why NON-VOLATILE FLASH MEMORY?

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

pailface88@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> What is the reason for using NON-VOLATILE, FLASH MEMORY on the new Palm
> Tungstens? I have been using a TE for a couple years and non-volatile
> memory would have never done me any good. The TE shuts down before the
> battery goes dead anyway. I always keep my TE backed up to an SD card
> which is of course non-volatile.

What do you mean, "The TE shuts down before the battery goes dead anyway?"

What do you think would happen if you had a low battery, put it away for
a few days, and turned it back on? The answer is "nothing."

Upon recharging the battery, you'd have to resync to get get any data
back on the unit.

With non-volatile memory, it'd be right there.

Notan

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On 4 Aug 2005 15:26:25 -0700, pailface88@yahoo.com wrote:

>What is the reason for using NON-VOLATILE, FLASH MEMORY on the new Palm
>Tungstens?

* It allows the battery to last longer because the battery doesn't
have to constantly feed it.
* When the battery does run out of juice, the non-volatile memory will
not forget your data, unlike its volatile counterpart.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

It is alleged that AaronJ claimed:

; >I always keep my TE backed up to an SD card
; >which is of course non-volatile.
;
; Yes that will work as well. But it's not passive and if you happen to forget...

I can't forget. My backup program is set to run automatically every
day just after midnight.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"Zathras... something I don't understand. You said you followed The
One, but The One you pointed to was -" "Was Delenn. Yes Zathras knew.
Zathras is oldest living caretaker of Great Machine. 110 years old.
Zathras has studied the Great Machine. Knows things, even Draal does
not know yet." (Amb. Sinclair and Zathras, B5 "War Without End Pt. 2" )

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

It is alleged that AaronJ claimed:

; Jeffrey Kaplan <cspp@gordol.org> wrote:
;
; >It is alleged that AaronJ claimed:
; >
; >; >I always keep my TE backed up to an SD card
; >; >which is of course non-volatile.
; >;
; >; Yes that will work as well. But it's not passive and if you happen to forget...
; >
; >I can't forget. My backup program is set to run automatically every
; >day just after midnight.
;
; Your backup program probably won't run too good on a dead battery,
; whereas the TE2's will...

Dead battery == nothing runs. Besides, I have a Treo 650 now, I've got
non-volatile memory, too.

Three weeks after purchase, Palm tech support said I had a hardware
problem (crashes) and to exchange it with the vendor. Pop out the SD
and SIM, pop them into the new one and select "restore device" in
BackupMan, and I walk out with all my info ready to go again.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"Well in that case we're all going to die horrible, painful, lingering
deaths." "Thank you I feel so much better." (Cmdr. Ivanova and Capt.
Sheridan, B5 "Matters Of Honor" )

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

It is alleged that AaronJ claimed:

; Jeffrey Kaplan <cspp@gordol.org> wrote:
;
; >It is alleged that AaronJ claimed:
;
; >; Your backup program probably won't run too good on a dead battery,
; >; whereas the TE2's will...
; >
; >Dead battery == nothing runs.
;
; I think you got the point though. Your battery dies one hour before midnight and
; you've lost a days worth of work with your once a day automatic midnight backup.
; The TE2 with flash has lost nothing. But I agree that the backup aspect of flash

And you snipped the rest of that line where I said that I've got a
flash-based Palm, too.

; memory is not as big a deal as the advertisements would have you believe. I mean
; most people are alert enough to keep their battery charged. And the ones who
; aren't or can't will have be having enough problems in other areas of life that
; it won't matter anyway...

I can see someone running it down and not being able to recharge it in
time. After nearly two years of a low-res device, which was after a
few years of Sony HiRes, I forgot how +nice+ the 320x320 display was. I
find I'm playing solitaires on my Treo when I'm bored, plus the phone
being on, and sometimes I neglect to turn off the BT. If I have an
alert set to go off early in the morning, I leave my Treo by my bedside
at night, not plugged into the charger in my home office. This
morning, it was showing about 40% charge when I got up. Yeah, "plenty
of charge, it'll last until I plug it in." But if I can get it down by
60% in one day with no more than medium usage, how much will an actual
power user cause it to drop?

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"You can start by helping me understand the precise nature of conflict
between the two sides that you've set up." "Green." "Purple." (Cmdr.
Ivanova, Purple and Green Drazi leaders, B5 "The Geometry Of Shadows" )

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

It is alleged that AaronJ claimed:

; Jeffrey Kaplan <cspp@gordol.org> wrote:
;
; >you snipped the rest of that line where I said that I've got a
; >flash-based Palm, too.
;
; Whether you own a flash based Palm or not had absolutely nothing to do with the
; discussion we were having about the respective benefits of automatic (software)
; vs passive (flash) backup systems. I always edit out OP verbiage that I'm not
; commenting on. I wish everybody did.

It looked like you were commenting to me specifically.

; >I can see someone running it down and not being able to recharge it in time.
; Another common Palm user complaint. The solution would be a snap in type
; replacement battery. With the old Palms (using volatile RAM) the additional

Some do. Maybe not the model you have, though. One of the differences
between the Treo 600 and 650 is the easily user-replaceable battery.
Naturally, it does take a Palm specific battery that costs over $30,
but it is there...

; In most Palms the screen is the big power waster. I run my Zire 72 screen at 10%
; (vs 25% at the low stop) and gain an extra 2 hours ebook reading. I run the

The Treo 650 with the screen at half brightness is the same as my
previous Kyocera 7135 at full brightness. I generally keep it with the
brightness slider somewhere around 25~33% bright. This only effects
the screen, though, not the backlighting in the keypad.

; processor at 26M (instead of 312M) and only gain a lousy half hour. When screen
; technology improves us power users will rejoice indeed. And maybe in the
; meantime, Palm, could you please make us a PDA with a snap in battery...

Some do. User feedback is, I believe, the main reason why the 650 got
a replaceable battery.

The one thing I do miss from my first Palm, the venerable IIIx, is the
spring-loaded sliding cover for the sync port. It protected the
contacts from pocket debris.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"This is a possible future Commander, and it is my hope that you may
yet avoid it." (Lady Ladira, B5 "Signs and Portents" )

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Zombie Elvis wrote:

> It was a time of great turmoil. The strong preyed on the weak, dogs
> and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness:
> pailface88@yahoo.com wrote in
> <1123194385.304659.323470@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:
>
>> What is the reason for using NON-VOLATILE, FLASH MEMORY on the new Palm
>> Tungstens? I have been using a TE for a couple years and non-volatile
>> memory would have never done me any good. The TE shuts down before the
>> battery goes dead anyway. I always keep my TE backed up to an SD card
>> which is of course non-volatile.
>
> Not everyone has the discipline to keep their Palm backed up and
> synced to their desktop.

There's another issue--if an alarm triggers and anything (like the lining of
your pocket or the lining of your case) is touching the screen the machine
will stay powered on until it is completely drained. When it took a week
to drain this wasn't so bad, but some modern machines can drain overnight.

The _right_ fix for that would be to let the thing turn off if it hasn't
been responded to in a reasonable time--if I'm sitting there with my stylus
on the screen and an alarm triggers I'm not going to wait 12 hours to
respond unless I'm _dead_, but Palm doesn't seem to be interested in doing
that.

This isn't a matter of "discipline". If one is home every night then
charging every night is fine. If one doesn't always know where one is
going to be sleeping on a given night (I've spent more than one night on
three chairs pulled together in a datacenter waiting for some process to
complete for example) then it's less of an option.

> They want to be able use it and throw it into
> a desk drawer every night until the battery is dead, recharging only
> when the battery dies -- these people are used to doing the same thing
> with their cellphones. NVFS was created for these people.

This was how the original, non-rechargeable Palms were used.

> My TE died on me a couple of times. If the TE had NVFS, I could have
> just recharged it without having to do anything to restore it from
> backup.
>>
>> I had always thought that non-volatile RAM was slower and therefore
>> this would seem to make it less desirable.
>
> But as Palm hardware becomes faster, this is not a problem. For
> example, it took my Tungsten E as much as ten seconds to open up
> certain web pages using AvantGo. My LifeDrive on the other hand opens
> the same pages in three seconds.
>>
>> I have been thinking about getting a new TE2 or perhaps a T5 but I
>> can't find enough advantage to justify it unless I am missing
>> something. I don't have any other bluetooth devices, computer included,
>> nor do I have any use for Wi-Fi.
>>
> Even without using Bluetooth, the TE2 still has a faster processor
> than the TE and should be noticeably faster if you upgrade. The T5 had
> some problems with sluggishness but recent updates from Palm have
> squashed these problems and it should be much faster than the TE.
>
> --
> Roberto Castillo
> robertocastillo@ameritech.net
> http://www.freewebs.com/robertocastillo/

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)