Gerforce FX and Halflife 2

euphoria651 · Nov 13, 2003

Have nvidia fixed the problem yet(direct X 9.0)? im looking at (was)getting an albatron FX5600CP card and i want to know if the card is any good and if nvidia got hl2 working propery?

Judge me all you want; just keep the verdict to yourself!!!

twofruitz · Nov 13, 2003

dont even bother with nvidia fx. by an ATI 9600pro, cheaper, better for HL2 and Doom3 and they are just great in general. also cheaper

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6973142" target="_new">3dmark2001</A>

2.4C @ 3.0G
Asus P4C800
Corsair 2x512 3200
Sapphire 9600pro @ 500/700
80G Seagate S-ATA150

euphoria651 · Nov 13, 2003

Im not sure about cheaper. My friend is looking at getting a Radeon 9600 Pro for about $280. I can get an FX5600 for $198. I have been comparing reviews and performance and they bothseem to be about the same. It only has issues wiht Direct X9 and if nvidia gets those cleared up then ill get an FX 5600. If not i spose ill get a Radeon 9600 pro. Does anyone know if/when they release the new detonator drivers. if so did they fix hte problem

Judge me all you want; just keep the verdict to yourself!!!

TheGreatGrapeApe · Nov 13, 2003

The R9600Pro will beat the FX5600 in just about every recent game,and definitely in future DX9 titles.

The FX5700 isn't bad, but it will be more expensive than the R9600Pro.

What are those prices? Canadian? That's even more expensive than FutureShop, so obviously he/she hasn't looked hard enough, you should be able to get it for around <A HREF="http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=9702&vpn=100-437003" target="_new">$240 like at NCIX</A> for BBA retail box, or less (I have seen them for $209 online) for whitebox OEM). And if your friend isn't overclocking then <A HREF="http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=10419&vpn=VCSR96P128" target="_new">this Sapphire R9600Pro</A> would be a good deal for $220.

The FX5600 is nowhere near the same card as the FX5600U, and even then you would need to make sure it's a Second Revision FX5600U in order for it to be even close to the performance of the R9600Pro.

The issues with HL2 still exist, nV has somewhat of a workaround in mind, but it won't give you the same DX9 effects of the Radeon cards using that workaround.

If you were simply interested in DX8/8.1 titles then I'd say go with whatever is cheaper, but as you are talking about HL2 (and I assume other DX9 titles) then the R9600Pro is the choice for those titles, at least in that category.

But that's just my two frames worth.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

HarrY · Nov 13, 2003

I think its unlikely that nV will turn things
around.....with better drivers......9600 pro is the
way to go.......n thats where i m going

HardWareBoss · Nov 13, 2003

Could not have said it any better myself.

sem · Nov 13, 2003

i have a 9600 non pro built by ati, the card sucks. The pros are probably much better, with the higher clocked core and ram but i cant believe they would run half life 2 or doomIII all that well even if they do run those games better than NVs' crap. My 9600 has all kinds of issues with openGL titles, the framrate is poor compared to older nvidia cards i owned, it refuses to run in 16bit color, I dunno I think if your really wanting to play the future DX9 games your gonna need a higher class of card. I have a 1.5ghz P4 r9600 768 meg of ram and it doesnt even handle morrowind worth a sh!t. even older titles like tribes2 it has all sorts of trouble with. IMO if your gearing up for the new DX9 games your better off going all the way and getting the best mobo and cpu available and a high end card to match. The first chance i get my ati is going on ebay and ill be getting an old 4ti so i can play the games i already have. This is the first time i ever felt i needed a "down"grade.

Vapor · Nov 13, 2003

I would have been lucky to say it half cleanly as that. However, if he is only interested in playing DX8/8.1 games, I'd recommend a Ti4200 or Ti4800. They have excellent DX8(.1) capabilities and cost less, just don't try running any DX9 on them.

Damn Rambus.

fragglefart · Nov 13, 2003

Nvidia are working on DX9 workarounds, but the 9600Pro will always be better than a 5600 at future titles.
seriously-
DO NOT UPGRADE UNTIL THE GAMES ARE OUT.
sorry for shouting

By the time these games are out you will probably be able to afford a decent 9800 NP.
ok?

............................................
Render times? You'll find me down the pub...

silverpig · Nov 13, 2003

My R9800 Pro runs HL2 at 1280x1024x32 with 2x FSAA and 8x Aniso at ~65 fps average/35 minimum. This is with an XP 1800+ and 512 DDR. You won't have any problems running HL2 on an R9600 Pro, you just won't be able to run 1600x1200/FSAA/Aniso/etc etc.

Some day I'll be rich and famous for inventing a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet.

TheGreatGrapeApe · Nov 14, 2003

The R9600Pro is a very different card than the non-pro.

And based on valves own benchmarks, it runs HL2 OK at normal resolution without AA/AF. 1280x1024 should be ok. I wouldn't be surprised if HL2 with everything enabled runs better than Halo2, which runs pretty smooth on my R9600Pro.

The main thing is how much money you are willing to spend on your Card. 1024x768 is very realistic for most DX9 titles out there, and that's not bad for 'next generation' games on a mid-range card. Certainly an R9700xx/9800xx (except SE) will do better, but at a double the price premium?

I agree with some here (like fragglefart), and have said so for a long time, that you should always wait for the games to actual arrive that push you to buy a new card, but if there is but one good opportunity to upgrade because perhaps ANOTHER game is pushing your current rig (like Halo), then looking towards the HL2 and D]|[ side of things is very realistic.

The main thing with Tribes is that just like CS it is no longer a current title, and the return/interest in optimizing the card to play on it just isn't there to the same extent as newer titles that are more likely to spwan offshoot titles, and other items that upgraders are willing to pay for. Of course they are classic games, but truely they are not the focus of most gamers wanting to get newer cards. Obviously that doesn't work out for people who expected the new technology to translate into performance increases in old games.
Also the R9600non-pro is really a poor example of the R9600 series. They are closer aligned with the FX5200s IMO.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

TKS · Nov 14, 2003

Fixed the problem? They can't fix it. See their architecture won't allow for anything else but to 'patch' the problem up. You want a boat with a million holes in it that are patched up? Hey, the boat still performs up to par with the ATI one that doesn't have any holes...so what's the big deal? Well, if you want to go that way go for it...but I think that you eventually find a game that they didn't 'patch' things for and you'll be terribly disappointed.

That's the bad part about getting a card that has to optimize itself for every game.

----------
It is always brave to say what everyone thinks. Georges Duhamel

TKS

kinney · Nov 14, 2003

There is some truth to this but you are using a 9600 nonpro.

I think NV drivers are better optimized for older games. I cant really speak for NV anymore though as I use a 9800Pro.

BTW to those interested in upgrading, I got a 9800NP for about $230 and flashed the bios to a Pro for free.. for $80 over the 9600pro I think its worth it, but you cant go wrong either way. NPs were going for $180 refurbed at newegg.
I buy refurb over new for many reasons when I can personally.

Sometimes I also wonder if my 9800 is really pumped for all its performance as things just dont seem as smooth as with my GF. Its hard to explain.. you'd have to use both.
Sad fact is though, even though I feel this is true the current GF's are not up to par and wont match the ATIs no matter how 'smooth'.
Might be worth waiting for NV40.

edit- These 9700pro <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1683&p=22" target="_new">cpu scaling benchmarks</A> show quite a flatter curve in respect to CPU speed. Which means its better optimized for.
I'm not saying this is law, these are outdated benchmarks and I'd like to see newer ones.
But even on the 9700Pro release it shouldnt get beaten by a GF4 in ANY case. Its a drastically superior card. Driver maturity isnt a fair comparison here either.
Something to ponder and flame me about though.

----
I just tell it like it is and some can't handle it. If your experience is different, well congratu-fukulation.
I’M NOT A ATI FANBOY, I’M NOT A NV FANBOY, I’M A STABILITY FANBOYEdited by kinney on 11/13/03 09:26 PM.

euphoria651 · Nov 14, 2003

Australian dollars its tradin about US$0.70/1aus

Judge me all you want; just keep the verdict to yourself!!!

sem · Nov 14, 2003

my card wont even display tribes2 in 32 bit color. That sucks regardless of the hampered ram speed on the board it should still run the game in 32 bit color. I am just not as big a fan of ati as everyone is lately i guess. Maybe its because the games i have and love are a mess with this damn card. I really dont care how its going to perform on a game that i cant even purchase yet. There is no reasonable excuse for it to not display in the color depth that the game defines. I tried a bunch of different driver versions, fast write on and off and nothing helps. After you play a game for 2 years in full color and then all of sudden its 16 bit, well its looks pretty damn ugly. Not to mention the occasional lock ups and vpu recover messages. Maybe its my card, but i will not be buying ati again. I honestly think the voodoo 5 I still have in the closet ran damn near as well as this thing.

Guest · Nov 14, 2003

Captain Obvious also recommends an ATI card!
NVidia's DX9 issues are essentially unfixable.

Captain Obvious To The Rescue!!!

TheGreatGrapeApe · Nov 14, 2003

Seriously I meant it, no need to upgrade for a game that's 2 years old. Use technology that's 2 years old.

BTW, the R9600P isn't for games yet to come out, it's perfect for HALO (a current fav. of mine, but still not as good as the Xbox version IMO [cooperative play is awesome]), and many other current games, including my favourite Morrowind. Not everyone is waiting for HL2, nor just buying based on that.

Unfortunately sometimes you can't get hardware to work right, it happens alot and not just for one mfr. PErsonally I'd prefer it doesn't work with the 2 year old game rather than newer games. The COD problems are more of a concern than ANY old game, even CS.

IF you can RMA your Radeon, get an FX, jjst don't complain if some DX9 game comes out that has similar issues on the FX card. The main thing is get something that works for you.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

TheGreatGrapeApe · Nov 14, 2003

Ah, ok, can't help you with prices then.

IF the prices are that different the main thing is to avoid the FX5600 non-ultra, and if you can try and make sure it's at least an FX5600Ultra revision 2. I still say the R9600PRO is a better choice, but it really depends on what the games that are going to be played on it will be.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

sem · Nov 14, 2003

Your right ape, the thread got a little off track. I wasnt upgrading to improve the games i currently have i just needed a new card because my old one died on me. I figured the 9600np with its higher clock and more impressive specs all around would work just as well for my games, in some cases it is better(morrowind,bf1942) in others its a disaster(tribes2)lol! But the half life 2 question posed by the author of this thread is an easy one. I think everyone agrees that ati is gonna probably put nvidia out of business when all the new DX9 games including HL2 arrive. If his intent is to build a rig thats gonna work well for HL2 i cant imagine why he would buy any fx. But for me with an old p41.5 i would have been better served with a G4ti due to price and the fact that no matter how high end my video card is, my sdram and cpu are gonna nerf it and i wouldnt be able to play the new titles anyway, without a total system upgrade. The COD issues with ati are a bit troubling though, its just another example of their poor execution of OpenGL games.

cleeve · Nov 14, 2003

I have a 9500 PRO, and I can run the Half-Life ALPHA... unoptimized, dirty code... smooth as silk on my setup.

A GeforceFX 5600 or 5700 will *not* do that.

I can also run the Doom3 Alpha quite nicely, as well.

The 5600/5700 might run it a little better in Doom3, but I doubt much...

------------------
Radeon 9500 (hardmodded to PRO, o/c to 322/322)
AMD AthlonXP 2400+ (o/c to 2600+ with 143 fsb)
3dMark03: 4055

TheGreatGrapeApe · Nov 14, 2003

The funny thing about COD, under CAT 3.8 it runs relatively fine and faster than the FXs. It seems it's really something particular to 3.9 that's F'in everything up.

That's ok the COD issue brought Kinney here with it and through the audio segment I learned (while checking their knowledge base) about Creative's new EAX drivers. So I actually BENIFITED from the COD issues.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

euphoria651 · Nov 15, 2003

Whats COD? in relation to the problems with Radeon?

BTW thanks all for help

Judge me all you want; just keep the verdict to yourself!!!

TheGreatGrapeApe · Nov 15, 2003

COD = Call of Duty. Recent (new) game.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

Gerforce FX and Halflife 2

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