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fx5800 - should I slap myself?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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October 14, 2003 11:52:59 PM

ok the ancient gf256 is getting a bit old in my box, so I have been putting a lot of research into what a fair card to replace it.

The cards I am considering at the moment are either rad 9600pro based or gf fx5600 ultra based. (to give you an idea of my price range)
However I have also noticed that an ocasional shop also has fx5800(non ultra)'s for sale, particlary the Leadtek verson, for a substantially reduced price.

Now the question is, am I stupid to even consider getting a fx5800 or is the leadtek version altered enough to be a worthwile contender?

In terms of prices this is the line up (in AUSTRALIAN dollars)

radeon 9600pro based 128meg: about $300
fx5600 ultra based 128meg: about $420
fx5800 non ultra 128meg: $499

My use of this card is not only gaming, I do a lot of 3d grapics in Ligtwave, Maya and MAX so I would like a superior openGL card if possible. I would be willing to spend the extra cash for a fx5800 if this sounds like a good deal.

show me the answers!

More about : fx5800 slap

October 15, 2003 12:08:27 AM

The GF will offer better performance, lemme just check some prices online...<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by flamethrower205 on 10/14/03 08:10 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
October 15, 2003 12:13:41 AM

Out of those three, I would strongly suggest the 9600 Pro (or wait a couple of weeks for the 9600XT). The DX9 performance is excellent and it's a good overclocker. I'm not sure about OpenGL performance but it's probably very good. I would stay away from GeForceFX cards altogether.
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October 15, 2003 12:22:39 AM

Another vote for the 9600 Pro.

SIGNATURE: Stop asking people "whats up" or "hows it goin", you know you don't give a sh*t. And noone cares how you're doing either.

"We are far less than we knew." - Bright Eyes
October 15, 2003 12:45:53 AM

but WHY people??
dont just say "get 9600pro"!

The fx5800 appear between 50% and 150% faster than the 9600pro in all tests including with fsaa and aniso.

The point of the question is: is getting a fx5800 at a relativly low price a good idea? Whats peoples thoughts on the leadtek version? Is it cool and quiet enough?
October 15, 2003 12:51:41 AM

The reason y we say 9600pro is because 9600pro outperforms the 5800 in any single DX9 Benchmark and by ALOT. the 9600pro also overclocks much better, the 5800 overclocks like crap because you can't keep it cool enough. So the cheaper 9600pro's actually a better card just because all the new games that are coming out uses DX9.

-Intel PIV 2.4C @ 3.84G -Asus P4P800 -OCZ Copper 2x256 4000EL memory @ 275mhz 3-4-4-8 -Sapphire 9800pro @ 490/780 -SB audigy -80G Maxtor Diamond Plus9 Ultra ATA-133 hdd -450 Enermax PSU
October 15, 2003 1:10:05 AM

All tests? give a link on DX9 games.

-Intel PIV 2.6C @ 3.51G -Asus P4P800 -OCZ Copper 2x256 4000EL memory @ 270mhz 2.5-4-4-8 -Sapphire 9800pro @ 490/780 -SB audigy -120G Maxtor Diamond Plus9 S-ATA150 hdd -450 Enermax PSU
October 15, 2003 1:17:14 AM

One of his main concerns is OGL. The GF tears up the arena in that aspect.

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 15, 2003 1:23:08 AM

Didn't read that last part in his post, then if 5800's on sale or cheap then maybe get that, but it'll gurantee to hit up the room.

-Intel PIV 2.6C @ 3.51G -Asus P4P800 -OCZ Copper 2x256 4000EL memory @ 270mhz 2.5-4-4-8 -Sapphire 9800pro @ 490/780 -SB audigy -120G Maxtor Diamond Plus9 S-ATA150 hdd -450 Enermax PSU
October 15, 2003 1:28:50 AM

thats just the damm problem! There are basicly no recent benchmarks for the 5800, so im reduced to doing weird stuff like looking at a 5900 benchmark, then converting it to an aproximate 5800 value.
Then of course theres all the problem with the wacky nvida driver fiasco which can potentialy skew all the results way out.

but as this benchmark shows:
http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030918/index.htm...
the 5900u grinds the 9600pro badly (dx9 I assume). So converting that over to a 5800 non pro I would still think the 5800 would win over a 9600pro by a significant amount.
October 15, 2003 1:43:43 AM

That isn't really a DX9 test...only a fraction of it is. Additionally, the fx5800nu was only a little better than newer 5600ultra, which is shown in that test. Also, the 9600pro is cheaper.
However, if you really will be doing a lot of opengl (as in maya)...the 5800 is probably the way to go (i'm trying to dig up some benchies--tough time trying to find the 5800,though, only quadros are tested most of the time though).

RDRAM = ENEMY
October 15, 2003 2:06:26 AM

ah fux it all.
tell me a good 9600pro to buy. Or should I wait for the 9600xt to come out? Which is when?
a b U Graphics card
October 15, 2003 2:47:12 AM

There are Half Life 2 test at many sites including Tom's, showing all the FX cards faltering badly in DX9.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
October 15, 2003 2:50:49 AM

go ahead and get a sapphire 9600pro and OC the bejeezes out of it. i recommend newegg.com.

RDRAM = ENEMY
October 15, 2003 2:55:59 AM

so saphire is teh good? (hehe, I work at a university and I just saw someone's file whose first name was "Teh")
anyone confirm?

anyone tell me when the 9600xt ones will be out. I COULD sift through a million news posts n such... but bollicks ta that!
tell me someone.... telll meee......


<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Neuralstasis on 10/14/03 11:04 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
October 15, 2003 2:58:14 AM

this may be a little off topic just wandering how much do you get 9800np for?

-Intel PIV 2.6C @ 3.51G -Asus P4P800 -OCZ Copper 2x256 4000EL memory @ 270mhz 2.5-4-4-8 -Sapphire 9800pro @ 490/780 -SB audigy -120G Maxtor Diamond Plus9 S-ATA150 hdd -450 Enermax PSU
October 15, 2003 3:10:22 AM

in Australia I have seen several differnt places with $499 and one with $469
which = US$343 & US$323
and = 206 pounds & 193 pounds
October 15, 2003 3:11:34 AM

For a non-pro WOW that's wayyy too much, then just think about the 9600pro, it overclocks to the XT's frequencies easily.

-Intel PIV 2.6C @ 3.51G -Asus P4P800 -OCZ Copper 2x256 4000EL memory @ 270mhz 2.5-4-4-8 -Sapphire 9800pro @ 490/780 -SB audigy -120G Maxtor Diamond Plus9 S-ATA150 hdd -450 Enermax PSU
October 15, 2003 3:29:10 AM

for a comparison before you say "waaaay to much", in Aus a rad9600pro is worth about AUD$300
which = US$207
however, I can see on the shopping seach that a sapphire 9600pro is actually about US$165. So judging from that I would say that the 5800 price, if I bought it in the US, to be about US$275?
October 15, 2003 3:48:12 AM

I live in Canada so i wouldn't know in Canada the 5900(5800 is hard to find), is starting at 350 dollars, then price goes up brand from brand. 350 that's about 240US.

-Intel PIV 2.6C @ 3.51G -Asus P4P800 -OCZ Copper 2x256 4000EL memory @ 270mhz 2.5-4-4-8 -Sapphire 9800pro @ 490/780 -SB audigy -120G Maxtor Diamond Plus9 S-ATA150 hdd -450 Enermax PSU
October 15, 2003 3:56:12 AM

If you're not primarily using the graphics card for OpenGL apps, then get the 9600 Pro. It's way less expensive and it's a good value. The fx5800, on the other hand, is very expensive, it takes up two slots, it makes an awful whining noise, it plugs directly into your power supply (and sucks a lot of wattage), and the DX9 performance is mediocre.
October 15, 2003 4:18:32 AM

this is obviously a planned thread


its like hes playing with your arguements, urging you on so subtly but with tact

-------


................
October 15, 2003 4:21:39 AM

Surprisingly 5800 doesn't consume much power, the minimum requirement is a 250watt PSU.

-Intel PIV 2.6C @ 3.51G -Asus P4P800 -OCZ Copper 2x256 4000EL memory @ 270mhz 2.5-4-4-8 -Sapphire 9800pro @ 490/780 -SB audigy -120G Maxtor Diamond Plus9 S-ATA150 hdd -450 Enermax PSU
October 15, 2003 4:35:38 AM

what makes you think this isnt just a legitimate buncha questions about what card to buy???

>Neuralstasis: Head of Nvidia (or ATI...)<
>Acting Head of the Men In Black<
>Grand Dragon of the KKK<
>Leader of the Free Masons<
October 15, 2003 5:52:29 AM

Buying a FX card is a major gamble. In the case of the 5800 it's a losing bet.

As for the legitimacy? Well every review out there doesn't recommend buying a FX card.

Yet for some weird reason people still ask...

_________________________________________
<font color=red>12 bit... The way games are meant to be played!</font color=red>
October 15, 2003 7:30:30 AM

Get a gigacube non pro 9800 for $450 Australian. This is the best card to get if your prepared to spend over $300.

If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!
October 15, 2003 2:21:53 PM

Gigacube?<b><font color=red>!</b></font color=red>

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!
October 15, 2003 3:28:21 PM

Yes as mentioned
What's the price of 9700regular/pro 9800regular/pro

Wooba Wooba
a b U Graphics card
October 15, 2003 10:06:02 PM

Actually here's an aswer to your original question (since you berated the others for not answering you);

<b>YES and NO! </b>

Simple enough?

Now I've showed you the answers, now you show me the money!


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
October 15, 2003 10:10:03 PM

[Dr. Evil] Show me the money! Show me the money! [/Dr. Evil]

<b>I help because you suck</b>
a b U Graphics card
October 15, 2003 10:41:25 PM

LOL :lol: 

"I'm with it, I'm hip, Tok-a Tok-a Tok-a Tok-a Tok-a Tok-a Tok-a, Hhuuu-uuuugh! Well don't look at me like I'm Frikin' Frankenstein..."

:evil: 


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
October 15, 2003 11:33:49 PM

:lol:  :smile: :lol: 

<b>I help because you suck</b>
October 16, 2003 12:52:09 AM

stop hijacking my thread you filthy hardware monkeys!
>chases away with broom

ahem, now someone mentioned a 9800 non pro.
This was going to be my next solution but it seems they are very rare, at least in australian computer shops. In fact the only one I could find in Brisbane (on the web anyawy)was a gigacube 9800np for AUD$460.
Now whats the deal with Gigacube, why do they suck?

And just to confuse myself even more, the farking 9600xt comes out with the added offer of free HL2, for aprox $350. That does sound good to me... (in a few weeks I hope anyway)
October 16, 2003 12:57:18 AM

Plz don't buy Gigacube.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!
October 16, 2003 6:35:37 AM

Nothing wrong with the gigacube cards here in Australia, go to Overclocker Australia and get some opinions.

http://www.overclockers.com.au/

If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!
a b U Graphics card
October 16, 2003 6:55:07 AM

Perhaps the Kiwis know something you guys don't. :tongue:

Check out Overclockers New Zealand's review;

<A HREF="http://www.overclockers.co.nz/ocnz/review.php?id=03vga0..." target="_new">http://www.overclockers.co.nz/ocnz/review.php?id=03vga0...;/A>

The fact that there is a PROD3 lite and PROC3 lite version as well as a PRO C3 version (the oly true PRO-like card) is simply meant to confuse unknowledgeable buyers. And their build quality is far from the best, with a spotty record of overclocking.
They, along with Powercolor, occupy my basement of ATI partners.

<b>BTW</b>, you could provide a link to the actual REVIEW by OCAU? I found NONE there for Gigacube. Checked their articles&reviews list (very few RECENT reviews in the Video Card section). Perhaps they simply linked to someone else's review in the news section?


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
October 16, 2003 9:49:57 AM

I didn't say there were any reviews there , just peoples opinions in the forums. Yea they have a few lite versions but what do you expect when your paying the same price for a 9600 as a Ti4200. You can get a 9600 pro with the clock at 400mhz and the ram at ddr 350 which is 700mhz. So yea a lot of kiwis thought they were getting a bargain but ended up with a 400mhs ram module, so what. My point though is this, you can pay $380 AUD for a gigabyte 9600pro or $450 for a Gigacube 9800np, up to you, just check the specks of the card as you check the specks of a cpu before you buy..

If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!
a b U Graphics card
October 16, 2003 3:31:08 PM

Yeah, but it's not just Kiwis getting burned. Both Powercolor and Gigacube boards get touted as PRO boards whn they are not. You can always find a handful of people who have good experiences when they get wha's adverised, and it works. Based on the feelings at Rage3D and other forums, there are ALOT of people getting burned on the Gigacube namig scheme. Surprisingly enough very FEW are getting burnt on the Powercolor's (as they decided to stick with standard Samsung Ram in most case, unlike thei R9700/R9800 boards), and many are finding better OCs fom the PC R9600P than the Gigabyte and Sapphire boards. The Gigacube boards however have a very bad rep. in this segment.

Still it's simply a case of buyer beware, but in Gigacube's cases you need to do alot more research than usual. And the number of reported issues (alot concerning bad mem. artifacts) and even poor core OC's, once again puts them at the bottom of the list. The R9800np is not a question here, if ou want to compare like with like fine, otherwise we can both find tons of 'better deals' on the .net

Also remember people ARE checng the SPECs, but htose specs don't match what's actually in the box. Most people when they go buy a Mustang GT, know what a GT's supposed to have in it. Getting a PRO that's no a pro is just outright trickery.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
October 16, 2003 9:46:58 PM

If you are doing a lot of 3D work, i can tell you first hand (something a lot of people around here REALLY need before they start shouting so loud) that Nvidia 5900Ultra works bloody amazingly with 3DSMax and Maya. I should think a 5800 would be close, but if you are a creative professional, i think you should be spending as much as you can afford. (I cant afford those nice new Quaddros :'[ )
However for gaming, it is more on par with a ati 9600Pro than the 9800Pro, but hey. Depends if you will really care about a few FPS lost playing HalfLife2 (WHICH WONT BE OUT FOR AGES!) as your professional applications fly at maximum speed. :D 
NVidia is not as bad as the press they are getting.
I bet i get soooo much flaming for this. ah well.

............................................
Render times? You'll find me down the pub...
October 16, 2003 10:53:17 PM

No flames from me, but your post's seem to try and make the statement that Nvidia's NV3x series is pretty good. The fact of the matter is that your card gets slapped around by an ATi card that cost's only $150.00 dollars U.S.
Bottom line.

<b>I help because you suck</b>
October 17, 2003 12:03:49 AM

thanks for the imput, much appreciated all.

Im just a bit too poor to be buying a Quadro I think as well. Trippleing the price for a tiny improvemnt and being "Maya Complient" is just utter bullshit from my point of view.
But however, from the researching and postage on this forums, I think I would rather take a 5-15% hit in my proffesional apps with a Radeon, than 20-30% hit in future games with a present geforceFX.

so I think my plan is this: do nothing until the next Nvidia cards come out properly and check them out, then make a decision between:
1. some brand of Radeon 9600xt (free HL2 = good)
2. powercolour Radeon 9800se (soft mod it to pro hopefully)
3. some brand of Nvidia new chip based card.

can anyone tell me when the next batch of nvida chips out?
a b U Graphics card
October 17, 2003 7:46:36 PM

I tinker with Maya, and do alot of picture and video editing on my dual AMD rig. I do all this with an R9000non-pro.

If I thought tha I was talking to someone where money was no object I'd suggest he go with what I do, which is to have 2 seperate rigs, and buy the cards best suited for each. I was considering upgrading to a FireGL card, but really still can't justify one despite he nice discount at the University (almost half-off). My 'gaming' rig has the R9500P (I' a mid-casual gamer, not hardcore IMO)
The R9600P can be moded to a FIRE GL T2 which is 'OK' for both, and a much better buy IMO.
Sure if you're a pro, then get the card that does YOUR specific APP well in your work rig, and then get a card that plays your favorite games and put it in your play rig.

Anyhoo, that was my take on it. The R9600P offers thebest of both worlds IMO, and I like the low power/low heat. The main thing is that even an FX5800/5900 is MUCH MUCH more expensive, and for someone coming up from a much lower card,this will likely see marke improvement, and not be bad. The R9700np, and R9800np would also be GREAT options IMO as they are so much cheaper. The FX5900U would be worth it if the ONLY plan was work, and the soft mod was the goal.

Anywhoo, that's my take on it. And granted my experience is limited, but not comletely devoid of relevance.



- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
a b U Graphics card
October 17, 2003 7:56:02 PM

Something else to consider is also the R9700non-pro and R9800non-pro. IF you can find them they are rather nice. And if you do decide to make the cards ALL-work (and no play) then you can softGL mod them later. I think they would be a good choice. I prefer the R9600P but then again as Eden can attest, I'm paranoid about power and heat issues. But I am pretty satisfied with what I got.

The other thing to consider is whether you might bnifit more with 2GB of memory rather than a more epxensive video card (pretty much the diff. between an R9800P or FX5900U and the other cards), just a thought.

Watch out about the R9800SE, like Cleeve sad, there's not as great a chance of the mod working each time, and I haven't seen enough evidence to change that opinion.

Good Luck!


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
!