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Should I just buy PNY FX 5900 or wait for R420?

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November 9, 2003 4:59:07 PM

Hi there!

I have just browsed compusa.com and have seen a great rebate on PNY FX 5900. And it is only $200 bucks. I personally think it is a great deal, it is better than 9600xt and FX 5700 ultra. I need to upgrade my graphic card because it is an old Geforce 2 mx 400. Should I just buy it or wait for the R420 or NV40 in the first quarter of next year? I have heard that they have 16 pipelines and 2 times faster than the radeon 9800 pro.

More about : buy pny 5900 wait r420

November 9, 2003 5:12:36 PM

Upgrade the rest of your PC instead of flopping money on that crap. Get some rounded IDE cables...or get a new mobo or CPU. I'd put the money to good use. Or just hang onto it and don't spend it...and put it toward the 420

----------
<b>Got any of that beer that has candy floating in it? You know, Skittlebrau? </b> <i>Homer Simpson</i>

TKS
November 9, 2003 5:27:33 PM

what are the rest of your specs?? It would help to know what you need to work on (if anything) to speed up your games in the meantime. Anyway, if you only have 4x AGP, you won't be able to utilize all the speed of the R42X, so you might want to upgrade you motherboard in the meantime.

Damn Rambus.
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November 9, 2003 9:27:44 PM

Helloooooo ppl. If you are going to spend money on a vga card its only worth looking at R9800not pro and pro for about $200 on newegg or ebay. i was a nvidia fan b4 I got GFX5600ultra only to find out its so crap so after 3 days i exchanged for R9700pro and paid £100 extra(6mths ago).

Just look at DX9 figures and u see that if you are not going so spend more money again and want a card now to last for a couple of years go for Radeon 9800 its a sure winner at the moment (and way way way silenter).

THINK ABOUT IT ---lol---
November 9, 2003 9:43:46 PM

Amateur troll: I do not appreciate the extraneous information.

He was wondering (in case you didn't read his post) if it was worth it to buy an FX 5900 now (at a great deal that newegg does not have for the 9800s) or to wait for the big guns later. I elect that he wait for the big guns later, unless he has 4xAGP, in which case he should buy the 5900 (due to the 5900s and 9800s being the fist cards to show weakness with a 4x bus) or get a newer motherboard.

Damn Rambus.
November 9, 2003 10:29:52 PM

What kind of computer do you have?
The FX 5900 isn't crap... anymore, Nvida has new drivers (Forceware) and they show great performance, well for the FX 5900 Ultra anyway. It would be pointless if you got this card and your running a relatively low spec computer.

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Add witty comment here.
November 9, 2003 11:17:16 PM

the "big guns" will cost a lot more than $200
buying something that just came out is stupid
SO if u can wait until atleast end of Q2 2004, then wait, otherwise get a FX5900, despite what many think, FX5900 will last longer than R9600pro DX9 or no DX9.

RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy
bring it fanATics~~ nVidia PWNS all!
SCREW aBOX! LONG LIVE nBOX!!
November 10, 2003 12:00:48 AM

My video card(Geforce 2mx 400) was a disgrace in my computer. Here is my computer spec:

amd xp 2700+, asus A7N8X, Seagate ultra ata-100 120 gb, Plextor 52X32X52 cdrw, Sound Blaster Audigy 2 and 512 pc2700 kingston ram.
November 10, 2003 1:41:54 AM

Yeah, it's about time for an upgrade on that :) 

I just swapped out my GF2 GTS for a R9800 AIW Pro a month ago and am I ever happy I did. A substantial video card upgrade is always worth it. The R9600 is no slouch.

Some day I'll be rich and famous for inventing a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet.
November 10, 2003 2:05:15 AM

MX440 working for now stick with that. You want to wait for the new stuff do that. How long can you wait for your upgrade?
a b U Graphics card
November 10, 2003 2:53:46 AM

Your logic is VERY flawed.

First so what if the R420 wouldn't get fully serviced by the 4X AGP bus (which there is no definitive info on yet). The FX5900 however, while using most of the 4X and not the 8X would be a poor choice.

Having his current MOBO hold back an R42X (or an NV40 for that matter) is a much better choice. And since his mobo does support 8X then it's a moot point.

However those are off in the future. The reason to NOT wait has little to do with his AGP speed, it would have to do with his current card sucking and wanting an upgrade for a game he plays now.

The R9800 would be on par for both price and performance (except in DX9 where the R98090 would walk away from the nV competition.

If he wants stay with nV, then and he is willing to, then he should wait for the NV40, otherwise go with an R9800 now, and then sell it when the new cards come out. He will likely be able to recoup a fair amount of money from whichever you purchase (although things may change with newer benchmarks by the time those cards come out).

He could get an FX5900 but I don't think it will retain it's value as well.

<b>CoolS</b>, yes the FX5900 is better than the R9600 se4ries in most things (DX9 may be the only major issue), however when compared tot the R9800nono-pro, the FX5900non-ultra isn't as attractive, especially as a potential resale part.

Then again that's my opinion.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
November 10, 2003 1:11:33 PM

I completely disagree with you. (I know that most of what follows is a moot point since he has 8x AGP, which I did not know) If he can't use a card to it's full potential, WHY BUY IT?? If he's never going to get any more performance out of a card that a 5900 or a 9800, why not just get it now when a great price is available?? I'd imagine that since he is in market now (partially, at least), he is looking to upgrade a card that doesn't play a certain game the way it was meant to be played.

As for information about the R42X and the NV40: it should be unnecessary. The fact that the 9800Pro and the 5900Ultra finally show the true colors of the 8x bus means that they are the fastest cards that will run nearly 'fully serviced' on the 4x bus. The only reason why I would wait would be to lower prices.

I think that since he can buy the 5900 for 200 at CompUSA and is looking for an upgrade now, go and get it (it's not the horrible card that EVERYONE cept nvidiots say it is [and no, im not an nvidiot, I'm actually getting a 9800Pro or 9800XT in the coming weeks]).

The only reason why I would wait would be if I were to upgrade my motherboard at some later point (this is still all speculating on if somebody had a 4xAGP bus, like me). However, certain people (like my parents) consider a motherboard or CPU change a 'complete' upgrade, and refuse to do let me do it until Q2/Q3 2005. Quite frankly (this was where my fault was in what I said the past couple of posts) I did forget the fact that other people are willing/allowed to upgrade their motherboard and still keep components to use on the upgraded system (i.e., new motherboard=new motherboard, not: new motherboard=new motherboard + CPU + RAM [well, maybe those two] + GPU + sound card + HDD + monitor + case + DVD-ROM + CD-RW + blah, blah, blah). If I knew I were allowed to get a motherboard/CPU/RAM upgrade in a year or so, then I would hold off on my 9800 and get an R42X (or NV40, depending which one was faster) when it came out.

I'm sorry, but I do not understand your logic. To me, if I buy a 500 dollar card, I don't want to be limited to using only 200-300 dollars of it. A much wiser investment IMO would be to buy a 200 dollar card and use 198-199 dollars of it.

I agree that the 9800s are faster than the 5900s, however, I have not seen that good of a deal on any quality 9800s.

Concluding, since he does have the 8x AGP bus, I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT HE WAIT (see Grapey, given the needed information, I'm not as dumb as I seem). Frankly, that deal is sweet, but better cards are coming (as well as better deals on other cards) and he does not seem to be in any particular emergency to get a card (if you are, get the 5900 for 200 at CompUSA, the difference will be shocking). However, I feel that my 4x logic is quite sensible, unless the R42X/NV40 can run at 75% on 4x when they are twice as good as their predecessors on 8x or 16x (meaning that they would run 50% better than the 9800s and the 5900s on the 4x, not my theoretical equality). Anyway, only time will tell and I don't feel like waiting.

Damn Rambus.
a b U Graphics card
November 10, 2003 6:11:25 PM

Quote:
If he can't use a card to it's full potential, WHY BUY IT?? If he's never going to get any more performance out of a card that a 5900 or a 9800...

Pretty simple, because the MOBO choices will get much better then, than now, and even if it saturates a 4X bus it'll still run better than an FX5900/R9800 on that same bus. However once he does upgrade the Mobo he'll get a substantial boost in performance, instead of having to turn around sell and repurchase, thus losing the difference between the current buying price, and what he eventually sells them for.

As for him upgrading now for a game currently causing problems, I addressed that in my last post as the major reason to upgrade now. But if he is talking about waiting for the R42X then obviously it is not a RUSH issue.

Quote:

The fact that the 9800Pro and the 5900Ultra finally show the true colors of the 8x bus means that they are the fastest cards that will run nearly 'fully serviced' on the 4x bus.

Yeah show me where they are, I have yet to see any significant diff. There are VERY few examples where there is anything even close to a % difference, and even then it is VERY few applications, and they aren't games, they are 3D apps. Even still 4X on an R420/NV40 will likely STILL far outperform either an R9800 or FX5900 in a faster or equivalent slot.

I think your restrictions also limit you in your approach to things like this.
Rememeber that the next logical upgrade IMO for someone in the AMD fold, is the AMD 64 FX, however the 939 socket version won't be out until Q2 2004, whereas the R42X and NV40 should hit the market before that. So getting an R42X with a PCI-EX-AGP adapter would allow the person to get the better graphics whihc may be somewhat held back by even an 8X bus, but they will have that nice option in the fuure of removing the adapter and going straight to PCI-EX without needed another upgrade. For someone who's last GRFX upgrade was obviously a while ago, I think that would make the most sense and be most flexible. A new MOBO now would really be a dead-end in the AMD architecture, and even in the Intel world, things are changing (although Prescott supporting boards are already out there). To me a MOBO change even with a slower AGP slot makes less sense at this point. But like I said in my last post,that all relies on the idea that this person was willing to wait for the R42X/NV40 and did not have a pressing need.

Where you miss my point is that while you use $200 of your $500 card NOW, in a few months you use all of that $500 card, which will kill that older card, and you haven't lost the diff. in price when upgrading. Your solution gives him a $200 card which he resells for $100 and then he has to buy that better card. In that case after all is said and done, he has spent the equivalent of $600 for that $500 card. It mainly depends on time frames, resources (money), and wether or not the card is needed right now, like yours.

For me I want a new Mobo AND a New Card (I will be getting the R42X or RV380 when they come out), but right now the AMD 64 requires registered DDR memory, and so Im FORCED to wait for the 939 socket MOBO anyways, which won't hit the market until AFTER he R42X/NV40, and by which time I'll likely be able to get PCI-EXI equiped MOBO and fully utilise those cards. Woohoo! :cool:

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
November 10, 2003 6:32:34 PM

Quote:
Pretty simple, because the MOBO choices will get much better then, than now, and even if it saturates a 4X bus it'll still run better than an FX5900/R9800 on that same bus.

Now agreed--I didn't realize that even if they both saturate the bus (which you disproved later), the faster card will run faster, not equally.

Quote:
However once he does upgrade the Mobo he'll get a substantial boost in performance, instead of having to turn around sell and repurchase, thus losing the difference between the current buying price, and what he eventually sells them for.

As for him upgrading now for a game currently causing problems, I addressed that in my last post as the major reason to upgrade now. But if he is talking about waiting for the R42X then obviously it is not a RUSH issue.

I agree

Quote:
Yeah show me where they are, I have yet to see any significant diff. There are VERY few examples where there is anything even close to a % difference, and even then it is VERY few applications, and they aren't games, they are 3D apps. Even still 4X on an R420/NV40 will likely STILL far outperform either an R9800 or FX5900 in a faster or equivalent slot.

I thought I saw some on Toms' and just figured that the 4x bus was finally showing weakness. Anyway, I don't have the time or the will to find it (now that I do pretty much agree with you on this matter). If in fact they are only 3D apps..hell, I'll probably wait for R42X.

Quote:
Rememeber that the next logical upgrade IMO for someone in the AMD fold, is the AMD 64 FX, however the 939 socket version won't be out until Q2 2004, whereas the R42X and NV40 should hit the market before that. So getting an R42X with a PCI-EX-AGP adapter would allow the person to get the better graphics whihc may be somewhat held back by even an 8X bus, but they will have that nice option in the fuure of removing the adapter and going straight to PCI-EX without needed another upgrade. For someone who's last GRFX upgrade was obviously a while ago, I think that would make the most sense and be most flexible. A new MOBO now would really be a dead-end in the AMD architecture, and even in the Intel world, things are changing (although Prescott supporting boards are already out there). To me a MOBO change even with a slower AGP slot makes less sense at this point. But like I said in my last post,that all relies on the idea that this person was willing to wait for the R42X/NV40 and did not have a pressing need.

Agreed--in fact, I might try to pull that one off with my non-understanding parents. Either way, I'm probably waiting for the R42X/NV40.

Quote:
Where you miss my point is that while you use $200 of your $500 card NOW, in a few months you use all of that $500 card, which will kill that older card, and you haven't lost the diff. in price when upgrading. Your solution gives him a $200 card which he resells for $100 and then he has to buy that better card. In that case after all is said and done, he has spent the equivalent of $600 for that $500 card. It mainly depends on time frames, resources (money), and wether or not the card is needed right now, like yours.

Agreed in that it is not right for someone to upgrade now and then again later. However, I was taking from the standpoint that this would the final upgrade with this mobo. The next upgrade would be more complete, i.e., mobo, GPU, CPU, RAM, etc...

Quote:
For me I want a new Mobo AND a New Card (I will be getting the R42X or RV380 when they come out), but right now the AMD 64 requires registered DDR memory, and so Im FORCED to wait for the 939 socket MOBO anyways, which won't hit the market until AFTER he R42X/NV40, and by which time I'll likely be able to get PCI-EXI equiped MOBO and fully utilise those cards. :smile: Woohoo!

Drool...Anyway, I'll probably stick with the registered RAM version when I get around to upgrading because I love RAM and use a lot of when I get going.

Anyway, sorry for the misunderstanding, I was taking a very specific standpoint (i.e., restricted to 4x for almost forever and ever) with very little raw data (not that you had any, but I believe you). You were taking a very general, typical scenario.

Damn Rambus.
November 10, 2003 6:43:08 PM

I can't remember ever seeing a bench that showed a respectable difference between using a 4x AGP or 8x AGP bus. If memory serves the biggest difference I saw in a banchmark somewhere was a 5% difference when using a very high resolution. Don't remember where I saw it though...

As far as my opinion on this whole upgrade subject, just follow the rule:

<b>NEVER, EVER upgrade until you OWN an app or game that runs too slow on your current setup.</b>

Cards ALWAYS get cheaper, and your dollars/performance ratio always goes down.
If you're upgrading for something that isn't released yet, you're wasting your money.

If you HAVE a game that's running too slow for your tastes with your current video card, the Geforce 5900 is a pretty darn good deal at about $210.

In my opinion though, a Radeon 9800 is a better deal for about $240... it's a better card, plain and simple.

It all depends on what you play. Do you play counter strike? Warcraft 3? You'll be fine with the Geforce2 MX.

Are you playing Max Payne 2? Tron 2.0? Get yourself a 5900 or 9800.

If you're upgrading for Doom3 or Half Life 2, wait until they come out. Something better will be available, and what's available now will be cheaper.


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Radeon 9500 (hardmodded to PRO, o/c to 322/322)
AMD AthlonXP 2400+ (o/c to 2600+ with 143 fsb)
3dMark03: 4055
November 10, 2003 7:02:31 PM

I remember seeing that same 5% difference (I think it was here on Toms') and thought that 4x had finally maxxed out. Oh well, I wasn't the most knowledgable computer person then (hell, I'm nothing compared to people here). Anyway, I have a demo that chews my card apart I will definitely buy the game of (NFS:U) since it is such a great game for teenage car-nuts like myself. That can wait, I don't think it's too necessary to have higher than 25FPS on a racing game (once you get to know the car and the course, of course). I would also like Halo to be a little more clean looking (AA spoiled me--and it doesn't work in Halo) so I'd need to turn up the resolution...which simply won't work.

I will definitely be playing Doom3 and HL2...when they come out (hopefully around the time of R42X). I play Morrowind (scene loading occurs too often to care about framerate), RTCW (runs rediculously fast), Halo (rips my card apart at decent looking images [i have a high standard]), NFS:U demo (I love that demo), Madden 2004 (starts to run slowly at full detail and 1280x960 2xAA), CS (nothing intensive), UT2003 (nothing intensive), and Rainbow Six 3 (runs OK, haven't really played too much--just got it).

Anyway, I'm convinced to wait.

Damn Rambus.
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