL, then they would perform almost identically.

However still, the R9600Pro and R9700/9800non-pro would be a MUCH better investment than a card costing twice as much money (Any FireGL, Any Wildat, and even the Low-end Quadro 500, let alone the 1000 or 2000.

Unless he's doing this for a living, getting payed very well to do his work, or has money to throw away then the Radeons are the right choice IMO. And if he DOES fit one of those three categories the right answer is to get 2 sperate cards/rigs like I have, although I'm mainly 2D for now, and not as heavily into, 3D animation, YET (gotta start giving my movie shorts some EXTRA Oomph).


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
October 18, 2003 2:12:41 PM

You guys forget that you can install FireGL drivers on a 9800 Pro and it will outperform in OpenGL all the time.

----------
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a b U Graphics card
October 19, 2003 1:49:40 AM

I didn't :wink:


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a b U Graphics card
October 19, 2003 5:11:37 AM

Read the rest of the post, people like krazy talking out the wrong end of their anatomy about things they don't understand, but if you give them enough information you'll find that you're better off with a gaming card in most cases.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
October 19, 2003 5:17:16 AM

i said "hopefully" -_-

RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
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a b U Graphics card
October 23, 2003 4:49:42 AM

I know he already bought his 9800 Pro, and I know he's happy with it, but for future reference <A HREF="http://www.sysopt.com/reviews/ati-AiW9600Pro/index.html" target="_new">Here's a review of the AIW 9600 Pro which included the SPEC Solidworks 2003 benchmark</A>

Now if the 9600 Pro can do THAT well, the 9800 Pro should do much better still, considering it has twice the rendering pipelines and memory bandwidth!

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
October 23, 2003 6:57:58 AM

Nice....

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