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ATi replies against cheating allegations

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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October 28, 2003 9:12:43 PM

Interesting. After reading the article, ane viewing the screenshots, I thought everybody was blowing this thing way out of proportion. The image might not have been exactly right, but as long as they didn't get any extra frames from it then they're not cheating. It's not like they installed extra clipping planes into an application like Nvidia did with 3dmark (I know I'm going to get flamed for that).
It's probably just a couple of bugs. I think the 3.9's will reveal if it is a bug or not.

Is there anything really more to say?
October 28, 2003 9:17:31 PM

I agree. People blew the whole thing out of propotion....people like me:) 

<b>I help because you suck</b>
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October 28, 2003 9:29:56 PM

Yet another black mark goes in my book next to THG's credibility and professionalism - it does seem to be lacking in all departments recently.
a b U Graphics card
October 29, 2003 1:43:33 AM

You blew it out of proportion for comic relief. I know YOU know true cheating, and I never felt you TRUELY beleived it was cheating to the same extent that we saw this summer. Did I think you were thinking somethng similar to me along the lines of; 'WTF!' Sure!

After all the talk of nV issues, having even these relatively minor issues coming out made people think, hey what's going on.

I think the response was what I expected, and I said as much to Lars in that other thread. I'd love to see the final breakdown in the future as to WHY there is those differences, I think it would be interesting. I'm seriously wondering if the differences in the overdraw aren't related to architecture.

Anywhoo, like they say I think this is the initial response and there is more to come. We shall see, and it shall be fun! :evil: 


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
October 29, 2003 1:47:46 AM

Um, excuse me, THG did nothing but REPORT the news, and show pictures of something INDEED up. ATi confirmed it, but they said they were bugs!

Damn you people, you really are getting picky on THG's arse too much.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 29, 2003 1:49:40 AM

I have to say it's a nice response. Much less PRed than nVidia, and at least they had the guts to admit they're going to resolve it.

Not much to say more than this really.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 29, 2003 1:54:06 AM

I'm sorry, THG was <i>clearly</i> wrong by showing something objective. I mean good journalism should be tainted and twisted right, facts should be hidden, right?? Since people like Ati nowadays, let's turn a blind eye to what they do.
Now suppose what u would have been saying if they had cheated (and it's still unconfirmed...as all companies, Ati is trying to keep their rep from being tainted).
Seriously, get a phuckin like fuctard.
Edit: A brain would be useful too. Tho for puppies like you, cleaning the toilet doesn't require much skill.

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by flamethrower205 on 10/28/03 10:54 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
October 29, 2003 2:18:47 AM

Flame's got some A- somewhere didn't he! :evil: 

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 29, 2003 2:19:51 AM

Aside from Flamey's flames, you have yet to answer me back from the CPU forum where you accused me of not reading the facts that THG had a media blackout. I provided enough facts, and am waiting. Still believe they actually blocked the media?

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 29, 2003 2:36:16 AM

You're all wrong!
Im allways Right!
neener neener neener!

nuff said

<b>I am not a AMD fanboy.
I am not a Via fanboy.
I am not a ATI fanboy.
I AM a performance fanboy.
And a low price fanboy. :smile:
Regards,
Mr no integrity coward.</b>
October 29, 2003 2:36:31 AM

Naw, I gotta 4 page paper to write. Hehehe

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
a b U Graphics card
October 29, 2003 5:06:21 AM

Quote:
THG did nothing but REPORT the news,..

I'm just going to disagree with you a bit.

The title of the paragraph/section, <i>Questionable optimizations in ATi's drivers?</i> , and lead-in phrase to describe these anomalies bothered me though because it did imply they were cheats. Whether that was on purpose or not is my issue.

<font color=red><i>Earlier this year, NVIDIA drew a lot of flak over a number of questionable optimizations in their drivers for 3DMark 2003 - optimizations which could definitely be called cheats.</i></font color=red>

then there's this full-on accusation/partial qualification phrase that is similar to a page 1 mistake and page 25 retraction;

<font color=red><i>an optimization such as this seems more than a bit questionable and smacks of cheating - that is, if this behavior is the result of deliberate action on ATi's part and not a driver bug in the end. </i></font color=red>

This implies that they are questionable optimizations, meaning that they are a result of ATI direct decision to do this. As said above that is not the case.

Also notice that in the begining there is the statement that Randy Pitchford was mentioning that there were ATI optimizations detrimental to Image quality, but he won't back that up, and then way in the back (three pages later [not immediately mentioned]) that Lars noticed no such image quality reductions;

<font color=red><i>In Halo pixel-shader quality comparison screenshots, on the other hand, we could not corroborate any irregularities as alleged by Randy Pitchford.</font color=red></i>

Now why couldn't that statement have been made immediately following the allegations?

Perhaps it is just semantics, but considering the reaction it has garnered I'd say it's a significant misstep.

If Lars had just said, 'while compiling this review I noticed some strange things...' then that wouldn't make the association with nVidia's floptimizations. The way it was worded makes Lars appear at best as an unwitting pawn of nV's PR machine, at worst it makes him appear as a willing participant. And just like I reserved my judgement of the issues until ATI responded I'll reserve my judgement of these actions until I see equal space for ATI's response or I see no action to makeup for these misstatements.

Especially when it appears no effort was made to contact ATI about this.

Some people may see it as no big deal, I see it as a big step into the role of corporate PR extension (even if it is playing both ends against the middle).

As always, that's just my two frames worth.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
October 29, 2003 12:41:16 PM

Well GreatApe answered some of it already :) 

It's also funny how quick Lars was to jump the gun on this and spread rumours provided by NV, when in the past they didn't do so (quack3). Why now the surprising jump to rumour reporting again?

And before this statement a lot of sites has presented both facts and theories that answers all these so called cheats.

Took less than a week to report this.
Took what 6 months for a word about 3dmark03?

Wooba Wooba
October 29, 2003 2:03:48 PM

Quote:
If he has been confused for 4 days, I don't know what he will do to find out.

That's the news for ya...
Its just like when there's a reported shark attack in Florida. All of the sudden the newspapers are chock full of animal attack stories. THere usually aren't more than as always occurs its just that the public is more aware of it and the media will feed it to them.

It's all Bush's fault...all of it...
October 29, 2003 3:23:11 PM

Not only that but ATI stated
Quote:
"We are disappointed that certain media outlets chose to perpetuate the allegations, made originally by a competitor, in their articles without an understanding of what was happening and without contacting us for comment."

Perhaps instead of running with a story like the National Enquirer, it would behoove them to research sources, information, accusations, etc. *shrug*

It sure did sound like they jumped the gun on this one. But oh what a juicy story...I'm sure they couldn't just let that one fly. And of course, the shocking stories always get more view time than the unshocking ones.

----------
<b>Got any of that beer that has candy floating in it? You know, Skittlebrau? </b> <i>Homer Simpson</i>

TKS
October 29, 2003 3:49:05 PM

GRUB!

You just quoted me from the OTHERS forum in Phial's thread!

ROFL, again with the Border crossing dumbness! :tongue:

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 29, 2003 4:09:34 PM

DOH!!! Its not me that's dumb its the clipboard...honest!!!

It's all Bush's fault...all of it...
October 29, 2003 5:42:18 PM

One of the other things that really got me is in the Aquamark part of the review they said:

"With the irregularities of the ATi drivers in this benchmark, the results of the ATI cards should be seen with a grain of salt."

This in a benchmark that even has tools built in that show you exactly how much work a card is doing. If they had bothered to do some research instead of jumping on the bandwagon of whoever pointed out the "irregularities" they would easily see the ATi card is doing just as much work even if it is showing a slightly different image. Not to mention that even Catalyst drivers released before Aquamark was even out have the same problem. THG don't make it clear at all that this isn't a new problem with the latest drivers. Also they used this "pinch of salt" thing with nVidia cards a few months ago, but only after is was proved nVidia was cheating. THG were just about the last site out there to run an article about nVidia's cheating, and even then they were less than assertive about it. Yet here they suggest ATi is cheating without even doing any real research. And just coincidentally it's in an article about new nVidia cards.

Call me a cynic.

Just seems to me that the people doing the THG reviews recently aren't up to standard at all, at best.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by RAIN_KING_UK on 10/29/03 02:46 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
a b U Graphics card
October 29, 2003 7:22:34 PM

And perhaps it's because ATI's Advertising and Legal budgets aren't up to nV's levels.

But maybe I'm just a scenic sin-ik.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
!