Traded a 9800 Pro for a Geforce2 MX

kinney · Dec 6, 2003

I had my final problem with my 9800 Pro. Even though it is on Ebay for sale as we speak with 4 days to go... my 9800 had to piss me off one more final time.

Every time I would start any 3D app, such as CounterStrike. The computer would lockup.. the hard drive would start working quite a bit right before a lock and then it would happen. I ignored it and continued to use my PC for non-gaming uses (the majority of my time is spent that way anyway).
Before that I tried reinstalling the drivers, tried versions 3.7->3.9 again and no avail.
Finally it started crashing in windows, on boot. Coming up with a error report of a driver issue, but this only appeared once I put in the Geforce!!!! It wouldnt come up with the ATI in the system!
It was at that point that I took it out and put in a old Geforce2MX, loaded the latest drivers (52.16) and started a game of CS.

NO CRASHES!

I just have to say, it may not be as fast.. and its certainly a temporary solution.. as I have a Geforce3 at my g/f's house laying around.. and I'm ordering a 4200 as soon as the main 9800 sells but what a long and trying few months the 9800 has caused me.

I guess ATI just wasnt ready to accept me and I'm unfortunately not ready to accept them either. :frown:
But I'm not really that sad, I've confirmed my age old belief that ATI driver support sucks, regardless of the recent fanfare for them.

Just as a final archiving of the Radeon 9800 problems (not including this post of course)
<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=379488#379488" target="_new">Here</A>
<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=374098#374098" target="_new">Here</A>
And <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=374563#374563" target="_new">here again.</A>

I apologize to the Nvidia gods for turning my back on them.

I am scorned.

----
I just tell it like it is and some can't handle it. If your experience is different, well congratu-fukulation.
I’M NOT A ATI FANBOY, I’M NOT A NV FANBOY, I’M A STABILITY FANBOY

coylter · Dec 6, 2003

have you tried reformating :/

My own beast: Athlon 2700xp+ (oc: 3200xp+ with 200fsb) , Radeon 9800pro (oc: 410/370) , 512mb ddr400. SO MUCH faster than my last computer (pIII 550......)

coolsquirtle · Dec 6, 2003

tsk tsk tsk, look whos come crawling back

RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy
FX5700Ultra, the next Ti4200? seems so

coylter · Dec 6, 2003

You are a renegade

Ati and nvidia hate you now

YOUR ONLY choice is .......intel MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

My own beast: Athlon 2700xp+ (oc: 3200xp+ with 200fsb) , Radeon 9800pro (oc: 410/370) , 512mb ddr400. SO MUCH faster than my last computer (pIII 550......)

kinney · Dec 6, 2003

:frown: I know...

but didnt you spring for a 9600 yourself??
It was hard to resist for me, but I guess I was to eager to try the new ATIs. But Ive never had a overly positive experience with ATI in the past so I shouldve stuck to my instincts.. Oh well.
At least I'm not one of those guys who just cant help but own the fastest thing available, like the 9800 because then I'd kinda be stuck.

I'm just a stability fanboy.

----
I just tell it like it is and some can't handle it. If your experience is different, well congratu-fukulation.
I’M NOT A ATI FANBOY, I’M NOT A NV FANBOY, I’M A STABILITY FANBOY

kinney · Dec 6, 2003

No I didnt. I think it wouldve helped but eventually, if ATI has issues (as my many problem links show), they will come up again sometime..
But I'm an experienced user, i know about driver cleaner.. I generally know what I'm doing and I feel the cards shouldve been a wee bit more cooperative than they ended up being.

Proof is in the pudding, I put in a slow arse GF2MX and this is my first reboot with it in... I listened to my daily radio show online, played a game of CS.. a little Simpsons Hit and Run.. no problems and no format needed.

I even have FAST WRITES ON!

----
I just tell it like it is and some can't handle it. If your experience is different, well congratu-fukulation.
I’M NOT A ATI FANBOY, I’M NOT A NV FANBOY, I’M A STABILITY FANBOY

coolsquirtle · Dec 6, 2003

i have a 9600pro, but i f***ing hate it, i mean at least my Ti4200 could finish 3Dmarks 2k3 = ="

LONG LIVE NVIDIA!!!!

RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy
FX5700Ultra, the next Ti4200? seems so

GeneticWeapon · Dec 6, 2003

Is that why you hate it?...because you cant complete 3DMark?

9800 3DMark03 Score = 5,342
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=1666744" target="_new">http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=1666744</A>

coolsquirtle · Dec 6, 2003

yup! anyone wanna compare Aquamark 3 with me? i can finish that

RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy
FX5700Ultra, the next Ti4200? seems so

TheGreatGrapeApe · Dec 6, 2003

Sure little man, how does 30K sound? :tongue:

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

-NEW PIC IN THGC ALBUM-

TheGreatGrapeApe · Dec 6, 2003

I've put a ribbon on my post to acknowledge your loss.

LOL!

In the end it all comes down to CS. :lol:

Man that does suck for you.

I do disagree, but then again, I've had none of the problems you've had, just the one Fast Writes issue (which isn't just an ATI thing). But it comes down to personal experience.

I'm just curious, why not an FX5700 or 5950 level card, or are you bidding your time 'til the NV40 comes out?

You could always go to XGI. :tongue:

Oh well I'll trade a bunch of Kinneys and CoolS(s) for a single GW any day. HEhe, we win!

Better luck next Generation!
I mean that.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

-NEW PIC IN THGC ALBUM-

GeneticWeapon · Dec 6, 2003

Oh well I'll trade a bunch of Kinneys and CoolS(s) for a single GW any day. HEhe, we win!

9800 3DMark03 Score = 5,342
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=1666744" target="_new">http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=1666744</A>

GeneticWeapon · Dec 6, 2003

:tongue: Low ---> <A HREF="http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=810109170" target="_new">http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=810109170</A>

9800 3DMark03 Score = 5,342
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=1666744" target="_new">http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=1666744</A>

coolsquirtle · Dec 6, 2003

....... all you guys are making fun of me!

http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=406708423

I dont think this is too bad

I'm gonna try push my Graphic Card farther........

RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy
FX5700Ultra, the next Ti4200? seems so

kinney · Dec 6, 2003

You'd trade me and coolsq for one GW?? Wow, dont be too liberal with the love around here!

For the record... it didnt come down to CS, just my example...
a better way to put it would be, I bought a 9800 and it couldnt even play CS.

On your comment on the FX series.. I'm just not sold on them.
I think I'll hold off on another DX9 card until good DX9 games are out, benchmarks are out (the real ones).. and things are a little more settled.
I stand firm in my opinion that DX9 is going to be a big era.. but I dont see the point in blowing money on a card that has no promise of performing well in those games that dont exist yet.
And thats the bottom line. A 9800/FX will do fine in D3/HL2 I'm sure, but who knows what the NV40/R400 will bring as far as speed is concerned.

The 5700 is one of those cards, if I got one of those ($200 US), IMO I might as well get the 5900($200US). I havent directly compared the 5900NU vs the 5700U but I think the NU 5900 is a decent value.

But my whole DX9 thing comes into play there also.

I dont hate ATI, it was my decision. But like you said, theres so many different hardware combos out there.. I just seem to keep getting the non-ATI compliant ones!! LOL

I just cant promote something Ive had bad experience with myself. I think that makes total sense.
One of the big problems with online forums is that you cant trust someone, and with this forum.. we all generally know who each other is, where they've been hardware wise, get a feel for their technical prowess and can generally take each others opinions seriously.
At least thats how I feel.
And why a post here with 2 replies means alot more than a post at Anandtech with 50replies from blatant fanboys.. or worse, ones that you dont even know are fanboys but conceal it(!)

But I am waiting for the NV40. I probably wont go ATI for a while.. once they start releasing drivers and forums arent overrun with ppl complaining (there cant be THAT many fanboys! esp all with the same ideas...), then I will give them another shot. Their technical lead means nothing to me anymore, I like the near driver perfection instead.

Thank you for your kind words.

----
I just tell it like it is and some can't handle it. If your experience is different, well congratu-fukulation.
I’M NOT A ATI FANBOY, I’M NOT A NV FANBOY, I’M A STABILITY FANBOYEdited by kinney on 12/06/03 00:17 AM.

kinney · Dec 6, 2003

Yes, NV is the way.

I'm not a champion for the FX, so I'm going to a GF4 for now.

Until the NV40, the day of reckoning.

----
I just tell it like it is and some can't handle it. If your experience is different, well congratu-fukulation.
I’M NOT A ATI FANBOY, I’M NOT A NV FANBOY, I’M A STABILITY FANBOY

TheGreatGrapeApe · Dec 6, 2003

Surprisingly only 2K seperate us.

Maybe I should try harder.

BTW to all the rest <A HREF="http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=406708423" target="_new">CS's Score made clicky</A>, and to think all that on a P42.6 no less. No wonder you're mad at your R9600P. :tongue: ]

Sorry for commandeering your thread kinney.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

-NEW PIC IN THGC ALBUM-

GeneticWeapon · Dec 6, 2003

Oh damn, whats the .ns rating on CS's card?

9800 3DMark03 Score = 5,342
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=1666744" target="_new">http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=1666744</A>

TheGreatGrapeApe · Dec 6, 2003

For the record... it didnt come down to CS, just my example...

Oh yeah sure.

I know; but you know my feelings on that one. I seriously think that game requires 2 different rigs until they run smoothly under ATI or nV's improve their overall performance in other areas. But that a personal and admitedly jaded opinion on CS.

Yeah it's unfortunate, and it's a strange thing your experience, I have to say it's looking like a bit of bad luck, but bad luck with genuine 'reason' behind it. I still wouldn't paint the entire line, but that's me a Matrox Fanboi ('til the end... what it's over?... already?).
The more I read on both sides the more I'm certain everyone sucks at some aspect of their line/compatibility. Even Matrox has alot of issues to deal with. No one seems clean. I think the only one I haven't heard issues about is Intel's "Extreme Graphics" but perhaps that's because that is the rock standard starting point for ALL games. But maybe someone out there is having problems with those as well (other than the dismal FPS of course).

I really do hold alot of hope in the next generation, and like I've said for a long time, I look forward to them for SOooo many reasons. I also know that there are a hell of alot of people like yourself who are waiting for the next gen cards because of their experiences (and others because they wanna be king of the Bungholio hill [only applies to me vs GW]). I do hope that the NV40 offers you something better. But if it doesn't I will be forced of course to raz you just as much as is appropriate. What do you say a few days of taunting. :lol:

But don't get me wrong, should the nV40 rock, then I may give them a spin depending on ATI's response (or lack thereof). Personally I don't have allegiances, well other than my old one with Matrox which brought me to this era fairly neutral I'd say. Time will tell, but in the event of a tie, I will have to give my dollars to ATI for the sole reason that I have prefered their actions over the past year. I have to grant them that.

Needless to say, all the best in the new year.

Perhaps if you have an NV40 and I have an R42X then you may be able to join GW and my BungHoliomark-2K4 / reign-of-the-derriere games. Wait that sounds gross. How about just simply; Fry Fest! :evil:

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

-NEW PIC IN THGC ALBUM-

TheGreatGrapeApe · Dec 6, 2003

I think his ram was the Samsung 3.0ns kind or 3.3 maybe.

I do remember him originally talking about not being able to push the core or memory much. Based on his memory I'd think it was the 3.3ns kind based on the memory OC. I'd expect a little more out of the 3.0 Samsung.

But knowing that board it could be the infineon, entron tech, or hynix stuff. Then it's all up for grabs.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

-NEW PIC IN THGC ALBUM-

GeneticWeapon · Dec 6, 2003

Yea, my board has Infinion 3.0ns and wont go a hair over 630mhz, Infinion isnt great for overclocking thats for sure. I'ts kinda ironic that my 9500Fro had 3.0 Infinion also

Having 8 pipes and a 256bit memory bus helps alot though

I've taken my core from 324mhz to 430mhz without any lockups so far, but damn, I dont want to fry this card like I did my 9500pro.

9800 3DMark03 Score = 5,342
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=1666744" target="_new">http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=1666744</A>

TheGreatGrapeApe · Dec 6, 2003

Yeah man. I hear you on that. Better to enjoy the card in actual games for a long time than to have a dead champion. I pushed my card hard at the start simply for experimental purposes and because it was new and I thought it would be of good use to people to see the limits of the new design (still like the core design just wish they had perfected Low-k for the R9600P (imagine another 50-100mhz on my core!). However in spite of all that overclocking beginning, I know run it (almost daily [except when doing the CAT review]) @ 456.75/317.25 just to ensure long-term stability, and performance, especially since I will likely be giving/selling this to a friend, or plonking it in the video editing rig once I upgrade, so now use in actually frying it unless we are trying to 'learn' something (other than don't fry your card).

Memory is weird. The Hynix and Entron Tech 2.8ns memory should be slower than the 2.86ns Samsung, but almost every card I've seen reviewed, and heard speak of in the forums with the Samsung, beats those two by a good 5-10 mhz top end. Even Vmoding favours the Samsung memory. Still, I wouldn't mind strapping on some of that 2.2ns stuff and seeing just what this card could do with a core/mem match (let alone 500/400(800)).

The scary thing is all the talk of the memory on the R42X/NV40 boards. I've only seen cursory stuff so far, but I wonder, does that 1600mhz = 400mhzX4 or 800mhzX2 or is it the seemingly ridiculous idea of DDRI/II running @ 1600mhz(3200) Oie! They aren't saying much and quad pumped is supposed to be the next step on the way to GDDR3. Wonder how they would OC. If the early DDRII boards are any example, perhaps quite poorly.
1600mhz (no matter how it's achieved) of 256bit memory would really start to poke holes in the Res. charts and also may show true future exploits of more memory, the R42X/NV40 sure would be the cores for that if they did.

For all the build up, I think people are either going to be greatly dissapointed or mildly shocked (and some utterly amazed) by what we see in the beginning of '04. Time will tell as always, I just hope it's more of the former and less of the latter.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

-NEW PIC IN THGC ALBUM-

Crashman · Dec 6, 2003

LOL, you should get an FX5800 so you can continue having power problems like the ones you just described.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

coolsquirtle · Dec 6, 2003

sniff sniff

It's samsung ram @ 3.3ns

and two review i've seen the best stable o/c was 460/340 and i doubt i can push mine this far

but hey it can run anything i throw at @ smooth FPS

..... i think......

my friend's got a BBA, he doesn't know dipshit and overclocking and he's going around sayin I HAVE 2.86ns RAM!! and i donno how to o/c but I PWN U.

RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy
FX5700Ultra, the next Ti4200? seems so

kinney · Dec 6, 2003

I thought it was too, I'm not that naive.. we pretty much ruled that out in my first 'problem' link in this thread.
I have a great PSU, and I dont tax it at all. I dont do lights, I dont use more than 1 fan... I've ran tests on it, the lines are strong on it. Theres no dip on lockup on any lines when I check the log. Even funnier is that it comes up with a 'video driver error' on the XP error report.

You really should read all my links that I have in the first post.. and tell me if ATIs problems are all power related

----
I just tell it like it is and some can't handle it. If your experience is different, well congratu-fukulation.
I’M NOT A ATI FANBOY, I’M NOT A NV FANBOY, I’M A STABILITY FANBOY

Traded a 9800 Pro for a Geforce2 MX

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