Need New PC recommendations/info

[Dan]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

I'm looking for a PC w/at least a 3.4Mhz processor, 1
Gig RAM, 128 Meg Vid. RAM and 80 gig hard drive. A 2nd 10k RPM 80 gig
HD would be nice but I think it'd be cheaper to by that on aftermarket
& install it. I'd also want a 17 or 18" LCD. I'm looking to spend
$1400ish.

The machine will be used for surfing, VHS video capture to transfer to
DVDR w/some light video editing and maybe some gaming. My main concern
is that I'm disabled and want to use Dragon Dictate to
navigate/control windows as well as dictate. On my current 1Mhz Dell
w/360k RAM Dragon isn't very fast when using it to navigate Win 2k.
Its pretty good but I'd want something faster if I were to use DD all
the time. Based on my usage, do the specs I'm looking for sound
appropriate? Any idea if Dragon would work better w/less RAM but a
faster processor or vise-versa? I ask because of tradeoffs I may have
to make due to lo budget.

Also, what's the best chipset to look for or is it very important? And
is XP Home
or XP Pro the better OS?
At Dell.com I can get a system w/
3.40GHz, 800FSB,
1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 400MHz (4x256M)
80GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)
16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write
17 in 1704FPT Ultrasharp™ Digital Flat Panel Display
128MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon™ X300 SE
for $1408.00 w/free shipping. I've shopped around a lot and it seems
like
a good deal. I'd love to be able to build my own at sites like
sysbuilder.com
or cpusolutions.com but they seem a bit pricey.

Sorry for rambling. Thanks for your help!


Dan
Quadzila@NOSPAMoptonline.net
Remove NOSPAM from address when replying

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Dan:
> is XP Home or XP Pro the better OS?

Home is a lite version of Pro. The MS website is the best resource for
deciding which version you want.

> At Dell.com I can get a system w/
> 3.40GHz, 800FSB,
> 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 400MHz (4x256M)
> 80GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)
> 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write
> 17 in 1704FPT UltrasharpT Digital Flat Panel Display
> 128MB PCI ExpressT x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI RadeonT X300 SE
> for $1408.00 w/free shipping. I've shopped around a lot and it seems
> like a good deal. I'd love to be able to build my own at sites like
> sysbuilder.com or cpusolutions.com but they seem a bit pricey.

It's unlikely you will find a cheaper price than Dell.
--
Mac Cool

 

[jad]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

<<Loads of ppl now know how to build computers. People in the street!

<<Dell computers are reliable and cheap, a winning combination. I bought
one
<<from them, and their support was excellent.

Somewhere a solution that falls between these extreme posts exists.

I too am disabled and although at this time I am able to use a keyboard, the
future may be different. I also have built many custom systems for the
disabled. The most important thing here is your control, then everything
else. For voice recognition its your MIC and soundcard. Not that your have
to invest tons of money in them, but a little concern with clock stability
is in order. Some mainboards with integrated sound don't measure up. Mic and
headsets are rated for dictation and voice recognition. The dragon site has
some requirement pages and product recommendations.

HTH



"Dan" <QuadzilaNOSPAM@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:29fou0ps3mkck07rc49iid1kd1oqk6akt5@4ax.com...
> I'm looking for a PC w/at least a 3.4Mhz processor, 1
> Gig RAM, 128 Meg Vid. RAM and 80 gig hard drive. A 2nd 10k RPM 80 gig
> HD would be nice but I think it'd be cheaper to by that on aftermarket
> & install it. I'd also want a 17 or 18" LCD. I'm looking to spend
> $1400ish.
>
> The machine will be used for surfing, VHS video capture to transfer to
> DVDR w/some light video editing and maybe some gaming. My main concern
> is that I'm disabled and want to use Dragon Dictate to
> navigate/control windows as well as dictate. On my current 1Mhz Dell
> w/360k RAM Dragon isn't very fast when using it to navigate Win 2k.
> Its pretty good but I'd want something faster if I were to use DD all
> the time. Based on my usage, do the specs I'm looking for sound
> appropriate? Any idea if Dragon would work better w/less RAM but a
> faster processor or vise-versa? I ask because of tradeoffs I may have
> to make due to lo budget.
>
> Also, what's the best chipset to look for or is it very important? And
> is XP Home
> or XP Pro the better OS?
> At Dell.com I can get a system w/
> 3.40GHz, 800FSB,
> 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 400MHz (4x256M)
> 80GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)
> 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write
> 17 in 1704FPT UltrasharpT Digital Flat Panel Display
> 128MB PCI ExpressT x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI RadeonT X300 SE
> for $1408.00 w/free shipping. I've shopped around a lot and it seems
> like
> a good deal. I'd love to be able to build my own at sites like
> sysbuilder.com
> or cpusolutions.com but they seem a bit pricey.
>
> Sorry for rambling. Thanks for your help!
>
>
> Dan
> Quadzila@NOSPAMoptonline.net
> Remove NOSPAM from address when replying

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

I'm no expert but I don't think it makes any difference which you use for a
home system. I've been using xp home on this laptop for 3 years and haven't
run into anything i wanted to do that it couldn't do, so I'd say go with
home just to save money.

Dell computers are reliable and cheap, a winning combination. I bought one
from them, and their support was excellent. I doubt the few bucks you may
save elsewhere dealing with lessor outfits would off set the secuity you get
from Dell. Also, if you do go with Dell, I'd get the longest warranty they
sell. When the hard drive failed they sent a replacement that was larger
than the one that broke. I called about it and they told me to just install
it because they no longer stocked the smaller ones.

Avery

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

-Avery Anderson:

> I'm no expert but I don't think it makes any difference which you use
> for a home system. I've been using xp home on this laptop for 3
> years and haven't run into anything i wanted to do that it couldn't
> do, so I'd say go with home just to save money.

It really depends. I went from XP Pro to Home when I changed systems. Pro
was just better for multiple users. Home is OK, but I have to give
everyone administrator access or else some programs will not run. My
daughter cannot even play her Dr. Suess games or use her drawing tablet
without administrator access.
--
Mac Cool

 

[BobR]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Mac Cool wrote in message ...
>Dan:
>> is XP Home or XP Pro the better OS?
>
>Home is a lite version of Pro. The MS website is the best resource for
>deciding which version you want.

Linux is $0.00!!!
[ the CDs will cost you $15.us ]


>
>> At Dell.com I can get a system w/
>> 3.40GHz, 800FSB,

Pentium 4 with motherboard - $200.us

>> 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 400MHz (4x256M)

$150.us approx. (2x512M. (depends on stinkin' rebates))

>> 80GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)

$50.us (Seagate or WD (rebates again))

>> 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write

$50.us

>> 17 in 1704FPT UltrasharpT Digital Flat Panel Display

$40.us (CRT) ($130.us - 19")

>> 128MB PCI ExpressT x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI RadeonT X300 SE

Non-Leading edge cards, approx $75.us

>> for $1408.00 w/free shipping. I've shopped around a lot and it seems
>> like a good deal. I'd love to be able to build my own at sites like
>> sysbuilder.com or cpusolutions.com but they seem a bit pricey.
>
>It's unlikely you will find a cheaper price than Dell.
>--
>Mac Cool

Tower case with 350watt power(atx) $40.us

total - $605.us
+ $100.us ($50.us per hour x 2 hours to put it all together.)(pay yourself!)
+ $15.us for Debian GNU/Linux OS (comes with 8000+ free software packages)

== $720.us
[ prices from Fry's, CyberGuys, CyberGeeks, etc.]

That's cheaper than Dell! <G>
If the OP can't use a screwdriver, the Dell is a good deal!

Fry's has/had some 'weaker' machines for $200.us! (Lindows OS)

[ sorry, I couldn't resist! "the devil made me do it". ]
Bob R
POVrookie
--
MinGW (GNU compiler): http://www.mingw.org/
Dev-C++ IDE: http://www.bloodshed.net/
POVray: http://www.povray.org/
alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++: ftp://snurse-l.org/pub/acllc-c++/faq

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"BobR" <RemoveBadBobR@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:hKgHd.44260$w62.29636@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> Mac Cool wrote in message ...
>>Dan:
>>> is XP Home or XP Pro the better OS?
>>
>>Home is a lite version of Pro. The MS website is the best resource for
>>deciding which version you want.
>
> Linux is $0.00!!!
> [ the CDs will cost you $15.us ]
>
>
>>
>>> At Dell.com I can get a system w/
>>> 3.40GHz, 800FSB,
>
> Pentium 4 with motherboard - $200.us
>
>>> 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 400MHz (4x256M)
>
> $150.us approx. (2x512M. (depends on stinkin' rebates))
>
>>> 80GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)
>
> $50.us (Seagate or WD (rebates again))
>
>>> 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write
>
> $50.us
>
>>> 17 in 1704FPT UltrasharpT Digital Flat Panel Display
>
> $40.us (CRT) ($130.us - 19")
>
>>> 128MB PCI ExpressT x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI RadeonT X300 SE
>
> Non-Leading edge cards, approx $75.us
>
>>> for $1408.00 w/free shipping. I've shopped around a lot and it seems
>>> like a good deal. I'd love to be able to build my own at sites like
>>> sysbuilder.com or cpusolutions.com but they seem a bit pricey.
>>
>>It's unlikely you will find a cheaper price than Dell.
>>--
>>Mac Cool
>
> Tower case with 350watt power(atx) $40.us
>
> total - $605.us
> + $100.us ($50.us per hour x 2 hours to put it all together.)(pay
> yourself!)
> + $15.us for Debian GNU/Linux OS (comes with 8000+ free software packages)
>
> == $720.us
> [ prices from Fry's, CyberGuys, CyberGeeks, etc.]
>
> That's cheaper than Dell! <G>
> If the OP can't use a screwdriver, the Dell is a good deal!
>
> Fry's has/had some 'weaker' machines for $200.us! (Lindows OS)
>
> [ sorry, I couldn't resist! "the devil made me do it". ]
> Bob R
> POVrookie
> --
> MinGW (GNU compiler): http://www.mingw.org/
> Dev-C++ IDE: http://www.bloodshed.net/
> POVray: http://www.povray.org/
> alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++: ftp://snurse-l.org/pub/acllc-c++/faq
>
>

Cheaper than Dell when you replace the LCD with a CRT, replace the PCI-e
video card with a $75 generic, etc. etc.

A Toyota Echo is cheaper than a Mercedes S500, but so ?

Tom

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Dan wrote:
> I'm looking for a PC w/at least a 3.4Mhz processor, 1
> Gig RAM, 128 Meg Vid. RAM and 80 gig hard drive. A 2nd 10k RPM 80 gig
> HD would be nice but I think it'd be cheaper to by that on aftermarket
> & install it. I'd also want a 17 or 18" LCD. I'm looking to spend
> $1400ish.
>
> The machine will be used for surfing, VHS video capture to transfer to
> DVDR w/some light video editing and maybe some gaming. My main concern
> is that I'm disabled and want to use Dragon Dictate to
> navigate/control windows as well as dictate. On my current 1Mhz Dell
> w/360k RAM Dragon isn't very fast when using it to navigate Win 2k.
> Its pretty good but I'd want something faster if I were to use DD all
> the time. Based on my usage, do the specs I'm looking for sound
> appropriate? Any idea if Dragon would work better w/less RAM but a
> faster processor or vise-versa? I ask because of tradeoffs I may have
> to make due to lo budget.
>
> Also, what's the best chipset to look for or is it very important? And
> is XP Home
> or XP Pro the better OS?
> At Dell.com I can get a system w/
> 3.40GHz, 800FSB,
> 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 400MHz (4x256M)
> 80GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)
> 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write
> 17 in 1704FPT Ultrasharp™ Digital Flat Panel Display
> 128MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon™ X300 SE
> for $1408.00 w/free shipping. I've shopped around a lot and it seems
> like
> a good deal. I'd love to be able to build my own at sites like
> sysbuilder.com
> or cpusolutions.com but they seem a bit pricey.
>
> Sorry for rambling. Thanks for your help!
>
>
> Dan
> Quadzila@NOSPAMoptonline.net
> Remove NOSPAM from address when replying

If you try to build your own system, Intel is going to be more
expensive. Pretty much every home-builder I know uses AMD for the simple
reason that their CPU's are cheaper at retail prices. AMD seems to be
more standards friendly as well, which tends to make their motherboards
cheaper. That Dell system you have listed would be perfectly fine for
Dragon Dictate. As far as the XP Home vs. XP Pro debate, it's about
networking. If you don't have a network, or just have one PC, XP Home is
all you need. If you needed to save money, you could probably scale back
the CPU a bit.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Al Smith:

> One of the big advantages of building your own computer is that
> you don't need to pay the Microsoft tax. That was a main reason I
> built my own last time. I'm tired of sending my money to
> Microsoft, so I decided not to do it anymore.

One has nothing to do with the other and buying MS products is a choice
not tied to prebuilt systems. I used to have the direct link to buy Dells
without an operating system, but a quick look in my bookmarks didn't find
it.
--
Mac Cool

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

BobR:

> Linux is $0.00!!!
> [ the CDs will cost you $15.us ]

True, assuming it works with the hardware you choose, assuming you have
the time and aptitude to learn how to use it.

>>> At Dell.com I can get a system w/
>>> 3.40GHz, 800FSB,
>
> Pentium 4 with motherboard - $200.us

279+125=$404

>>> 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 400MHz (4x256M)
>
> $150.us approx. (2x512M. (depends on stinkin' rebates))

$142

>>> 80GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)
>
> $50.us (Seagate or WD (rebates again))

I don't know what the OP spec'd out but the default hard drive on Dell's ~
$1400 machine is 250GB, not 80GB.

$168

>>> 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write
>
> $50.us

I think you're on the cheap side but I'll give you this one.

>>> 17 in 1704FPT UltrasharpT Digital Flat Panel Display
>
> $40.us (CRT) ($130.us - 19")

Comes with 19" LCD
$399

>>> 128MB PCI ExpressT x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI RadeonT X300 SE
>
> Non-Leading edge cards, approx $75.us

I can live with $75

> Tower case with 350watt power(atx) $40.us

$91

> total - $605.us

$1329 shipped, sans software
--
Mac Cool

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

> If you try to build your own system, Intel is going to be more expensive.
> Pretty much every home-builder I know uses AMD for the simple reason that
> their CPU's are cheaper at retail prices.

That is misleading. It depends on what level of performance you are aiming
for. For the typical mid-range system, an Intel solution CAN be cheaper to
build, when total cost is considered. You can spend many hundreds of
dollars on a CPU, regardless of who makes it. But if you want to spend
about ~$200 on a CPU (or a mid-range system), you are going to get the same
relative performance level, as far as AMD vs. Intel goes. THEN you will
discover that there is a wider selection of mainboards/chipsets/etc. for the
Intel chip, so your mainboard is likely to be cheaper for the Intel chip, if
you shop carefully.

It's pretty much a wash either way, but it's POSSIBLE to build an Intel
system for less money . . . especially if you are aiming for the average
mid-range system. -Dave

 

[steve]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote in message
news:357s4vF4jqkmbU1@individual.net...
>> If you try to build your own system, Intel is going to be more expensive.
>> Pretty much every home-builder I know uses AMD for the simple reason that
>> their CPU's are cheaper at retail prices.
>
> That is misleading. It depends on what level of performance you are
> aiming for. For the typical mid-range system, an Intel solution CAN be
> cheaper to build, when total cost is considered. You can spend many
> hundreds of dollars on a CPU, regardless of who makes it. But if you want
> to spend about ~$200 on a CPU (or a mid-range system), you are going to
> get the same relative performance level, as far as AMD vs. Intel goes.
> THEN you will discover that there is a wider selection of
> mainboards/chipsets/etc. for the Intel chip, so your mainboard is likely
> to be cheaper for the Intel chip, if you shop carefully.
>
> It's pretty much a wash either way, but it's POSSIBLE to build an Intel
> system for less money . . . especially if you are aiming for the average
> mid-range system. -Dave
>

I disagree, do you forget about AMD budget line of Cpu's?
Like the AMD Duron which compete against the Intel Celeron Cpu's.
The AMD CPU's run cooler and are better value for the buck.

Compare prices at http://www.pricewatch.com in CPU section.

AMD based motherboards are as cheap or cheaper than Intel
motherboard.

Compare prices http://www.pricewatch.com in Motherboard section.


Steve

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

>>One of the big advantages of building your own computer is that you don't
>>> need to pay the Microsoft tax. That was a main reason I built my own last
>>> time. I'm tired of sending my money to Microsoft, so I decided not to do
>>> it anymore.
>
>
> Just because you build your own computer does not mean
> you still do not purchase a Microsoft operating system.
> I have built many computers and I purchased windows.
> Linux has it's uses..but I can't play they games that I play
> Doom 3, FarCry, Hal Life on Linux. So I have no choice
> to use windows.
>
> Steve

If you already own a full retail copy of Windows XP, you can
legally transfer it from one computer to another. Why buy a
computer with an OEM version of Windows if you've already got Windows?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Al Smith <invalid@address.com> wrote:

>>>One of the big advantages of building your own computer is that you don't
>>>> need to pay the Microsoft tax. That was a main reason I built my own last
>>>> time. I'm tired of sending my money to Microsoft, so I decided not to do
>>>> it anymore.

>> Just because you build your own computer does not mean
>> you still do not purchase a Microsoft operating system.
>> I have built many computers and I purchased windows.
>> Linux has it's uses..but I can't play they games that I play
>> Doom 3, FarCry, Hal Life on Linux. So I have no choice
>> to use windows.

>If you already own a full retail copy of Windows XP, you can
>legally transfer it from one computer to another. Why buy a
>computer with an OEM version of Windows if you've already got Windows?

Depends on what is happening with the "old" computer.

If one is keeping it [for spouse, offspring, resident MIL, or as
one's own second, third, or whatever computer], one will still
need an OS for it.

If one is selling it, how easy is it to find buyers for an
OS-less computer that one cannot, legally, even demonstrate works
after one has put Windows into the new one? Strident as they
are, linux users are still a rather small minority of computer
users. And even those will want to see that the old box they're
buying still works.

Only if one is salvaging components from the old one, and
trashing the rest is a need for an OS eliminated.

Or, if the old computer came with OEM Win9x, WinME, whatever, one
can reinstall the old Windows version and hope someone buys into
getting WinME [spit!, even 3.1 would be preferable] or Win9x.

At least that's how it looks to me.

[Who had to include the retail copy of XPPro that I bought for it
with the old Dimension L733r I just sold, because the buyer was
too smart to let me stick him with the WinME that the L733r
originally came with.]
--
OJ III
[Email to Yahoo address may be burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast.]

 

[steve]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Ogden Johnson III" <oj3usmc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:sb5tu09t8kal5b319gl6d6ukcau0ej5l4k@4ax.com...
> Al Smith <invalid@address.com> wrote:
>
>>>>One of the big advantages of building your own computer is that you
>>>>don't
>>>>> need to pay the Microsoft tax. That was a main reason I built my own
>>>>> last
>>>>> time. I'm tired of sending my money to Microsoft, so I decided not to
>>>>> do
>>>>> it anymore.
>
>>> Just because you build your own computer does not mean
>>> you still do not purchase a Microsoft operating system.
>>> I have built many computers and I purchased windows.
>>> Linux has it's uses..but I can't play they games that I play
>>> Doom 3, FarCry, Hal Life on Linux. So I have no choice
>>> to use windows.
>
>>If you already own a full retail copy of Windows XP, you can
>>legally transfer it from one computer to another. Why buy a
>>computer with an OEM version of Windows if you've already got Windows?
>
> Depends on what is happening with the "old" computer.
>
> If one is keeping it [for spouse, offspring, resident MIL, or as
> one's own second, third, or whatever computer], one will still
> need an OS for it.
>
> If one is selling it, how easy is it to find buyers for an
> OS-less computer that one cannot, legally, even demonstrate works
> after one has put Windows into the new one? Strident as they
> are, linux users are still a rather small minority of computer
> users. And even those will want to see that the old box they're
> buying still works.
>
> Only if one is salvaging components from the old one, and
> trashing the rest is a need for an OS eliminated.
>
> Or, if the old computer came with OEM Win9x, WinME, whatever, one
> can reinstall the old Windows version and hope someone buys into
> getting WinME [spit!, even 3.1 would be preferable] or Win9x.
>
> At least that's how it looks to me.
>
> [Who had to include the retail copy of XPPro that I bought for it
> with the old Dimension L733r I just sold, because the buyer was
> too smart to let me stick him with the WinME that the L733r
> originally came with.]
> --
> OJ III
> [Email to Yahoo address may be burned before reading.
> Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast.]


In response to your

> If one is selling it, how easy is it to find buyers for an
> OS-less computer that one cannot, legally, even demonstrate works
> after one has put Windows into the new one? Strident as they
> are, linux users are still a rather small minority of computer
> users. And even those will want to see that the old box they're
> buying still works.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=51113&item=5157803084&rd=1

Computers without operating systems sell by 1000's or more a year
on eBay.
Plus you don't even see it person before you buy it, only a picture
and description.

Steve

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Steve" <two_one@w7.org> wrote in message
news:lhxHd.54625$Wo.2741@lakeread08...
>
> "Ogden Johnson III" <oj3usmc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:sb5tu09t8kal5b319gl6d6ukcau0ej5l4k@4ax.com...
>> Al Smith <invalid@address.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>One of the big advantages of building your own computer is that you
>>>>>don't
>>>>>> need to pay the Microsoft tax. That was a main reason I built my own
>>>>>> last
>>>>>> time. I'm tired of sending my money to Microsoft, so I decided not to
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> it anymore.
>>
>>>> Just because you build your own computer does not mean
>>>> you still do not purchase a Microsoft operating system.
>>>> I have built many computers and I purchased windows.
>>>> Linux has it's uses..but I can't play they games that I play
>>>> Doom 3, FarCry, Hal Life on Linux. So I have no choice
>>>> to use windows.
>>
>>>If you already own a full retail copy of Windows XP, you can
>>>legally transfer it from one computer to another. Why buy a
>>>computer with an OEM version of Windows if you've already got Windows?
>>
>> Depends on what is happening with the "old" computer.
>>
>> If one is keeping it [for spouse, offspring, resident MIL, or as
>> one's own second, third, or whatever computer], one will still
>> need an OS for it.
>>
>> If one is selling it, how easy is it to find buyers for an
>> OS-less computer that one cannot, legally, even demonstrate works
>> after one has put Windows into the new one? Strident as they
>> are, linux users are still a rather small minority of computer
>> users. And even those will want to see that the old box they're
>> buying still works.
>>
>> Only if one is salvaging components from the old one, and
>> trashing the rest is a need for an OS eliminated.
>>
>> Or, if the old computer came with OEM Win9x, WinME, whatever, one
>> can reinstall the old Windows version and hope someone buys into
>> getting WinME [spit!, even 3.1 would be preferable] or Win9x.
>>
>> At least that's how it looks to me.
>>
>> [Who had to include the retail copy of XPPro that I bought for it
>> with the old Dimension L733r I just sold, because the buyer was
>> too smart to let me stick him with the WinME that the L733r
>> originally came with.]
>> --
>> OJ III
>> [Email to Yahoo address may be burned before reading.
>> Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast.]
>
>
> In response to your
>
>> If one is selling it, how easy is it to find buyers for an
>> OS-less computer that one cannot, legally, even demonstrate works
>> after one has put Windows into the new one? Strident as they
>> are, linux users are still a rather small minority of computer
>> users. And even those will want to see that the old box they're
>> buying still works.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=51113&item=5157803084&rd=1
>
> Computers without operating systems sell by 1000's or more a year
> on eBay.
> Plus you don't even see it person before you buy it, only a picture
> and description.
>
> Steve
>


And, legal or not (and I doubt ebay would allow it listed if Microsoft had a
problem with it) there are dozens, perhaps 100's of systems on ebay at any
given time that have an MS OS installed but the auction includes no OS or
software CD's. Those units are probably or near equal in number to used
systems over there sold with no OS - usually only tower, keyboard, and
mouse.


Stew

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

> I disagree, do you forget about AMD budget line of Cpu's?
> Like the AMD Duron which compete against the Intel Celeron Cpu's.
> The AMD CPU's run cooler and are better value for the buck.

No, I did not forget about them. If you are building on a tight budget, AMD
is clearly the better choice. But for the average system, a celeron or
sempron (new duron) is usually not considered.

At the low end and high end, AMD is a better value. But if you research
CAREFULLY, you will find that mid-level performance systems are about the
same price to build. If anything, Intel systems are a tad cheaper to build
in that sweet spot that most builders aim for, sometimes referred to as
"best bang for buck". -Dave

 

[steve]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote in message
news:3580ukF4k8q6rU1@individual.net...
>> I disagree, do you forget about AMD budget line of Cpu's?
>> Like the AMD Duron which compete against the Intel Celeron Cpu's.
>> The AMD CPU's run cooler and are better value for the buck.
>
> No, I did not forget about them. If you are building on a tight budget,
> AMD is clearly the better choice. But for the average system, a celeron
> or sempron (new duron) is usually not considered.
>
> At the low end and high end, AMD is a better value. But if you research
> CAREFULLY, you will find that mid-level performance systems are about the
> same price to build. If anything, Intel systems are a tad cheaper to
> build in that sweet spot that most builders aim for, sometimes referred to
> as "best bang for buck". -Dave
>

Ok prove it.....do your own research using Intel parts and
finding that "best bang for the buck".
Then I will post a AMD build and compare to yours on mid-range system.

Steve

 

[jad]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

BANG FOR THE BUCK you know unless that's tattooed on your ass, your not
REALLY a AMD salesman. The best 'BANG' is a perfect name for AMD.


"Steve" <two_one@w7.org> wrote in message
news:5lAHd.56017$Wo.11038@lakeread08...
>
> "Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote in message
> news:3580ukF4k8q6rU1@individual.net...
> >> I disagree, do you forget about AMD budget line of Cpu's?
> >> Like the AMD Duron which compete against the Intel Celeron Cpu's.
> >> The AMD CPU's run cooler and are better value for the buck.
> >
> > No, I did not forget about them. If you are building on a tight budget,
> > AMD is clearly the better choice. But for the average system, a celeron
> > or sempron (new duron) is usually not considered.
> >
> > At the low end and high end, AMD is a better value. But if you research
> > CAREFULLY, you will find that mid-level performance systems are about
the
> > same price to build. If anything, Intel systems are a tad cheaper to
> > build in that sweet spot that most builders aim for, sometimes referred
to
> > as "best bang for buck". -Dave
> >
>
> Ok prove it.....do your own research using Intel parts and
> finding that "best bang for the buck".
> Then I will post a AMD build and compare to yours on mid-range system.
>
> Steve
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

>
> Ok prove it.....do your own research using Intel parts and
> finding that "best bang for the buck".
> Then I will post a AMD build and compare to yours on mid-range system.
>
> Steve

I have done so already. My most recent build, I was looking at a P4 3.0
versus a Athlon 64 3000. At the time, the two processors were identical in
price, and identical in performance, with the AMD chip being faster at some
certain tasks and the P4 being faster at others. Then I looked at cost of
motherboards. Well-equipped ones were about thirty bucks more for the AMD
chip. All other parts were identical. See, I planned out both complete
systems on paper first, as I really didn't care which chip I used (AMD or
Intel, whatever). I went into the project thinking that the AMD would be
much cheaper. I was more than a little surprised to learn that not only was
the AMD system not cheaper at all, but that the Intel system could be made
for a little less money, without even putting any extraordinary effort into
it. It came down to selection of mainboards . . . there were LOTS more
chipsets and manufacturers putting out socket 478 mainboards at the time.
More mainboards, more competition, lower prices on similarly equipped
boards.

NOW, looking at pricewatch, it looks like the mid-range processors favor AMD
by about forty to sixty bucks. But add in the ~30 extra bucks you will need
for the mainboard, and it's about equal. Or to put it in perspective . . .
if you spent several hundred on computer parts, are you going to really
claim that (~10 to ~30 bucks less) is much cheaper? -Dave

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

S.Lewis:

> there are dozens, perhaps 100's of systems on ebay at any
> given time that have an MS OS installed but the auction includes no
> OS or software CD's.

I tried to sell an emachines PC without the restore disk on ebay and they
cancelled the auction and sent me an email stating that I would have to
state clearly in the auction that there were restore cds or that I had
reformatted the hard drive.

I'm sure they don't stop everyone but they got me on the first day.
--
Mac Cool

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Steve:

> Compare prices at http://www.pricewatch.com

Don't use pricewatch. I know the format is convenient but it's unrealiable
for pricing information. Half the companies that sell there practice bait-
n-switch (advertising errors) or put their products in the wrong category
intentionally.

I like dealtime.com, but there are others.
--
Mac Cool

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 16:15:00 -0500, "Dave C."
<mdupre@sff.net> wrote:

>> I disagree, do you forget about AMD budget line of Cpu's?
>> Like the AMD Duron which compete against the Intel Celeron Cpu's.
>> The AMD CPU's run cooler and are better value for the buck.
>
>No, I did not forget about them. If you are building on a tight budget, AMD
>is clearly the better choice. But for the average system, a celeron or
>sempron (new duron) is usually not considered.
>
>At the low end and high end, AMD is a better value. But if you research
>CAREFULLY, you will find that mid-level performance systems are about the
>same price to build. If anything, Intel systems are a tad cheaper to build
>in that sweet spot that most builders aim for, sometimes referred to as
>"best bang for buck". -Dave


No, that's just plain incorrect.
For $200, _today_ you can get at most a Prescott 3.0 GHz, if
you are a seasoned 'netizen. In a shop, people are paying
$260 after shop markup. At older software, a $100 Athlon XP
Barton is faster. At newer softare (possible excluding
video editing with newer apps, but not necessarily) the
Athlon 64 3400+ (currently just under $200 mark) is faster.
Actually even the A64 3200+ is faster.

However, you seem to be a bit confused about what "high end"
system means too. P4 uses significantly more power.
Requires more expensive heatsink for quiet operation.
Requires more expensive power supply, another fan per same
ambient case temps. That may be $40 right there, maybe even
for power supply alone as higher amperage 12V PSU are
disproportionately higher priced.

So we have $40, plus considering that A64 3200 is closer
performance, it can be had for $167. Already a $77 dollar
difference for a slower P4 that only costs $200.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Ogden Johnson III wrote:
>
.... snip ...
>
> [Who had to include the retail copy of XPPro that I bought for it
> with the old Dimension L733r I just sold, because the buyer was
> too smart to let me stick him with the WinME that the L733r
> originally came with.]

I think, if you really peruse the EULA, you will find you violated
it. You are not supposed to pass on anything, just buy more. Your
customer MAY find his copy destroyed, because the EULA gives MS the
right to insist on an upgrade (at the customers expense) at any
time and the right to remove anything they deem improper.

Always remember, the sole purpose of Windoze is to enrich
MicroShaft at every twist and turn.

--
"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
"show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
"Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.computer,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 21:58:30 GMT, CBFalconer
<cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Ogden Johnson III wrote:
>>
>... snip ...
>>
>> [Who had to include the retail copy of XPPro that I bought for it
>> with the old Dimension L733r I just sold, because the buyer was
>> too smart to let me stick him with the WinME that the L733r
>> originally came with.]
>
>I think, if you really peruse the EULA, you will find you violated
>it. You are not supposed to pass on anything, just buy more. Your
>customer MAY find his copy destroyed, because the EULA gives MS the
>right to insist on an upgrade (at the customers expense) at any
>time and the right to remove anything they deem improper.
>
>Always remember, the sole purpose of Windoze is to enrich
>MicroShaft at every twist and turn.


What exactly do you mean by "You are not supposed to pass on
anything, just buy more." ?

It would seem everything is in order if the WinXP was either
retail version or OEM sold with hardware that remained with
that system, providing either way the COA (certificate of
authenticity) stays with the system.

The WinME on the other hand, is a writeoff, can't be used at
all (at least according to typical OEM EULA).

Real question though is if the buyer even benefitted.
733MHz system isn't slow but it's going to be slower running
XP that ME, at least after all the junk in ME is disabled to
the point where it's just a slightly newer version of
Win98SE. Over and over I hear how people found Win9x
instable. Must be a different win9x, because I can set up a
box with stable drivers and stable apps and it crashes so
seldom it's not worth mentioning. It "might" not run for 8
months' uptime, but for typical use, > $100 saved is a good
deal for someone buying a system like P733 which isn't worth
but a couple hundred if that.