ATI R9800P, Best of What's new! Need I say more?

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Well it's official Pop.Sci. says the R9800 is #1. 'Nuff Said!

<A HREF="http://www2.ccnmatthews.com/scripts/ccn-release.pl?/current/1107001n.html" target="_new">http://www2.ccnmatthews.com/scripts/ccn-release.pl?/current/1107001n.html</A>

Just thought you guys would get a kick out of that from such a prestigious COMPUTER Mag.

And ruffle some fanboi feathers.




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[HardWareBoss]

I guess they don't like my lowly TI4200 64mb.

 

[sargeduck]

That's actually quite an acomplishment. I've been a reader of Pop. Sci for a long time, and they review alot of really nifty stuff.

I can see the fanboys screaming now: "ATI payed them off"! (despite the fact you see Nvidia adds throughout the magazine) or "they are biased, I'm never reading that magazine again!"

Error: Keyboard not attached. Press F1 to continue

 

[scottchen]

LOL, i could see the exact same thing. nVidia better Do something REALLY nice to NV40, otherwise they lost me forever. Man I loved their Geforce3 TI cards, then i wanted to upgrade to Geforce4 TI that's when ATI entered the market with R300, Radeon 9500pro kicked A$$ . Then ATI starts to win, Mainstream and high-end.

-Intel PIV 2.6C @ 3.575G -Asus P4P800 -OCZ Copper 2x256 4000EL memory @ 275mhz 3-4-4-8 -Sapphire 9800np @ 432/760 -SB audigy -120G Maxtor Diamond Plus9 S-ATA150 hdd -450 Enermax PSU

 

[coolsquirtle]

ATi SO PAID THEM OFF! AND THEY'RE BIASED, I'M NEVER READING THAT MAGAZINE AGAIN!



RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy
bring it fanATics~~ nVidia PWNS all!
SCREW aBOX! LONG LIVE nBOX!!

 

[HardWareBoss]

Like we didn't know you would say that.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

I've read Pop. Sci. for year until I moved out west. My dad has been a subscriber since the 60s.

I don't really give them much weight for reviewing computer gear but the What's New section (which they kept moving all over the magazine!) and the Annual Best of What's New has always been a favourite of mine.

It's like reading science fiction, except for the fact that people are doing/devloping this stuff!

Anywhooo I find it funny, especially since the R300 was really the ground breaking piece of hardware, not the R350 IMO.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK

 

[sargeduck]

eh, nobodies perfect. At least they got the general idea right...

Error: Keyboard not attached. Press F1 to continue

 

[coolsquirtle]

hehehe

RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy
bring it fanATics~~ nVidia PWNS all!
SCREW aBOX! LONG LIVE nBOX!!

 

[kinney]

nVidia better Do something REALLY nice to NV40, otherwise they lost me forever.

Dont say that unless you meant that as a simple expression.
The NV40 could be another flop but the NV41(?) could be fast enough to beat ATI for the next 4 years, we don't know. You know what I'm saying..

NV is not THAT bad! Look at the volari review, I mean NV/ATI both look extremely respectable in that review!
And they both are ok..
nV just took the passenger seat this round big deal!
I dont want a flame war just wanted to say that. I loved NVs Riva128, TNT1/2, Geforce, GF2, 3, 4 and had nearly them all! That was a much longer time period than the time of reign than ATI has had thus far.. 2nd place always gets this treatment no matter how close it is.
/licks NVs wounds "my preeettyyyy" :tongue:

----
I just tell it like it is and some can't handle it. If your experience is different, well congratu-fukulation.
<b>I’M NOT A ATI FANBOY, I’M NOT A NV FANBOY, I’M A STABILITY FANBOY</b>

 

[HardWareBoss]

Which Nvidia card do you have.

 

[scottchen]

But you gotta admit, NVidia lost this round. Hopefully they could do something better in the next round of battle. I like nVidia because of their better support. ATI has email and forum support, but i personally like to speak with somebody, and ATI offers that at very high cost. While nVidia offers it for free.

-Intel PIV 2.6C @ 3.575G -Asus P4P800 -OCZ Copper 2x256 4000EL memory @ 275mhz 3-4-4-8 -Sapphire 9800np @ 432/760 -SB audigy -120G Maxtor Diamond Plus9 S-ATA150 hdd -450 Enermax PSU

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

To me it's not even as much about performance. If they werre closer or nV had the advanatage, the issues of the summer which did alot of damage to their credibility and to their own customers (which I will just leave at that) have lost me for now. Unless ATI does something similar then I will favour them for the near term, which is why I focus on the R42X and not the NV40 as my next card. However should the NV40 come out and far surpass the R42X and RV380 (for it's own merits) then I will only grant ATI a pause in my ppurchasing decision, for them to return with a competitive product, otherwise I will go with nV despite my dislike of past events.

But then again that's my personal view, and MY money of course.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK

 

[kinney]

The driver issues never bothered me. I'm sure both are loaded with cheats and optimizations, like Quack3. The way I see it, as long as I cant tell a difference in game, its fair game for optimizing.
But the reviewers dissect the drivers, probably out of snide hate for NV.
They look for anything that might compromise IQ, but most of the time you have to take a still and zoom in on it 10x in photoshop it to tell.
Does it really matter when the game of choice is a 100+FPS first person shooter?
Its almost becoming like politics IMO.

This is not the current ATI/NV situation, but I dont care if a card looks like dirt in photoshop, if it is playable and another is not I'll take the speedy one.

They probably feel its necessary because some money is on the line. But NV isnt hurting, they have 60% of the DX9 market.. their chips are not ever going to be ignored with statistics like that even if they are 5200s. And their workstation gfx are still the best in the market, according to my knowledge.
So the desperation probably wasnt worth the damage, but it doesnt hurt my 'image' of them. Ha..
I generally wouldnt bandwagon against NV though because I've always liked their product alot, they've been kind to my system.

But no FX for me.

----
I just tell it like it is and some can't handle it. If your experience is different, well congratu-fukulation.
<b>I’M NOT A ATI FANBOY, I’M NOT A NV FANBOY, I’M A STABILITY FANBOY</b>

 

[kinney]

But you gotta admit, NVidia lost this round. Hopefully they could do something better in the next round of battle. I like nVidia because of their better support. ATI has email and forum support, but i personally like to speak with somebody, and ATI offers that at very high cost. While nVidia offers it for free.

I didnt even realize this.

I know when to back down, NV tried a power move and it backfired on them, otherwise I believe they'd still be the unquestioned leader still. Heck, Im typing this using a 9800 gpu... I believe in efficient bandwidth usage.
This sounds like fanboyism, and is to an extent but I've never had to use NV tech support. The only time I've had an issue with any NV hardware is when I used VIA chipsets but I tried every video card in those and had little luck.
Since I started using stable chipsets (SIS/NV/Intel), I never had single problem with NV since. But I have with ATI drivers. The only company I'm starting to really despise is Creative [thumbs down], based off of their compatibility/stability issues.
I'm just amazed at how the latest cards all bench so fast and when I play something like COD (heavily modded Q3ATeam/RTCW engine) my system is brought to its knees. I'm considering selling the 9800 and waiting until I can upgrade the entire system (circa NV40s release).

K I'm done ranting. Thats good news tho about NV support.

----
I just tell it like it is and some can't handle it. If your experience is different, well congratu-fukulation.
<b>I’M NOT A ATI FANBOY, I’M NOT A NV FANBOY, I’M A STABILITY FANBOY</b>

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Just a few quick blurbs.;

First, the issues bother me when they goi against the owner/community's wishes. Alot of the issues gave false impressions that were later confirmed by poor performance (no matter what you did). And if one card plays with better IQ AND better FPS, then the cheating just makes it look otherwise (not always IQ cheats).

Their reaction to the issues also bothered me.

The whole thing is just not GOOD no matter how it's painted.

And the issues that actually bother me now are more related to TWIMTBP and CG vs HLSL. I don't like waiting for performance to increase if I'm paying that much for a card. What if my title isn't one that nV feels they wish to spend any time optimizing for (sound like ATI & CS?). To me it's not so much an issue if it's an older game but these will be newer games requiriing these work arounds. IT's just an issue for me, and other may differ. nV's attitude towards a few of these things, and towards every other player (be they gamers, MS, FM, or reviewers) in the marketplace/community just doesn't sit well with me.

Onto the other item;

While nV owns the cheap DX9 market (you figure is actually high, it's just over 50% [around 54%]), that's thanks to it's 73% low-price market share. Ati still owns the mid to high end market, which is where we were really focusing this discussion, and definitely I'm focusing my next pruchase.

As Xbit say about that;

<i>NVIDIA also tripled its sales of the Performance Direct X 9.0 GPUs and grabbed 32% of the market. ATI was flat in terms of units and its share felt [sic] to 68%. In overall, it means that ATI Technologies still sells loads more high-performance DirectX 9.0 parts than the rival. </i>

And considering that most people (or developers) don't look to the FX5200 as being a standard DX9 part, I would think the focus would be on the performance and mid-range market more than the low-end screensaver cards for their optimizing and targeting. Sure it will PLAY on the FX5200 (likely slower than the GF4ti), but you will get the most out of it with an R9600Pro/FX5700 level card and above. I can see it now on the box Requirements : R9000/FX5200 class card 64mb or higher. Requirements for DX9.X effects: R9600P/FX5600U/FX5700U 128mb or higher.
I don't see the FX5200U really playing a realistic role in any future titles, so I don't think that's a valid argument in favour of the nV line. IMNSHO

In any case the next generation is a whole new story, and ATI may very well miss the boat with it's jump to architecture supporting 32bit, but that will only be apparent as preview cards hit the market. And then I will give ATI the one chance that I wouldn't give nV at this point in history.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Interestingly enough it seems that Pop. Sci. is giving these things out like candy;

nV GF FX5900U now gets one too.

Seriously SMOOTH.

this nV release about ti though definitely has more PR in it thanthe CCN version, but that's to be expected, I'm sure the one from ATI's site is equally 's(h)ining'.

<A HREF="http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_9436.html" target="_new">http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_9436.html</A>


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK

 

[scottchen]

Why was the 5200 series ever produced, it's worse than the Geforce4 MX440 in most cases.

-Intel PIV 2.6C @ 3.575G -Asus P4P800 -OCZ Copper 2x256 4000EL memory @ 275mhz 3-4-4-8 -Sapphire 9800np @ 432/760 -SB audigy -120G Maxtor Diamond Plus9 S-ATA150 hdd -450 Enermax PSU

 

[daddywags214]

It's all marketing my good man

<b>nVidia cheated on me so I left her for ATi. ATi's hotter anyway...</b>

 

[kinney]

I agree with most everything you've said.

I just wasnt bothered by NV or their typical corporate reaction. I think they are full of pride, and for good reason. NV kicks a$$ IMO.

As far as market ownership, I thought my figure was from xbit but it doesnt matter really, they have a considerable marketshare as ATI does.

I think either 'side' could paint the picture of the current situation any way they wanted to. I try to bring out some fairness for NV as they arent really that bad IMHO they just have the bandwagon against them ya know. Happens to everyone once in a while but i feel they'll bounce back like you said.

As far as the 5200, its no performer.. I just meant their architechure wont be completely ignored with such market coverage.

----
I just tell it like it is and some can't handle it. If your experience is different, well congratu-fukulation.
<b>I’M NOT A ATI FANBOY, I’M NOT A NV FANBOY, I’M A STABILITY FANBOY</b>

 

[coolsquirtle]

Riva 128
TNT2
GeForce 2 MX400
GeForce 4 Ti4200
GeForce FX 5200 (shh..... no one knows this yet)
GeForce 5 SX 1
GeForce 5 SX 1 SUPERDUPERULTRA EDITION



RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy
bring it fanATics~~ nVidia PWNS all!
SCREW aBOX! LONG LIVE nBOX!!

 

[sargeduck]

Kinda late in terms of the topic.

Anywhooo I find it funny, especially since the R300 was really the ground breaking piece of hardware, not the R350 IMO.

Didn't this come out last year? (can't remember exactly) If that's the case, then that would explain why they looked at the R350 and not the R300


Error: Keyboard not attached. Press F1 to continue

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Yeah, but it didn't get the recognition THEN.

Since it's release was in Aug/Sept. of '02, it obviously missed the dealine for proving itself.

Seems to me they skipped a generation.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Yeah, it's funny. I wanted to post this yesterday evening after coming in from 'socializing' and my ADSL was down (found out it was server maintenance @4am [one advanatage of working at the phone company, I find out why ]).

Anywhoo, take a look at the FINAL editiorial from the Editor of NotForIdiots, it's very interesting and kinda relates to what we are talking about, and also reflects my views in the 'issues' area.

I did find the R400 segment kinda cool (coulda been ATI's NV30).

<A HREF="http://www.notforidiots.com/ULE.php" target="_new">http://www.notforidiots.com/ULE.php</A>


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK

 

[kinney]

That is a good article. Hes right on for the most part.

----
I just tell it like it is and some can't handle it. If your experience is different, well congratu-fukulation.
<b>I’M NOT A ATI FANBOY, I’M NOT A NV FANBOY, I’M A STABILITY FANBOY</b>