Tom's Hardware: Topic Which graphic card to get?
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TheGreatGrapeApe
That's a little deceptive (by PW not you).
It's NOT an FX5900non-ultra as we know it (FX5900), it's an FX5900SE/LX/etc. Which is not the same. The R9700 will outperform the FX5900SE in almost every modern game/test.
If you look at BFG's site the card Misidentified by BFG and thus PriceWatch as an FX5900 is actually an FX5900SE, look at <A HREF="http://www.bfgtech.com/5900_redux.html" target="_new">their description on their site</A>. Their link calls it the FX5900_Redux.
Infact there is no true FX5900 on the site that is below $200, even the $205 MSI, and $207 Albatron card are likely the SE stype models (the Albatron EPV [se type]) is listed for $209 on the same page, although granted it is a vivo version.
While the SE/XT/LX is not an Ultra version it is not what has become known as a non-ultra as it is well below that level of the FX5900. But in this case it seems to be a lack of research by PriceWatch, and a tricky naming scheme by BFG (like Powercolor/Gigacube).
They also have Radeon 9700PROs for the price of a true FX5900 ($208),if those are true FX5900s at that price even. And R9700s for about the same price as those FX5900SEs ($193)
But and FX5900SE is not the same as a regular FX5900.
Friggin' naming/numbering schemes!
- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK 
Yes it is deceptive. But I wouldnt worry about it. The differences between the lines are slight.
They range from 400/700, 400/800, and 400/850 models.
If you can get the 800 or 850mhz ram, AWESOME. If you get the 700mhz model, merely GREAT.
They all have the same number of pipelines ect.
Just for the original posters information.. there is a 400/700 EVGA card on newegg for around 185 that is almost certain to hit 800mhz if that is important. [edit- with COD I must add]
Like the 9800NP to the Pro, the difference is relatively slight.
Just to keep things in perspective, a R9800Ps memory speed is 340Mhz (though performance may vary).
In that regard, 700mhz doesnt appear very low! What I'm saying to the purchaser is, dont worry about 100-150mhz when your 5900 is already at 700mhz for the mem. I wouldnt pay extra for it as you could probably just o/c most models.
The difference is small enough, I would save your money and get a 400/700 5900 with call of duty rather than get a 400/800 model without (and end up paying more).
Judging from the fact I'm the only one who suggested a 5900 in this thread... I have a feeling the heat might be coming on!
Theres my 2 frames worth 
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Yeah, thats right. I support the NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by kinney on 01/19/04 04:03 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
I think really, anything like the
FX5900SE/R9700/FX5900/R9700Pro/R9800/etc. will do very well by anyone, with only minor differences in most things, of course there will be some DX9 issues, but those games will be out by the time even better cards are out. If someone is looking for Numero Uno, then you have to wrestle with what that means, but for the average middle-level gamer any of those should do fine for now, even if I'd spend my money elsewhere.
My prefference would be in the order I listed (but from lesser to better for me), but they are all going to do OK for gaming in the near future and the main thing would be to research and figure out which one plays the games best for each individual or comes with the features one would want the most. COD doesn't interest me, but the Temp monitoring features do. But all of these are unatractive to me due to their power/heat characteristics.
But to each their own. The main thing is to be sure you're getting what you think you're supposed to. BFG appears to be the same as PC in that respect. Really wish the e-tailers were more thorough with their info.
- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by TheGreatGrapeApe on 01/19/04 03:53 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
I love office space 
My Rig:
AthlonXP 2000+ 1.677ghz
GeForce Verto FX5200 128mb DDR
Maxtor 7200RPM 80GB, Stock 40gb
Kingston 384MB DDR
Cendyne 52x24x52 CD-RW
Lite-On 4x DVD-RW
Go EMachines...
Yeah buyer beware, best policy.
R9800SE 128bit versus 256 bit is also a pile of BS IMO.
As for COD, yeah it's just not my game, not right now. Prefer HALO, but that's personal taste. If I had more time for gaming, then I would likley add it to my currently limited number of games I keep going on an ongoing basis. The Demo for Savage has caught my eye recently, but I think I will get bored of that rather quickly, but it is kinda fun.
Funny I used to play KQ during my IBM PC days.
However the only game that has my ongoing attention (other than the EA NHL series) is Morrowind. I would LOVE to see a multiplayer game with that kind of engine, but I have a feeling that even the next gen rigs couldn't handle the requirements of that very well yet. And over quirky ADSL and Cable with fluctuating ping rates would probably drive people nuts.
Of well COD demo was ok, I heard the multiplayer is good, but just no time for something that hasn't displaced Morrowind as #1, I'm even beginning to regret Halo due to my lack of playing time.
As for Sierra, still like them, I've played alot of their games over time (still have their 3D pinball on my desktop for many of my rigs). I think I won't care much about plot/storyline in D]|[ (Doom kind of games are raw bloodletting IMO), but HL2 will be definitely more abou the story, and future add-on stories. I just hope that they both offer worthy multiplayer and future exndability.
Oh well once again looking off way too far into the distance.
- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK
Yeah I missed that I. I saw it among the SEs, and thought, well of course. But I followed the links to the actual sellers and it does appear to be the full thing.
Great deal then.
Oh, well off to uninstall my MOBO bios and install the CAT 4.10s. Pray for my safe return. 
- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK
| Quote : I say he go to hell! |
Whatever dude. I'm glad you like your card but you've obviously missed this issue from it's inception.
| Quote : which I know 10X more than anyone else here, |
That's a pretty brash statement, that I haven't seen backed up by much.
| Quote : I said it before and I'm going to say it again, I'm a proud owner of a PowerColor 9800SE 256-bit owner and I will KILL anyone who dares to say anothing about 128-bit comparing to 256-bit 9800SEs. |
Talk about an empty threat.
Seriously, LOOK over what people said, breath, then decide whether your really know why you're all hot and bothered.
Understand what my statement was about, with regards to naming schemes not telling the whole story.
And while you're at it, look at MY Sig.
- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK
Seriously, it's not out of nowhere; IIRC I was probably the first person to talk about it in this forum, plus the first person to supply benchmarks, and the first person to supply info about the mod. I feel pretty secure in my ability/right to talk about it. I don't doubt you knowledge of the card, it may be near my knowledge of the R9600 series, but don't consider everyone completely ignorant of the facts.
In the future, breath, and think about who you're about to attack/<b>overreact</b> to. Ask yourself if there's really anything to ract to. If you look over the above I think you'll see that it's not just an over reaction, but I think you went out of your way to flare-up.
Remember, take a breath, think it over, then act.
- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK
Yeah, I know, that's why I mildly nudged him and said, 'Breath'.
I know when people are excited, and when they are crossing over to the dark side.
I do find it funny though when people are all wound up and you know it's all over nothing, heck I think we've all done that once or twice. Also it's funny considering the fury his 'softmod sale' caused.
A few links for you non-Canadians who haven't seen these yet.
This is the sort of thing I'm talking about;
<A HREF="http://www.hockeycanada.ca/e/develop/parentprograms/2003-04/downloads/potato_med_e.mov" target="_new">http://www.hockeycanada.ca/e/develop/parentprograms/2003-04/downloads/potato_med_e.mov</A>
<A HREF="http://www.hockeycanada.ca/e/develop/parentprograms/2003-04/downloads/hide_med.mov" target="_new">http://www.hockeycanada.ca/e/develop/parentprograms/2003-04/downloads/hide_med.mov</A>
<A HREF="http://www.hockeycanada.ca/e/develop/parentprograms/2003-04/downloads/pin_med.mov" target="_new">http://www.hockeycanada.ca/e/develop/parentprograms/2003-04/downloads/pin_med.mov</A>
Taken from here;
<A HREF="http://www.hockeycanada.ca/e/develop/parentprograms/2003-04/downloads.html" target="_new">http://www.hockeycanada.ca/e/develop/parentprograms/2003-04/downloads.html</A>
So in the end, RELAX it's just a forum.
Talk about hijacking a thread though, eh? Did jamisont every decide on a card?
- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK
I'd rather have a good R9600XT (w/ good memory).
Mmmm Thermal Sensors! Aaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh! 
- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK
Yeah if you are willing to wait a while there will be kickass new stuff, but it will not be cheap. Along with the top of the line you will see a new mid-level card, the RV380, that is supposed to have perfromance around the level of the R9800 (don't know if that's NP, Pro, or XT). Depending on pric point that may be a wise PCI-EX mid-level card for some. I might get it depending on the price of the R423 (I'm not paying four figures CDN for ANY card!), and the time frame.
The FX5600Ultra is OK (BTW, there are two kinds; a revision 1 [slower, not as good overclocker] and a revision 2[flipchip, better overclocker and much better straight out of the box]), but you likely would have done better with something like I have, the R9600Pro.
They can be had for the same price ~$130 as well. Even a PC R9600Pro would be a better card IMO. But the FX5600U should hold you over until the next cards arrive. Just don't expect it to perform to the same level of the rest of the cards. The FX5700, R9600, FX5900 and R9500/9700/9800 all perform at one level and the FX5600Ultra (both versions) usually trails fair enough behind not to be included in most modern benchies.
But you likely won't miss it to much if you're an early adopter of a next gen card in the next few months. Otherwise you might find some performance holes in your gameplay.
- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK
| Quote : personally, id rather have a 9600pro over a 5700xt.
|
<A HREF="http://neoseeker.com/resourcelink.html?rid=65684" target="_new">This reviewer doesnt favor the 5700 but regardless, the benchmarks speak loudest</A>
I realize those are 'older' games, though common.
Thats the plain jane 5700 also BTW, not the Ultra. About on par with the 9600 XT (you were mentioning the Pro).
The brute force shaders might come more into play as you said, later.
Depends what happens with DX9.1
I predict a big NV upswing, not only on their NV30 based stuff but NV40 will increase in DX9 and ATI wont have the edge in DX9.1 and beyond.
Basically once the ArtX technology is pushed to its extent (and assuming the curse of 3dfx really isnt upon NV ), the graphics market will return to what was happening in the TNT to GF4 years (while most of the time I was using a 3dfx).
Thats an incredibly biased statement but what I see as the truth.
We'll see. ATI has alot of pressure on them as well as NV to regain lost ground in current APIs.
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Yeah, thats right. I support the NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil.
I see your Review and Raise you an <A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTU5" target="_new">[H]</A>! 
<A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTU5" target="_new">http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTU5</A>
BTW, the reason the FX5700 does so well in your (Hexus's) review for things like X2 is because it is a VS2.0 test, no pixel shaders, and the FX5700 has 3 vertex engines.
In the ned the FX5700U and R9600XT will trade benchmarks from review to review.
As for DX9.1 and beyond, who knows. The smaller# x2 pipeline method of doing things may turn out to be superior than the larger# x1 method. And perhaps their experience with FP32 will benifit them more, but considering how little people understand the implicationsof the FX5700U's architecture right now, predicting the future potential of cards that have even been slapped together yet is a very iffy proposition. I just hope they are competitive, and more importantly, I hope they work, and offer tangible increases over the current offerings.
I bet what we'll really see is a divergence of superiority, whereas one card will rock one set/type of game/benchmark, and the other will struggle a bit, but then under a different type you will see the exact opposite. I would think regardless of what happens the potential that ATI will get their solution to market (and developers) first may help them to have some influence on early optimizations. Depends on if the release dates are significant enough, and if either architecture offers a significant benifit to developers then I think you will see them adopt that card as their darling, and grumble about making the other work at an equal level. But for sure they will both RUN games, one may offer a speed advantage and the other may offer features advantages, or those may go to just one card, where the choice would be made easier.
In any case, I want mine NOW!
- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK
| Quote : I see your Review and Raise you an [H]! |
LOL!
I did not realize that about no PS usage. Its a nice card, good to see it at least stand up to the mighty 9600XT.
Moot point though, I'm a 5900 fanboy.
Or stick with the trusty GF4. Those things are like the swiss army knife of cheap video.
I've seen that review in the past.
That damn Kyle. Actually I have been warming up to that site more and more over the others.
They are opinionated, and I like that.
Thats what I read someone ELSES review for. People get striving for unbiasedness in reviewing confused with strong (defined) opinion.
Hence the popularity of bland reviews.. grrrr.
You keep things nicely balanced around here Ape. You've gotten (seemingly) less biased over time.
Just a question, do you lean towards Canadian GPU makers? I noticed you like BOTH Matrox then ATI.
Nothing wrong with that at all, I'm a patriot personally. I drive General Motors cars (mine was actually put together in a Canadian plant), though it plays a role, nation of origin plays a role (albeit small) for me.
Goes in this order- USA, then North America, South America, Britain, Japan, EU, China.
I'm a big supporter of Canadian/USA/Mexican relations and dont discriminate much between those, we all need to prosper because we are neighbors. Whats good for us is good for you. Our politicians both combat each other though.
Kind of a touchy question/subject, but I'm not one to shy from nationalism like most spagetti-spined Americans.
Heres a joke I heard the other night in a game of *gasp* COUNTER STRIKE! That you might find offensive, and meant only in the most light hearted way I can possibly express online-
"How do you get a Canadian?"
"Drop a brick on an Englishman's head"
I'd personally rather it had been "Frenchman" than Englishman. Being a big supporter of Anglo-American foreign relations.
Seriously, you're getting closer in my book to being in the league of the almighty GW, and my honorary mention, Cleeve, for balanced views.
Hope that helps you breath easier.
I'm going to go drop some bodies in CS.
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Yeah, thats right. I support the NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil.
Group hug
<b>I help because you suck</b>
Well just on the way out the door at work when I saw this, I'll try and be brief....
<font color=blue>You keep things nicely balanced around here Ape. You've
gotten (seemingly) less biased over time. </font color=blue>
I try to keep it balanced at all times, but some things tick me off enough to make me more vocal about the drawbacks. This summer was a perfect example. Some of the early Spec vs Spec comparisons bothered me in the same way that the 256mb vs 128 mb does. And while I still say there's a hole in the nV way of doing things on the hardware side of things, their software guys are sure doing a much better job now (fire some cheaters? ) at making up for that shortcoming. The FX5600U still SUX imo, but ht eFX5700U is doing much better. I try and stick to the verifiable facts. The FX5900SE/XT IS a great deal at the same price and anyone who can't see that is blind. The main thing is to push hard when people F'up, and hopefully they will change their ways. I'm convinced that that is what happened with the FX5700U series. And hey, now we have XGI/Volari to pick on. I still hold a slight grudge for some of the summer stuff (because who knows it could come back with the next line; but then again it might be that ATI does that next tme around, either way it would really tick me off), but heck it didn't screw me, it just made it harder to show why there might be potential problems because of all the benchmark foolery. If you are trying to be objective about things, not having the tools to clearly point to, seee, this is why... just gets annoying, and causes people to give out what I would think would be bad advice (once again like recommending someone get an R9800SE [128 bit Wusy, calm down!] because it's obviously better than an R9600XT because the numbers are higher, if we took away the benchmarks how would you explain the difference convincingly to someone who doesn't understand VPU architecture?) that really bothered me because it made it harder to show what we were talking about, you see there's this issue.... and then someone would say, HAH look at these benchies, and then you had to go through all the 'floptimization' debate which usually went nowhere fast. Now the debate of R9600P versus FX5600U is a moot point, it's done, but back then it was harder to convince people without having some 'concrete' benchmark or IQ comparisons, despite what we all 'knew' to be the case.
I will be careful next round because of THAT past. The main thing is to stay current, things change quickly. I will cut ATI <i>SOME</i> slack, but let's be real, it's my money and I'm not waisting it, or else I'd have a Parhelia (I'm SERIOUS!, I was VERY TEMPTED!). Speaking of which...
<font color=blue>Just a question, do you lean towards Canadian GPU makers? I noticed you like BOTH Matrox then ATI.
Nothing wrong with that at all, I'm a patriot personally. I drive General Motors cars (mine was actually put together in a Canadian plant), though it plays a role, nation of origin plays a role (albeit small) for me.</font color=blue>
No not really, it's NICe, sure, just like it's nice that anything is made by the home crowd. But I've worked with MAtrox before, LOVED them, I used to work in TV while in University in Montreal, and I used them there too. Once you get hooked by the small things of 2D you notice it. I have always been an adiouphile and 'visualphile' if there is an equivalent. That's my love for MAtrox, pure sheer quality. ATI well it's nice that they're Canadian, but really they are just the ones I currently ownand have had great experience with. But if that were to change, I'm not about to screw myself for only patriotic reasons. Consider it about 5-10% of the equation, like if two equivalent products were $90 CDN for the non-local, and $100 for the local, ok, but only for similar performance. And by the same token a 5-10% difference in gaming might make my choice local, but my recommendations to others would be for the better performer for the dollar, which is the way I look at it. If the tables were turned now, and the locations were different, being Canadian wouldn't improve nV's image in my mind, to me it would have been something not to mention or draw attention to. That ATI is doing well is a reason I do draw attention to it, because most people thing we are Innu from coast to coast, hence my Occupation info in my profile here.
I do tend to support local, but my recommendations don't get involved in that because your integrity and respectability are compromised and soon worth nil, and then who cares what the CANboi thinks?
I prefer people to make their own minds up. I will provide info, and try to point out why I feel the way I do about a product, but in the end, I expect people to take it at face value.
As for jokes, they never bother me. Heck if you got the chance to wacth CBC on monday nights you would understand that Canadians themselves LOVE to make fun of our own countrymen and even ourselves. But we also love making fun of Americans, and others too. The funny thing is I find Americans find it harder to make fun of themselves and their leaders. I think the two party system makes it a question of us versus them, which translates into many other aspects of American debate/views/policy/interaction. Canadians laugh at their own leaders, but when people joke about Bush or Clinton, it seems that anyone who is a memeber of that party feels obliged to provide a comeback, instead of laughing with the rest of us. I never did get that.
Humour's never a problem it is what sometimes passes for patriotism at the expense of others that can be annoying. In the end when people cross that line it doesn't bother me because then I don't respect them, and who cares what they think?
Personally I love my country, like many people do, and of course I'll smack some sense into people that attack it, just like anyone would, but in the end nationalism can be very risky/dangerous when it turns in jingoism.
Enjoy CS, I have no problem with the game, to me like I said, I just would prefer that the companies spend their time making COD work, not an older game. But we've been there done that. I'm sure I'll be bitching about Morrowind in a year or two when people say, YOU still play THAT! But in reality, I think I will simply accept the fact tha it won't run well on future hardware and if I love it enough, then build a rig specifically for it. Either that or like I tell people "return your stuff and buy the gear that does work, regardless of who it's with, just all the while being aware that other stuff may be compromised". IT's just a pet peeve. PErsonally I'd rather ATI add surround gaming than make any older games work, or spend time fixing Rage chipset problems or even R7XXX/8500 problems (sorry Phial and others but that's my feeling sbaout it). I like new features and perhaps once I have a truely worthy card I'll settle into that, 'MMMmmm this is just right' phase and want my then setup to always be supported. It's like the Trackball and Trackpoint, I love them, but I see that they are minor markets. But my dollars will go in that direction regardless of better mice, faster solutions, etc., because I try to meet my needs, even if it goes against the grain.
Oie, I wanted to be out of her 15 mins ago. Oh well. Outtie!
- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK
LOL!
Hey! Watch where you put your hands!
- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK
<b>I help because you suck</b>
| Quote : Consider it about 5-10% of the equation, like if two equivalent products were $90 CDN for the non-local, and $100 for the local, ok, but only for similar performance |
Thats about how far I take it also. Just thought I'd ask, been on my mind for some time.
| Quote : If the tables were turned now, and the locations were different, being Canadian wouldn't improve nV's image in my mind, |
Same if the opposite were true for me. I've just used NV (for the most part other than my Rage chips, 9800s and Tv Wonder) since 3dfx died and I've had such good "luck" with them.
Great company. And I dont need the speed of either the 5900 nor 9800, so why not just go with what works with what I use it for.
No offense, but I dont trust ATIs long term support... and my only alternative to getting the GF4 that I got was a 8500.. I'll pass. Based on the support issues my friends still have with it. I dont upgrade much (try not too), another reason for fleabaying off the 9800s. I fear the future driver shape as they would age.
The image thing doesnt bother me. Its a company, just trying to make more money. If they werent like that (sometimes appearing shady), they'd end up being the ones bought out sooner rather than later. They all do it (not an excuse, its fact), its just the nature of the product.
Sacrificing IQ for performance is common. With CPUs its hard, either it works or it doesnt.. not many real ways to "cut corners" and rip the consumer.
Unless you fail to test it fully like the coe ratio failure of the Pentium 1 . I still have one of those BTW, and I'm not letting it go!
Hence an AMD cpu in my box (checking sig... yep still part of the Axis of Evil, they pass)!
| Quote : I do tend to support local, but my recommendations don't get involved in that because your integrity and respectability are compromised and soon worth nil, and then who cares what the CANboi thinks? |
Yeah, if its the dominant deciding factor. If thats the case, why bother arguing when not considering the actual stability, features or performance.
I do consider myself USAboi (rah! rah! rah!), or at least a moderately cute cheerleader.
Just might want to consider glancing away as I do my high kicks..
| Quote : The funny thing is I find Americans find it harder to make fun of themselves and their leaders. I think the two party system makes it a question of us versus them, which translates into many other aspects of American debate/views/policy/interaction. Canadians laugh at their own leaders, but when people joke about Bush or Clinton, it seems that anyone who is a memeber of that party feels obliged to provide a comeback, instead of laughing with the rest of us. I never did get that.
|
Thats because there are as many arrogant Americans as there are self-hating Americans.
The political boundries are so harshly drawn out it makes the topic nearly inappropriate in public life.
I speak out still, I enjoy a challenge.. and like hearing myself talk/type.
| Quote : e do, and of course I'll smack some sense into people that attack it, just like anyone would, but in the end nationalism can be very risky/dangerous when it turns in jingoism.
|
True, but no nations have lost the right to nationalism, even on a more extreme level besides Germany who took it too far.. and no longer have the right to traditional nationalism.
Hence their removal of their own history from public display (nazi symbols).
| Quote : Enjoy CS, I have no problem with the game |
I was just giving you crap.
| Quote : It's like the Trackball and Trackpoint, I love them |
Logitech MX500 all the way! If theres any mouse you switch too, let it be this one..
Enjoy your night, I'll be here doing laundry and school work.
Hopefully I'll be getting a new job soon and be able to afford some brain shrinking potions of my own.
BTW what do you guys drink up there?
I'm a Bud Light man, typical American I suppose. I enjoy all beers though. I had some homebrewed beer in the Amana colonies (local German settlement) and liked it alot. If they sold it in 30 packs for $15 you would be calling me john jingleheimer schmidt, as the song goes.
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Yeah, thats right. I support the NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil.
Kinney- MX700 
Beer is for drinking, whiskeys for getting drunk with 
............................................
Render times? You'll find me down the pub...
Beer, now that's a tough question. Canadians are probably more nationalistic about that than anything else.
Personally I like variety. Onje of the things I brought back with me from Ontario this Xmas was an Upper Canada Variety pack (Lager, Light, Dark Ale, Maple Brown, Rebellion, and Wheat).
I also prefer REDs/Amber Ales like Boreal Rousse my Fav. but only availible in Ontario and Quebec), Rickard's Red, Sleeman's Red (only availible in Que.), Black Amber Ale (from Big Rock Breweries), Cameron's Amber Ale (another great one).
I like Sleeman Cream Ale, John Labatt Classic Wheat, O'keefe Extra Old Stock, Alpine, McNally's Extra, WhartHog Cream Ale, Pils, Red Cap (picture of it in my THGC photos), Alexander Keith's, PLUS A few from N. Ontario when I'm at the cottage which are only availible up north (Northern, Superior, Red Maple Premium), and then the HEAVY Weigths from Quebec, RAFTMAN malt (still has sediment so it ferments in the bottle, Maudite (spicey 8%), Fin du Monde (a triple bock, kinda spicey, but not like Maudite 9%).
Imports; McEwan Scotch Ale (8.3%), Mort Subite, Guiness of course, Bass, Smithwick's (sp?), Fuller's ESB, Sol (Corona is for posers), Samuel Adam's Triple Bock (very expensive, pretty rare up here).
I also really like GOOD Ciders. StrongBow, ScrumpyJack, Okanogan Valley Pear, O.V. McIntosh. And when I head to the states I always pick up some Woodchuck, regular and dark, and some Rhinoceros Cider (my absolute favourite that I can get here). All time favourite Bulmer's from the tap in country Kerry Ireland (although good anywhere in Ireland really, but first place I had it on tap). Wish they sold it here (supposedly the same guys that make Strongbow.
Also I love brew-pubs that make their own. I love trying new beers. All time favorite was a Chocolate Raspberry Stout from the Rotterdam/Amsterdam in Toronto in the middle of winter in '91, it's now since closed the pub side, and is now just the Amsterdam brewery.
For the well at least it's not Budweiser (which is 5% in Canada and brewed by Labatt's)... Moosehead, Molson Canadian, Molson Dry, Molson ICE, Sleeman Lager/Steam, Kokanee Gold, Big Rock Traditional, Kold.
BTW, The Beer Store (used to be Brewers Retail) in Ontario has about 150 brands at every store, here in Alberta it's more like less than 50.
- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK
Port's for Drinking, Beer's for Quaffing, and Scotch is to clear my head for more.
- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK
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