9600XT - Rip Off?

russmon · Oct 15, 2003

I just read the benchmarks on Toms for the 9600XT. It clearly does not do what ATI said it would and is no clear winner over the 9600Pro or the 9500Pro. I am beginning to feel with all the ATI and Valve crap going on that the 9600XT is just a way to sell HL2, video cards, and generate a whole marketing campaign for both companies.

I think Toms advise and others is best - just hold out for a few more weeks and/or wait for a game that actually warrants a new video card. Or just bite the bullet and invest in a 9800Pro which you know will be sound for at least 18 months.

cleeve · Oct 15, 2003

I think the most compelling reason to buy a 9600XT is that it comes with a HL2 voucher...

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Radeon 9500 (hardmodded to PRO, o/c to 322/322)
AMD AthlonXP 2400+ (o/c to 2600+ with 143 fsb)
3dMark03: 4055

Unit01 · Oct 15, 2003

It's manufactured with a different method. Which might give a bigger headroom for overclocking. We don't know how much since lars toms didn't try overclocking in the review.
BTW LARS, Nice review

Wooba Wooba

Borsti · Oct 15, 2003

Thanks

Well, it´s always a problem to run overclocking tests with reference samples. Sometimes they are equipped with better memory modules or you get special selected models which overclock very well. It always depends on the die output.

In the case of the 9600 XT sample, the memory was already on top of its specs: 600Mhz. I´m not sure if all cards from the board partners will be equipped with the same memory modules.

Lars

TheGreatGrapeApe · Oct 16, 2003

Yeah it appears that the current review samples all have that terrible 3.3ns memory. Hopefully people like Hercules and Sapphire (in their Fireblade version) will put the the 2.86ns memory modules on the board the way the pro has.

Considering it has the much touted Overdrive feature, it's a disappointment that they scrimped on the memory modules.

It's interesting that the XT is the one that bests the R9500P under most circumstances (save high res aa/af), and it would be worthy (without much argumet) of the R9600 badge.

Also, it's interesting that there are so many DET 52.1X drivers out there but no one has IQ pics. I think the X2rolling DEMO had the most glaringly questionable results (without IQ comparison). Was there NO visible differece?

All in al a very good review, I liked the fact that you resurrected the R9500P for this review.

I have to agree though it would be nice to see if the LOW-K process would've yielded better core overclocks than my R9600P which does 535 very stably. It would truely be sad, if the majority only got around 550 stable, and then were hampered by poor memory (my 2.8ns Samsung his 360/720 stably).

Thanks, as always.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

GeneticWeapon · Oct 16, 2003

For an awsome breakdown of the newer Det's, people should look to this article right here.. <A HREF="http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/detonator_52.14/index_e.php" target="_new">http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/detonator_52.14/index_e.php</A>

I help because you suck

coolsquirtle · Oct 16, 2003

the 9600XT is just there so i can laugh at it when i o/c my R9600pro like crazy and kicking it's ass

RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy
bring it fanATics~~ nVidia PWNS all!
SCREW aBOX! LONG LIVE nBOX!!

GeneticWeapon · Oct 16, 2003

the 9600XT is just there so i can laugh at it when i o/c my R9600pro like crazy and kicking it's ass

your a certified moron.

I help because you suck

ufo_warviper · Oct 16, 2003

Hey Borsti, do you have any good resources that I can use for my "Evolution of Display Technology" project for THGC!

Oh BTW, how often do u browse the forums?

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

dunno · Oct 16, 2003

your a certified moron.

You mean you're .

ufo_warviper · Oct 16, 2003

your a certified moron.

Okay, CS. Why don't you show us the paperwork already? We DO know that "your" certified afterall.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

coolsquirtle · Oct 16, 2003

pssss my paperwork is "EYES ONLY" documents

u can ask for GW, he'll give u his without any problems

RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy
bring it fanATics~~ nVidia PWNS all!
SCREW aBOX! LONG LIVE nBOX!!

ufo_warviper · Oct 16, 2003

pssss my paperwork is "EYES ONLY" documents

psssst... I don't know the "phial" extension "EYES ONLY" documents nor what type of application will open this type of document.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

TheGreatGrapeApe · Oct 16, 2003

I suppose that you meant to write, 'You MEANT you're.'; but then again, WHO CARES?!?

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

Borsti · Oct 16, 2003

@Ufo
Do you mean displays or VGA cards?

I try to have a look into the forum every day ;-)

I´m very busy during the next days but I try to run some OC tests with the 9600XT if possible!

Lars

TheGreatGrapeApe · Oct 16, 2003

Borsti/Lars, are you going to update the THG VGA buyer's guide anytime soon? Just curious.

Thanx Again!

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

Michaelius · Oct 16, 2003

Nice reviev. Still would be cool to see 9600xt compared to 9800 non pro.

GeneticWeapon · Oct 16, 2003

He's at Beyond3D or RivaStation

I help because you suck

TKS · Oct 16, 2003

No kidding...where the hell are the IQ pics for the Det 52.XX's?? It's the best kept secret on the web right now...and nowadays that's a hard thing to do...if they even exist.

My feelings are that they are nonexistent because they still haven't fixed their mix mode retardedness. I wonder if they've fired the guy that told them mixed mode was the way to go...

----------
I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman! Homer Simpson

TheGreatGrapeApe · Oct 16, 2003

Check my review list of the R9600XT, the Digit-life link/review has screenies.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

eden · Oct 16, 2003

The 9600XT is now officially declared the newest POS.

Ok, so sometimes it inches ahead, but you actually leave the memory behind?
Where's the logic? You give a 130lb warrior a huge buster blade but you don't give him armlets that let him hold it right?

Ok seriously, since no one discussed this which adds to my conclusion: The 9600XT supposedly now has a 3 times stronger Z-compression. Where is it?

See, this is my gripe with today's cards, they're all POS unoptimized crap!
The 9600XT follows the tradition, release new features, higher clock, but don't make sure drivers utilize them.
The 9700 contender claim (whoever said that) is a vapid lie, spreading everywhere to get the hopes up.
Basically, just like the 5900 Ultra's bandwidth and features, just like the 9800PRO, they all have increase features, if not bandwidth in the FX5900's case, but don't know how to do jack with it.
Non-optimized POS, that's the same I give 'em.

Sorry for the bash rant, but I am truly disappointed in how each new card comes out with claimed features, but deep down it's still not even programmed for with proper drivers.
The results even make the choice between a 9600PRO and 9500PRO harder. It's so unbalanced it's not funny.
Oh well, perhaps the new generation cores will make a difference and start from scratch.
Heck, maybe the 5700 Ultra will have value over the 9600s.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new">This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </A> :lol:

Ion · Oct 16, 2003

5700 properly will win over 9600XT due its 1GHZ memory(only in DX8.1 and below though). :tongue:

ufo_warviper · Oct 16, 2003

More or less VGA Cards

<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=372753#372753" target="_new">Have a look at this thread Dude

</A>

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

TheGreatGrapeApe · Oct 16, 2003

I don't know, it's still just a poduct refresh. For people afraid of overclocking (rarer nowadays I grant you) the memory is the same speed as it's predecessor and the core has a 100mhz boost. Yeah is it ground breaking like the R8500 -> R9500/9700 No, not by a long shot, but really did you expect that? It's been said for some time that it was only going to be a speed bump (in both uses of the words) to hold people over before the RV380 (whihc is supposed ot compete with the R9700/9800).
Sure it could've been better (especially if it had the Samsung memory running at R9800 speeds to start), but I think it's an OK refresh for the same price as the last refresh (no inflation). IMO it's a 5-10% gain with some nice cosmetic features (temp monitoring, overdrive, etc.).

Oh well, can't please everyone I guess. PErhaps wai for the Re-spin and see what you think then.

BTW, are you EVER going to pull the trigger on a replacemen card? :tongue:

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

russmon · Oct 16, 2003

Maybe we just need better game developers. I just fired up Max Payne 2 on my old reliable GF4 4200 and it absolutely screams! Now mind you I am not at 1600x1200 with all the eye candy but still. It makes Halo PC look like it was developed in a week (I think it was). I think this whole mid-range market could be helped if game developers could simply write better code.

With more 9600XT reviews coming in it is pretty clear to me about what GF4 4200 owners and the like should do:

1. Enjoy the last few months of your GF4 4200
2. Save your pennies and wait till prices drop
3. Shut up and get a 9800/9700 Pro (that includes me)
4. Forget about benchmarks and reviews for at least 18 months.

9600XT - Rip Off?

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