Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

HD video editing on integrated i7 graphics?

Last response: in Laptops & Notebooks
Share
April 26, 2012 9:50:42 AM

Hi I wonder is it really worth me shelling out extra for the dedicated graphics and how would this effect performance?
I am looking at the HP elite book range as they are perfect for my mobile audio recording as they have fire wire and low latency.
I am probably going to put a secondary drive in the DVD bay to get rid of any bottle necking on the hard disk data transfer whilst editing in CS5 Premier.
So solely based on the graphics limitation of the Intel HD 3000 graphics would they be able to handle a large video editing project? I heard video editing is more cpu intensive than graphics in which case I should be ok with the i7 second generation dual core processor...
a c 572 D Laptop
April 26, 2012 12:05:58 PM

Hello disease8;

You're probably be OK without a dedicated graphics card. Depending on the software you use it might, or might not, lean on the GPU to assist in editing. You should be able to find out about that from the software forum of your program.

That HD 3000 graphics IGP on the i7s is roughly equal to a dedicated Radeon HD 5450 or Geforce 410M.

3rd Gen Core i CPUs go on sale, probably inside a week with a nice boost in GPU performance.
I wouldn't be surprised if the EliteBook range starts carrying that option right away.

Intel HD Graphics 3000 review
Intel HD Graphics 4000 review

Related resources
April 26, 2012 12:52:26 PM

Cool many thanks for the reply. I am looking at ADK pro laptops at the moment, they come with the GTX range which obviously is much better. I think CS5 from adobe make special use of those Nvidia GPU's...
http://www.adkproaudio.com/gear.asp
a c 572 D Laptop
April 26, 2012 12:56:32 PM

I believe CS5 can make use of any GPU, the integrated ones included.
a c 572 D Laptop
April 26, 2012 12:58:36 PM

Those are looking pretty expensive.
If you find the specs you like we can find you an alternate source with better prices, for comparison.
a c 572 D Laptop
April 26, 2012 1:12:23 PM

It looks like Nvidia is still the best option for Cuda GPGPU acceleration right now.
There are still some questions about the depth of Intel's support for OpenGL drivers for it's IGP GPUs.
a b D Laptop
April 26, 2012 1:51:27 PM

Yo!
If you troll arround the CS5 forums (and keep in mind that CS6 comes out very soon) you will find that GPU support is limited for display purposes. Meaning that GPUs only eat the performance hit of displaying the content on the screen, but not the rendering time.

The obvious exception to this is if you have a CUDA card such as the GTX570, 580, or a quadro card via their Mercury Playback Engine. And even then only specific transitions/filters/effects are accelerated, while most things are not.

Also keep in mind that they changed the CUDA cores and funcionality on the 680, and I have yet to see any rumors confirming that the 680 works fine with MPE, because in all workload benchmarks the 570 kicks the 680's ass... which is just wierd.

Lastly, there is rumor that Adobe is beginning to move towards a gpgpu engline more like OpenCL, which would make the new AMD 7000 cards a great low(er) cost option. But again, this is rumor, and I have no idea of this will come with CS6, or if it will be later down the road.


In short, with Adobe Premiere, you either stick with onboard graphics for display purposes, or you get the biggest card you can afford. But all the cards in the middle will not really make much difference.
a b D Laptop
April 26, 2012 1:55:02 PM

oh, also keep in mind that HD4000 will be out soon with IB based laptops, which is a doubbling (or better) in performance over HD3000.
It will not help with Premiere much, but it will help with Photoshop, Aftereffects, and other programs.
April 26, 2012 3:47:52 PM

WR2 said:
Those are looking pretty expensive.
If you find the specs you like we can find you an alternate source with better prices, for comparison.



Hi thank you. These laptops are expensive because they are built from the ground up for audio production giving them a very low latency and enabling me to record many channels without glitches..
a c 572 D Laptop
April 26, 2012 3:50:38 PM

They use the exact same parts that less expensive options do.
a b D Laptop
April 26, 2012 3:55:25 PM

You can easily do 8+ channel audio recording on the lowest end i3 CPUs.
My Atom Netbook can do 4 channels with no problem. Most 'production' computer companies are simply expensive with no added benefit.
a b D Laptop
April 26, 2012 4:01:50 PM

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/tascam-us-2000...
If you can do 16 channel 96khz audio with low latency over USB2 (~23MB/s) then how much processing power do you think you need to record such throughput? The only advantage over an i3 would be for the editing and exporting of audio, not to reccord it in real time (2ms or less).
a c 572 D Laptop
April 26, 2012 4:05:10 PM

That ADK 7600 IVB model notebook on ADK's site is the same as the Sager NP6175 / Clevo W170ER on the XoticPC website. Identical, and it looks like XoticPC has higher performance options that ADK doesn't offer.
DDR3 1866MHz vs DDR3 1600MHz RAM, for example.

It looks to me that all those Pro Audio hardware options are external to the notebook. Things you could pick up where ever the prices are lowest.
April 26, 2012 4:31:21 PM

Yeah but they dont have TI firewire chipset or firewire at all...
a c 572 D Laptop
April 26, 2012 6:33:33 PM

ADK 7600 IVB has no firewire.
What model are you look at that does?
a c 572 D Laptop
April 26, 2012 6:52:07 PM

Ok, Only in the $2900 9000X Sandy Bridge E model it looks like. Available Mid-May.

On the XoticPC website - also Available in Mid-May SAGER NP9270/Clevo P270WM Sandy Bridge E notebook - base price $2099.
TI firewire chipset Firewire-800 (TI XIO2221ZAY)




April 26, 2012 6:58:14 PM

only the laptop that isnt available yet and cost $2900 without an OS has firewire 800 that they claim is so amazing. for that price build a desktop with an add in firewire card based on the TI firewire 800 chipset. it will be cheaper, perform better, have more interface options by an order of magnitude, have the ability to have 20+TB of storage with the right configuration and you can add more hard drives, interface cards or monitors as you see fit. those laptops literally offer nothing you cant put together off newegg. you can get the same performance for a fraction of the cost or for the same price get a system that is significantly more functional and future proof. seems like a no brainer to me.
a c 572 D Laptop
April 26, 2012 7:17:56 PM

The ADK 9000X is a house-branded Sager NP9270 / Clevo P270WM bare bones chassis.

Here is a complete spec of the Sager NP9270
Of interest to you:
Audio System: Built-in High Definition Sound System
S/PDIF Digital output / 1 Built-in Microphone / 5 Built-in Speakers / 1 Built-in Sub Woofer / THX® TruStudio Pro™ /External 7.1CH audio output supported by headphone, microphone and Line-in jacks

I/O Ports: 1 HDMI 1.4a output Port / 1 DVI-I output Port (single link) / 1 Display Port 1.1 / 2 USB 3.0 Ports / 2 USB 2.0 Ports / 1 eSATA Port (powered USB 3.0 (AC/DC) combo) / 1 IEEE-1394b Fire Wire / 1 RJ-45 LAN (10/100/1000Mbps) / 1 Headphone Jack / 1 Microphone Jack / 1 Line-in Jack / 1 S/PDIF output Jack
April 27, 2012 8:29:57 AM

guys you are all wrong. there are built from the ground up for audio production. They dont have a sub woofer. They are very quiet and cool clevo's are not. They have TI chipset, clevo's do not.

Getting back to the actual subject of the thread!

So what you are saying is it doesn't matter if it has integrated gpu its the processor. In which case nearly ANY computer with a good processor (i5/i7) will be sufficient if it does not have any bottle necking on the hard disk?
April 27, 2012 9:24:26 AM

ewood said:
only the laptop that isnt available yet and cost $2900 without an OS has firewire 800 that they claim is so amazing. for that price build a desktop with an add in firewire card based on the TI firewire 800 chipset. it will be cheaper, perform better, have more interface options by an order of magnitude, have the ability to have 20+TB of storage with the right configuration and you can add more hard drives, interface cards or monitors as you see fit. those laptops literally offer nothing you cant put together off newegg. you can get the same performance for a fraction of the cost or for the same price get a system that is significantly more functional and future proof. seems like a no brainer to me.



Right having a look I can see what you mean. But I would still be worried that these Clevo ones are not configured exactly like the ADK ones with the TI chipset and everything. Also how quiet and cool are they?
And I live in the UK, could they chip it over here?
I would be worried that they wouldnt have decent latency or be fine tuned for audio..

a b D Laptop
April 27, 2012 9:53:25 AM

M-Audio has USB audio solutions that work with any computer.

Video editing:
You are likely going to be limited by either the CPU or the amount of RAM. It varies a lot depending on what you are doing, especially the size of the video.

The graphics portion really doesn't matter unless you find software that supports it properly AND it is faster than your CPU can perform by itself.

You may wish to investigate RAM and CPU usage (especially RAM) for CS5.

2nd hard drive:
I'm not certain this would be of any use to you. The video is loaded and worked on in RAM. If RAM is too low it will thrash back to the hard drive, but why have two drives?
April 27, 2012 9:56:45 AM

CaedenV said:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/tascam-us-2000...
If you can do 16 channel 96khz audio with low latency over USB2 (~23MB/s) then how much processing power do you think you need to record such throughput? The only advantage over an i3 would be for the editing and exporting of audio, not to reccord it in real time (2ms or less).



Its not the processing power its about the chipsets and dpc latency, slient running laptop...etc
April 27, 2012 9:57:24 AM

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/518924-i...

even if they have firewire it wont be TI and wont work.
most off the shelf laptops wont work for audio even by adding a TI based Express card.
while there are a few (very few) exceptions to this, you could litterally buy 50 laptops and still not find a working one for firewire.

USB has a better chance but still can suffer from the same issues

Scott
ADK
a b D Laptop
April 27, 2012 9:58:13 AM

http://www.streaminglearningcenter.com/articles/ram-req...

This is a pretty extreme test and going from 12GB to 6GB provided minor slowdowns.

You can compare your needs with these tests as I don't know your requirements. RAM isn't too expensive so maybe 8GB isn't out of the question but definitely have at least 4GB (pretty standard anyway).
April 27, 2012 9:59:30 AM

photonboy said:
M-Audio has USB audio solutions that work with any computer.

Video editing:
You are likely going to be limited by either the CPU or the amount of RAM. It varies a lot depending on what you are doing, especially the size of the video.

The graphics portion really doesn't matter unless you find software that supports it properly AND it is faster than your CPU can perform by itself.

You may wish to investigate RAM and CPU usage (especially RAM) for CS5.

2nd hard drive:
I'm not certain this would be of any use to you. The video is loaded and worked on in RAM. If RAM is too low it will thrash back to the hard drive, but why have two drives?


You HAVE to have at least two hard disks for HD video editing as it will bottle neck on one and slow everything down. I had this problem with my desktop, I got a second hard disk and faster cpu and now it works fine..

CaedenV helped me a lot with my desktop I trust his opinion he obviously knows what he is talking about! :-)
April 27, 2012 10:31:33 AM

WR2 said:
Ok, Only in the $2900 9000X Sandy Bridge E model it looks like. Available Mid-May.

On the XoticPC website - also Available in Mid-May SAGER NP9270/Clevo P270WM Sandy Bridge E notebook - base price $2099.
TI firewire chipset Firewire-800 (TI XIO2221ZAY)



Cool it says its $2,179.00 on the website, if it costs an extra £200 to have it built specifically for audio I would rather save the headache and pay extra if indeed they are different from the stock Sager's...
http://www.sagernotebook.com/index.php?page=product_cus...
April 27, 2012 10:32:30 AM

Theses are reasons why it needs to be built for audio:
1) if there is firewire it wont be TI and chances of it working are extremely thin. Usually (Ricoh, jmicon)

2) most laptops dont have firewire, so the only option is adding an Express card with TI chipset.
however this rarely works. it has a lot to do with how the bios is written, and how Vendor ID is dealt with.
""Also known as a VID, a vendor ID is a unique number assigned to each computer hardware device that helps a computer identify the hardware being installed in the computer. Most vendor IDs start with 0x, for example, 0x9710 or 9710 is an example of a Vendor ID. Other Vendor IDs may be the first few letters of the company's name or an abbreviation. ""

this is one of the reasons the RME works better than a stock Fireiwre express card. it has a specific vendor ID where most firewire cards are read as non specific.
they still dont work in at least 50% of laptops however

3)designed for long battery life. again this is the cry of the masses give us long battery life, give us "green", give us really good wifi.
so ther are a good deal of things in the bios that are designed to SAVE power not use it. and put power where it should not (wifi)
thus making the Express slot under volted most of the time. (vendor ID tells the bios to up the voltage for the RME)

the Firewire port (if ther is one) can also suffer from this or suffer from sleep states whisch is my next statement.

4) C-States (various states of reduced power to the Processor) aka sleep states.
see this thread
C1E, C3, C6, EIST, Speedstep, Turbo Boost, Core parking

with the laptop bios you do not have the options of turning these off (our laptops have custom bios' wrote with these off and other things)

5)DPC latency. you can download a program called DPC latency checker..
this never use to be an issue (well at least not as previlent as it is now) you can be an issue with Desktops as well.
April 27, 2012 11:00:33 AM

photonboy said:
http://www.streaminglearningcenter.com/articles/ram-req...

This is a pretty extreme test and going from 12GB to 6GB provided minor slowdowns.

You can compare your needs with these tests as I don't know your requirements. RAM isn't too expensive so maybe 8GB isn't out of the question but definitely have at least 4GB (pretty standard anyway).


Thank you I will need 8gig at least more likely 16gb.. Thats why its so restricting, I have to choose a workstation, pro audio laptop or any other that is built with performance in mind. Usually the gaming laptops are too loud and hot and are not geared for audio but graphics and power...
April 27, 2012 11:33:45 AM

I mean these are very tempting:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HP-EliteBook-2540p-Laptop-Cor...

They are pretty cheap and if the integrated graphics dont matter I would be very tempted. I just need to confirm that they can take a second graphics card, they can have enough ram and also that the dpc latency and firewire are good enough for audio! Its so annoying its almost worth just shelling out for a power house that will definitely work!
April 27, 2012 11:52:41 AM

meant second hard disk in last post..
a c 572 D Laptop
April 27, 2012 12:24:42 PM

disease8 said:
Theses are reasons why it needs to be built for audio:
1) if there is firewire it wont be TI and chances of it working are extremely thin. Usually (Ricoh, jmicon)
ADK does not 'build' the notebook. They only use the parts that are already installed on the SAGER NP9270/Clevo P270WM bare bones notebook they call the ADK 9000.

The reason the ADK 9000 has the 'TI firewire chipset Firewire-800' is because ALL SAGER NP9270/Clevo P270WM notebooks have it. Anywhere you find a notebook boutique builder using a SAGER NP9270/Clevo P270WM it will have TI XIO2221ZAY Firewire 800 chip on the motherboard.
a c 572 D Laptop
April 27, 2012 12:59:27 PM

disease8 said:
guys you are all wrong. there are built from the ground up for audio production. They dont have a sub woofer. They are very quiet and cool clevo's are not. They have TI chipset, clevo's do not.

Getting back to the actual subject of the thread!
This is the subject of the thread.
ADK does not build from the ground up. The use a barebones chassis - the SAGER NP9270/Clevo P270WM.
ADK 9000 most certainly is the SAGER NP9270/Clevo P270WM.
SAGER NP9270/Clevo P270WM does have the Ti firewire chip.

Seriously, we're not wrong on this.
a c 572 D Laptop
April 27, 2012 1:11:23 PM

disease8 said:
And I live in the UK, could they chip it over here?
Yes they could. Most of the better boutique builders will ship to the EuroZone.
XoticPC, Origin, Advent
From Canada: MythLogic & ReflexNotebook
April 27, 2012 2:20:14 PM

WR2 said:
This is the subject of the thread.
ADK does not build from the ground up. The use a barebones chassis - the SAGER NP9270/Clevo P270WM.
ADK 9000 most certainly is the SAGER NP9270/Clevo P270WM.
SAGER NP9270/Clevo P270WM does have the Ti firewire chip.

Seriously, we're not wrong on this.



Sorry. I agree that they are the asme chassis. I dont mean to argue you are right definitely. But I am sure that a lot of tuning and work goes on in a customised bios as the guy from ADK states in the quotues I put up.. And its only a little more to get it from ADK....

I am worried about getting something shipped all the way from the states and having to return it when it does not work will cost the money I could have spent to get one that is tuned for audio...

a c 572 D Laptop
April 27, 2012 2:38:53 PM

How much Firewire hardware are we talking about here?
It won't hurt to look at the cost of getting USB 3.0 replacement audio equipment and the cost of nicely equipped USB 3.0 notebook - compared to getting that top of the line FireWire notebook.

I'm seriously suspicious that ADK is blowing smoke over the whole 'custom tuning' thing. The option & ability to tune your desktop and tuning a notebook are pretty much the same. What ADK is suggesting they do, I'm almost certain, is to configure the existing BIOS much the same way you tuned your desktop.
The "writing a custom BIOS" is almost certainly not true.
a c 572 D Laptop
April 27, 2012 2:50:24 PM

disease8 said:
They dont have a sub woofer. They are very quiet and cool clevo's are not. They have TI chipset, clevo's do not.
This is the kind of thing that worries me most. If they are telling you stuff like this - I'm seriously concerned they are mis-representing other facts and capabilities of their offering.
If they were super-serious about doing what you mention that sets the ADK 9000 apart from other SAGER NP9270/Clevo P270WM notebooks they would not have that super-gaming graphics card, the GTX 675 (aka GTX 580M), included in their package.
They would be offering the higher bandwidth lower latency premium RAM as well. DDR3 1333 CAS 9 is bog-standard RAM.
April 27, 2012 3:08:33 PM

Sorry it might have been my mistake that the original on didnt have TI chipset or a sub woofer I just didnt see it listed in the specifications..

THanks for the reply I will look into this more but also I know that the ADK guys are very well respected on all the forums, they also are very open and communicative on the forums that they frequent. I will email them and find out what they say they do that is different to the original clevo/sager. I suspect they will just tell me what I listed above about the custome bios...etc...

Usb 3 does not really give any advantage for audio and there are no usb 3 audio devices. Firewire is still sufficient for loads of ins and outs, I already have a nice motu interface that is firewire so I just want to stick with that as I am very happy with it..
a c 572 D Laptop
April 27, 2012 3:16:05 PM

The nice thing about all those boutique builders (and ADK is one of them) is that you can talk to the owners and techs to get detailed info.

Once you've talked to ADK call one of the others and see if they can shed any light on what ADK really does.
April 27, 2012 4:25:42 PM

I have contacted ADK but they are taking a long time to respond. If yuo look on forums like Gearslutz or homerecording.com ADK are on those and bvery open and honest. i am sure they are not full of BS in saying they have custome bios and the list I put above... I will update this thread with my response. I wouldnt be suprised if scott from ADK is not on here already he might pick up on this thread! :-)

Thanks all of you for the help its really food for though! I am looking at the clevo/sager website now and also adk, i think it will probably be one of those two!

:love: 
a c 572 D Laptop
April 27, 2012 4:54:48 PM

You might ask for details on the motherboard manufacturer.
Those desktop CPUs (i7-3820) and desktop motherboard (X-79) chipsets used in notebook style chassis shouldn't be that different from other X-79 desktop full scale motherboards.

For a long (terrifyingly 123pages long) topic on the Sager NP9270 / Clevo P270WM look here:
**Official Sager NP9270 / Clevo P270WM Owners Lounge**
beyond the usual speculation and FUD there are some interesting details, including postings from several of the boutique builders (MyLogic, Malibal, PowerNotebooks, XoticPC, PC-Konsulten.se, Eurocom and others).
April 27, 2012 5:09:31 PM

lets get back to the original question

you should be okay. but i dont know your timeframe to purchase
i would wait on ivy bridge and see what the new prices are, if u can
!