9800 Pro a possibility now!

[Yangster]

Those of you who helped me with deciding whether to get a 5700U or 9600XT new that I was pretty tight on budget. Anyway, now, after reading reviews and talking to the guys in the CPU forum, I have been recommended the AMD 2500+ 333FSB as opposed to the Intel 2.6Ghz 800FSB.

This allows me to spend $500AUD on a graphics card!

Alright, before, I wasn't sure, because I'm not familiar with AMD's, and how well they overclock, perform etc. But that doesn't really matter now. Because, gaming is mostly dependant on graphics cards. Business applications can even work well on PIII's, so the 2500 once overclocked will have no problems!

Now, I have 4 options for GPU's (ATi means built by ATi). ATi 128MB 9700 Pro for $469, ATi 128MB 9800 Pro 501.60, Gigacube 128MB 9800 Pro Extreme for $555 (aren't they meant to be cheap?) and HIS 128Mb 9800 Pro vivo for $499.

This is a very exciting day for me. i never dreamed that I could get a 9800 Pro. If there is a flaw in my logic, or a reason why anyone thinks that I should stick with Pentium 2.6Ghz 800FSB and the 9600XT (2.5ns), please tell me at the thread in the CPU section.

Well, I actually didn't post just to gloat. I actually have a few questions. Out of those 4, which do you recommend? I am looking for good overclocking potential (so fast mem would be good), and good warranty. Which has faster mem and better warranty, ATi or HIS? I'm guessing ATi has better quality right? What about fan noise?

I know that all of those (3 of them anyway) are very good cards. But I would like to get the best out of those. So, I would really appreciate it if you could help at all. Thanks!

EDIT: I noticed that a lot of Geforce FX cards have higher core speeds and mem speeds, whilst the same buswidth and pipelines, than the 9800 Pro, yet the Radeon still beats them many of the time. I understood when comparing the 5700U to the 9600XT, because the XT had a faster core, but this has just got me stumped. Any reasons why? The comparisons would be similar with an AMD instead of Intel right?

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Yangster on 01/20/04 09:49 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[coolsquirtle]

do keep in mind overclock or no overclock. The P4 can kill 2500+ ANYDAY and twice on tuesdays, eyes closed with a plastic knife

RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy
never tried to go crazy when it comes to o/cing. THE rule of thumb: 5mhz at once plz

 

[Yangster]

Really? I thought the 2600+ was like the equivalent of a 2.6Ghz... Isn't it? Then, shouldn't the 2500+ be only slightly worse?

I'll give you my situation now. If I am to overclock a P4 800FSB, I will have to get faster RAM, 3700 in fact for the RAM to sync. That means, no Sound card.

So, I have 2 options. P4 2.6Ghz 800FSB, 3700 RAM, 5.1 with onboard CODEC, Gigacube 9600XT (2.5ns). Or, AMD 2500+ 333FSB, 3200 RAM, 5.1 with onboard APU, 9800 Pro.

Now, here's my logic. AMD's are meant to be better at games and business applications. Pentiums better at content creation (ie DivX encoding and 3D rendering). Now, I very rarely use content creation, but I play lots of games nd regularly use word processing etc... This means the P4's lose their edge as a whole, right?

Now, on top of that, word processing, watching DVD's and movies, using Windows, etc... Now that, that can survive with CPU's much crapper than a 2500. And when it comes to games, isn't it correct that GPU's affect the performance a lot more than the CPU?

So, wouldn't a 2500 with a 9800 Pro kick a P4 2.6 with a 9600XT's ass when it comes to games? Or is the P4 so much better than the AMD that it even out weighs the difference between the GPU's? Or is my above logic flawed?

Gee, I hope I didn't get my hopes up for nothing...

 

[pauldh]

My top 2 gaming rigs are an 865pe/P4 2.6C and a NF2/XP2500+. In gaming benchmarks with the same video card, the P4 is quicker for sure, but also cost me about $90 more than the XP2500+ and mobo. It's not a huge difference for gaming. Ram costs will be the same in either setup. Overclocking the XP2500+ to an XP3200+, then the AMD rig is faster. The P4/iS7 will overclock well too with the right ram.

Anyway, either rig is nice. I like the IS7/2.6C better, the board has more features and it is faster for video editing too. But the XP2500+ is fun for overclocking and also a smart choice. But if games are all you care about, I would definately say the XP2500+ with a radeon 9800 Pro is better for games than the P4 - 2.6c with a 9600XT. I'll let others answer your video card questions, just wanted to comment on the CPU choices as I have systems based on both cpu's you mentioned, and am happy with both systems. For example, In 3DMark2001se, the P4 system manages to be about 600 points ahead of the AMD(without overclocking) with a Ti4200 in each, or 700 points with a Radeon 9500 pro in each. Not a huge difference in that test.

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9500 Pro, Santa Cruz, Antec 1000AMG, TruePower 430watt

 

[pauldh]

About the sound card. The IS7 is a sweet mobo if you choose to go with one. I have built many gaming rigs on that board, but I have always put a Santa Cruz or Audigy 2 instead of the integrated sound. On my recommendation, A friend of mine built an IS7 rig and ended up having crappy sound from the IS7 integrated sound. There were hisses and noise heard over the speakers when he clicked his mouse; aweful sound issues. Turns out he isn't alone. He added an SBLive5.1 ($33 US) and all is well.

Anyway my point is if you go with the P4 2.6C, the IS7 is a great motherboard, but don't trust 100% that you can use the integrated sound. You may need a sound card, or just look into a different motherboard.

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9500 Pro, Santa Cruz, Antec 1000AMG, TruePower 430watt

 

[Yangster]

Actually, I care mostly about games, secondly about watching movies, thirdly about business applications. Video editing, is that like what you do with iMovie? No, I don't use it. So, would the 2500+ benefit me more?

 

[pauldh]

Yes, Like you said, the XP2500+ with a Radeon 9800 pro is going to be a better gaming rig than the P4 with a radeon 9600XT. If ever you need more CPU power for games (Doom3???) you should be able to overclock the XP2500+ well. They are multiplier locked now, but for me that would not have mattered as I was able to just set the fsb to 200 and get it to XP3200+ specs. Not all chips will do that though, and the faster overclocking will only happen if you find an unlocked chip. If you can afford the P4 2.6C and a radeon 9800 Pro... great! But if buying the P4 will make you skimp on the video card, then go with the XP2500+. For a gaming rig get the better video card (9800 pro) and then decide which system you can afford with the money you have left. Not sure how your pricing is compared to ours, but right now if I were starting over building a gaming rig I'd buy a radeon 9800 Pro. They were too overpriced still back when I built my rig.

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9500 Pro, Santa Cruz, Antec 1000AMG, TruePower 430watt

 

[pauldh]

Oh by the way, the P4 2.6C is still faster than the XP2600+ or even the 2700+/2800+ for the most part. And the XP2500+ overclocks better than the XP2600+. I'd say an XP2600+ is a little below a P4 2.4C. Depending on use of course. AMD's naming sceme no longer matches up to Intel once Intel introduced the 800 bus chips.

Sorry if i am discussing CPU's too much in the Graphics card forum. Thought I'd say that before getting yelled at.
Anyway, I'd be excited too if I could get a Radeon 9800 pro.

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9500 Pro, Santa Cruz, Antec 1000AMG, TruePower 430watt<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Pauldh on 01/20/04 11:35 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Crashman]

I like ViVo on occassion, I'd go with the HIS card.

XP3200+ is about as fast as a P4 2.8C XP2500+ overclocks to 3200+ speed easily. I doubt you'd appreciate more speed. On the other hand, you would apreciate the extra power of the 9800 Pro!

Now, the nForce APU is a major feature of the MCP-T southbridge available on the nForce2. I'd recommend the Abit NF7-S as the best value motherboard to include the nForce APU.

And that nForce APU is better than the SB Live 5.1. So you save money because you don't buy a soundcard. Of course the IS7 offers 5.1 sound, but doesn't have a digital sound processor like the NF7-S.

So it looks like the XP2500+ and an NF7-S with the 9800 Pro is a win-win combination for you.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[sirak]

I would say to get a PIV 2.4c and overclock it to 3ghz using the stock cooler, which it easily can do. Your system will fly. Having said that, I can see your point about affording a 9800pro if you get a 2500+. Still, it seems like a wimpy processor for such a brilliant gpu. The PIV 800fsbs are so nice.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

The XP2500+ will overclock very high as well, they are BOTH the respective overclocking babies.

<b>Yangster</b>, the R9800 + AMD is the right choice. No point in paying extra just for a minimal diff. in CPU.

I would suggest the HIS as well, I personally like them, and yes VIVO is very nice. And then the ATI R9800PRo after that.

That's my two cents worth.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK

 

[Vimp]

Can anyone tell me what the difference is between a Retail BBA 9800 Pro and an OEM BBA 9800 Pro? I see a fairly nice price difference but don't know what the retail comes with that the OEM does not aside from the box. Im told BBA cards have no game bundle so if not then what else is there that a retail version would include? Also what is HIS's and Saphire's warrenty like in comparison to ATI's?

 

[Yangster]

Alright, thanks a lot guys! About the 3200+ being only as good as the 2.8C... Is that overall? Considering that gaming has the most weight, then business, and almost never content creation, what would a 3200+ be like? Because the 3200+ sometimes beats the 3.2Ghz at gaming...

I see that if I OC the 2500+ to 200Mhz, it would be identical to the 3200+, just a little hotter . However, are my chances of reaching that good? What about with stock cooling? I heard that the heatsink and fan were really crappy, are they still like that?

Alright, last question about the CPU (Oh, BTW, someone asked. I can't afford both P4 and 9800 Pro. Well actually I can, but parents won't let me .). Anyways, I know the 2500 is quite a fair way behind the others (P4's), even in games. However, even if I don't overclock, you wouldn't really notice the difference right (keeping in mind I don't do content creation)? I mean, word processing, stuff like that... .5 seconds difference to load when you click it on the toolbar when 20 (yeah right) other word docs are running isn't gonna kill my parents or me right? Or is there a big difference in time? Like 5 seconds? Otherwise, according to my description, there wouldn't be anything that I usually use that would make the AMD noticeably slower right?

About the mobo, I haven't been able to find any Abit motherboards for AMD in the cheaper stores, which would mean it'd be pretty expensive. The cheapest store stopped stocking Asus A7N8X Deluxes for $170, replacing them with the E-Deluxes (with WiFi), but that's useless and $10 more expensive. I did find another Deluxe for $175 though.

I beg your pardon. I actually just checked with google, and
found the Abit for 159.00! Ha! However, it says v2.0, and I'm not sure if it's the same...

Also, it supports dual RAM. But, the FSB is only 400, whereas the RAM would be at 800... Which would be better for speed? Single RAM (1:1) or dual (1:2)? Pricing doesn't really matter. $1-2, maybe I could buy a cheeseburger.

Alright, onto the Graphics side of things. I don't really need vivo, I don't think. Reason being I don't even have a DVD player... So if anything, I'd be plugging the computer into my television! I did consider HIS, because it was a little cheaper, however everyone says ATi has better quality. On the other hand though, HIS is in Melbourne, whereas ATi in NSW... Hope AzzA can get it for me. I'll ask him after I've decided which one.

I haven't really looked as deeply for cheap prices as I did with the 9600XT, though that seemed a waste .

Anyway, I mainly want one that I can overclock well. I know that it's almost at its limits, so no big hopes, but I at least hope it'll exceed an unoverclocked 9800XT...

I do have another option. 9700 Pro. It has identical buswidth and pipelines, and not that far off. Although I could afford the 9800 Pro, if I could get the 9700 Pro overclocked to 9800 Pro or XT standard, and it'd last 2 years at least (1 year for 9600XT, but for such an expensive card, 2 years!), then I'd get the 9700 Pro. Unless of course the 9800 Pro has some cool but definitely useful feature the 9700 doesn't.

So, I need to find out about the memory speeds. ATi? HIS? Or even Gigacube? The Gigacube 9800 Pro Extreme costs $530, which came as a surprise. So I think its got a low mem timing. But then again, its already a good card... Why pay $30 more for a Gigacube?!

So, unless Gigacube's is really good, which has better mem out of the ATi and HIS? Hope they have better than 3.3, or I won't be able to overclock well. Not that it really matters heaps anyway. 9800 Pro is already the 2nd best Radeon card. Often better than nVidia's best too. Only slightly slower than the XT, but $200 cheaper!

Otherwise, what about the ATi 9700 Pro? What's its mem speed? Hopefully 2.8? Would I be able to get it to 9800Pro standards? What about if I overclocked the 9800 Pro, would that be a lot better than the 9700 Pro overclocked? Like how you can OC the 9600 Pro into an XT, but XT can go further?

I am so so so excited about this. Finally I am going to have a good graphics card. Finally!!! I currently have a 3 year old built in card. No idea what it's called since dad bought it. Really crappy, so I've take over buying computers . You know, the best cards my friends have is a Sparkle 256MB 5600 non ultra. 256! What a waste, and cheap mem. I am gonna have such a good laugh!

PS, I just found a HIS 128MB 9800 Pro TD (no vivo) for $450. That seems to be a really good choice. So unless I would benefit heaps from overclocking and ATi would overclock better. I mean, 9800 Pro is already so good slightly better overclocking isn't gonna make a helluva difference is it?

Otherwise, any quality reasons I should get the ATi? Oops, that came out wrong, not qualtiy reasons as in good reasons, but as in reasons about the quality? Also, according to THG, the HIS blocks a PCI slot... Do I need PCI slots?

The HIS is $50 cheaper, and also available in Melbourne. Saving me $15 freight, and also hassle during return. However, by getting an AMD, I wouldn't get Corsair 3700 RAM, or the 9600XT. And they were the only things AzzA could match! Gee, wish I could help him out by getting something from him at the same price... Hmm, doesn't seem likely unfortunately... Oh wait, idea! The Abit mobo is in some far place in Vic, about as far as AzzA... I'll see if he can get the mobo for me.

Alright, thanks guys and sorry for blabbing on for so long. As you can see, I'm a bit hyper from excitement and typing at 60 words a minute, too fast to think properly. Sorry. Anyway, I really appreciate your help. Thanks.

EDIT: Woah, I just had a look at my thread and it really is long. Really sorry about that. Anyway, I edited my post because I just had a really horrible thought. They still come with HL2 vouchers right? Someone please tell me they still come with HL2 vouchers?<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Yangster on 01/21/04 06:47 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Vimp]

wussy, I'm well aware the basic differences between retail and OEM seeing as I've told others the difference on many occasions. What I was asking was what are the specific things the BBA retail comes with as oppose to the OEM aside from the box. And since when does OEM have a reduced warrenty? I've never heard of that.

Yangster, There are two different HIS 9800 Pros. The one on Tom's site that takes up a PCI slot is the more expensive one from HIS called IceQ and isn't likly to be the one your seeing for the reduced price. However if it is the IceQ that you've found or you can find one, its probably one of the best overclockers among the different 9800 Pro cards due to the fan design. Also the IceQ is supposedly very quiet too.
Also I may be wrong but I don't think duel channel ram requires any faster then a 400mhz bus if you use 400mhz ram.

 

[pauldh]

Doesn't the BB ATI retail have a 3 year warranty and most oem BB ATI's are offered with 1 year? I thought the contents of what you get in the 9800 Pro is the same oem or retail. Just longer warranty and a box.

I could be wrong on the warranty as maybe it depends where you buy the oem.

And no, HL2 is not packaged with the 9800 Pro, Just the 9600XT, 9800XT, AIW 9600 Pro.

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9500 Pro, Santa Cruz, Antec 1000AMG, TruePower 430watt

 

[Ion]

My 2500 stock cooling managed around 50C temp fairly easy, if you try overclock it i think it will add another 10C more.

Asus's audio unit is identical to Abit ones so not big worry here. (that v2.0 just means the revision number for the board, higher the number the new the board is)

I think you confusing P4's 800FSB with AMD's 400FSB. I hope you didn't get the idea from the saleperson that dual channel give 2x the memory speed!!! All dual channel does is simply merge 2 memory channels to double the memory bandwidth. However it makes very little difference on athlon board unless you running them higher than 200.(intel is another story)

Most 2500 will have no problem reaching 3200 level and beyond, provided your ram can handle it. The OC potential differ from one to another, same goes for graphic card. Take OC as the extra salt on the bread.

Lastly, where did you found Built By ATi cards? I've never seen one in Australia. :frown:

PS. P4 is more picky in term of ram selection, they perform better with better ram. However in Australia those PC 3700+ rated ram cost a fortune and not easy to find...

Asus A7N8X Deluxe, Xp 2500+(3200+), 512MB RAM, Radeon 9500Pro

 

[Crashman]

TOO MANY QUESTIONS!

OK, the A64 3200+ is often faster than the P4 3.2C. The XP3200+ is RARELY faster than the 3.2C, and overall better matched to the 2.8C in performance. The A64 gets its performance boost from the integrated memory controller, at a much higher price, with a much worse selection of boards.

So back to the XP3200+, the -Deluxe version of the Asus board has the same nForce APU, but probably (knowing Asus) fewer analog connections (if you need them).

Dual Channel helps the P4 a lot because of its Quad Data Rate CPU bus. It does little to help the XP's, but that's OK because they don't need that kind of bandwidth.

All these cards have Video Out, Video In on the HIS board is handy. My friend uses it for his analog camera. You can also connect a VCR to use as a tuner, getting tuner features through the VCR similar to what you'd get from a tuner card.

Checking with AzzA on the motherboard is a good idea, he just got one himself.

Oh, and version 2.0 simply means the board uses a newer version of the northbridge which officially supports 200MHz FSB. I never mentioned it before because Version 2.0 has been around so long that nearly all available boards are version 2.0, and version 2.0 is what you want anyway.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Yeah, like VIMP said the one that occupies two slots is the ICE q, and then you won't care about the PCI slot (heck you get a bunch of them) considering the better cooling solution.

The ICEQ is their top of the line, overclocks well, and is fairly quiet.

The regular HIS should be fine, and not take up an extra slot, and will likely be a good deal.

And yes I believe, based on the reviews I rememeber, that HIS is a 1 year warranty. ATI is a 3 year warranty. And I would say ATI warranty service is likely better, but being in OZ, heck I have no idea. I live in Canada and if need be could drive up to Thornhill and drop off my card during a visit to the Folks in Toronto. I would check with the local dist. to be sure.

Don't expect an ultra high OC for your CPU, but it is likely. Mainly push it slowly with that Retail cooler. The cooler is not GREAT but it should do you fine for a reasonable overclock. XP2700-2800 power should be relatively easy to hit.

As for the comparison, some games run better on AMd, some better on Intel. Some apps better on AMD, some on Intel. It has to do with their floating point strengths and extensions and such (well alot of things are involved, a list as long as my arm).

Hope that helps.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK

 

[Yangster]

I managed to find the ATi cards at http://www.arc.com.au/, and yes, they aren't usually available in Australia.

No, I don't think I'd be getting the IceQ. So, the HIS has 1 year warranty? Is that a bit too little for such an expensive GPU? I'll check with AzzA to see if he can get the ATi, else, I won't get the ATi. Too much hassle if it screws up, have to send it to Sydney, then America, then back to Sydney, then to me. And all that freight I have to pay!

Alright, I'm a bit confused about the CPU and RAM thing. Are P4's like quad channel RAM or do they send information 4 times per cycle?

XP2700-2800 only? So, my chances of reaching 3200 with stock cooling is low? What's the highest voltage I should go to with just air cooling?

This is something I'm really worried about. Changing the multiplier isn't meant to affect how much FSB you can get right? Yet these guys only managed to get to 170Mhz (4MHz greater than stock) with multiplier raised to 12.5. So, if I don't raise the multiplier, should I expect a crappy overclock like that too?

So, since the motherboard is so cheap, I would have around $10 left if I get the ATi (or HIS vivo) and $60 if I got the HIS (no vivo). That would give me some money to buy a rear case fan, and for the HIS, better CPU coolers, or another CD drive.

Should I buy new HS and fans? Or are the stock OK? I know a fair bit depends on luck, but I really want to pass the 3200+ (2.2Ghz) mark, since 3200+ is only as good as 2.8C, and I was previously hoping to overclock a 2.6Ghz to 3.2Ghz.

Out of the HIS (not IceQ) and ATi, which would you say is a better overclocker? Would a reasonable overclock let me exceed the stock 9800XT?

Oh, I almost forgot. A while back, someone said that the AMD might not keep up with the GPU... Would it? Let's say that I only manage to overclock it to XP2800. It would still run fairly fast for if I wanted to do word processing, watch DVD's & movies, and occasionally compile stuff (programs, etc...), right?

 

[pauldh]

Use the extra money and buy a nice Heatsink/fan. Bartons run cool so the AMD fan is pretty good, but if you want to aproach 2.2ghz (XP3200) speeds with a XP2500+, buy a nice heatsink. I especially like ones that you can adjust the RPM. My aero 7 is almost silent when I don't overclock, and keeps the cpu plenty cool when I crank up the rpm for overclocking. Also, I like Volcano 9's for the same reason but they are a little cheaper. Both are HUGE, and may not fit on every mobo. Tell the truth, I planned on overclocking all the time when i built the system. But I just love how quiet it is at stock speeds, and with a Ti4200 in it, I don't really see a need to overclock it while gaming.

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9500 Pro, Santa Cruz, Antec 1000AMG, TruePower 430watt

 

[Vimp]

I think your putting far to much emphasis on the cpu. On average you won't likly see any game or any other program run more then 5% faster with a P4 3.2ghz compared to a Athelon 2500+ 1.83ghz. And the videocard will diffenitly not be held back by a Athelon 2500+ by any means. Also if you overclock at all and it damages anything then you've voided your warrenty. I have an Athelon 2500+ and I don't intend to overclock it intill after the warrenty expires which is 3 years. Or intill I'm ready to upgrade anyways and don't care then if I damage it from OCing. I wouldn't suggest replacing the stock CPU fan though inless you really wanna overclock alot, and if your doing that you'd better hope you know what your doing.

Personnally I don't think overclocking is worth the risk. Your likly to only improve performance by maybe as much as 10-15% if you overclock everything significantly. Considering the risks of doing so I don't see the relatively small performance boost as being worth it inless money is not an issue at all.

 

[Yangster]

Wait, if you have a Ti4200 and don't need to overclock, amI going a bit overboard with the 9800 Pro?

Also, did you mean buy a good fan? Aren't heatsinks passive?

EDIT: I guess I'm having second thoughts now, after my initial high. How much would I benefit from getting a 9800 Pro instead of a 9600XT? I mean, how noticeable is AA and AF, and 80 FPS instead of 40? Worth $200 extra?

So you think the speed of the CPU really plays only a very small part in the speed difference of non games too? Then that's good. But am I over doing it with a 9800? It's almost as expensive as my LCD screen, and apart from the LCD, is the most expensive of the components. 1/4 of the total price actually...<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Yangster on 01/21/04 08:17 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Yangster]

Well, the Abit board has a CPU protection thing doesn't it? To stop the CPU overheating to levels that can damage it...

Oh, that reminds me. Do I have to clear the CMOS every time my FSB goes over?

 

[phial]

do keep in mind overclock or no overclock. The P4 can kill 2500+ ANYDAY and twice on tuesdays, eyes closed with a plastic knife

your so full of sh1t. people are asking advice because they are spending their hard earned money. keep that in mind fcktard


sure, if he is compressing Mp3's and decoding video at the same time, the P4 will be quite a bit faster


but hes obviously a gamer. and AXP foating point is as good if not better than the P4. in windows XP , a 2500+ is much more than enough to accelerate things. besides , theres a 97% chance that 2500+ will reach 3200+. yea, i know the P4 can overclock too , but look at the price difference

its half the price, with 90% the performance.. and they are damned near equal if gaming is your thing.

-------


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dhlucke - "Phew...ok my wrists are hurting. I'm taking a break."

 

[Ion]

I believe you can do 1.7-1.8 volt on air cooling, however it varies between different CPUs.

Yes, chaning multi actually affect the FSB you get because there is a limit where the CPU may run stable at. If the multi is too high, the CPU will crumble before you hit your FSB limit, also i bet some of those weak OC are the result of using DDR333 or even DDR266 rated RAM or the Mobo doesnt support higher FSB than 166. :tongue:

There is no point ask others about which brand to get, unless you decide the most important factor in a product. Do you need the top quality? ATi is better here mainly due to longer warranty, however i am not sure if you get 3 years in Australia. Are you going to use the video in feature to watch TV or use video camera on it? Then HIS vivo is the way to go. If you want to save a bit then the standard HIS is good. One thing about HIS card is that they usually use infineon memory which usually result in lower OC than the Samsung ones. My 9500 has the 3.3ns infineon and it wouldn't go anything more than 15mhz over the stock. :frown:

If you want to make sure you reach 3200 and beyond, get a new HSF. Cheap option will be Volcano 7+, althought it is kinda noisy, you can opt for a bit more and get the Vantec Aeroflow which makes a cool noise. :tongue: Just a reminder, if you went for P4 route, even with 3.2 OC the AMD combo still spanks its ass in game.

As for which brand will reach XT speed, i will place my bet on ATi because the likelyhood of better memory used. However you need to get the idea that OC is not something that the big boys want us to do, so take it as the extra salt on the bread.

Lastly, whoever said that AMD cpus couldnt keep up with graphic card is probably an Intel fanboy, tell them to use a P4 celeron and come back to express their opinion . For day to day application usage even 1G cpu can handle them, it is only when you run professional software or LARGE content creation then the extra power kicks in.

Asus A7N8X Deluxe, Xp 2500+(3200+), 512MB RAM, Radeon 9500Pro