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ATI 9800 SE 128mb vs ATI 9600 Pro 256mb

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November 2, 2003 9:17:56 PM

Hi, I am looking at getting a not too expensive video card, and have narrowed it down to the ATI 9800 128mb or the 9600 PRO 256mb, but do not know which to get. Any other suggestions also are good, but I am looking to spend around $150, and will be using it for gaming....mainly BF1942 and possibly HL2. If anyone can please help me with which would be better, I would appreciate it.
November 2, 2003 10:06:50 PM

the 9800 would be the better card to have in my opinion because no apps really take advantage of the 256 MB. one other thing to consider is that ati is giving away copies of HL2 with the purchase of the 9600 XT that will be coming out soon so if you can wait till then you'd kinda kill 2 birds with one stone and the 9600 xt sounds like a great card and for about what you want to spend.
a b U Graphics card
November 2, 2003 10:42:50 PM

The last guy made a mistake in not noticing you said the 9800SE, which is basically Rev. 2 of the 9500 Non-Pro.

The 9600 Pro will eat it for lunch. In fact, if you want to save a bit of money, the 128MB 9600 Pro would easily eat the 9800SE for lunch.

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<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
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a b U Graphics card
November 2, 2003 10:45:02 PM

He said 9800SE, not 9800. The SE uses the 9500 NON-pro parts, except that the VPU is a hacked down 9800 rather than a hacked down 9700. Since it only has 4 pipelines and operates at a much slower clockrate than the 9600 Pro, the 9600 Pro will eat the 9800SE for lunch and spit out several FX5200's from it's glaring teeth.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
November 2, 2003 10:49:46 PM

ah, your right. i overlooked that se in the title. i would still say the 9600 xt would be worth waiting for if he were also wanting to play HL2
November 2, 2003 11:24:48 PM

I think what the two chaps above are saying is: "get a 9600Pro 128MB". 256 ram is just marketing. AT this point right now in time, graphics cards don't need the extra ram. They will in the future, but right now they don't. save the extra money, and just buy a 9600Pro with "only" 128MB.

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a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2003 12:28:10 AM

9600XT isn't worth the extra money either, it's just a standard 9600 Pro that's been overclocked. The performance gain is marginal, the price is higher, and nearly any card can be overclocked.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
November 3, 2003 1:41:23 AM

the reason a 9600 XT card would be worth $200 is because it is coming with a free copy of HL2. he said he may play that. if that is the case the card would essentially cost $150. the price point at which he is after. so, he can either take a $150 9600 Pro or a $150 "overclocked" 9600 Pro that albeit marginal, will beat the performance of the 9600 Pro, and without voiding the warranty. in my opinion of course
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2003 1:45:18 AM

Of course! I just got a free AIW 9600 Pro, and it kicks butt, clocks the GPU to 500MHz without breaking a sweat, and comes with faster RAM! And in addition to the AIW features, it includes a cert for free HL2!

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
November 3, 2003 1:46:19 AM

Heck my TI4200 beats the FX5200 all day long.
November 3, 2003 1:47:36 AM

How the heck did you get that for free?
November 3, 2003 2:06:34 AM

ah, that explains it all. your defending your own personal purchase. i understand. considering that ati is giving away the HL2 game to promote there new xt cards, i doubt you have the right info on your cert for HL2. if your right though, ati giving you nearly $300 worth of stuff for free is the best deal. i stand corrected, this guy should go out and have ati buy his card for him, come to think of it i should too. your so smart, did you think of that yourself?
November 3, 2003 2:19:00 AM

As far as I've heard, the 9600XT uses 3.3ns memory while 9600pro use 2.86ns memory.

-Intel PIV 2.6C @ 3.575G -Asus P4P800 -OCZ Copper 2x256 4000EL memory @ 275mhz 3-4-4-8 -Sapphire 9800np @ 432/760 -SB audigy -120G Maxtor Diamond Plus9 S-ATA150 hdd -450 Enermax PSU
November 3, 2003 2:32:42 AM

those links tells me what?

-Intel PIV 2.6C @ 3.575G -Asus P4P800 -OCZ Copper 2x256 4000EL memory @ 275mhz 3-4-4-8 -Sapphire 9800np @ 432/760 -SB audigy -120G Maxtor Diamond Plus9 S-ATA150 hdd -450 Enermax PSU
November 3, 2003 2:33:36 AM

all the info that matters
November 3, 2003 2:34:42 AM

i'm saying pro's 2.86ns memory is rated for 350mhz, therefore it could be overclocked to 350mhz. The XT which uses 3.3ns memory is rated for 300mhz so in theory there's 0mhz memory headroom.

-Intel PIV 2.6C @ 3.575G -Asus P4P800 -OCZ Copper 2x256 4000EL memory @ 275mhz 3-4-4-8 -Sapphire 9800np @ 432/760 -SB audigy -120G Maxtor Diamond Plus9 S-ATA150 hdd -450 Enermax PSU
November 3, 2003 2:37:20 AM

i totally see what your saying, all the info and benchmarks show you that the xt out performs the Pro is all i am saying.
November 3, 2003 2:38:12 AM

I'm sure ATI did some optimizations on the core, perhaps more voltage, made the core being able to run faster. maybe on the memory also. the point is the memory both run at 300mhz default, but XT is alrdy in theory at its maximum memory frequency. While the 9600pro still in theory has 50mhz overclocking head-room.

-Intel PIV 2.6C @ 3.575G -Asus P4P800 -OCZ Copper 2x256 4000EL memory @ 275mhz 3-4-4-8 -Sapphire 9800np @ 432/760 -SB audigy -120G Maxtor Diamond Plus9 S-ATA150 hdd -450 Enermax PSU
November 3, 2003 2:40:10 AM

If you're not an overclocker or modder then the extra money for the XT is worthy, however many of us here likes to mod cards, and like the idea of getting something more for free. So if you're looking for card around 150 dollars 9600pro's still on top of my recommendations list.

-Intel PIV 2.6C @ 3.575G -Asus P4P800 -OCZ Copper 2x256 4000EL memory @ 275mhz 3-4-4-8 -Sapphire 9800np @ 432/760 -SB audigy -120G Maxtor Diamond Plus9 S-ATA150 hdd -450 Enermax PSU
November 3, 2003 2:40:45 AM

I got the HL2 upgrade with my AIW 9600 pro.

Dichromatic for your viewing plesure...
November 3, 2003 2:41:52 AM

HL2 isn't released yet right? I thought it's going to be released sometimes next April, at least that's what gamespot said.

-Intel PIV 2.6C @ 3.575G -Asus P4P800 -OCZ Copper 2x256 4000EL memory @ 275mhz 3-4-4-8 -Sapphire 9800np @ 432/760 -SB audigy -120G Maxtor Diamond Plus9 S-ATA150 hdd -450 Enermax PSU
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2003 2:44:12 AM

I'm writing reviews for another site. Doh!

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
November 3, 2003 2:45:25 AM

i totally dig the pro, however, after considering the free HL2 the 2 cards are nearly the same price. if you want to over clock the pro so that you can get the performance of a card that cost the same, well, that would be somewhat redundant and unnecessary.
November 3, 2003 2:48:52 AM

your right about the release, unless some other douchebag steals some more code. what is the HL2 upgrade the other guy mentioned?
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2003 3:03:21 AM

Quote:
ah, that explains it all. your defending your own personal purchase


You'e an idiot! I HAVE a retail boxed AIW 9600 Pro. I did NOT pay for it. It DOES include the certificate for a free copy of HL2! I don't have to make feeble attempts to prove it, as MY REVIEW can be seen at <A HREF="http://www.sysopt.com/reviews/ati-AiW9600Pro/index.html" target="_new">http://www.sysopt.com/reviews/ati-AiW9600Pro/index.html...;/A>

Now WTF is your problem, that I said the 9600 Pro is faster than the 9800SE? Look at the facts, both have 4 pipelines, based on the same technology, and the 9600 Pro is clocked higher. So why did I mention the AIW version? Simple. He was asking about cards that cost less than $200. You suggested a card that cost slightly more, because it included HL2. And I suggested that he could get the game AND a bunch of added features for just a little more than that! So basically, if you're going to tell him to exceed his budget, I can make the same suggestion! I've seen the AIW 9600 at $230, the Radeon 9600XT should cost $200, and the Radeon 9600 Pro costs around $160. So you're suggestion boosted cost by at least as much as mine.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2003 3:07:23 AM

I'm fairly certain all they did for the XT was add a better cooler.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
November 3, 2003 3:14:59 AM

ARE YOU SERIOUS? bastards, i thought at least they would raise the VGPU, so 550 even 600mhz is possible.

-Intel PIV 2.6C @ 3.575G -Asus P4P800 -OCZ Copper 2x256 4000EL memory @ 275mhz 3-4-4-8 -Sapphire 9800np @ 432/760 -SB audigy -120G Maxtor Diamond Plus9 S-ATA150 hdd -450 Enermax PSU
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2003 3:33:28 AM

It is POSSIBLE that that might have raised vVPU, but from what I've seen it's not needed.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
November 3, 2003 3:35:57 AM

hey crashman you have any idea when R420 or NV40's coming? I can't wait 'til they come out. Are they going to be released around same time as HL2 and Doom3?

-Intel PIV 2.6C @ 3.575G -Asus P4P800 -OCZ Copper 2x256 4000EL memory @ 275mhz 3-4-4-8 -Sapphire 9800np @ 432/760 -SB audigy -120G Maxtor Diamond Plus9 S-ATA150 hdd -450 Enermax PSU
November 3, 2003 4:16:53 AM

when did i say the 9800 se was better than the 9600 pro, i told you i didn't catch the title (the post mentioned nothing of the se model). when did $199.99 become a slightly greater amount than $200.00? "I can make the same suggestion!" so you agree the xt is a better value. if we all stole video cards from best buy or what ever place you knocked off to get your free $300 worth of stuff, we could all get the best deal out there. sincerely, i'm an idiot.
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2003 4:34:25 AM

R420 should be next product release. ATI has been badly screwing with progress the enthusiast expect, the 9700 Pro was SUPPOSED to be .13 micron (and 400MHz I think), but they delayed the .13 micron process because there were still production problems. Then they released the 9600 Pro on .13 micron. Then they released the 9800 Pro, which was SUPPOSED to be an updated 9700 on .13 micron. But did they? NO! Their reason? Production problems might still exist and affect volume, or so it was said! But that makes little sense because the 9600 Pro was a higher volume card!

So then the r420 was supposed to come out NOW, but instead they give us another .15 micron 9800? Why? Because nVidia has been having problem with DX9! ATI decided they could delay the r420 in order to extend the product cycle, "milk the cow" on the 9800 series, and save a bunch of money in labor by eliminating a product release!



<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2003 4:37:07 AM

9600 Pro: $160
9600XT: $200
AIW 9600 Pro: $230

Yes, if you can't see that $40 is more than $30, I don't need to repeat any more of what I said.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
November 3, 2003 4:50:25 AM

I hope ATI still uses the most generic possible stock cool like the 9800pro(not XT) so i could have fun modding it:) 

-Intel PIV 2.6C @ 3.575G -Asus P4P800 -OCZ Copper 2x256 4000EL memory @ 275mhz 3-4-4-8 -Sapphire 9800np @ 432/760 -SB audigy -120G Maxtor Diamond Plus9 S-ATA150 hdd -450 Enermax PSU
November 3, 2003 5:11:11 AM

your paying $160 for a pro, your get'n ripped off homey. oh, 9600 pro at $160 (your shitty price) plus $50 for HL2 is $210, 9600 XT with HL2 $199.99, aiw 9600 pro with HL2 $0.00. damn, no matter what i figure your getting the best price. we should all stick computer parts under our jackets while at the store. which makes me ask why did you steal a 9600 when you could have got something twice as good for the same risk? a true idiot. fact or fiction, xt is rated better than the pro? answer, yes. xt comes with HL2 for free? yes again. you say the aiw is $230? yes. ati is giving away HL2 with the aiw? no. Crashman is a tool? yes. i will be on here to make you look like a [-peep-] in the coming months? no. i am a computer nerd? no. you are? yes. you think its cool? yes. i got pussy 2 days ago? yes. you? no. you think you know everything about computers? yes. but have a tiny dick, pale skin, 20% body fat, have not talked to a living person for two weeks and between posting on this site you are downloading audio porn? yes. have fun on here ripping on "link" a guy i made to entertain myself and to start fights with total fags while in between getting drunk and getting laid. [-peep-] around on here while i [-peep-] around on the clit. ya dumb ass.
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2003 5:55:20 AM

I seriously hope your stupidity gets you killed someday and the rest of us can live in peace!

Yes, I just rechecked the 9600 Pro, it's down to $150. But arguing that it's less than $160 proves my point even more!

You suggested a $200 card:

9600 Pro: $150
9600XT: $200
AIW 9600 Pro $230

You're suggesting he pay an extra $50, I argue as long as you suggest he pay $50 more, what's another $30?

And your only arguement is that people shouldn't listen to me because my card was free? And you insult my integrety as a journalist by insisting I stole the card, even though I linked you to <A HREF="http://www.sysopt.com/reviews/ati-AiW9600Pro/index.html" target="_new">My Review</A>?

And what does the size of my penis mean to you, are you gay? My wife thinks my penis is fine, so why should you be concerned? Oh, I forgot, you haven't had one inside you for a couple days.

What are you, 8? It's a felony for me NOT to report your sexual activity at your age, so please inform me of who I need to turn in to the law!

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2003 5:59:57 AM

Oh, and lying about HL2 not comming with the AIW 9600 Pro, when I linked you to <A HREF="http://www.sysopt.com/reviews/ati-AiW9600Pro/index.html" target="_new">My Review</A>, which has a picture of the <A HREF="http://www.sysopt.com/reviews/ati-AiW9600Pro/Contents.j..." target="_new">The Contents of My Retail Box</A> and a discription of those contents, isn't going to win you any points. What, you wanted them to publish a close up of the HL2 voucher? Sorry, the review was made for real buyers, not children on $2 a week allowances.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
November 3, 2003 7:23:59 AM

The kid got pussy, thats so cool.............taking diicks up your ass is bad for your health....homie....

If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!
November 3, 2003 11:32:52 AM

hi, im just wodering how do u 'mod' a grahpics card? i hear alot about it but don't know anything about it. im going to buy a 9600 pro and iwant to overclock it can someone tell me how? thanks

and 'link' is so funny.
November 3, 2003 1:04:34 PM

Ok, that sounds like i should start talking. The 9600pro VPU runs fairly cool compare to the 9800pro. Extreme cooling is not required, a ZM80C-HP which cost about 35 dollars with the 80mm slim fan, will be more than enough, it'll get you the 500mhz core without any problems.

-Intel PIV 2.6C @ 3.575G -Asus P4P800 -OCZ Copper 2x256 4000EL memory @ 275mhz 3-4-4-8 -Sapphire 9800np @ 432/760 -SB audigy -120G Maxtor Diamond Plus9 S-ATA150 hdd -450 Enermax PSU
November 3, 2003 6:04:27 PM

i don't know if it will get me killed but it gets me all sorts of women. as it turns out, i have the day off, again. soooo, i guess i can tear your another new one, one last time. i don't know who your a journalist for but considering you have dropped your review address like 5 times, it must be some piece of [-peep-] that no one looks at and you have to resort to giving it shoutouts on this "crashman getting his pussy torn open" page. all that talk about putting your tiny penis in me? are you trying to seduce me mr crash? well, sorry father crashman but here it comes, the disappointing news, i am not a young boy. does your husband know about that fetish of yours? what would he think if he knew you liked boys as much as 3 years younger than his teen ass? oh, back to my point, your math sux and the 150 for the pro plus 50 for HL2 is 200. you can use the calculator on your computer, i did, twice, i double checked and yes it is true. 50 plus 150 is 200. it is almost like discovering E=mc2. such a complex mixture of numbers and complicated equations and without that huge gash in between your fat pasty thighs motivating me to prove you wrong, i just couldn't have done it. oh, dude you have to do some research on what getting pussy means, when your wife says come and get some pussy and then sticks it in your back door, well that aint it. good luck with that. you win, i went to your review pretty shitty work, "yet-unreleased" now i done think thats improper speakin cleadus. nah earl, it is released now but they er recalling it. oh, if you needed a bigger white area you could have used your fat ass.
November 3, 2003 6:13:20 PM

Those dirty dogs. Delaying the R420 and givibg us the 9800XT. Big Deal for $500. I'll keep my TI4200.
November 3, 2003 6:20:38 PM

I'd just like to chime in here and say that I've definitely mined a great deal of amusement from this thread. Thanks to all the participants, some really entertaining stuff here.

Also like to add that the 9600XT is identical to the 9600 PRO, but made with a low-k Dialectric process (that contributes to overclockability) and with the addition of a thermal sensor on the die (that allows for "safe overclocking" via the overdrive feature in Cat 3.9).

Architechturally identical, otherwise.

God bless you all,


------------------
Radeon 9500 (hardmodded to PRO, o/c to 322/322)
AMD AthlonXP 2400+ (o/c to 2600+ with 143 fsb)
3dMark03: 4055
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2003 8:04:12 PM

First of all I'd like to add to this crazy thread one question;

WHICH R9600Pro are you looking at? The 256 mb cards I have seen are mainly are TSOP memory (not BGA) and therefore are also likely clocked well below the 300mhz that most 'pro's are.

What is the manufacturer, and the exact model name if you don't mind my asking.

If it's the equivalent near a non-pro in the memory department, it may give that SE a run for the money as crappier card. Just a thought. However if the card is indedd clocked @ 400/300 then it should outperform the R9800SE just like Crash said.



- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2003 8:14:50 PM

Seriously I was reading this thread and thinking it was answered in the 2nd reply by Crash, however little did I know that the sequel was to offer so much entertainment.

Of course I have to disagree with Crash, or something, anything to say I disapprove, because the BA$T@RD got a FREE AIW! And I feel he needs to PAY somehow!

Also remember that there will be various OEM-partner version of the XT to come, some of the most interesting are surprisingly enough coming from the Gigacube and Powercolor ranks (PC adding 380/760mhz stock speed memory to the BRAVO edition [no info on what kind]).

Oh well, back to work (just finished a steak quesadilla and coke for lunch MMMmmm).


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2003 8:38:44 PM

Wow, you figured out 50+150=200? Really? So you didn't simply take my word for it?

Of course I liked you to my review a bunch of times because you didn't seem to know how to use links, I was hoping if I linked it enough you'd figure it out.

Anyway, it's been fun chatting with you but this thread is getting kind of old and off track.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
November 3, 2003 10:03:32 PM

*sniff*
does this mean the end of this highly entertaining thread?

Error: Keyboard not attached. Press F1 to continue
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2003 10:44:15 PM

Sorry, this is the graphics cards forum, if you want to discuss sex please visit the "others" forum.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
November 4, 2003 3:37:34 AM

wait! crashman! ah fooey, he forgot to give us the link for his "others forum" thomas sodomist is a dumb ass.
i love this line "i went to your review, pretty shitty work, "yet-unreleased" now i done think thats improper speakin cleadus. nah earl, it is released now but they er recalling it.
!