Which graphic card to get?

jamisont · Jan 18, 2004

for NVIDIA, I found out BFG(asylum)'s cards are way cheaper than others.
Are there any reason why they are so cheaper than others?
I thought they were using cheaper memory or core to lower the cost but they werent.

BFG Asylum geforceFX 5600 ultra(400/800) @ 129$ (at fry's)
BFG geforceFX 5700 ultra (475/900) @ 149 (at fry's after 30$ rebate)
BFG geforceFX 5900 nu (450/850) @ 199$ (at compusa) or @169$ (thru internet)

for Radeon
ATI 9600xt @ 168$
ATI 9600 pro @ 145$
ATI 9700 pro @ 199$

so my question is.
BFG 5900 nu or ATI 9700 pro?
BFG 5600/5700 ultra or ATI 9600 pro/xt?

Crashman · Jan 18, 2004

I'd go with the 9700 Pro.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

Spitfire_x86 · Jan 18, 2004

Another vote for R9700 Pro

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cleeve · Jan 18, 2004

9700 PRO fer sure.

________________
Radeon 9500 PRO (hardmodded 9500, o/c 322/322)
AthlonXP 2600+ (o/c 2400+ w/143Mhz fsb)
3dMark03: 4,055

HardWareBoss · Jan 18, 2004

9700 Pro.

dhlucke · Jan 18, 2004

Yeah....if you could come in on Sunday....that would be great.

We need to talk about your TPS reports....

Yeah....

9700 Pro

_________________________________________
GOD BLESS AMERICA

mh909 · Jan 18, 2004

looks like someone has a bad case of the mondays

9700 pro

My Card: Geforce 7 Ti 6000, 1024 MB RAM, PCI-EX 32X, OC to 2000/4000, (1500 Watt power supply) 3dmark03: 47483
That's one awsomegra phics experience.

kinney · Jan 19, 2004

The cheapest 9700 Pro on Pricewatch currently is $208. The cheapest 5900NU is $176.

I would either spend the extra $50 for the 9800 Pro (worth the minor price increase in my opinion, I used to have two of them)... or stick with the Geforce 5900NU/XT/SE w/free copy of Call of Duty.
You dont get the Half Life2 coupon with 9700Pro or 9800 Pro.
Its just a little something that you should take into account in the prices.
With that in mind, (or even without considering), the 5900NUs are my pick.

Otherwise you are paying $200+ and if your spending that much, wait 3 months and spend that kind of price premium on the new stuff!
5900 is a great in-between choice if you must have a card now.

----
Yeah, thats right. I support the NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil.

kinney · Jan 19, 2004

I missed the second part of your question.. sorry.
As far as 9600/5700 I dont need any logical explanation there... its pretty clear cut, 5700.

----
Yeah, thats right. I support the NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil.

sirak · Jan 19, 2004

I wonder where you saw the 9700pro for $199...

TheGreatGrapeApe · Jan 19, 2004

That's a little deceptive (by PW not you).

It's NOT an FX5900non-ultra as we know it (FX5900), it's an FX5900SE/LX/etc. Which is not the same. The R9700 will outperform the FX5900SE in almost every modern game/test.

If you look at BFG's site the card Misidentified by BFG and thus PriceWatch as an FX5900 is actually an FX5900SE, look at <A HREF="http://www.bfgtech.com/5900_redux.html" target="_new">their description on their site</A>. Their link calls it the FX5900_Redux.

Infact there is no true FX5900 on the site that is below $200, even the $205 MSI, and $207 Albatron card are likely the SE stype models (the Albatron EPV [se type]) is listed for $209 on the same page, although granted it is a vivo version.

While the SE/XT/LX is not an Ultra version it is not what has become known as a non-ultra as it is well below that level of the FX5900. But in this case it seems to be a lack of research by PriceWatch, and a tricky naming scheme by BFG (like Powercolor/Gigacube).

They also have Radeon 9700PROs for the price of a true FX5900 ($208),if those are true FX5900s at that price even. And R9700s for about the same price as those FX5900SEs ($193)

But and FX5900SE is not the same as a regular FX5900.

Friggin' naming/numbering schemes!

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

kinney · Jan 19, 2004

Yes it is deceptive. But I wouldnt worry about it. The differences between the lines are slight.
They range from 400/700, 400/800, and 400/850 models.
If you can get the 800 or 850mhz ram, AWESOME. If you get the 700mhz model, merely GREAT.
They all have the same number of pipelines ect.

Just for the original posters information.. there is a 400/700 EVGA card on newegg for around 185 that is almost certain to hit 800mhz if that is important. [edit- with COD I must add]
Like the 9800NP to the Pro, the difference is relatively slight.
Just to keep things in perspective, a R9800Ps memory speed is 340Mhz (though performance may vary).
In that regard, 700mhz doesnt appear very low! What I'm saying to the purchaser is, dont worry about 100-150mhz when your 5900 is already at 700mhz for the mem. I wouldnt pay extra for it as you could probably just o/c most models.
The difference is small enough, I would save your money and get a 400/700 5900 with call of duty rather than get a 400/800 model without (and end up paying more).

Judging from the fact I'm the only one who suggested a 5900 in this thread... I have a feeling the heat might be coming on!

Theres my 2 frames worth

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Yeah, thats right. I support the NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil.Edited by kinney on 01/19/04 04:03 PM.

TheGreatGrapeApe · Jan 19, 2004

I think really, anything like the

FX5900SE/R9700/FX5900/R9700Pro/R9800/etc. will do very well by anyone, with only minor differences in most things, of course there will be some DX9 issues, but those games will be out by the time even better cards are out. If someone is looking for Numero Uno, then you have to wrestle with what that means, but for the average middle-level gamer any of those should do fine for now, even if I'd spend my money elsewhere.

My prefference would be in the order I listed (but from lesser to better for me), but they are all going to do OK for gaming in the near future and the main thing would be to research and figure out which one plays the games best for each individual or comes with the features one would want the most. COD doesn't interest me, but the Temp monitoring features do. But all of these are unatractive to me due to their power/heat characteristics.

But to each their own. The main thing is to be sure you're getting what you think you're supposed to. BFG appears to be the same as PC in that respect. Really wish the e-tailers were more thorough with their info.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

Edited by TheGreatGrapeApe on 01/19/04 03:53 PM.

kinney · Jan 20, 2004

Yes, its very very hard to get the hard details out of etailers. For instance confirming my current card would do 1024x768 tv output took 2 phone calls.. thats 2 calls too many and too many minutes on hold.
When ordering my 9800s I had a hard time confirming they were the 8 pipeline model (not SEs).
Everyone seems doing this these days.
The worst in my recent memory is the GF4MX that everyone b*tched about.
But that was very easy to figure out... if it was a GF4MX it was essentially a GF2. If you bought a GF4Ti you were getting the real thing.

Wasn't very hard in my opinion but probably fooled the multitudes who refused to take 2 minutes and read ANY review site before throwing their money away.
I myself actually sold many overpriced GF4MXs (around $180, remember this was back a few years also) to customers working in a local computer store knowing full well they were getting ripped off.
Hey, it got it off the shelf and I didnt have to look at it any longer.

The new tricks (I dont consider the GF4MX as a trick just for clarification), can be difficult to discern for any buyer due to the multitudes of cards and revisions put out.
GF-FX SE/XT/Ultra/NP/5600rev1/5600rev2 on the NV side, and equal tricky names on ATIs product line. I wont go into specifics on the ATI line because there seems to be soo many lower end cards (9000/9200/9100(?)/7200 ect. then all the variants of those) that I have little knowledge of and have lost track of in my mind.

Good thing about etailers is that you can get (almost all the time) near enough to the lowest prices on the net, fast shipping and full specs from Newegg.
Its nearly the only place I shop anymore.

BTW if you havent played through COD, its really really good. I never play games (some Simpsons Hit and Run and a bit of CS which you have chastised me for) and COD is the ONLY game I've played all the way through since probably Warcraft 2. Before WC2 it was probably the multitude of adventure games I grew up with...
those always were more fun than games these days.

How I miss ye Kings Quest.
It'd be hard for a modern gamer to go back and do it, but KQ3 was one of my most vivid gaming experiences ever (only tied with the original Heroes Quest/Quest for Glory).
It was released right in the middle of my childhood, about 1986 so that probably played a part in my fascination for that era.
I still name my MMORPG characters from KQ and QFG characters.

And interesting piece of history is that Sierra nearly hired all the guys from Id software before they got off the ground.
Carmack and Ken Williams did some fancy dining together but nothing ever came out of it.
Amazing to think that Ken signed off on Half Life (now Doom/Quakes main competitor) right before he sold Sierra.
And they both have completely different outlooks on games.
Carmack thinks storyline in a game is like a plot in a porno, its expected to be there but not important.
Sierra thinks quite the opposite (and I'd agree judging from the interest I've had in gaming past 8 years after Adventure games started to die).

Anyway, that was a rant.

----
Yeah, thats right. I support the NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil.

blackphoenix77 · Jan 20, 2004

I love office space

My Rig:
AthlonXP 2000+ 1.677ghz
GeForce Verto FX5200 128mb DDR
Maxtor 7200RPM 80GB, Stock 40gb
Kingston 384MB DDR
Cendyne 52x24x52 CD-RW
Lite-On 4x DVD-RW
Go EMachines...

TheGreatGrapeApe · Jan 20, 2004

Yeah buyer beware, best policy.

R9800SE 128bit versus 256 bit is also a pile of BS IMO.

As for COD, yeah it's just not my game, not right now. Prefer HALO, but that's personal taste. If I had more time for gaming, then I would likley add it to my currently limited number of games I keep going on an ongoing basis. The Demo for Savage has caught my eye recently, but I think I will get bored of that rather quickly, but it is kinda fun.

Funny I used to play KQ during my IBM PC days.

However the only game that has my ongoing attention (other than the EA NHL series) is Morrowind. I would LOVE to see a multiplayer game with that kind of engine, but I have a feeling that even the next gen rigs couldn't handle the requirements of that very well yet. And over quirky ADSL and Cable with fluctuating ping rates would probably drive people nuts.

Of well COD demo was ok, I heard the multiplayer is good, but just no time for something that hasn't displaced Morrowind as #1, I'm even beginning to regret Halo due to my lack of playing time.

As for Sierra, still like them, I've played alot of their games over time (still have their 3D pinball on my desktop for many of my rigs). I think I won't care much about plot/storyline in D]|[ (Doom kind of games are raw bloodletting IMO), but HL2 will be definitely more abou the story, and future add-on stories. I just hope that they both offer worthy multiplayer and future exndability.

Oh well once again looking off way too far into the distance.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

kinney · Jan 20, 2004

I played Savage for a couple weeks. Never really got into it very much and didnt have alot of fun. The idea is cool but the gameplay IMO wasnt there. It was the dynamics of the FPS element, it didnt move and react like HL or Quake.
Like Halo, its too GPU intensive for its graphics (though even more so in Savages case).

Daggerfall (prequel to Morrowind) I played addictively for months. I tried to get into Morrowind as I was waiting its arrival for years but it wasnt the same as it was with Daggerfall.
Much like WC3 just didnt seem like 'more and better' yet familiar enough than WC2 to get me into it.

I suppose your critisism of my Half Life/CS gameplay is valid.
I still prefer Starcraft to WC3, or CS to most modern shooters (other than COD).
My system can play all of them, and I own mostly every game. Its just not the same.

I was overly addicted to EQ for months and months, and still have the desire to play but fight it all the time as I dont want to pay for it and realize how much of a waste of time it is.

But really, everything is.
All life really consists of is little impulses that stimulate our brains and make it squeal with joy or sadness every once in a while.
If living in EQ makes you genuinely happy then who cares?
I found after about 6months of hardcore playing that I was no longer being entertained but more a slave to the system. I did it because I had invested so much time prior, or just had to do a "little more" to get the next carrot.

The key is realizing if it really is fun anymore and having the will to get away from games like that.
Games like EQ, NWN or a multi Morrowind are soooo much fun with friends.
More satisfying than any FPS I've played.
I was hoping for years while they were porting Halo that it would bring back co-op FPS (like the first Quake game had) but no. Thats part of the reason I couldnt bring myself to play through Microsofts castrated game.

----
Yeah, thats right. I support the NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil.

cleeve · Jan 20, 2004

More detail on that plz! I don't quiet fully get what you meant.

There are 2 versions of the 9800SE out there, wusy: a version with a 128 bit memory interface (a Radeon 9500 PRO type PCB), and a version with a 256 bit memory interface (a Radeon 9700 type PCB)

The version with the 128 bit memory interface sucks. It's basically a radeon 9500 non-pro. Most 9800SE's out there have the 128bit memory interface.

If you enable the pipelines on a 128bit 9800SE, it can perform like a real 9500 PRO, but enabling the pipelines has a 50% failure rate...

The version with the 256 bit memory interface sucks less, but it is still severely limited by 4 disabled pipelines. It's about as good as a radeon 9600 PRO. Only a few 9800SE's have a 256bit memory interaface, the Hercules 9800SE All-in-wonder is one of them.

If you enable the pipelines on a 256bit 9800SE, it can perform like a real 9800 non-pro, but enabling the pipelines has a 50% failure rate...

________________
Radeon 9500 PRO (hardmodded 9500, o/c 322/322)
AthlonXP 2600+ (o/c 2400+ w/143Mhz fsb)
3dMark03: 4,055

Vimp · Jan 20, 2004

The difference between the FX5900 and FX5900XT cards is almost non-existent from everything I've seen. The explanation for this has been that the FX5900XT cards, although they have slower ram then the normal 5900, they suposedly have better timing ram or something like that, so they end up performing almost identical. Also the difference between the cards memory speed is the FX5900XT having 700mhz while the FX5900 has 850mhz. Well according to the BFG site there card has the 850mhz ram meaning it obviously is not the FX5900XT card but actually the normal FX5900. This makes the $176 price tag a very good price. Infact thats cheaper then a FX5900XT card from any manufacturer and here this is the typically $220 range FX5900non-Ultra from any other manufacturer, for mere $176 from BFG.

TheGreatGrapeApe · Jan 20, 2004

Yeah I missed that I. I saw it among the SEs, and thought, well of course. But I followed the links to the actual sellers and it does appear to be the full thing.

Great deal then.

Oh, well off to uninstall my MOBO bios and install the CAT 4.10s. Pray for my safe return.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

TheGreatGrapeApe · Jan 20, 2004

I say he go to hell!

Whatever dude. I'm glad you like your card but you've obviously missed this issue from it's inception.

which I know 10X more than anyone else here,

That's a pretty brash statement, that I haven't seen backed up by much.

I said it before and I'm going to say it again, I'm a proud owner of a PowerColor 9800SE 256-bit owner and I will KILL anyone who dares to say anothing about 128-bit comparing to 256-bit 9800SEs.

Talk about an empty threat.

Seriously, LOOK over what people said, breath, then decide whether your really know why you're all hot and bothered.

Understand what my statement was about, with regards to naming schemes not telling the whole story.

And while you're at it, look at MY Sig.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

TheGreatGrapeApe · Jan 20, 2004

Seriously, it's not out of nowhere; IIRC I was probably the first person to talk about it in this forum, plus the first person to supply benchmarks, and the first person to supply info about the mod. I feel pretty secure in my ability/right to talk about it. I don't doubt you knowledge of the card, it may be near my knowledge of the R9600 series, but don't consider everyone completely ignorant of the facts.

In the future, breath, and think about who you're about to attack/overreact to. Ask yourself if there's really anything to ract to. If you look over the above I think you'll see that it's not just an over reaction, but I think you went out of your way to flare-up.

Remember, take a breath, think it over, then act.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

dhlucke · Jan 20, 2004

Chill

Seriously

_________________________________________
GOD BLESS AMERICA

dhlucke · Jan 20, 2004

Wusy has been here since he was 12 years old or so and sometimes he gets a little out of hand. He's a good kid.

_________________________________________
GOD BLESS AMERICA

phial · Jan 20, 2004

personally, id rather have a 9600pro over a 5700xt.

yes, shader performance will make that much of a difference.

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