TV OUT - nVidia FX5900 vs Ati 9800 Pro

hinter2 · Jan 11, 2004

If for you not only graphics speed matters, but you also need a high quality TV Out then this might interest you:

Ati 9800 Pro TV Out:

- Complex to set up
Dip switches on card have to be set up correctly

- TV will only show B&W picture (In some cases).
Catalyst Driver has compatibility problems with some TV´s. (In some cases this is due to incorrect dip switch settings on the card or wrong driver settigns - both of these cases are correctable by user - in other cases the PROBLEM CAN NOT BE FIXED)

- TV OUT Flexibility/Control is poor
When using multiple displays it is often useful to configure exactly how the TV display should behave
(Clone Mode, Horizontal or Vertical Stretch to TV, Dual Mode, TV resolution, Window Management)
Unfortunatly the catalyst driver does not offer much choice here.

nVidia FX5900 Ultra TV Out:

- Easy set up
No need to set dip switches (be sure to buy correct version though - PAL or NTSC - depending on your countries TV encoding)

- TV color quality is superb

- TV OUT Flexibility/Control is superb
The default settings are very good, but additionllly nVidia´s nView offers a million possibilities configuring how exactly the TV display should behave (Too many to list here)

CONCLUSION:
The result couldn´t be clearer:
Ati´s 9800 Pro TV OUT is (sorry) CRAP.
Whereas the nVidia FX5900 TV OUT is SUPERB.

So if you often use TV OUT dont bother with the Ati, get the nVidia. nVidia might cost a few bucks more, but is definatly worth the money.

(Tested cards were: Powercolor 9800 Pro & Asus V9950 Ultra)

petrolhead2003 · Jan 11, 2004

I'm waiting to see the rush of replies claiming that ATI does this best,that best etc.

Usually you get immediate responses.....

Where are they..............ooy....come back.......
..........................................
...........where are you hiding................

ecar016 · Jan 11, 2004

TV out using traditional methods is dead.......
with digital push the next generation cards will HDTV out!!!!!

no more setup

EC

 Quantum Computers! - very interesting

rain_king_uk · Jan 11, 2004

Okay so for the 0.001% of people who are only worried about TV out get the nVidia, the other 99.999% get the ATi card - works for me

GeneticWeapon · Jan 12, 2004

This is funny :lol:

My PC
<A HREF="http://server5.uploadit.org/files2/100104-GensPC.jpg" target="_new">http://server5.uploadit.org/files2/100104-GensPC.jpg</A>
<A HREF="http://server5.uploadit.org/files2/100104-pc lightup.jpg" target="_new">http://server5.uploadit.org/files2/100104-pc lightup.jpg</A>

TheGreatGrapeApe · Jan 12, 2004

nVidiots strike again.

Of course you missed adding MAtrox which pummels the ATI's (whose TV out quality is better than nV's) and is easier to set up than both.

Seriously your post is such weak pambulum I can't even work up the motivation to trash it properly.

Weak effort at trolling, even for an nVidiot.

Buy a Matrox card if TV-out is something you care about.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

GeneticWeapon · Jan 12, 2004

Seriously your post is such weak pambulum I can't even work up the motivation to trash it properly.

:lol:

My PC
<A HREF="http://server5.uploadit.org/files2/100104-GensPC.jpg" target="_new">http://server5.uploadit.org/files2/100104-GensPC.jpg</A>
<A HREF="http://server5.uploadit.org/files2/100104-pc lightup.jpg" target="_new">http://server5.uploadit.org/files2/100104-pc lightup.jpg</A>

coylter · Jan 12, 2004

The Nvidiot strike back

My own beast: Athlon 2700xp+ (oc: 3200xp+ with 200fsb) , Radeon 9800pro (oc: 410/370) , 512mb ddr400. SO MUCH faster than my last computer (pIII 550......)

KWPLunchbox · Jan 12, 2004

My Geforce3 TV out was decent, quality wise, but there were so few options in the nVidia drivers that I had to get Tvtool AND, PNY screwed something up and I couldn't get it to work the 1st 6 months I owned it until I flashed it with a nVidia reference bios. My new 9800Pro has everything I need (so far) built into the catalyst drivers. The text is also a little sharper than with the Nvidia card. ATi wins this round.

AMD XP 2500+ @ 3200+/200, A7N8X Dlx, 512mb PC3200 Corsair XMS DDR, ATi 9800Pro, Audigy Platinum, 2/5 TB of storage, TDK 48x CDRW, Lite-On 16x DVD, XP Pro SP1, and more neon than a ghetto sled

keke · Jan 12, 2004

When I decided to upgrade my Riva TNT 2 to a new card I listened to the 99 % of guys who said Radeon rules, get that one. I did. But what I should've done is listened to a guy I personally knew as he had bought Radeon too but returned it and got GF3 Ti 200.

What happened to me is that I bought Radeon 8500 (1½ years ago) and it was ok considering games and TV-out quality was good but it just didn't show the image through TV-out for everything I wanted. Mostly it liked only Media Player and certain file types, not all. Those that didn't show, showed only dark-violet screen in TV instead of the picture (movie) that could be seen on monitor. Same problem with some games.

After 6 months I just got fed up with it, sold it and got GF4 MX as I didn't have enough money for GF4 Ti. I also wanted either GF4 MX or Ti because those had something better compared to the TV-out quality of older GeForces. Perhaps the RAMDAC speed? Well, anyway, I could and still can get any picture that I can see on my monitor shown through TV-out without the dark-violet screen issue that I had with Radeon 8500. Also games ran actually faster than with Radeon 8500 since I had only 1,3 GHz Duron. Now that I have XP 2600+ Radeon 8500 might be faster for games.

I mentioned that games ran fine with Radeon 8500 but actually I had one problem in Counter-Strike. If I used the scope of scoped rifles the game would get into serious lag as if 200ms was added to the game. I don't know why this happened or how it can be possible but that's what happened and the problem was gone as soon as I switched to GF4 MX. This wasn't a big issue for me though since I didn't like the awp or scout anyway.

I bet the TV-out problem was with drivers but all the new drivers I tried, didn't help. Even the introductory of the new Catalyst drivers didn't fix the problem. I think I had the chance to try Catalyst 1.0 & 1.1 before selling the card.

My next upgrade will be GF FX 5700 Ultra as I've been really happy with the GF4 MX. I think I'd stick with this if newer games would support it but some don't and I'm really looking forward to a multiplayer game that doesn't support GF4 MX. (I'm not going to tell which cause then it would look like I was working for nvidia since the game is supported by nvidia.)

If I was 100% sure Ati had fixed the problem I might consider getting one of Ati's cards as they are a bit cheaper compared to performance with Nvidia cards. But then again I'd like to support Nvidia to bring some competition to the market because they're probably a smaller company since Ati has been around for ages. Nvidia is quite of a newcomer as they came to the picture around the introductory of GeForces (5 years ago?). Ati has been around for 10-20 years?

cleeve · Jan 12, 2004

You should clarify that this is only for HDTV out, and not regular tv-out.

No dip switches have to be set for regular TV out on Radeons. I've never heard of a B&W problem without HDTV either.

As for my two cents, I've had 3 Ati cards using TV out and they rocked. The one Nvidia card I've had with TV out overscanned strangely.

________________
Radeon 9500 PRO (hardmodded 9500, o/c 322/322)
AthlonXP 2600+ (o/c 2400+ w/143Mhz fsb)
3dMark03: 4,055

TheGreatGrapeApe · Jan 12, 2004

I think he's talking about the PAL/NTSC dip switches which are only on SOME cards, and don't need to be set unless you bought a card outside your region. And even then, WTF were you thinking? Just be hapy that there is the option, unlike other Hardware. Many of the cards have replaced the dip switches with the ability to set region in the software packages.

Oh well, once again more of an issue of user error/ignorance or just plan fanboism, rather than any real objective insignt to be gained from that post.

I've had no problem with mine other than I'm too picky to enjoy ANY TV-Out images compared to a nice desktop CRT.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

hinter2 · Jan 12, 2004

Pity you degrade your post with insults TheGreatGrapeApe.

Replying to your 1st post (the part where you actually said something):
"Of course you missed adding MAtrox...
...Buy a Matrox card if TV-out is something you care about."

If you are referring to the Matrox RT.X100(Extreme), this is an entirely different solution to getting a high-quality TV OUT.
I am sure you know this, but for those who dont know the Matrox:
The Matrox RT.X100(Extreme) is an add-on card to an existing display card.
"It's ideal for corporate communicators, event videographers, project studios, educational facilities, and digital filmmakers." (Matrox description)

In short:
If you need the TV OUT for professional purposes, then the Matrox solution might be the best. Even though it is very expensive since you need to buy 2 cards. (A primary display card + the Matrox)

If you just need the TV OUT for browsing the web, watching movies, putting cool winamp visuals on for a party or other similar stuff, then it is nice to have a good quality TV OUT in the primary video card (which the comparison of the FX5900 and 9800Pro is about)

Replying to your 2nd post:

The dip switches for PAL/NTSC selection are on the tested Powercolor 9800Pro. (And are set to NTSC by default, no matter where you buy the card)

The B&W problem does not occur with all TV´s. If you check the ATi FAQ on this subject you will find that you are lucky not to have this problem. Some people are less lucky and will not have their TV OUT working properly (ever).

To the last comment you made saying you dont care about TV OUT: then why are you posting in this thread??Edited by hinter2 on 01/12/04 01:46 PM.

TheGreatGrapeApe · Jan 12, 2004

Pity you degrade your thread and this forum with ignorance and blatant Fanboism.

If you are referring to the Matrox RT.X100(Extreme), this is an entirely different solution to getting a high-quality TV OUT.

No the RT-X10 and X100 are more about video IN and editing tools, not so much video out (they recommend tha Parhelia for that perhaps you should have read the description a little closer). For 'TV-out only', a regular Matrox card will do, and still beats both ATI and nVidia, and likely all other newcomers.

The Matrox graphics cards (G-series and the new P-series (including Parhelia) have LONG been THE best, bar none. I'd say even the old cards like my Mystique and my G200TV would beat both the ATI and nVidia cards.

In short:

In short.... You have NO Idea WTF you're talking about!

If you need the TV OUT for professional purposes, then the Matrox solution might be the best. Even though it is very expensive since you need to buy 2 cards. (A primary display card + the Matrox)

You don't need 2 cards, man you're ignorant. A G200/400/450/550 will all do TV out better than an nVidia card (and likely even an ATI card), and the P650 (less than $150 which is MUCH cheaper than either card YOU listed!), P750 and Parhelia will ll do TV out without an add-on card.

And now more than ever with HDTV it matters very little, but Matrox will give you the best 2D in that field as well. So for ALL types of TV Matrox will give you the best results with just 1 card!

If you just need the TV OUT for browsing the web, watching movies, putting cool winamp visuals on for a party or other similar stuff, then it is nice to have a good quality TV OUT in the primary video card (which the comparison of the FX5900 and XP9800Pro is about)

Nah, if you want to do the above MATROX is your BEST solution. The only thing they don't do as well as ATI/nVidia is the one thing YOU yourself omitted and that's gaming. Admitedly the ATI solution would be better for gaming, but if you want TV out there is ONE standard in the industry, and that's MATROX, and the faint 2nd place goes to one of ATI's oem-partners, COLORGRAPHICS. nVidia doesn't even have anything that touches them. And ALL of these products are based on their consumer/pro-sumer solutions.

A bit of advice for you; Don't poke your head out of the sand only to shout your fanboi ignorance at the top of your lungs with a lame post like this. Perhaps then people wouldn't have to make a visual spectacle of your debunking and make you feel 'insulted' at your own ignorance.

Thankfully I doubt anyone will take your BS seriously after all of this.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

LancerEvolution7 · Jan 12, 2004

What happened to me is that I bought Radeon 8500 (1?years ago) and it was ok considering games and TV-out quality was good but it just didn't show the image through TV-out for everything I wanted. Mostly it liked only Media Player and certain file types, not all. Those that didn't show, showed only dark-violet screen in TV instead of the picture (movie) that could be seen on monitor.

Just wondering, did you set the TV as the primary display or the secondary display?

cleeve · Jan 12, 2004

Bah. It's too easy to waste our time on the fanbois.

Now that the Nvidiots can non longer claim superiority based on being the best 3d solution, nitpicking obscure BS tv-out claims is the only thing they can do, I guess.

________________
Radeon 9500 PRO (hardmodded 9500, o/c 322/322)
AthlonXP 2600+ (o/c 2400+ w/143Mhz fsb)
3dMark03: 4,055

hinter2 · Jan 12, 2004

In reply to TheGreatGrapeApe:

"Pity you degrade your thread and this forum with ignorance and blatant Fanboism."
&
"A bit of advice for you; Don't poke your head out of the sand only to shout your fanboi ignorance at the top of your lungs with a lame post like this. Perhaps then people wouldn't have to make a visual spectacle of your debunking and make you feel 'insulted' at your own ignorance.

Thankfully I doubt anyone will take your BS seriously after all of this."

Quite often insults thrown at someone else hold true for the one screaming them out.

When you talked about the Matrox in your first post, you did not state which one you were talking about. The "In short" is true for the Matrox mentioned by me.

And
To state the obvious:
The comparison of the FX5900 & 9800Pro TV OUT is interesting because both cards have very good 3d capeabilities (with a SLIGHT disadvantage on the nVidia´s side). So if you want good 3d performance + a good TV OUT
than the posted information is interesting.

In case it interests you (it probably doesn´t) this comparison is not based on fantasy, but on an actual test of the 2 cards TV OUTs capeabilities.

It probably also does not interest you that I am working with computers since the good ole C64 came out, so no matter how much & loud you scream I know very well what I am talking about.

Just in case all your screaming and excitement is because part of an ATi card is criticised: Sorry a million times, but when I write about a comparison I can only write what the actual experiences were.

One last word, no matter what reply you post to this:
In a discussion not the one that screams the loudest and insults the most has the better arguments.

jihiggs · Jan 12, 2004

dip switches? i havent seen those on a video card in a LONG time. black and white by default? are you on crack? last i checked the only extra feature you have with nvidea (that goes for dual displays let alone tv out.) is the ability to have two separate desktops, instead of an extended one. im at a loss for words here, what are you trying to say? oh wait, your just a fan boy, i get it now.

wpdclan.com cs game server - 69.12.5.119:27015

TheGreatGrapeApe · Jan 12, 2004

Replying to your edit;

First, PC is far from a good guage of nV products, like we've said they would be in fact the lower end of any comparison. Truely the bottom of the barrel for your comparison.

Second, no not all card sdefault to NTSC, it's a common occurance from cheap-ass makers like PC, but many that are Euro (and PAL region) only are defaulted to PAL, and most of the good oem-partners do this too. Check enough forums and you'll find this is a common occurance. And really if you read your user manual (unless PC sucks there too) you will see that they specifically mention that you should check that in the trouble shooting, but obviously reading isn't a strong point for some.

To the last comment you made saying you dont care about TV OUT: then why are you posting in this thread??

Simply put, because you don't know $hit about the subject and someone has to expose your ignorance, I felt the need to expose this statement "So if you often use TV OUT dont bother with the Ati, get the nVidia. nVidia might cost a few bucks more, but is definatly worth the money." as complete and utter BS!

Anyone with even failing eyesight would see that under most conditions a Comp. CRT will give you better text and edge definition than any regular TV-out. And the only TV near my computer has an S-vid connector so there's no point in discussing the HDTV properties, in which case Matrox would still have better 2D resolution. I use TV-out on the VERY rare occasion nowadays (I used to use it alot (when I hade my Matrox and AIW cards), but I've found the only TRUE way to guage my final version of a DVD/VCD-burn is to actually play it. And I have enough experience with TV-out to know you're full of crap.

When it comes to TV-out in 2D, Matrox is the BEST choice, and nVidia isn't even a close second!

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

hinter2 · Jan 12, 2004

"dip switches? i havent seen those on a video card in a LONG time. black and white by default? are you on crack?"

as comment to

"The dip switches for PAL/NTSC selection are on the tested Powercolor 9800Pro. (And are set to NTSC by default, no matter where you buy the card)"

?????? (B&W as default ??? where is that stated ??? - reading seems to be difficult)

Its a true pitty this forum is destroyed by some fanatics.

For those who want to throw mud, please do so in another thread (maybe call it mudthrowing fun or similar - even though I am not sure if a hardware forum is the right place for a thread like this

FORTUNATLY SOME POSTS IN THIS THREAD ARE FACTUAL AND ON TOPIC.

For those wanting to post factual information on TV OUT issues this is a good thread to do so.

So if you have any experiences to post concerning the TV OUTs on the FX5900 or 9800Pro, may they be good or bad no matter... please do so!

To the fanatic mudslingers: You are not welcome here, Go to your mudslinging thread and have fun there!

Puhh... I am glad I am not employed in a kindergarden, they have to deal with this all the time

cleeve · Jan 12, 2004

To the fanatic mudslingers: You are not welcome here, Go to your mudslinging thread and have fun there!

Puhh... I am glad I am not employed in a kindergarden, they have to deal with this all the time

This is especially funny, because in the first sentence you denounce all forms of mudslinging, and in the following you compare someone you disagree with to a child, essentially mudslinging back.

I respectfully suggest that you are full of $hit. but then again, I don't pretend to have a problem with mudslinging.

Nor do I post blatantly one-sided fanboi garbage over and over again on this board. But that's just me.

________________
Radeon 9500 PRO (hardmodded 9500, o/c 322/322)
AthlonXP 2600+ (o/c 2400+ w/143Mhz fsb)
3dMark03: 4,055

hinter2 · Jan 12, 2004

Cleeve I am not sure what your last post has to do with TV OUT - nVidia FX5900 vs Ati 9800 Pro?
Your first post was on topic, this one is not.

cleeve · Jan 12, 2004

I'm sorry, I must have been understood.

What I was trying to say is that the FX5900 eats your momma's underpants.

Did I clear that up for you?

________________
Radeon 9500 PRO (hardmodded 9500, o/c 322/322)
AthlonXP 2600+ (o/c 2400+ w/143Mhz fsb)
3dMark03: 4,055

hinter2 · Jan 12, 2004

hehe, yes.
And I am glad you dont "post blatantly one-sided fanboi garbage over and over again on this board."

cleeve · Jan 12, 2004

Please point out where I have posted fanboi garbage.

I recommend a blend of Geforce and Radeon products based on price point and application. Check my previous posts. geforces and Radeons are BOTH excellent hardware and both have a place in today's graphics market.

You, on the other hand, have started 3 posts in the last hour that feebly try to slam Ati. I tell you what, if you want to act like a marketing lapdog for Nvidia, we'll treat you like one here at the Toms Hardware Graphics card forums.

And I will counterpoint you just for the sake of argument you brainwashed bufoon.

P.S. To be non-biased, the Radeon 9800XT also ate your momma's underpants.

________________
Radeon 9500 PRO (hardmodded 9500, o/c 322/322)
AthlonXP 2600+ (o/c 2400+ w/143Mhz fsb)
3dMark03: 4,055

TV OUT - nVidia FX5900 vs Ati 9800 Pro

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